The neighbors down the road.

[MadHound]

Another manifestation of disorder in our society is exemplified by my neighbors down the road. I live in a rural part of Mid Missouri. Our neighborhood is a mixture of people, part farmers, part people who simply like to live out in the country. It's a gravel road neighborhood, with houses on five acres or more. Most people have a pickup truck because they need it.

But one neighbor takes the cake. These people moved in early last year. They bought a five acre plot that had a trailer on it. They have a red domestic pickup. So far, so good.

Then I started seeing the Hummer in the neighborhood. A full sized H2, creeping down the road in the rain so as not to get road spatter all over the vehicle. I wondered who in the hell bought this monstrosity, impractical as it is for this neck of the woods. Then I saw it, parked next the trailer, wider than the trailer, almost as tall as their trailer, and a little over half as long as the trailer.

I had to shake my head and laugh, really. Such status concious people, thinking that they'll impress the locals with a huge Hummer. Yet really they've become the laughingstock of the neighborhood, driving a vehicle that is almost as big as their home, and that costs more than their home, yet is impractical as all get out here in the country.

Yet really it is sad too, a sign of how our society is slipping. My neighbors, and people like them all over the country are buying these vehicles to fulfill some sort of emotional or spiritual need, certainly not to fulfill a practical need. What have we, as a society, lost that pushes certain parts of the populace to finding their solace in a large vehicle? This is no better than some co-workers I used to have who lived in suburbia, yet felt they needed a one-ton duelly diesel p/u truck that was spotlessly clean all the time, never used for any practical work, and were just glorified commuter cars.

I think that over the previous years and decades our society has been horribly influenced by the media and the admen. Since our economy now runs(and has for the past twenty years) on ever increasing consumption, rather than manufacturing and such, our society has been increasingly brainwashed into buying things that aren't practical, but rather are vanity purchases. The media and admen have created these spiritual voids in people that most think can only be filled by getting more and better things rather than the traditional spiritual or intellectual solutions. Yet even though that Hummer is huge, it isn't large enough to fill that void, and soon my neighbors, and those millions like them, will feel the call to buy more, more, more.

We really need to break out of this mindset. That might be the silver lining in this upcoming economic crash, that since people will be unable to buy more stuff, they will be forced to fill that void within themselves in more traditional, and ultimately more satisfying ways, either through spiritualism or intellectualism.

I certainly hope so, because really, I don't need to see anymore travesties, like a Hummer parked next to a trailer.

Peace, and Happy New Year.

[Champion Jack]

1. Check out "the Story of Stuff"

http://www.storyofstuff.com --talks about our out of control consumerism

[MadHound]

3. Looks interesting,

But it also looks like they have come to a lot of the same conclusions that I've come to through other means.

This out of control consumerism has been deliberately foisted upon us by corporations, all to make a buck. Since NAFTA and other "free" trade agreements have stripped our country of our manufacturing sector, consumers and the financial sector are the engines driving our economy. Which is why we've seen more and more consumer credit, ARMs, and other such insanity. It is also why we're teetering on this cliff edge, about to go over. Sure, this unholy combination made a few people very rich, but it is killing the rest of us.

My hope is that all of this crap from China will bring back manufacturing to these shores, but sadly, I doubt that it will happen. Instead we're going to continue to mortgage the farm for a handful of magic beans, and before you know it, Saudi Arabia, China and Japan will own this country lock, stock and barrel.

[Elspeth]

59. Wish I could recommend your post--what a great presentation

Thanks for posting it

[Freedomofspeech]

2. So typical of the ignorance and stupidity....

of so many people in this country. When you travel to other countries, you see how simply they live. They certainly do not have all of the "stuff" we Americans seem to need. Thanks for a great post this morning, and Happy New Year 2008. Hey, it's the end of the bush era.

[Skittles]

85. thing is though

if they could, they would - that is the truly sad thing

[EFerrari]

4. It's surprising to hear people are still doing this.

Most people I know are cutting back on everything they can, and that's everyone, no matter their income or assets.

I thought the days of going to a mall and spending out of boredom were over. :shrug:

[MadHound]

5. Oh no, some people are still going full speed ahead as they crash into the wall.

I've seen lots of evidence that people are indeed cutting back. But here in the Midwest the housing bubble didn't effect us nearly as bad as others(though it has been plenty bad enough). However this lack of total collapse has let some continue the polite fantasy that all is well with the world, and you can spend, spend, spend. I've seen this happen with some other neighbors, who bought their home with an ARM, bought a new truck, four ATVs, and basically constructed a house of credit. It all collapsed earlier this year, and they were forced to move as their house was foreclosed upon.

Hell, one of my cousins did basically the same thing, forced to move in with my aunt, and yet she and her husband still don't get it and are continuing to spend like crazy.

I simply don't get this frenzy for spending. I've always been uncomfortable without having something saved up, if for no other reason than an "oh shit" fund. And other than a traditional mortgage, or a business loan, I stay away from the credit market. Sure, I don't have the latest or greatest, but it all works fine and it is all paid for.

I guess I successfully resisted the brainwashing:shrug:

[KharmaTrain]

9. They Keep The Status Despite The Downsizing

We had a family in our neighborhood...the husband lost his job, the wife only worked part-time at Wally World...and they had 2 kids in elementary school. They've tried to sell their house (no mention where they'd go), but even with a couple of price reductions...no takers. In the meantime their mortgage payments go up on less money coming in (he's closing in on the end of his unemployment elligibility). No matter, they still both drive these huge mini-vans...gas hogs and a lot more expensive to insure that a smaller car. He also goes golfing all the time (moreson now that he's not working) and keeps his membership in the club despite the expense...he claims this is helping him "network". You can just tell these are well-intentioned folk, but totally self-absorbed to the point of looking absurd to others.

Happy New Years...

:hi:

[EFerrari]

12. Happy New Years, KharmaTrain.

Those poor people. What a terrible weight that must be.

[LiberalFighter]

6. So they aren't selling drugs?

And need the Hummer to make themselves look strong?

[MadHound]

8. No, I don't think that they're selling drugs

Though they have certainly drank the spiked Kool-Aid. No, these are run of the mill middle age folks. I just think that they're trying to overawe the locals by having such a huge vehicle. Really rather sad, since we all laugh at their pretensions.

[Hoof Hearted]

89. The only drug dealers I've ever known were middle aged and very

"regular" types. I was shocked when I found out. I've never been a consumer myself so I'm no authority on the subject of dealers, but I there it is. Middle aged regular type folks can definitely be drug dealers.

[southerncrone]

104. And they probably have it leased. An even more expensive way to get into a vehicle.

Watch & see if it disappears at the end of a month, or after 3 yrs.

[TreasonousBastard]

7. Yeah, they're jerks, but don't blame the media...

because this has been going on long before the "media" existed.

We know it was true in Rome and it was probably true of the cavemen when they fought over the nicest cave, and each man wanted the biggest club and each woman the prettiest bone in her hair.

The pressure isn't from Madison Avenue to buy stuff, it's from our own peer groups, where we must keep up and usually try to be just a little bit better. At least in appearance.

I grew up in the 50s wher ewe were constantly exhorted not to keep up with the Joneses, but everybody kept up with them anyway. After years of the Depression and war rationing, people wanted to get stuff and look good again. Spending and travelling were the ultimate freedoms.

Easy credit was a natural evolution in business to keep this going. It started with store cards, then Diner's Club, and finally BankAmericard (which bccame Visa) showed us the way to unlimited credit for an unlimited
time.

NEVER use whatever evils business does to exhonerate our own blame in getting things to where they are. They persuaded us to buy, but didn't force us. In the end it was our choice.

[MadHound]

10. Oh I realize that they're responsible for their own stupidity, no doubt

But I honestly think that there has been an unholy collusion between retailers, the media and the financial sector to pump up that "keeping up with the Joneses" factor to record heights. Credit has become much easier, ads have emphasized the "neediness" factor, retailers have pushed more and more stuff that is over the top on the vanity scale.

I find that it is not a coincidence that this out of control consumerism is pumped up at a critical point in our history, when manufacturing slipped as the engine of our economy, and consumerism and the financial sector took over that role. That is what is making economists so nervous right now, the fact that the population is maxed out on credit and are buying less and less stuff since they can no longer afford it. If people stop buying, and stop using ever more inventive forms of credit, our economy collapses. I expect will see this happen in the next year or two.

Sure, I hear what you're saying, and yes these people are responsible for their decisions. But this mentality of "buy, buy, buy" has been hyped up beyond belief, and that is the responsibility of the both the financial and retail sector.

[TreasonousBastard]

20. Well, yeah, sorta, but...

this is a deeper problem than just pointing at "those" people making a buck. For one thing, a lot of "us" are depending on this sytem to make a living, too.

For as long as anyone can remember, economic growth has been considered a good thing, absolutely necessary to feed and house a growing population. Pseudo Marxists thought they could control this growth, but fucked it all up. Us capitalists, of admittedly varying degrees, pretty much have the only game left in town after any real socialists out there gave up a while ago.

So, we're left with a whole bunch of ple with all sorts of ideas and agendas growing our food and making our stuff and the "market" is driven by PR and advertising. We can try to place the blame on those nasty merchants of propaganda, but they are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. Eliminating them might be an attrractive idea, but no one sees that happening any time soon. So, it is still ultimately up to us to make our own decisions.

Pointing finger of blame has its uses, but often pointing fingers of scorn at people who move into doublewides nobody will see so they can afford a Hummer that everyone will see works too.

[NJCher]

24. I disagree

They persuaded us to buy, but didn't force us. In the end it was our choice.

The tactics used by advertisers are so psychologically sophisticated that it takes a very astute person to realize how they are being manipulated. The person acts but without full awareness of why they are doing so.

And car companies are the classic advertisers who take advantage of the most psychologically manipulative tactics.

I don't think most people have any comprehension of the depth to which this goes. This is a nation with the most developed mass marketers and salesmen to evolve (devolve?) in the history of the world. As the OP has pointed out with this sad example, it has resulted in very bizarre, anachronistic behavior.

We have a country that is blanketed with a mass media that is a 24/7 "feel bad" machine. I say "feel bad" because that is where advertisers find the point of vulnerability. If they can make you feel bad about yourself, that is your point where you break down and seek the psychological relief that a consumer product can provide (temporarily). The machine feeds off itself: advertisers, for example, present glamorous images of thin women, thus the front covers of magazines exploit these images by telling women they can lose 10 lbs in a week (if they buy the magazine). And so it goes in a regular cycle.

FWIW, I speak as a former Madison Avenue manipulator (read advertising manager, copywriter). I now teach a graduate course in advertising. I do not listen or watch any television/radio ads. I mute them--because I know how advertising works.



Cher

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Thanks for the reality check

and this works in other countries too

[HCE SuiGeneris]

66. Completely agree.

Those that disavow the power of media and advertising are blind to the perniciousness of its effect. An excellent post NJCher.

[Hoof Hearted]

92. You teach a graduate course on a subject you do not remain current in?

And apparently fear? I'm certain I would be unhappy to find myself paying for your instruction.

[NJCher]

101. back to reading comprehension class for you, buddy

Where in my post did I say I feared advertising?

Where in my post does it say I am not current in the field?



Cher

[MuseRider]

11. I can't imagine.

I have to have my pickup, I would be rid of it in two seconds if I did not need it out here. I went in to fill it up a few days ago and the pump stopped filling it at $100.00. How on earth does someone out in a rural area afford a Hummer that most likely does not even get half the mileage per gallon that I get? Wow.

[MadHound]

14. I shudder to think how these people are financing their Hummer

They're obviously not rich people, judging from their trailer and land selection. I imagine that they are like all too many others, financing their lifestyle on plastic and credit, not thinking about the consequences.

I have a small four banger pick-up myself that I use for my farm. The only time I use it for commuting is when there is a lot of snow on the ground requiring four wheel drive, or there are no other options. Other than that I generally commute using my scooter, which gets 100 mpg.

My next truck will be a diesel, and I will run it off of biodiesel that I make myself. Same for the other utilities that I need around here, such as the tractor and generator.

But this spectacle of my neighbors is outrageous. At least it provides gossip and comedy fodder for the rest of the neighborhood, we all laugh at the spectacle of this behemoth parked next to a trailer, shaking our heads at their stupidity and wonder who do they really think that they're fooling. What's sad is that this is the same sort of mindset that got our economy and society into the mess we're in now, a shame that apparently many people simply haven't learned the lesson.

[MuseRider]

17. We are talking

about putting in a tank and having bio diesel here for my truck and tractor and anything else we can use it in. I don't know about making it but I do know I can get it delivered for not a lot of money. Now that we are finally moved out here I drive little but my pickup is, for now, my only means of getting places unfortunately. It was an entire month that I was able to go on one tank of gas this last time. Usually I fill up twice a month but I used to have to fill up at least once a week. A tank would last a long time.

I see some of that around here, that attitude but they do not seem to last very long. Usually they are people who think having a farm would be cool. It does not take long to learn that cool is expensive to start and darned hard labor to maintain.

I don't know if it is worse having a Hummer parked outside of a trailer or outside of a MacMansion. Hummers just seem pretty ridiculous anywhere as regular transportation.

[TalkingDog]

77. Meth Lab

Laundering money with the high price goodies.



My Favorite Master Artist: Karen Parker GhostWoman Studios

[catmandu57]

13. I thought they were going to quit making those things

But I'm seeing new commercials for them, you can't watch a football game without being assaulted repeatedly by hummer ads of one kind or another. Either the ones that waste too damn much resources or the kind the little blue pill gives you.

One thing I've noticed and like is we're not getting credit card offers every other day in the mail, whether it's because we haven't responded to the thousands they've already sent or if credit is finally getting tight enough to quit this mass marketing I don't know, but, like I said I like not getting ten offers per week.

[MadHound]

15. No, sadly you can still get a Hummer

Though with the hike in gas prices and downturn in the economy I've noticed that they're pushing the smaller, cheaper, and dare I say, more fuel efficient H3 rather than the full sized H2 monstrosity.

I'm still getting CC offers, but I've never gotten many because I've never gotten a CC. Unfortunately they're still blanketing college students with these damn things, I see it on campus everyday. Worse, many students take them up on the offer and wind up graduating not just with a degree, but also with a hefty set of payments to the CC companies and for student loans. I imagine that our economy is going to feel the brunt of those decisions as graduates put off getting houses and such simply so they can pay off the debt acquired in college.

[DainBramaged]

23. No, sadly, EVERY manufacturer make s gas eating giant pig mobile

But you think that it's all the fault of the Hummer owners.


Even donkeys become jackasses. And we're supposed to be the party of inclusion.

[MadHound]

82. Yes, I realize that every manufacturer makes "gas eating giant pig mobile".

But quite frankly I find none more assinine than a Hummer. It is a poor off road vehicle, it is a poor hauling vehicle, it is a poor pulling vehicle, and frankly having one is one of the more ostentatious ways of spending your cash. At least my neighbors who have large SUVs use them for hauling horse trailers and such.

But I don't get why you're saying I think "that it's all the fault of the Hummer owners." I think no such thing, nor do I mention that anywhere. But hey, thanks for putting words in my mouth and reading my mind. . .poorly:eyes:

[CrispyQ]

19. We were watching a Fearless Planet marathon the other day on Discovery.

The shows are about all sorts of different environments on Earth -- the Sahara, the Great Barrier Reef, the Grand Canyon, the deep sea, Alaska, you get the idea. First they start with how the area evolved on a geologic scale (and yes, it covered a time period much greater than 6,000 years!) Toward the end of the episode they discussed the future of the area & every episode addressed global warming. It's affecting every sector of our planet. And every episode had at least 1-2 Hummer ads. :eyes:

[sharp_stick]

16. Big Truck, Tiny Other Part of the Body n/t

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shireen]

35. wee bit defensive, aren't you?

How can you compare the OP's beat-up old pickup, used when the snow is too deep for a car, with a brand new shiny Hummer?

The OP is pointing out the absurdity of owning a Hummer in the midst of a looming recession, high gas prices, and global warming. As his virtual DU neighbor, I'm laughing too.

My tiny brain and I are off to K & R this thread, in honor of you.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MadHound]

84. Oh, once in awhile you do. Like a couple of weeks ago when there was over an inch of ice

That was covered by eight inches of snow. Yeah, that's a pretty good time to have four wheel drive. Better yet is when I need to haul mulch, or dirt, or gravel, or any of the myriad of other things that a working farm needs. Interestingly enough, a Hummer either doesn't fulfill these practical needs, or does so very poorly.

And speaking of bashing, do you have a mirror?

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Canuckistanian]

61. It's a matter of practicality

I live in the country and don't drive a truck, but I sure wish I had one at times.

People who live in the country with large areas to maintain have FAR different hauling/tranportation needs than a city dweller.

Pickups are best - you can haul a lot of dirt, waste material, equipment and supplies using a pickup. A Hummer? Not so much.

I think that every country dweller should have two vehicles. One fuel-efficient small car for personal/long distance travel and a truck for heavy hauling and emergencies.

[sharp_stick]

76. But a hummer is the most useless POS ever made

by a US manufacturer. Terrible sight lines, nice paint, tiny windows, totally garbage. Off road to a hummer driver is accidently hitting a curb.

[MadHound]

83. You read much into very little, don't you?

First of all, my PU truck is a small four banger 4X4, one that I need to have around since I own a working orchard and such. You know, using a pickup truck for what it was originally intended to be, a farm/working vehicle. They folks with the Hummer are doing absolutely no such thing with their monster machine, instead they use it as their commuter vehicle.

Secondly, my commuter vehicle is a Bajaj scooter that gets 100mpg. If you're interested you can check out www.bajajusa.com for more info.

Third, you're making the claim that somehow, someway I'm exhibiting hate. Noooo, I am criticizing, thank you very much. That is a thing that happens a lot around here, people criticizing others. Hell, you're criticizing me right now. However the difference between how you criticize others and how I criticize others is that I base my criticism on facts and observations while you seemingly pull your criticism out of your ass, basing it on nothing more than thin air and conjecture.

Let me guess, you have a Hummer, right?:think:

[fishnfla]

18. I'm curious. Have you ever met and talked to these people?

or do you just cast judgement and talk behind their backs?

'cuz that kinda deceit is as old as the hills

[MadHound]

87. No, but I probably will meet them this summer at the annual fish fry

And I will get back to you and let you know why they own a Hummer. Trust me, I'm not bashful and I don't say anything about somebody I wouldn't tell straight to their face.

As far as criticizing their choice of vehicles, don't you think that it is about time that people started doing that? Perhaps a bit of peer pressure will put an end to the use of these useless vehicles that are taxing our resources and polluting our air. After all, we are all on this earth together, and the resources you squander, the air you pollute, well sorry, but that's mine, and other's air and resources, and it is high time that more people started living in less of a footprint. Otherwise we're all going to be in deep shit. Hell, how do you think we got in this mess we're in? Oh, yeah, five percent of the population using up over a quarter of the world's resources.

[DainBramaged]

21. I wonder how you would feel if it was a Toyota land Cruiser or Nissan Aramada

The hypocrisy over this is appalling. Because "some" people choose to live differently than you, they are fools and should be ostracized or worse.


What complete bullshit. judge not those who are nor perfect like you.

On edit

I certainly would not want to live anywhere close to you. I would have to be Jesus to get your approval to live.

[shireen]

39. they're just as bad, mpg comparable to Hummers

The SUVs you mention are not getting off easy, but Hummers have become the poster child because they look ridiculously excessive: big strong macho invincible, ideal for compensating for all sorts of other short-comings.

The issue the OP is trying to get across is FUEL EFFICIENCY of daily use vehicles!!! That is NOT bullshit!

Fuel economy info: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm

[DainBramaged]

46. Bullshit, the OP thinks he's better than they are because he doesn't drive vehicle X

[Unrepentant Fenian]

99. No

No, the original poster is merely making an observation on the need for some people to spend more on their car than they do on the house they live in. To me,it is a stupid waste of money and a very poor investment that leads me to wonder what the Hummer driver is compensating for. Your anger has me wondering too.

[MadMaddie]

58. The Hummer is not the story is it? The Hummer represents

how the American society has moved beyond practical and economical no matter what the cost.

Yes this is America and to each his own, if people want to spend their money on items they deem they need for their vanity or whatever that's fine.

The problem is that most Americans over the last 20 years have never known what it is to do without. Most Americans have never had to make the choice of putting food on the table or keeping the electricity on.

It's coming...most Americans are in for a rude awakening when they won't be able to use credit to dig themselves out of the red financial hole they got themselves into.

Finally, are you saying you have never gossipped about coworkers or neighbors even if to your family? Come on this is America and this is what Americans do....

[DainBramaged]

65. This is a hate thread. Gossip is hate. hate because the "neighbors' own X vehicle.

And we who post on DU have room to hate anyone. Like I said, A sewer.

[MadHound]

91. LOLOLOL! A hate thread! LOLOLOL!

Looks to me like you're the one doing the hating!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[DainBramaged]

95. Bite my ass

YOU are the one assuming your neighbors are scum, and you probably live in a double wide.


Hiding behind a blind profile. I guess it is thew anonymity of DU that gets your rocks off criticizing the neighbors. Why not take a ride on your scooter and tell them to their faces the Hummer sucks.

[MadHound]

105. LOLOLOL! You're so predictable

You can't rationally argue your way out of this, so you stoop to the personal attack, the ad hominem, the insult. I could alert on this, but instead I think I'll leave it up as an example of just what kind of person, and poster you are.

Oh, and just to satisfy your curiosity, I don't live in a double wide, though I've live in trailers before and found little wrong with them. It isn't the fact that they live in a trailer that I'm criticizing. Perhaps if you went back and reread my posts you would realize that. Also if you would read for comprehension you would realize that I never called these neighbors scum, that's more words you're putting in my mouth.

And I will meet them at some point, and no, I'll have no problem not only asking them about their Hummer, but also telling them what I think about it. At 6'5", I rarely fail to speak my mind to somebody's face.

But oh yeah, I forgot, you are coming from a completely biased viewpoint on this, since apparently your job involves large vehicles, that you're getting paid to produce gas guzzling, useless monstrosities like the Hummer. Never mind, your opinion if far from objective. But let me ask you this, how to you square your job, building useless monster vehicles, being part of the problem, with your own personal liberal beliefs. From the amount of hate and viciousness that you've spewed all over this thread, I think that you have some serious issues with this conflict and you're taking it out on others. Good luck with that:eyes:

[DainBramaged]

111. If you had bothered to read my journal, you'd know what I do for a living

But you wouldn't understand about journals, would you? At 6'5", I'm sure you tell all of your neighbors how they should act and live. You can spew all you want, but the whole basis for this thread is simply that you think that being the "bigger man" allows you to dictate who people should be and what they should do with their lives because they aren't in complete agreement with your philosophy. And you use the Hummer since your narrow viewpoint excludes all other vehicles due to your bias. Oh, and I'm SURE you aren't Union friendly either. It's obvious.

And THAT is pretty much exactly what the Freepers do.

Like I said, goodbye. There will be dozens more of these threads before DU dies, and that's a shame.

[MadHound]

90. Oh, I get it now! You have a vested interest in this matter

You either work, or have worked in the automotive industry, and your job is producing these behemoths. I get it now, I'm getting too close to your sacred cow.

Now I understand, you're POV on this is way too subjective, way to volatile on this matter, way too out of proportion to what I actually said all because your money, self image, livelihood is too caught up in this matter for you to be objective. That's OK then, now that I understand I will simply ignore your posts for the biased, over the top, out of proportion, out of line POSs that they are.

You have a vested interest in this and therefore can't be rational. Got it, thanks!

[CK_John]

22. IMO, the trailer is a temp and they will be putting up an Edwards type

mansion, this summer. Next fall they will be running for Town Supv as a Repug and get elected.

[zorahopkins]

26. In A Sense, Your Neighbors Are Victims

In a sense, your neighbors are victims of the constant, relentless propoganda that our corporatist oligarchs are always spewing.

Their message: "You are not happy until you BUY more. Buy, BUy, BUY!"

They make us think that we just have to have the latest, the newest, and the biggest.

When Widget 3.4 comes out, they make you feel unhappy that you still have Widget 3.3.

Some of us are better are realizing the pressure and resisting it.

But sadly, there are many people -- like your neighbors -- who succump to the propoganda.

They buy the stuff.

[DainBramaged]

27. Does that make them any less human than the pointer of dirty fingers

This thread is just more hate speech. It's like saying Hillary is scum, Gore lost because he was too nice, Bush is a religious man, it's pure bullshit.

[shireen]

36. you work for GM, maker of Hummers.

So I guess I should not be ranting about the lack of better fuel efficiency in new cars. Don't want to add to the profuse emissions of hate speech on DU.

[DainBramaged]

43. Toyota is suing to hold up the new CAFE standards

I guess that's ok with you. Oh and why not let the OP defend hisself about being holier than thou, or are you the same way?

[DainBramaged]

44. No one wants to answer the question, are you all better than them?

or just sanctimonious hypocrites?

[shireen]

73. we're sanctimonious hypocrites who worry about the future of our country and the rest of the planet

[DainBramaged]

74. Right, uh huh, you worry about the planet by fucking with people you don't like

[mwb970]

109. Jeez man, you're really stinking up this thread.

You have posted one obscene, mean-spirited insult after another, while complaining about "hate". You must be a real joy to live with! I am wondering, is there another board you could post on? You don't seem happy here.

[MadHound]

93. Better than these neighbors

:shrug:Define better?:shrug:

If by better do you mean do I use less resources and leave less of an imprint behind on the earth than these people? Sure, I believe I do since I grow much of my own food, use very efficient vehicles, am installing a wind turbine, making my own biodiesel, etc. Better morally or ethically:shrug: I don't know, but hey, this thread isn't about morals or ethics now is it?

By the by, what kind of resources are you using, what kind of footprint are you leaving behind on this world?

[treestar]

28. Part of it is our own fear for survival

Everyone has to make a living, so whatever you get a job in is going to be something you find "necessary." Whoever makes and sells Hummers figured out that there would be a market for this ego problem, but everyone who works there on a lower level job doesn't want to lose that job, and thus doesn't want to face up to the facts they aren't strictly necessary and would start fighting those who talk about them negatively. Even if they are manufactured in China, there must be someone here in higher-up jobs (otherwise we couldn't afford all the Chinese products).

When Clinton was cutting back on the military, those who worked in military towns thought they'd lose their business. It's a cycle based on the idea that you have to have a place in society, and the threat that it was be gone without a clearly visible replacement is intense. If you happen to work for a cigarette company, you don't want people to quit smoking, etc. That's the problem with our society. It too easily threatens to leave people out if what they are currently doing becomes obsolete. It shows no mercy. So whatever we are currently making a living from, we want it to be necessary indefinitely. Each item of consumer junk has a set of people behind it who make a living from it.

We need a better social safety net for people so they don't feel the necessity of continuing to make or sell unneeded junk.

[zorahopkins]

29. Fear Instilled In Us By Bush

You are absolutely correct.

And the fear of survival is instilled in us over and over again by Bush, Cheney, and the rest of the thugs.

The instill fear in us so that we will willingly give up our freedoms to them.

It has become so much of the political landscape that we sometimes don't recognize it for what it is.

Bush is pure evil. We need to see that he is impeached NOW! Or convicted later.

[earth mom]

30. As they say, you can't take it with you.

You know, my husband loves the H2. He's liberal though not as far left as me, lol. He's an "outdoorsman" and those cars strike a cord with guys who love the outdoors. He also loves the new 4 door Jeep wrangler.

I'm not defending the behavior in the OP with this post, because I'm constantly disgusted with how people feel they must keep up with the Joneses by wasting money on designer purses or McMansions because they've been SOLD that it's the thing they must do. It's been one of my pet peeves for the longest time.


But the thing is, is that we lost big time that Gore isn't running this year. IMO, Global Warming IS enough to get people to wake up and take notice and start changing their ways. :cry:

[NorthernSpy]

31. maybe they won it in a contest?

:shrug:

[barbtries]

32. very well put

n/t

[lpbk2713]

33. Do they have any bumper stickers on the monster Hummer?

I can only imagine the choices they could make. :shrug:

[shireen]

34. my (former) neighbor and I laugh at the SUVs

in our neighborhood (mostly townhouses). We live in a suburb just outside Baltimore City where roads get cleared very quickly after snowfalls. Unless it's a blinding blizzard, it's not even difficult to drive in snowy weather because salt trucks are out and about quite regularly. Yet, some people see the need for all-terrain vehicles to navigate our treacherous well-maintained asphalt roads (we don't even have potholes!). It's truly comical, yet a sad pathetic statement about some in our society.

[DainBramaged]

57. So everyone should drive the same car you do or approve of?

What country is this again?

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. I know that Hummers are seen as the worst things in the world

no, they are not a vehicle I'd look at... gas guzzler and for me fairly impractical

Hell 99% of Hummer Owners really don't need them.. but then again I'd say 90% of light truck owners don't need them either.

But... they do have some uses... especially the early models, because of military features built into the vehicle... again due to its original mission.

And for my money a hummer, especially an early model, since I doubt the H-3 has it, would be an asset in a flood for your average RESCUE squad.

Yes, due to MILITARY NEEDS they have some features that not even your truck has.

Hell, when they first came into the market we looked into one for all of ten seconds... price... for the RESCUE squad. After all it is a light truck.

But it's gas consumption is up there with the fire engines, and the price put it right out of any reasonable budget.

The point is, that even though they are hated round these parts... they do have some valid uses. Especially the early models that had all the features since they were essentially HUMVEES with some civilian features. And at times I wonder how Arnie's Hybrid is doing... two more MPG due to the weight?

As to what you said about your neighbors and consumption, let me give you an example with a fourteen year old and an I-POD. Family came to visit and fourteen year old wanted, and bought, a new I-POD. Her reason, her older 2 gig one, well it was full and she now needed to move music out of it and put new play lists in there. That was quite a hassle, so instead of keeping her two year old I-POD until it died (my view about electronics), she bought a new one. And her parents supported the decision. Now you could say since she is not living in the US, so our culture does not apply. Reason she's buying a piece of electronics she really does not need, but feels she needs, is peer pressure and parents that basically are also extreme consumers. And I know for a fact they don't have the funds to live their lifestyle. It is not only the US where you are seeing this... and it will continue until right after we crash.

[dysfunctional press]

41. like lots of people, my friend got his hummer almost for free- due to the tax code at the time.

but when the word "Hummer" appears, the mindless automotons around here are required to taunt and ridicule people they know absolutely nothing about for making purchases whose circumstances they also know nothing about. it really gets to be downright freeperific.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Well your friend should probably sell if

if nothing else, the maintenance and operation cost. We calculated just gas at over 1000 a month and this was a while ago.

But I agree with you... Hummers have become the poster child

Now on a more serious wonky question, ask yourself this... why did the gov'ment encourage the sale of vehicles such as the hummer or the Toyota Tundra? Many of the folks who got them could have done the same amount of work (yes I know he bought it for work) with smaller, more efficient vehicles? Here is where POLICY gets into the mix.. and how our gov'ment encourages certain behaviors.

[dysfunctional press]

70. actually, he's already sold it.

he had a client whose business went bankrupt, and stiffed him for 60K(a very long and ugly story of predatory banking).

he had to sell a few toys.

and ultimately, he said that he didn't like the ride for long trips.

[DainBramaged]

48. You speak trruth, and the autobots ignore it

DU has become as hatefuyl and mindless a place as Freeperville always was.

Start a thread singing the praises of the Peeus and you'll get a hundred "I love my Toyota" replies.


Hateful and wrong. But, that's DU 2008

[Warren Stupidity]

50. got his hummer almost for free? no he didn't.

He got to deduct the entire purchase price on his taxes that year. So he got his marginal tax rate off on his purchase price. So if he paid 60,000 for that hunk of junk he got back something like 20,000 off his taxes. Yes it was a stupid loophole, but it wasn't quite that stupid.

[DainBramaged]

52. It was 100% depreciation the first year on anything over 6000 lbs.

And it was originally supposed to benefit farmers and professionals. GM filled a need, just like Toyota, Nissan, and Chrysler did so you are wrong. And H2's weren't &60,000. The top list was $52,000 before discounts in 2003. Jesus more disinformation

[Warren Stupidity]

68. depreciation is a deduction not a credit. You get back your tax rate.

Even when the $100,000 was in effect for SUVs that was for a tax deduction. But don't take my word for it:

EFFECTS
These changes to the tax code, which were originally intended to spur capital investments by farmers and small businesses that rely on heavier vehicles, have made the purchase of heavy SUVs extremely lucrative for any small business owner, whether or not the vehicle is necessary in their work. It has raised the deduction cap to $100,000 for small businesses, while retaining all other aspects of the tax cut. This makes the purchase of at least 55 large SUVs, passenger vans, and trucks-all priced under $100,000-completely deductible in the first year.

As a result, Hummer sales, and SUV sales in general, have skyrocketed and this trend has continued with the passage of the Jobs and Growth Act.10 This has raised a number of important questions about the effect of this provision. For one, this is another tax break that primarily benefits the rich. Skip Barnett, who owns a hummer dealership in Atlanta, said that most of his buyers are small-business owners with incomes of over $200,000.11 The tax break has encouraged people from all lines of work, including real-estate agents, lawyers, consultants, and many others-for whom this provision was never intended-to purchase a luxury SUV instead of a luxury automobile, which is not eligible for the same deductions. Assuming that the average SUV buyer pays 35% on income taxes, and that the average SUV costs $40,000 (all of which is now deductible), this will cost the treasury an estimated $14,000 per taxpayer that takes the deduction, up from an average of $11,060 before the cap was increased to $100,000. For every 100,000 taxpayers that take advantage of this loophole, it will cost the treasury an estimated $1.4 billion!

http://www.taxpayer.net/TCS/whitepapers/SUVtaxbreak.htm

[dysfunctional press]

72. i don't know the ins & outs of the accounting...

but it was bought for his business, and versus getting a smaller vehicle, the "almost for free" was how he described it to me.

[RB TexLa]

56. They actually get better MPG than my SUV does

I'm getting around 9 mpg in city driving which is about 95% of my driving.

[Evergreen Emerald]

38. I was getting my car fixed at a local machanic when a guy in a Hummer

drove up to have some work done on it. It was evident to me that his Hummer was an attempt to compensate for lacking in other areas.

[DainBramaged]

49. It's evident that most in this thread are lacking in more than dick size

Grow up folks. These vehicles substituted as hate objects make you all look small.

[MadMaddie]

69. You know what? You want to talk about hate....? Let's talk about

hate...Gays being denied basic rights as Americans that's hate...The majority of the prison population in America is black...that's hate...

The US government not acknowledging the fact the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi citizens are dead for a war of choice that's hate...

The assasination of Mrs. Bhutto, Martin Luther King, JFK,RFK...that's hate...

You are saying that no one can say anything about consumerism and the overindulgence of Americans is considered hate...Wake up...

Maybe you have forgotten the last horrid 7 years....because we did not speak up loud enough, because we had to be the nice guys and follow the rules...we got the shit kicked out of us..

No it's not hate it's the truth and the truth sucks sometimes!

[DainBramaged]

71. It's hate because most here think it's OK to bash people for their choice

if it doesn't agree with them. It's no different than all the causes DU is supposed to stand for. Hating people because they drive a certain vehicle, what does that say about what we are??? no better than the haters who continue all the hate you mentioned.

[Evergreen Emerald]

80. they get three miles to the gallon. They represent all that Bush and his cohorts

stand for. That is why people are put down for owning one.

[Pavulon]

81. Read up..10 - 15

mpg. Like a chevy 2200 gas truck. Now, I would not own one , but have no problem driving sports cars that consume more gas than a prius or diesels that get better.

Not my neighbors freakin business.

A wrx sti subie gets about 16 observed..BAN IT, HATE on the subie owners.

You want 3. Buy this.

this goes in


this

[DainBramaged]

94. Dozens of fucking vehicles get 3 miles to the gallon

No one here hates BMW's or Mercedes, Audi's or fucking Japanese behemoths. Only GM Hummers.

Fucking sad ass snobs.

[Evergreen Emerald]

97. I take it you have one?

[Skittles]

86. come on

I hate materialistic assholes and that is LEGIT - THEY MAKE ME SICK

[lonestarnot]

45. or parked next to anything else for that matter!

[sandnsea]

47. Guitar Hero

Okay, it's fun, bla bla bla.

Why would you spend time on the game instead of actually learning how to play the guitar?

[DainBramaged]

53. And this is a recommended thread because the OP hates his neighbors????

DU is officially a sewer.

[IsItJustMe]

54. I have a relative that went over to Africa last summer to help. She told me that even though the

folks over there didn't have a pot to piss in, and many of them ate one meal a day (corn meal), that they were very warm, open hearted, and friendly.

I was telling this story to a neighbor the other day, who told me that I should thank god that I live in this country were material goods were abundant. I could not entirely disagree with that. But then my neighbor went on about how the folks in Africa, were only happy because they were to ignorant to know any better.

I found her statements very arrogant, and yet I feel that my neighbors opinions do reflect a majority of how Americans feel.

There is no doubt in my mind that materialism is at it's highest point ever in this country and that materialism will never touch the void that exists in all of us.

[proud2BlibKansan]

55. Do they have a meth lab too?

I am not kidding.

[Pavulon]

60. I like cars...

The hummer is not my type but what is is that people do not like? It is a scapegoat.

A subaru wrx sti gets 16mpg.

No one hates the BMW 7 series or M5.

E63 AMG 87,000 station wagon.


Now buying stuff you cant afford is bad, but because they are non traditional in how they spend is not a great judgement of how they structure their finances.

I know people with massive amounts of wealth who do not own homes.

[ecstatic]

62. Unless they won the H2, it sounds like the trailer is temporary

But you could always get to know them and find out? :shrug:

[tammywammy]

64. But why would they do that

When they can posts their disparaging thoughts on DU instead. :shrug:

[GreenPartyVoter]

63. A lot of folks who own trailers also own very nice vehicles. We can't afford a house so

might as well have a decent car, y'know?

[RebelOne]

110. True. I live in a mobile home park

and there are many very nice cars here. Most people in this park own their mobile homes with no mortgage payments, so they can afford higher car payments.

[w8liftinglady]

67. well,here's an opinion piece in my local paper

you think that mindset is dead?
http://www.thedailylight.com/articles/2007/12/27/opinion/doc476adf12f3fb9504272375.txt
Joe is right
Published: Friday, December 21, 2007 1:36 PM CST
The energy bill approved by Congress this week is long on “feel good” environmental provisions but falls substantially short when it comes to addressing our nation’s energy needs. On the House floor Tuesday, Congressman Joe Barton, R-Ennis, spoke against the bill, calling it a “recipe for recession.”

Joe is right.

While we encourage everyone to become more energy efficient, the legislation mandated in HR 6 does little but provide a false sense of environmental gain while mandating higher prices for everything from cars to homes and all aspects of our lives in between.

More importantly, Joe is right when he said this energy bill contains absolutely nothing that moves our nation closer to becoming self-reliant for our energy needs.

Let’s be honest with ourselves. We are a nation of consumers with an insatiable appetite for energy. How serious are we about saving energy? Just after dusk, drive through any town in America and each one is lit up like the Las Vegas strip. If we, as a nation, were truly serious about saving energy, we all would be driving a Honda Civic Hybrid or a Toyota Prius while reaping the benefits today of being able to achieve 40-plus mpg fuel economy. Why don’t we? Because we like our trucks and SUVs and our sports cars. To paraphrase President Bill Clinton, it’s the “free market” economy, stupid! In a free market, we have the freedom to buy what we want within our means.

For more than a decade, auto manufacturers have invested a great deal of resources into powertrain research and development. Voluntarily, each model year, manufacturers are producing vehicles that are more fuel efficient and environmentally friendly while also developing short- and long-term solutions to meet our transportation needs. Voluntarily, manufacturers have been improving Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards. It is possible that when the new regulations take affect 13 years from now, we all could be driving hydrogen powered fuel cell vehicles. Well, we could be, had Congress included more provisions to increase our domestic energy production — which will make hydrogen production more affordable for the consumer market.

What we, as Americans, really want is to lessen our dependency on foreign energy. Apparently, Congressman Barton, like the main character in Frank Capra’s 1939 film “Mr. Smith Goes To Washington,” is the only voice of common sense and reason in a city filled with hubris and charlatans.

Joe is right. We have an abundance of untapped energy within our borders that could, if Congress permitted, allow us to eliminate — or at minimum greatly reduce — our need to import crude and refined oil from an unstable region of the world that is hell bent on our destruction.

We have oil reservoirs waiting to be tapped off our Gulf shore and in Alaska that could meet our petroleum needs for the next 30-40 years. Combined with more nuclear power plants, an abundant supply of coal and new technology that makes its use more environmentally friendly, these resources will not only make us energy independent, but provide us time to develop the technology and implementation of alternative fuel sources — such as hydrogen.

And let’s talk about the ethanol mandates. Hasn’t anyone in Congress studied economics? Ethanol is a short-term, stop-gap energy measure — not a solution. Currently, it still costs more energy to produce ethanol than gain provided from the renewable plant-based fuel source. Additionally, where does Congress think ethanol comes from? It comes from our food supply. At one point, we will reach an economical tipping point, causing our food prices to rise substantially. If we think it’s rough paying $3 for a gallon of gas, how about $5 for a pound of hamburger? The feed used for the cattle that provides those steaks in grocery stores will be competing for the same grain going into our gas tanks. The law of supply and demand dictates that prices will rise.

Joe is right. In 2020 when the new regulations go into effect, we could be going online with new clean-burning coal and nuclear plants and we could be producing all of our petroleum needs domestically. Instead, thanks to this week’s energy bill, we get a warm fuzzy feeling that won’t last.

We can all agree that we should do more to protect the environment. We also should be more energy efficient. But in our free market economy, there’s little doubt that keeping the lights on and an affordable roof over our heads far outweighs a “no-energy” energy bill designed to make us feel good about ourselves. If we truly want to protect the environment, we can all become better stewards of the energy consumed in our homes and lives. If we want to continue to enjoy our American right to participate in the bountiful choices available to us in a truly free market economy, we should demand our government adopt measures that make us energy independent as quickly as possible.

And Joe is right. We can do both.

...and yes,the first comment is yours truly's.

[Raine]

75. Why not talk to them

and ask them about the vechicle, their views etc? You might find out they have a good reason for it and that you judged them without even knowing them (which lately seemed to be just as pronounced around here as it is in RW forums). x(

[DainBramaged]

96. Holier than thou, JUST because of the vehicle parked down the road

And God forbid those people criticize our little farmer here.


I keep telling my self I won't add people to my ignore list, but this thread irks the shit out of me.

DU at it's fucking Freeperish worst.:wtf:

[Unrepentant Fenian]

100. Hummmmmm......

I guess some people need a Hummer to hold their AR-15 collection and their SHTF bug out bags, don't they???

[Stephanie]

78. I muttered under my breath that a NYC Hummer was "ugly" the other day.

and the guy jumped out of the car and yelled at me! I guess I really got to him. He wanted to return the insult so he yelled, "get your roots touched up!" LOL! Just another rich asshole in Chelsea. It used to be a nice neighborhood.

[havocmom]

79. some get testy when their compensation device isn't met with awe?

Where have the grownups gone? ;)

[nonconformist]

88. It always amuses me when I see expensive cars, sometimes huge and more than one, parked by trailers

Around here, I see that quite a bit. And I mean really old, run down trailers with a Hummer, an Escalade and maybe an expensive ATV or two.

I mean seriously, WTF? Why on earth would someone spend more on a vehicle, which depreciates so fast, than on their home?

[Harper_is_Bush]

98. Maybe they bought it specifically to piss someone like you off. And it worked! n/t

[Xenotime]

102. Repossesions will follow foreclosures in the next credit crunch..

All a product of the * regime.

[kineneb]

103. maybe they plan to live in it instead of the trailer?

and for those frothing here, notice the OP remarked that the vehicle was completely impractical for the location. It would be no different than if they had showed up in a low-rider. Still impractical for country roads. (Hummers/low-riders/expensive sports cars are how we tell the tourists from the locals, along with the lack of dirt.)

I see people drive Hummers around here, and they take up the whole of our "two-lane" (really 1.5 lane) rural roads. And they are driven so carefully, whereas I charge down the road in my 7 year old Hyundai station wagon. Now I can understand having something with 4-wheel drive, given the unique "roads" that are around here; part of the local incorporated city has dirt roads, some of which require the 4-wheel drive to get to the driveway.

[mdmc]

106. HUMMER hasn't destroyed GMC yet?

:shrug:

[mwb970]

107. In America, bigger is always better.

Bigger yet is better yet, and even bigger is even better.

Hugely fat, obese Americans waddling to their immense Hummers and SUVs and driving home to their gigantic McMansions where they can kick back and watch their big-screen HDTV sets while sitting in overstuffed recliners, snarfing from Extra Jumbo Biggie-Big bags of Doritos.

It's crazy.

[cutlassmama]

112. I saw a commercial the other day leasing them for

$299.00 a month. Probably because they are gas guzzlers