Fellow DUers... may I make another friendly suggestion please?

[redqueen]

Can we try to seek out the kernel of truth in each others comments, and address and accent those? Can we point out the flaws in a way that will help to keep the lines of communication open, rather than help them to shut down? Can we not read the critical parts of each other's comments defensively... not take them personally, even if they are meant as personal insults? I'm asking "can" but I should be saying "could". I know we can... but will we?

I will say it again... things are going to get even worse here pretty soon, when the primaries start heating up. I think it would help us all to stay focused on our common goals and not try to highlight and even exacerbate our differences by making a mountain out of every molehill we run across.

There are friendly ways and nasty ways of communicating. It seems the nasty ways are more and more popular these days... I don't know about y'all... but it seems to me that it's just counterproductive.

Please don't flame me! ;)

[mdmc]

1. yes!

:hi:

[enigmatic]

2. Good luck with that

And I mean that sincerely. I think it's too late, but that's just me.

[redqueen]

9. IMO it is never too late..

Not even when we're dead, cause future generations can keep trying, still.

:pals:

[jobycom]

3. Suggestion noted

Now back to the squirrel flame-fest!

I, of course, agree with every word you said. That's a long way from saying I think your post will make it happen. Though I will cheer for you if it does! :)

[SharonAnn]

4. Yes, thank you. It's good to be reminded about civility and acceptable debate behavior.

[underpants]

5. GET HER!!!

[Lasher]

30. Heee heeee, you're funny, Underpants.

:rofl:

[ClassWarrior]

6. Thanks RQ. Making sense as usual...

:hi:

NGU.

[redwitch]

7. Civility lives!

:applause:

[Dhalgren]

8. My Queen! Your words are the very essence of wisdom!

I agree you 1000%, Red. You always were a smart one. :loveya:

[demnan]

10. I admire you

Entering the 2008 election discussion on DU is sort of like sticking your hand into a beehive.

Actually in my opinion we better start working for something positive before 08, in 2 years Bush might screw us over so bad we might not even have an election left to fight over.

[chefgirl]

11. While I admire your effort

I agree with the spirit and letter of your post 100%.

Unfortunately, not gonna happen.

-chef-

[redqueen]

19. I know some won't be able do it... or just flat out won't... heh...

but I still gotta try to encourage those that might.

:hi:

[wiley]

39. Znot an Oscar Wilde quote I bet

I think it's someone else. It's sad that all DUers think that because McCain is 72 years old that they can't expose his stupidity. They just want to trash each other's candidates in huffy little tantrums. "Okay, this is IT. I will NEVER vote for Maxwell now!" Wait, why we they attacking Wes Clark again? He and Kucinich would make a great ticket. There's lots of great tickets. The American electorate will entertain Republicans as elected officials as long as they think Democrats are nasty and negative. It's worse here than just about anywhere else. Passionate, yes. Productive? I don't think so. A winning approach? No.

[TZ]

12. I totally agree!!!

Totally counterproductive. I love a good debate and I know everyone is never going to see eye to eye. The nastiness just ruins it for many:)

[EVDebs]

13. Patton said I give it to 'em good and nasty and that way they remember it nt

[Lone_Star_Dem]

14. I'm going to bookmark this

Well said! I plan on reusing your wise words often.

[skypilot]

15. Oh, I see...

...so you want me to censor myself just to please you and cater to your delicate sensibilities!!

Just kidding. But that's the kind of post you're talking about, right?:) :hi:

[redqueen]

18. hehehehe

Yes, exactly!

[jarnocan]

16. thank you from the typo queen:) btw here's a global warming Ption

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/113898007?z00m=9414579&z00m=9414579

[In Truth We Trust]

17. k&r

[derby378]

20. Hey, as long as nobody's trash-talking our beloved Texas...

...I'll try to be as nice as pie. :hi:

[Nightjock]

21. HuRRUMPH!...but it won't happen

I am with you 100% but ......

Just post a pro Hillary thread. She is my LAST choice behind EVERYONE, but it still makes me ill reading the Hillary hatred. And that will not go away.

[redqueen]

23. Yes... I know what you mean...

my hope is that we might deal with Hillary hatred (and whatever other kinds of divisive issues crop up) by trying to defuse the hostility. We can acknowledging the points a hostile poster is making... either by seeking to understand their reasons for thinking the way they do / showing that we understand their reasons for it... and then sharing information or sentiments which express our own point of view... in a way that will help us to stay united after the argument is over.

Sorta like this... 'Yes, I was listening to the IWR vote, and I hated hearing her vote for it... still, though, don't you agree that even a centrist / blue dog Dem is better than a republican?'

Does that make sense?

[The Straight Story]

22. For the first time since I have been here I have people on ignore

Makes it a much better experience.

[mnhtnbb]

24. Good luck! I don't see many of the worst offenders responding....

[redqueen]

25. Well...

we could always lead by example, right? And hope that others respond to us this way when we get aggressive & nasty... which we all do of course.

[Jonathan50]

26. "I don't give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." - Harry S. Truman.

It's been my experience on many online fora ever since the days of Atari computers and 300 baud acoustic modems you had to put your phone handset on that there are a lot of people who are going to react negatively whenever you disagree with them, no matter how politely.

That's not to say that politeness is not called for, I agree with that one hundred percent.

I'm just pointing out that for a large minority of people disagreement=attack.

[Bobbie Jo]

27. If we were still doing the hearts "thing", I'd toss you one....

Nicely done. O8)

[Double T]

28. HOW DARE YOU............

make such an intelligent and reasonable suggestion!! Great idea, 'WE' are ALL on the same side fighting for the same cause(s); let's NOT forget 'OUR' purpose. NO MORE RW NEOCON RETHUGLIC CONSERVATIVES RUNNING 'OUR' LIVES AND COUNTRY!!! Thank you redqueen, for your thoughtful insight!!

[namvet73]

29. Very good point!

We should try to communicate the way we would if we were face to face.

See this interesting article:

The online disinhibition effect - http://www.enotalone.com/article/2458.html

[walldude]

31. Wishful thinking..

I don't disagree with you but it's not going to happen. 2 things you should not talk about if you don't want to argue, Politics and Religion. I have made this same request in the past on DU but have since learned that it's never going to happen. I have learned how to use the ignore and take breaks from DU when things get too weird. Spending less time in GD also works. But in GD you are going to have to accept that there are going to be issues.

[redqueen]

33. I'm not against argument... that was not my point, that we shouldn't argue.

My point is that we don't have to either be nasty, or respond in kind when others are nasty with us. :)

I accept that it'll never be Mary Poppins Land, of course, but I know we could improve a lot. I've seen this place in better days. I think a lot of the cantankerousness is due to stress. I'm only trying to do my bit to help lessen some of the reaction to it.

[walldude]

34. I fully understand.. and I try to be peaceful and make jokes

when I am debating someone, you know keep things light. But even then, and even by people I have respected on DU I have been attacked for some of my views. Not much you can do about it. There is always one or two people who just want to start some shit. I wrote a post a few days ago that discussed the Republicans fake "support" for the troops. It turned out to be a good thread and was the most recommended of the day. But no matter how much you try to appeal to everyone there is always one. How do you argue with the fact that the Republicans are the ones who "don't support the troops"? Well, one person on DU managed to do it. He claimed I was "using the troops for personal gain". Whatever that means :eyes: I do applaud your effort and hope it works, but don't let it get you down if it doesn't, we need everyone we can get!

[SayWhatYo]

32. Werd...

Typically, if I am "debating" someone about something they resort to petty insults and other lame tactics. I find that if you simply remain cool and do not resort to the same tactics, they will either chill out or they will simply go 'troll' elsewhere. Anyways, I haven't came across it too much here at DU. Although, there were some minor cases of nastiness here and there, I never had any one say anything too bad.

[nashville_brook]

35. always best catch them flies with honey

always better to lead with light rather than heat.

i really feel sorry for folks who comport themselves as ankle biters. i imagine they are lonely and powerless and really only care about "hearing themselves speak".

i also imagine these folks depersonalize online interaction -- that they really only see avatars and screen names where the rest of us "see" real, live people.

most often, fellow DU'ers treat nashville_brook like the real person i am. i've often received many notes of support after posting about hitting a rough patch. people PM me to personally give props when i post something that struck a chord (which hasn't been in a long while, as i'm too busy to post like i used to).

by and large, DU'ers are not just considerate -- but i find you guys to be an outstanding caring community.

i too have experienced some ankle biters here, but they don't stick in my mind the way a kind person does. it's like in real life, when you see that raging asshole drinking alone at the bar. everyone knows to stay away... everyone can read "body language" of the room... he's the one sitting alone, at the end of the bar, scanning the room hoping to find an argument to keep him company... he'll eventually stagger over to you to spit his opinion in your general direction. in real life, anyone could see that the only thing to do is IGNORE this sad creature because he's not interested in conversation -- he's just "startin' some shit."

online, without visual social cues, it's more difficult to make this distinction -- but, believe me when i say IT'S THE SAME THING.

[redqueen]

36. :)

love your post, thank you. :hi:

[tigereye]

37. that's what "discussion" is supposed to mean

:thumbsup:

:hi:

[bobbolink]

38. Waddya mean, try to be a commie PEACE BROKER or sumfin'??

I mean, *really*... :)

Use the same non-violent skills we are taught in peace workshops? What a concept!

A lot of years ago, I thought we as a nation would actually be using non-violent communication by now.

Shows you just how naive a dirtyhippiepinkocommiebum can be!

Here's my challenge... why don't we try to use the same understanding and non-violent skills with EACH OTHER that were taught for use with RWers at Camp Casey????

[redqueen]

40. Exactly!

It's really sad when you're faced with it... people get so hostile. Ugh.

It's a long, hard slog, but what other choice is there?

[bobbolink]

42. The clear choice is to learn peace-making!

I don't know *any* campaign or Dem office that would allow the kind of attacks that go on here.

I think that should be the standard, shouldn't it?

Thanks for your efforts! :toast: :bounce:

[redqueen]

43. Well... I don't know...

I think we all get stressed and snap at each other from time to time, take things personally and get defensive or act out in a hostile manner... so we all are at risk of violating those rules. Instead of requiring to some reprimand from authority, I would hope we could check our own behavior and make peace with each other after altercations... perhaps with help from persons not so emotionally invested in the argument.

:)

[raccoon]

41. I second that emotion!

Seems like since the Republicans have been in the WH, nasty ways are in vogue. The Dick, and others, set the tone. As they say in the army, Scheiss runs downhill.

[redqueen]

44. Well I don't like to blame Republics for *everything*...

but there does seem to be a trend... white supremacy groups growing in numbers, attacks on religious places on the rise, etc.

Things sure don't seem to be improving, that's for sure. Heh... I wonder when things were improving... when those sorts of things were declining in this country... hmmmm :)