"Bhutto was corrupt, and I can understand why she would be killed"

[BushOut06]

I had to drive across town this morning, and was listening to some of the AM talk-shows. I'm used to hearing outrageous statements from right-wing fucktards, but this one really took the case. This one caller basically said that Bhutto was very corrupt (compared her to the Clintons), and then said that he could understand why the Pakistani intelligence agency ISI would have her assassinated. He actually supported Musharraf's heavy-handed actions, declaring a state of emergency, placing her under house arrest and then stating that we should have done that with Michael Moore in this country.

WTF - what's really scary is that I'm sure there are plenty of reich-wingers who share this sentiment!

[acmavm]

1. Well if you take that premise and follow it along the only path

that you could take...

[rfranklin]

2. Yes, they really admire the "strong man" who rules with iron fist...

And kills all those who object.

[ccpup]

3. until, of course, they're being ruled

with an iron fist -- whereas, before, it was just "undesirables" and "immigrants" -- and then they start screaming "democracy! democracy! democracy!"

Not exactly Profiles in Courage, are they?

[tbyg52]

12. Well, yeah - that's the root of the problem with BushCo et al

One set of rules for "us," one set for "them." I'm the one that's always screaming "It's the corporations, stupid!" but I'm not sure my first sentence isn't even closer to the root of our problems.

[maxsolomon]

4. don't be surprised when fascists applaud fascism

so what if she was corrupt? its a speeding ticket over there. you have to be corrupt to survive.

hell, if you consider the Clintons corrupt, JFK & RFK were "corrupt", too. that doesn't mean that their assasinations weren't crimes against democracy.

[cgrindley]

7. Well... JFK and RFK's assassinations were NOT crimes against democracy

but crimes against individuals, carried out by individuals. Your description only works if you foolishly, stupidly and perversely believe in some asinine and retarded conspiracy.

[maxsolomon]

11. then by extension, bhutto's assasination fits your description.

just a coincidence, then, that all these people were a threat to Power & were the targets of crazed, lone assassins. toss in MLK while we're at it.

and in the interests of internet peace, i'll let the insulting overkill regarding the kennedy assasinations go. i'm not sure everyone on DU will. perhaps you're aware it is a contentious topic?

[cgrindley]

20. Two points

even someone in a persistent vegetative state can tell that Bhutto's assassination was a politically motivated act.

A belief that the Kennedy assassinations were part of a politically-motivated conspiracy is a dumb and foolish thing. The assassinations are only a contentious issue in the minds of the uneducated or intellectually feeble.


I will be so glad when the last of the Kennedy conspiracy cranks dies off. Good riddance. No one actually believes that crap, you know.

[maxsolomon]

22. on your last point, you are wrong

apparently you don't spend much time here. or in america. or on the planet. unless you were ON the warren commission.

myself, i don't know what to believe regarding oswald (i was 2 months old when it happened). its not like i believe the warren commission is any more accurate than the 9/11 commission was.

and welcome to ignore.

[cgrindley]

29. You disbelieve the 9/11 commission?

please please please ignore me...

[TheWatcher]

39. I have no problem ignoring people who are willfully ignorant to a lie.

By all means, get back to your Feel-Good Matrix.

[cgrindley]

51. Okay okay okay there WAS a 9/11 conspiracy

a foreign government sponsored terrorist mastermind--a 6'7" middle eastern black sheep renegade millionaire living in a cave--hatched a plot to train secret suicide agents to hijack and fly commercial planes into the world's tallest buildings to wage religious holy war.

HOW MUCH MORE OF A CONSPIRACY DO YOU BLOCKHEADS NEED?

[tom_paine]

25. Actually, few people believe the Coincidence Theorists anymore on that topic.

Most people believe that the Warren Comission was full of shit.



Poppy replied that he just couldn't remember where he was the day of JFK's assassination to the 1978 House Select Committee on Assassinations, but I'm sure that was also just a coincidence.

After all, what kind of Crazy Liberal Moonbat remembers where they were on November 22, 1963, eh?

And, if you'll recall, Poppy Bush had that oddly tearful and out-of-place mention of "conspiracy theorists" regarding the Warren Comission at Jerry Ford's funeral.

But I am sure that the Kennedy, Kennedy and King assassinations directly leading to Nixon's election and the steadily increasing criminality of the Bushies since is just a coincidence.

Oh, one more coincidence to chew on. From those Crazy Moonbats at the BBC, who never met a conspiracy theory they didn't like and check facts like FOX "News", right?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml

No, there's nothing to see here. No dots to connect. Move along now, nothing to see here.

[cgrindley]

30. Just stop it

it's just plain embarrassing and dumb.

[TheWatcher]

40. I thought you were ignoring us.

What's embarrassing and dumb is those who have nothing to counter with but useless attacks like yours.

[cgrindley]

52. No. You all promised to put ME on IGNORE

Now do it.

[truth2power]

28. "stupidly foolishly perversely...

asinine retarded dumb uneducated intellectually feeble"...... <sigh>

I can't help but wonder why you have so much animus where the JFK assassination is concerned. It's possible to say, "I don't believe there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy because..."

[cgrindley]

31. arrghhhhh

No. That's like saying "I don't believe magical pixie unicorns engineered Noah's flood because..."

Refuting something as brazenly stupid as a kennedy conspiracy theory requires nothing short of scorn, spleen and a thesaurus opened to "stupid".

[TheWatcher]

45. And you have something else besides insults to back this up with?

I thought so.

[cgrindley]

53. Refuting a Kennedy assassination theory ONLY requires insults

why aren't you getting this?

[truth2power]

46. Brazenly stupid because you say so? I see...n/t

[TheWatcher]

44. It all comes down to one line of thinking.

"Stop making me look at things I don't want to see. Stop making me think critically. Can't you see I am perfectly fine living in my Rose-Tinted World where everything is explained and arranged in a way that i feel most comfortable with? Why are you rocking the boat? Anything that I don't want to believe or objectively consider is automatically insane, conspiracy, wackoism, looney fringe, moonbat stuff, and I won't hear of it. If it doesn't fit my paradigm, it automatically doesn't exist, got it?"

"I just want to feel good and feel powerful, and be comfortable that I know the truth as it was told to me. I don't need anything else. Now fuck off."

And sadly you can apply this line of thinking to just about anything that is going on in this country in the past and the present, that people just don't want to know or think about.

America may not be ABLE to change or embrace difficult truth.

They just can't be bothered.

[cgrindley]

54. Look

that sad, deranged loner shot kennedy.

that evil 6'7" renegade saudi arabian millionaire religious extremist terrorist mastermind plotted out 9/11

that sad, deranged loner shot Reagan

that crazy, deranged loner shot RFK

that drunken, redneck cracker shot MLK

a conspiracy of his own former colleagues shot Malcolm X

need I continue?

[truth2power]

57. Hmmm...perhaps I owe you an apology. I may have misunderstood..

You were being ironic with your original statement, yes??

[cgrindley]

58. What are you going on about?

There were no conspiracies with:

JFK
RFK
MLK
Ronald Reagan
Lennon


moderate but crazy conspiracies with:

Ford
Lincoln


sort of serious conspiracies with:

Malcolm X


real conspiracy with:

9/11--conspiracy by OBL that is.

[truth2power]

59. Never mind. We disagree. ok? n/t

[Flying Dream Blues]

60. Did Fox News put out a book with all that in it? Obviously

you are well-read and have done your research on these subjects. :sarcasm:

You seem awfully defensive for someone who is sure of his convictions.

[fascisthunter]

33. "No One Actually believes that crap"....LOL

EVERYONE I KNOW except for you and a tiny minority hangin' around here.

[cgrindley]

55. Says a lot for the people you know

really, a belief in a kennedy assassination conspiracy is a crank belief, irrational. There wasn't one, you know. Not only that, but he wasn't even a particularly good president or person. He was pretty fucking average when all is said and done. He was no Carter. No Truman. He wasn't even as good as Clinton. You boomers are just waxing nostalgic for some vanished mythical past that never really existed. It'll be awesome when the boomer generation is relegated to a footnote in an unread book.

[trotsky]

5. One of the best Simpsons quotes came when Sideshow Bob ran for mayor of Springfield.

"Because you need me, Springfield. Your guilty conscience may force you to vote Democratic, but deep down inside you secretly long for a cold-hearted Republican to lower taxes, brutalize criminals, and rule you like a king."

[cgrindley]

6. Well she WAS corrupt

She wasn't a saint. She was almost as corrupt as the current bunch of assholes. She only got off due to a deal with Musharraf.

She didn't deserve death, but she's no martyr. Just another dead corrupt politician in a fucked up and morally worthless country.

[treestar]

14. That's going a little far

Not everyone is any country is worthless. They had their struggles, we had ours, in different parts of the world in different conditions.

Entire countries aren't "morally worthless." They may have problems, and their problems may be more severe than those of the US or Canada or England, etc., but that doesn't make them worthless.

[RaleighNCDUer]

19. You do know that the charges of corruption came from Musharraf?

That the ISI provided the evidence?

We may never know the truth behind it - they control the media and the evidence. But if she was so terribly corrupt, why was she in exile instead of in prison?

Why does Don Seligman come to mind?

EDIT: Siegleman, not Seligman.

[cgrindley]

21. Just because someone is better than a military dictatorship

doesn't make them "good". Look at Aristide. Look at Corazon Aquino. Look at Castro (whom I love and admire, but still, the dude really *is* a dictator). Look at Daniel Ortega (version 1.0, not the current incarnation).

Being "better" than a military dictatorship doesn't always equal being good. The Shah of Iran was "better" than the resulting revolutionary Islamic state, but not by much. He was still a piece of shit.

[goodgd_yall]

41. The post you're replying to didn't say anything like that

Look at the source for the charges of corruption is the point of the post.

[cgrindley]

56. So... it didn't deserve a direct reply

even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

[shance]

36. How was she corrupt? Please don't simply toss a grenade without evidence to back up

what remains a totally baseless accusation.

Of course the Bush Administration and their colleagues will try and marginalize her courage and her commitment to the citizens and to the direction of the country could have taken with her. But they wish to destroy Pakistan so they can rebuild it, just like the Administration hopes to do here as well.

She is one of the great ones.

Frankly, I am deeply insulted by your ridiculously, simplistic statement.

[ellisonz]

48. The least of it:

Monday, 29 October 2007, 00:05 GMT
Foreign cases that could haunt Bhutto
By Richard Lawson
BBC News, London

One of the most advanced is in Switzerland, where in 2003 Geneva magistrate Daniel Devaud convicted Ms Bhutto of money-laundering.

In his judgment, he found she and her close associates received around $15m in kickbacks from Pakistani government contracts with SGS and Cotecna, two Swiss companies.

Mr Devaud sentenced Ms Bhutto and her husband Asif Zardari to 180 days in prison, ordering them to return $11.9m to the government of Pakistan.

"I certainly don't have any doubts about the judgments I handed down came after an investigation lasting several years, involving thousands of documents," he has told the BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7064052.stm

[DCKit]

8. Too bad the fantasy of living in a fascist state won't nearly equal the reality.

Wait until his phone is tapped, his ability to travel freely is curtailed, his family is trucked off to work camps - or worse. Them libruls'll be lookin' awful good then.

[lpbk2713]

9. RW Hatemonger Radio usually makes for good comic relief ....

... but sometimes it really does get scary.

[Marrah_G]

10. She was corrupt- but she didn't deserve death

[in_cog_ni_to]

13. I heard she had been hiding money in Swiss bank accounts when she was in power?

Were her funds ever seized? If she was so corrupt and the people know this, why did 52% of the country support her return to power? Did they not know she was corrupt? Or did they just not care because she was better than the dictator, Musharraf?

[Marrah_G]

16. You can google the specifics on her corruption

But why would they elect her?

Try this: Buddy Cianci- mayor of Providence- arrested and jailed for corruption- He gets out and is Re-Elected- He goes to jail AGAIN for corruption.

Probably more then half of Providence would still vote for him again.

People are strange creatures when it comes to voting.

[goodgd_yall]

43. The charges of corruption were made by political enemies

It's hard to say how true the charges are because the goverment of Pakistan has corrupt people in government. It's tough to believe the charges when the ones making them are corrupt themselves.

[in_cog_ni_to]

47. Well, THAT changes my opinion then. That's good to know. I thought it was something

she had been convicted of and was just a well known fact, but I had no clue they were charges made by her political enemies. That changes the story completely, IMCPO.

[ellisonz]

49. She had been convicted by the Swiss gov't and was appealing...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7064052.stm

[treestar]

15. I guess she could "understand" why the Clintons or other Democrats

would be killed.

What an ignorant moran. She does not deserve to live in a democracy. She ought to be deported to a fascist state where she would undoubtedly be happier.

[zbdent]

17. those fucktards masturbate to "strong" masculine images ...

I mean, they were bottle-fed stuff in the original German ...

[kentuck]

18. Yes, we have to kill all those corrupt people...

Before they become murderers? What kind of sick mind rationalizes in such a way?

[Fire Walk With Me]

23. These same people don't see BushCo as corrupt?

Or are BushCo THEIR kind of corrupt?

[BushOut06]

26. I think you hit it on the head

As long as it's one of theirs, they don't care.

[shance]

24. White supremists/neo capitalists/ Neocons I'm certain hated her.

That hate anyone who not white, not male and anyone who believes in honest, fair government.

[cgrindley]

32. Her government was far from honest

come on... she was better than everyone else, but she wasn't a paragon of moral virtue.

[Egalitariat]

42. White supremacists had no idea she even existed. What are neo capitalists?***

nm

[DemKR]

27. sounds like something ann coulter would say

I remember an article last month where she was slamming her

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

34. These dickbags should be forced to find Pakistan on a map before they speak

Everyone is corrupt to them because they can't imagine anyone in power not being greedy and abusing their authority like they would if they had the chance.

[ooga booga]

35. Think you guys needs to read Huffingtonpost.com

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/benazir-bhutto-from-the-_b_78488.html

[shance]

37. Thank you for sharing OB*** A lovely tribute to her.

n/t

[spanone]

38. the same mentality that supports the criminal bu$h* regime

[dysfunctional press]

50. just because a right-winger said it- it doesn't make her any less corrupt.

nt.