Just one reason that I am voting for Clinton...

[liberalsoldier5]

<http://hillaryclinton.com/video/90.aspx>

It's moments like this ^ that just make her look so presidential, moreso than any of the other guys competing for the job. She is a patriot, she is a progressive, and she is very damn electable. I'm with Clinton/(probably)Bayh '08.

[YOY]

1. She's only "progressive" compared to what the Republicans have become

Actually, she's more of a right leaning moderate. She'd be an effective leader if elected but progressive...not so much. Patriot? How? "Patriot" is an overused jingoist word.

[Evergreen Emerald]

2. If you look at her record, she is liberal

not right leaning.

What a great message. She is awesome.

[YOY]

3. Not really

The political compass never lies:



http://www.politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2008

"Hillary Clinton is popularly perceived as a leftist in the United States while in any other western democracy her record is that of a moderate conservative."

And I've seen the cut and paste version of her record. I've also seen the version that shows the opposite.

She's be much more effective then anything the Pubs could ever roll out but "progressive"...no.

Incidentally, the Shrub is somewhere in between Huckabee and Guiliani if I recall correctly.

[Perry Logan]

6. You'd better talk to a lot of progressive organizations. They think she's pretty liberal.

The following are polls from progressive groups, rating Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, on how often they vote for progressive issues. For each group, http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011142.php

Clinton Vs. Barack Obama (progressivepunch)
Overall Progressive Score: 92% 90%
Aid to Less Advantaged People at Home and Abroad: 98% 97%
Corporate Subsidies 100% N/A
Education, Humanities and the Arts 88% 100%
Environment 92% 100%
Fair Taxation 97% 100%
Family Planning 88% 80%
Government Checks on Corporate Power 95% 97%
Healthcare 98% 94%
Housing 100% 100%
Human Rights & Civil Liberties 82% 77%
Justice for All: Civil and Criminal 94% 91%
Labor Rights 91% 91%
Making Government Work for Everyone, Not Just the Rich or Powerful 94% 90%
War and Peace 80% 86%

[rAVES]

10. 80% on war? without reading the rest.. I know they are bullshit.

[YOY]

11. It's Perry

Gotta let Perry be Perry...he likes to cut and paste the same thing over and over and over...not to discuss it or disseminate the information...but to repeat it constantly.

It's his bag...

[durrrty libby]

26. Which is exactly what you do. Let YOY be YOY.Ol cut n paster too

[YOY]

61. When did I cut and paste over-and-over last exactly?

n/t

[bryant69]

8. The political compas is just a tool, you know.

It wasn't brought down by Moses on stone tablets or anything.

The questions it asks and the way it answers them are determined by people like you and me; and in this case people who have a more European look at things. By European standards (and much of the rest of the world) we are pretty right wing as a whole.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[YOY]

9. Well aware of that....

I just laugh whenever FReeps call her a "liberal" or "progressive"...when she really only is in comparison to them. and the far right that has become our country.

Now, I DO like where she is on the Authoritarian vs. Libertarian slot. I tend to fall just left of the axis in what Tahitinut refered to as section 1.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[King Coal]

22. Calm down. I am completely tolerant, remember? I just get a kick out of things.

Don't get so mad. It's not my fault that things are the way they are. I didn't find the magic stones.
Don't worry, be happy.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[King Coal]

27. I tolerate, hence, I am tolerant. What is so hard to understand there, Bryant?

You are the one who is a bigot. You can't tolerate me for believing as I do. And that is the whole magic stone thing is silly. Why can't you tolerate me for believing that?

[bryant69]

32. Ah yes, but you see I don't follow you from thread to thread attacking you

for not believing as I do. I'm happy to employ a live and let live attitude and never engage you at all.

You, being a bigot, do follow me from thread to thread, attacking my beliefs on any thin pretext available. Hell sometimes you attack without any pretext at all.

Bryant

[King Coal]

39. That is your imagination. I do not "follow you from thread to thread".

You attack me for my beliefs. I have a right to my beliefs just as much as you do. Yet I tolerate you, and you can't reciprocate in any means other than childish name-calling. You need to look up the definition of bigot. I believe anyone who can believe hogwash, should defend it, or else, just be tolerated. What else can you do?
You know, Bryant, in all seriousness, you need to do some real investigation. You are too smart not too.

Calm down and change your underwear. Nobody likes a poopy pants. (Whoops, I think I need to take my own advice and knock off the name-calling). I take back the poopy pants crack.

[bryant69]

64. Who starts these sorts of conversations?

I can't think of a time when I've come onto a thread and posted a response to something you said refering to your bigotry. I don't do that. On the other hand you've popped up dozens of times it seems like referencing in a "subtle" way my Mormon faith. Several of these have been veiled suggestions that I'm a Romney Supporter, which is infuriating and libelous (particularly since I've made it clear that I don't support any Republican).

Also the difference between calling me a poopy pants and me calling you a bigoted piece of shit, is that calling you a bigoted piece of shit is accurate.

Bryant

[King Coal]

67. I don't do veiled suggestions. And I have thought nor tried to convey that you support a Romney.

People can be made to be very obtuse, if they lack the will to question dogma. An objective view of dssyour faith reveals it to be dogma. What makes you think I can't question your dogma? The reason, or one of the main reason, I tolerate you, is that it is so interesting to see a man, a smart man, such as yourself, be willing to question political creed, but will not question religious conviction. And you can't tolerate the fact that I seem to believe it is necessary. I tolerate and I am tolerant to wards you, I am neither bigoted, nor, a piece of shit. (Carbon maybe.) What is really making you mad, and what seems to make you believe you have the right to hold dogmatic beliefs, is that I caught you making a reference to Moses raising the ten commandants or his head, why in the basic belief of your dogma is this:

"The third member of the Godhead is the Holy Ghost. He is a distinct Person like the Father and the Son, but He is only a Spirit without a physical body. His role is to testify of the Father and the Son, to guide and comfort us in truth and righteousness, and to sanctify us. He touches our hearts with feelings of warmth, peace, and faith, allowing us to be comforted in times of grief and worry, and granting us realizations and confidence as we seek the truth. He gently teaches people about the divinity of Christ and the truthfulness of Christ’s gospel and Church. His influence can be felt when we read the scriptures, including the Bible and the Book of Mormon. He confirms the teachings set forth by holy prophets such as Noah, Abraham, Moses, Joseph Smith, and the current President of the Mormon Church, Gordon Hinkle."

Just trying to keep it real, Bryant.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[King Coal]

69. Filmsy? You don't get it.

You really don't get it. Have you ever read the Book of Mormon? I don't think you have. Again, you have proven who the bigot is. You can't tolerate me. If you can't tolerate me, don't respond to my posts. You really think you are something speacial. And you don't get it.

[bryant69]

70. I've read the Book of Mormon numerous times.

You sound like main stream Christians complaining about being persecuted because people aren't tolerant of their desire to persecute others.

But I do like the idea of not responding to your points; maybe I'll go back to simply reporting them.

Bryant

[King Coal]

71. Reporting for what? Discussion? I tolerate, I wish you would do the same.

Please don't make threats, just because you are intolerant of my beliefs.

[bryant69]

72. I would report you for harrassment. n/t

[King Coal]

78. Your annoyance is of your own making. I understand how you feel.

You are free to believe what you want. But, remember, so am I. And if Romney gets nominated there will be many of us who will say that we do not want a leader who pretends to believe the absurd foolishness that forces the LDS leadership has to continue to fabricate. (Look what we got with Reid.) And there will be a vast number of ex-mormons who will join in, with stories and examples that you are going to have to defend. You know, if you screw up, you only have to say you screwed up once, but if you lie, you have to keep lying and remember to whom and how you lied. It will take a lot of memory and energy.

Do you expect us to keep the Mormon dogma out of a debate if Mitt gets nominated? I know you can't believe this, but I'm on your side, Bryant. I would not be doing you any favors if I babied you.

Again, if Mitt gets nominated, we can't afford to ignore the truth.

[bryant69]

81. So any Mormon, regardless of his positions, should be unelectable?

Is that your contention? Or here's a simple question for you to avoid and not answer - "If a candidate arose, who agreed with you on political issues and who had a solid progressive record, but was also a Mormon, would you consider voting for him or her?"

If Romney gets the nomination I will find find plenty of criticisms of him without having to resort to attacking Mormonism in general.

Bryant

[King Coal]

83. Finally we can debate civilly.

So any Mormon, regardless of his positions, should be unelectable? Is that your contention?

No, I wouldn’t go that far, Bryant. Take Reid, for example. He joined LDS because his wife to be was a Mormon and he became a member in order to smooth the progress of his impending marriage. A lot of people do that. I have a cousin who did that very thing, and that is a story that you should hear, Bryant, but at another time. But a person who knows the real story, and continues to carry on the fabrications would never, ever, be acceptable in my opinion to be a leader of any kind. If they can lie about religion, then they have absolutely no ethical fabric in their soul to lead this country.

"If a candidate arose, who agreed with you on political issues and who had a solid progressive record, but was also a Mormon, would you consider voting for him or her?"

Sure I would. But, of course, that is never going to happen, unless the person is someone like you, who can put politics ahead of religion. True Mormons cannot do that by definition.

Now, a question for you, Bryant: Do you know how many people leave the church each year and how difficult it is for them to do so? I know so many, many Mormons in the places where I live and work. The majority of them are really fine, clean living, strongly family oriented, and hard-working honest people. This same majority hasn’t got a clue of the real history, or what is really going on in Salt Lake. There are also some really anti-American bastard Mormons who are clued in, and Romney is included in that group. I don’t know your history but I do know you live in Florida, and I make the presumptuous assumption that you are not clued in. You can’t be, and be as good a democrat as you obviously are.

I hope you don’t take this personally, but I also know it is hard for you not to take it that way. If you would like, I can recommend some very enlightening reading, if you are willing to pull off the blinders, and hoe the tough row.

Your friend,

King Coal

P.S.
Isn't this better that fighting? I think it is.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bryant69]

88. Basically if I stop being Mormon you'll be ok with me

I'm pretty sure the religious right would be ok with Gays if they would just stop being Gay. But nobody questions their bigotry.

Bryant

[King Coal]

89. That is quite the question. Loaded and rhetorical at the same time..

Bryant, you are ok with me now. Please look up these two words. (Unless you are just being stubborn and ornery and don't really need to.)

1. Tolerate
2. Bigot

You are trying to drum up support in your quest to entrap me as a bigot!
Transference is a neat trick, but in this case, unnecessary. Why are you so intent on framing be as a bigot? This is starting to make me sad. I have relatives who are Mormon (though the number of them is shrinking, which is part of the story I will tell you sometime). Do you think I don't tolerate members of my own family?

I know how rough going it is.

[bryant69]

90. I think you are a bigot because I have observed how you have treated me

One of your big problems here is that I remember our previous discussions - so this bullshit pretending to be understanding doesn't really fly - I assume this is another tactic in your own war against Mormons.

I have looked up those two words. I am tolerant and you are not.

Consider - my faith requires me to prosolyte - I am required to share the gospel with my neighbors. So I go around and mention it in passing - and my neighbor makes it clear that he's not interested in hearing what i have to say. At that point I have a couple of choices. I can continue harassing him with the good news my of my faith, going around again and again to pester him into accepting the truth. Or I can take him at his word and drop it, respecting his ability to make his own decisions.

I think the second option is clearly more tolerant. You obviously prefer the first option. I've made it clear that I am not interested in what you are selling, and yet you insist on preaching the good word of anti-Mormonism regardless.

It's also insulting and patronizing that you assume I can't possibly understand my faith because if I did I would reject it.

And of course I remember our previous encounters when you were, shall we say, not nearly this phony friendly.

Bryant

[King Coal]

93. Bryant, you are still quite snarky, but you have done well in reducing the name-calling.

Trust me, I have much bigger problems than what you remember or don’t remember, and I don’t have a war against Mormons. I tolerate Mormons as you admitted by contradicting your own statement. As far as this discussion goes, our biggest problem is that you can’t seem to remember the roots of this discussion. This was never about you, in the beginning, it was about Mitt Romney.

I made the statement about how I hoped Mitt got the nomination, because he could easily be beaten because of his belief in Mormonism. That is when you first began flaming me with the name-calling using words like “bigot”, “shit”, “fuck”, and other words that incite hate and discontent. And you have continued doing so right up through the deleted posts above. When your faith requires you to proselytize and your neighbors seem to be going for it, then it follows that you continue with spreading the gospel. It is neither option 1 nor option 2, because the neighbor wants to hear more. (BTW, you said the second option was more tolerant than the option 1, so option 1 must be somewhat tolerant, contracting what you have said before, about option 1. I’m certainly more tolerant than name-calling with the dirty, godless words you used subsequently.)

But anyway, getting back to Mitt, is he fit to lead a nation that must have oversight that puts a wall between church and state? And can we define a strategy concerning his Mormonism to create a landslide against him if he gets on the GOP ticket?

Consider #1: Will Mitt be able to lead effectively if he will always put Mormonism first?

Consider #2: What are these beliefs and how did they come into this world?

Consider #3: What is the “gospel” that you and many others are compelled to proselytize?

Consider #4: Let’s tell the story ala truth to power.

Finally Bryant, you never know what you may discover, if you allow your thinking to become dynamic, and open. Anyway, help us to understand the Gospel and you see it. I certainly won’t consider it harassment. I am very interested.

[bryant69]

94. You filthy liar - that's not how it happened at all.

And you know it. You want to just make up history? Jesus. Do you feel bad telling such transparent lies? DO I have to go dredge up our earlier conversation? You know I can.

Whatever, if you want to talk about Mitt, let's talk about Mitt. By the way in case you've forgotten my mention earlier in the conversation, I don't support Mitt Romney for President.

1. It doesn't matter, because Mitt is a corrupt Republican moron - whatever his belief in Mormonism. Guilliani manages to be just as bad as Mitt and maybe a little worse despite not being a Mormon; Huckabee too.

2. Opinions differ on where Mormon ideals come from; you believe, for example that they were made up by a corrupt conman. I do not believe that.

3. That is a longer subject than this post allows me to explain. And not one I'm interested in talking to you about - frankly I wouldn't mind if you went to hell. Unfortunately Mormon's don't actually believe in it.

4. This really isn't a question.

[King Coal]

95. That is exactly how it happened. Or did you just tell me you were a Mormon out of the blue.

#4 was not a meant to be a question, it was a point to consider.

You are in a snit! You are ashamed as well you should be. You are even lying about Mormonism. I know more about it than you do, that is obvious.

I think you may be beyond help. And how dare you call me a liar? How old are you anyway? Grow up and smell the coffee. You could be among friends, but you choose to be ashamed and wallow in a snit.

[durrrty libby]

5. Agreed. Her tone is just right.

[Andromeda]

52. Oh, pulleeez!

Hillary is a moderate progressive. She has a very liberal voting record. Go look it up if you don't believe me.

[YOY]

62. Look at the compass

and beg my indulgence...

[Hoof Hearted]

4. Clinton/Clark '08. I could go for that. n/t

[emilyg]

Oh Yes!!!

[Auntie Bush]

29. Now you're talking! n/t

[Hoof Hearted]

46. A pic of me and Wesley Clark in Ft. Dodge, IA.

[Auntie Bush]

55. Wow! Lucky you! Thanks for posting! n/t

[Andromeda]

53. Good combination!

Yeah!

[undeterred]

7. You're serious?

It's moments like this I think that things could actually get worse.

[liberalsoldier5]

38. And why the heck is that?

Because she is thanking the troops for their service? Most people appreciate such a gesture. It is why she will slice through the looming GOP smear storm like a hot knife through butter. It's why she will win.

[undeterred]

57. She's the worst our party has to offer right now.

[EOTE]

63. Oh come on now.

Did you HEAR that piano music? If that wasn't presidential, I don't know what is. Listen to Edwards or Obama thank the troops, they'd probably have a tuba, contra-basoon or some other non-presidential sounding instrument playing in the background. I think one thing is obvious this campaign season, we need to stop focusing on petty issues like voting records and focus more on campaign ads like this one.

[SoFlaJet]

12. The thing I've noticed from all these Hillary supporters

is the low post count-it's like they all joined up here at DU to try and convince us TRUE progressives that we should just fall in line by the shear volume of their propaganda alone. Well we ain't buying it-where were all of you the last 6 to 7 years while we were fighting the same people that Hillary votes with on matters of war? Oh yea I know-taking notes on how to try and win elections from the likes of Karl Rove...

[Evergreen Emerald]

15. True progressives?

I am a card carrying liberal and have been all of my adult life.

How dare you.

[TahitiNut]

40. "card carrying"???

How about a nice game of solitaire? :eyes:

[SoxFan]

19. Funny you should say this

http://www.bluehampshire.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=2700

Recently, we admins noticed this comment thread on a recommended diary, and the oddities it posed made us look a little deeper than we normally would.
As the comment thread revealed, users pinballwizard, elf, shley24, MTAY all registered in succession to recommend the diary. A further look by us revealed that:

* they had registered within minutes of each other, including another user a bit later, janbaby, who was not among the recommenders,
* the same IP address was used by all of them, and is registered to the Clinton campaign,
* two other recommenders, blues and kmeisje, also registered from the same IP address.

To be clear, and to reiterate what's stated in our Getting Started page: paid campaign staff are welcome in this community, but are asked to disclose their affiliation to a campaign, either through their signature line, a disclosure statement on a diary, or even in the choosing of a username. The fact that all the users mentioned above came from a Clinton campaign IP, but did not register with campaign email addresses, and avoided making comments or diaries, instead only recommending pro-Clinton diaries, strikes us as gaming the system and a form of "recommend astroturf." As a result, we have banned those accounts, and will do so again for undisclosed paid staffers of any campaign if need be.

[durrrty libby]

28. Gotta love the "Purity Brigade"

[Andromeda]

54. My post count is higher than yours, SFJ.

So that must make me the "true" progressive, huh?

You must have been too busy fighting Hillaryites to notice that you aren't so important.

[SoFlaJet]

75. yea and how long you been here?

I've been posting here under a different name when I started here-and had over a thousand posts under Oustemnow...just because I may not have as many posts as you means what? You're more of a progressive than I am?

[BooScout]

77. Sorry to burst your bubble....

But 1. Number of posts by a member means nada. I'll take quality over quantity any day of the week.

2. I'm a far left Liberal. A lot further left than most in the States and on even DU ....hell I'm so far left I live in a country with Socialized Medicine.

3. My post count is not a low one, neither is it a high one.........I'd call it a medium one. I post when I have something to say that contributes and frankly after seeing your OP on this subject, I generally post valid points not idiotic dribble.

4. I support Clinton above all the other Deomocrats currently in the field because I think she is the best for the job.

Obviously I don't agree with all of Clinton's views or some of the things she has done in the past. Can anyone say that about any candidate? That they agree with him or her on every thing? I seriously doubt it.

I'd really like to know what scares anti-Hillary people so much? And accusing Hillary supporters of not fighting against the war is a cowardly potshot at those on this forum who have stood shoulder to shoulder against Bush's war from way before it ever started.

[ThomWV]

13. My god, has it come to this? Appearance trumps experience - of which she has essentially none.

Did it ever occur to you that it might just be the makeup and the lights?

[NNN0LHI]

14. Come on now

You have got to admit this is some high quality professional looking stuff here.

And experience schmerience look at how much experience Bush had ... oh.

Don

[Skidmore]

79. Bet she's practicing looking looking "presidenshul' just like * did. I

mean that's part of the R playbook she's using, isn't it?

[BlueJac]

16. Progressive........come on, be serious.....

She is a moderate!

[Kucinich4America]

17. Hillary Clinton is a Liberal......

....in the Australian sense. Maybe that's why Murdoch likes her so much?

[EFerrari]

20. Clinton is liberal like my dog is a cat.

lol

[Swamp Rat]

24. LOL!

:spank:

[EFerrari]

33. OW! Ow ow ow!

lol

:hug:

[Kurovski]

37. Or like Madam Senator, appearing to be both if need be:

[Arugula Latte]

91. Ah, yes, Catdog, the perfect mascot for Hillary.

:thumbsup:

Dr. Doolittle's pushmepullyou works as well:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

25. It will be 2004 all over again.

She was for the war before she was against it. She's a flip-flopper. She can't decide whether she's a hawk or a dove.

That's how she'll be portrayed. I'm not saying she can't win, but it'll be harder than it needs to be.

And we'll lose a shitload of local races in Red and Purple states because of all the wingnuts she'll bring out to vote against her. You can take that to the bank.

[Individualist]

30. Hillary a progressive?

:rofl:

"For three decades, advocates of "centrism" have used their money to monopolize the Democratic message and leave the progressive base out in the cold, not spoken to. Since its founding in 1985, the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) has been leading this effort."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/glenn-w-smith/the-trouble-with-the-dlc_b_60210.html

[bvar22]

31. "Hillary is a Liberal"?????

Thats a HOOT!
It is also a Right Wing Talking Point.
(I thought catapulting Right Wing Talking Points was frowned on around here.)


Hillary is easily the most conservative/Corporate Financed Democratic candidate.

"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[HughBeaumont]

34. Progressive?

"You Got Another Think Coming!"

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GC01Df03.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/538674.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/593175.cms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBSLLIhUs
Hillary pushes for more h1-b visas and outsourcing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLNOSGM2jK4
Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgdrh2Bc95M
Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 2)

[Swamp Rat]

36. "Victim of Changes..."

Judas Priest - Victim of Changes Live:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXToYkkSg9M



"... once she was wonderful... once she was fine... but change has come over her body... changes... changeeees... VICTIM OF CHANGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

:D

[HughBeaumont]

42. Man, that photo is scary enough even before you greened her up!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Swamp Rat]

43. Sutherland!

HAHA! :D Love dat pic.

Here's a brand new one:

[OhioChick]

48. LOL...

:rofl:

[Kurovski]

65. Oh Lordy Lord...

:rofl: :rofl:

That's some fancy writing! I commend you.

[spanone]

35. you had me up to bayh......

[lastliberalintexas]

41. That was when I felt ill

What a way to make sure the Dem party goes the way of the Whigs.

[avenger64]

86. Glad someone else caught that ...

... we had a VP from Indiana once, didn't know potatos from potatoes.

[dysfunctional press]

44. she's not progressive, she's a corporatist whore, and i will NOT vote for her...

in ANY election, under ANY circumstance.

[Marr]

45. More slick marketing, more image. Too bad the substance is essentially Republican.

In what way would Hillary Clinton make a better Democratic candidate than the others? I've heard nothing on that yet. Well, I know why Sean Hannity prefers her, of course-- but I've yet to hear why Democrats to the left of... oh... Richard Nixon should want her.

[liberalsoldier5]

50. I don't see how the substance was "republican" in any way.

Bipartisan? Totally. Non-political? In a good way, yes. But "republican"? Only if thanking our troops is now a conservative thing, which it is NOT.

I sent it to a couple of my buddies who recently served. Most of them already think that all liberals hate them and were actually REFRESHED to see a video like this. Right-wing bullshit is so easy to dispell. Clinton did great.

[Marr]

56. You keep suggesting that liberals hate the troops.

It's very tiresome.

But yes, I find Hillary Clinton to be essentially a Republican. She can get away with calling herself a "moderate Democrat" in today's out-of-kilter political scene, where the GOP is essentially fascist, but that's not saying much.

The substance I refer to is Hillary Clinton the candidate, not her message in this video.

[liberalsoldier5]

73. I do no such thing.

I believe that all liberals have a great love for the troops, and those who openly do not ought to leave the Democratic Party. I've made no suggestions of the opposite.

A lot of the troops I know are actually liberal and just don't know it. The way they speak of more federal assistance for their parents/grandparents and their kids' schools- it ain't Republicans who are gonna help them! I tell them that they should read "Wake Up, You're Liberal", one of my favorites.

But back to Clinton: There is nobody in our party more electable right now who can whip the GOP in a national election better than her. And with Bill by her side we could be looking at a landslide in Nov '08. We'll see...

[Marr]

74. Of course you did-- by repeatedly asking if 'supporting the troops' is unacceptable here.

But putting that aside, Hillary Clinton is the only candidate that could *lose* to a Republican at this point. She'll bring out the disillusioned Republican base like nothing else could. Typically, I'd say that's fine-- but in this particular case, she's also the most corporatist candidate in the Democratic lineup.

Nominating Hillary Clinton would be risking everything for a chance to gain nothing. It doesn't make sense.

[EOTE]

76. Liberalsoldier5 said no such thing.

He said he was refreshed to see a message of support for the troops and his fellow soldiers appreciated it as well. I'm not a Hillary supporter, but I have absolutely no issue with this message. The poster was simply referring to the erroneous notion that many soldiers have regarding liberals, and how it can be changed.

[Oilwellian]

47. Sorry, I've had enough of the Clinton/Bush dynasties

When Bill said the other day that Hillary will send he and poppy on a mission around the world to rebuild business relationships, well, that was the last straw for me. They have no clue where the real world stands on the Bush crime family. Enough is enough. Bill helped cover up the crimes of Poppy just as Hillary would help cover up the crimes of the junior turd. It really is time for a change and Hillary ain't it. I WILL stay home on election day if she's nominated.

[cooolandrew]

49. It almost seems written in stone that she will be the next president maybe no bad thing really.

[Andromeda]

51. Looks like your thread has been hyjacked

by the Hillary-haters, liberal soldier5. Try to ignore them if you can because they are just a mild irritant, like a flea bite. When you get a group of them it's very annoying but the swelling doesn't last long.

I agree that Hillary is very electable and she has repeatedly stood up for the troups and I'm proud of her for that.

Here's to Hillary, 2008! :toast:

[HughBeaumont]

59. Stood up for the "troups" by voting for the IWR and giving Bewsh the green light on Iran.

In other words, favoring a decade-long conflict that cannot be won. All because she believes national security is more important that civil rights.

Wow. With allies like that, who needs enemies, right?

Oh yeah, it's not "HATRED". Please get over yourselves. Madam Windsock isn't worth "hate". Her positions range from vague and questionable to less-than-democratic. That's what we have the problem with.

[Raine]

58. "electable" ...

NO way! First of all this country will not elect a woman and if they did it sure wouldn't be the wife of Bill Clinton. Even worse is she will drag the whole party down with her and set any wins back for decades. Hillary is one of THE most hated women in America

[conspirator]

60. Yes, the CORPORATIONS and the ELITE usually pick (bribe) the candidate who

looks more presidential. In this case they don't even need to bribe because the clintons are already on their payroll.

[BulletproofLandshark]

66. I'm voting for Clinton too.

Chelsea in '16!

[RadioRaheem84]

80. no

Edwards is the man.

[lateo]

82. Never ever gonna vote for her.

[depakid]

84. She's about as progressive as Evan Bayh....

But of course, if the strategy is to put Indiana into play... along with Mississippi and Alabama, then it might makle sense.

[Kip Humphrey]

87. I will NEVER EVER vote for a NEO-LIBERAL, CORPORATE GLOBALIST!!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

92. I have stayed out of most of these Hillary threads but I just have to say

that this little Christmas video is downright offensive. If she really wanted the troops to come home she would have a plan to end the war. And she wouldn't support building that monstrosity of an embassy.