Kerry threatens NFL if Patriots-Giants not on NBC

[babylonsister]

Go, Kerry! :applause: Though the game will no doubt stink. :hide:

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2007/12/kerry_threatens_nfl_if_patriot.html

Kerry threatens NFL if Patriots-Giants not on NBC

by Matthew Hay Brown

With the New England Patriots now one win away from finishing the regular season undefeated, Sen. John Kerry is stepping up his campaign to get the final game broadcast on national television.

The contest Saturday with the New York Giants is to air locally in Boston and New York. But outside those markets it is scheduled to appear only on the NFL Network, a cable channel that reaches just 35 million households nationwide while the league and cable operators dicker over pricing and distribution.

Kerry asked football Commissioner Roger Goodell today to move the game to NBC – and threatened Senate hearings if he does not.

“Under the unfortunate circumstance that this matter remains unresolved, leaving 60 percent of households across the country – including thousands in Massachusetts – without access to Saturday’s game, I will ask the Senate Commerce Committee to hold hearings on how the emergence of premium sports channels are impacting the consumer,” he wrote to Goodell today in a letter released by his office.

The Massachusetts Democrat added that he would “consider what legislative measures may be necessary to ensure that consumers are more than bystanders in this process.”

Kerry, who had offered earlier to convene a meeting between the league and cable operators, is only one of several lawmakers attempting to intervene. Democratic Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont and Republican Sen. Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, the chairman and ranking member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, have threatened to reconsider the league’s federal antitrust exemption if the sides do not come to an agreement.

Time Warner rejected an offer by Goodell last week to submit their differences to an arbitrator.

“As a Bostonian, I couldn’t be more pleased that in just five days, the New England Patriots will attempt to become the first NFL team in 35 years to finish the regular season with an undefeated record,” Kerry wrote. “But as someone who represents all of Massachusetts and not just those in the Boston media market, I remain deeply troubled that today as many as 250,000 Massachusetts households, and millions of Patriots fans nationwide, may be denied access to this historic sporting event. …

“For a game of this significance to be used as a bargaining chip or point of leverage between corporations locked in a dispute would say a great deal about the esteem in which America's football fans are held by the big interests,” Kerry wrote.

[book_worm]

1. that's nice. If only our politicians would work as hard at getting us out of Iraq or begin hearings

on Bush's criminality which could lead to impeachment.

[babylonsister]

4. Kerry works tirelessly; this is for the Pats fans, and football fans in

general.

[sandnsea]

8. He's worked the hardest on that too

and SCHIP for kids, and Katrina victims, and climate change, and on and on. If Democrats would support the politicians who are working hard, maybe we'd get more accomplished.

[elleng]

12. Or begin hearings

on the Federal Communications Commission.

[ProSense]

24. He's on the FCC case already

Kerry Condemns Hasty FCC Vote, Will Pursue FCC Funding Freeze

[elleng]

29. GOOD!

FREEZE them out! (Just the Reps, actually!)

[DrDan]

59. or how about universal health care, or improving the problems with our schools,

or fixing the infrastructure, or fixing social security.

[Cha]

80. Kerry does work "tirelessly"..

but I hear ya!

[LittleClarkie]

143. It's called multi-tasking

He's doing many things.

[acmavm]

2. Premium sports channels are a racket. My brother, when he lived here,

took out a package on cable. Can't remember what it cost a month but he did it because that was the only way he'd get a lot of the sports shit he wanted to see.

But then again, what isn't a racket nowdays?

[no_hypocrisy]

3. With a pang, I only wish Kerry were that diligent as far as challenging

the tabulated votes for his potential election to the presidency in 2004.

[karynnj]

102. There was not and is still not sufficient proof

There was no question of TABULATED votes, the problems were votes not cast due to suppresion or problems for which there were no ballots to recount.

He has spoken often on the need to fix this in and out of the Senate - starting in early 2005.

[fascisthunter]

5. Good.... Even Time Warner Sued, I Was Told

Just think: with the money the NFL already has, and now this. Try buying a ticket to a football game these days. Greed

[The Gunslinger]

6. Id rather have impeachment hearings

Unless your a Pats fan, who cares about that game. Theres no need to watch. They will win and continue to win the superbowl. It's kinda taken the fun out of football. It's like watching pro wrestling.

[karynnj]

103. Talk to your Representative - it had to start in the House

and we know it won't.

[acmavm]

7. Oh for cripe's sakes. People here would bitch if they were shot with a

new gun.

Can't anything just be what it is?

[Reverend_Smitty]

10. Don't you realize that we are never supposed to enjoy something as frivolous as sport?

and don't even think of enjoying Christmas with your family tomorrow...aren't you a real liberal? Get out and protest something!!!

:sarcasm:

[politicasista]

17. Yep

Which is why I have stayed away from here. Breaks are good. :)

[Divine Discontent]

135. lol...

that line made me smile. thanks!

[LeftyMom]

9. I'm as big a football fan as any, but football games aren't a vital public interest.

The NFL could put them all on cable if they wanted. Hell, other sports (boxing, for one) and entertainments like wrestling are almost entirely PPV for marquee events.

[Buzz Clik]

11. Funny. Kerry didn't seem to mind when other people's favorite teams were buried there.

Good job, Kerry. Way to serve you own best interests.

[babylonsister]

14. From my understanding, New Englanders, his constituents, are

making a lot of noise about this, and he's listening. Would be nice if every senator 'did' for their state like he does.

[Buzz Clik]

25. ... about more important issues than pro football, right?

I

[LittleClarkie]

180. It's not the only thing he's doing. It's one of many things.

It's just the thing getting reported.

[jeffrey_X]

123. It's just a freaking game.....BFD.

Aren't there bigger fish to fry in this world? I play fantasy football and I watch sports, but this is just insane for our elected officials to put this "issue" over other pressing issues and problems in our society.

Do we really need that much of an escape from our daily lives? Is it really that bad? Is this game really that important in the grand scheme of things?

Nobody was crying last week they couldn't watch Cowboys and Panters.

[ProSense]

21. He does other work as

Chairman of Subcommittee on Social Security, Pensions, and Family Policy to protect NFL players, and not all of them are his constituents.

Kerry Warns NFL to Help Retired Players or Face Congressional Action

[Buzz Clik]

27. ... but this didn't show up on his radar until the Pats' game was on the NFL network.

Bad timing. Silly issue.

Ah, the consummate politician.

[ProSense]

28. No, it's called doing his job! n/t

[politicasista]

30. Exactly n/t

[Buzz Clik]

43. Right. Threatening the NFL because he doesn't like the tv contract is part of his job.

Yeah. I'd like to see that in his contract.

[ProSense]

50. If you want to put it that way, but yes it is.

Hint: public access, tax subsidies, antitrust.

More here and here (these are about baseball, but same issue.

[karynnj]

106. You missed the other things he did this month

From memory - he gave an excellent speech on what to do with Afghanistan at SAIS. He also was the ONLY person from Congress to go to Bali - even though to do it required a total of 40 hours on commercial flights. He also spent the Thanksgiving recess in South Africa meeting with leaders as well as learning more about the work done on AIDS (it was a Kerry written bill with Frist) that now provides more US aid on this than in the 1990s. He saw villages where many children were raising younger children. (Look at Kerryvision.net - they have "newsreels" of his weekly activities.

[karynnj]

104. Last I looked, after his name it said D, Massachusetts

On baseball, he helped everyone with the interest in watching out of area games. Here, this is likely an attempt to push a more general philosophy. Or, maybe your Senator should have worked on this.

[graywarrior]

13. YES!

I hate when they don't play them in Florida and we're forced to watch that pitiful Tampa Bay team instead. Or worse, the Dolphins.

[gmudem]

19. Tampa Bay is going to win their division this year

Not exactly pitiful. And I'm a Jets fan, so I know pitiful when I see it.

[graywarrior]

22. I hate Tampa Bay

Therefore, they are pitiful. But that's my obnoxious opinion.

[gmudem]

64. Fair enough.

I hate the Patriots and every single thing about them. If Belichick died tonight, I would cry tears of joy.

Does that make me a bad person? Maybe, but I don't care. :)

[_testify_]

161. I wonder if we're related

:patriot:

[durrrty libby]

23. lol Sorry about them Jets. And indeed, the Bucs ar not exactly

chopped liver. Got to love Gruden and his "Chucky" expressions:)

[durrrty libby]

15. Well John, anyone out of market and a little internet savvy

can easily find a way to watch it.:P

[michreject]

46. I have the NFL network

I have Directv.:)

[desi]

67. Well I'm rooting for the poor slaves (Giants)

who will be fed to the lions (Pats) at the coliseum and I'm out of market and have a couple of machines but not the savvy. But my PM works...;-)

[durrrty libby]

70. Ok , Since you are a Hillary supporter, I won't hold it against you

:toast:

[desi]

79. Did I forget to congratulate you on the BOSOX win...???

Sorry if I did forget...:toast:

[durrrty libby]

93. Thanks and Spring Training can't get here fast enough

PM'd

[politicasista]

16. I like football

I know people have issues with the sport here, but I wish my senator would listen to their constituents.




edit to re-read

[Uben]

18. Who cares?

The Dallas Cowboys are going to win the superbowl anyway.

[durrrty libby]

26. lol It is nice to dream big.Good for you

[blondeatlast]

20. I know people will whine about this, but this is a good example of representing one's constituents.

As a sports fan, I also appreciate it. This is a very important game.

Good on ya, Senator! :thumbsup:

[librechik]

33. yes--why aren't they getting their asses in gear over SCHIP???

or Habeas, or eawarrantless eavesdropping or impeachment...


oh...yeah...football is so much more important to guys --er--constituents than the welfare of children.

I get it, really.

[ProSense]

35. Kerry's been fighting for SCHIP since he wrote the orginal legislation

on which it was based more than a decade ago. He's been fighting for it ever since. Now, you want him to take criticism for all the Republicans who voted against it?

[LittleClarkie]

182. If only folks paid attention to him before slamming him

they'd know what he does and has been doing. This is but a mere part of the whole.

[blondeatlast]

51. I'm a chick--and it's a good way to serve his constituents.

You don't have to like it.

And oh, yeah, Kerry has been doing overtime on SCHIP, actually, but Happy Holidays anyway.

[NashVegas]

87. His Constituents Will Be in the Viewing Area

...

[karynnj]

108. He represents ALL of MA, not just the Boston area

[Aptastik]

31. Who wants to see this game anyway?

The pilsbury throwboy and the Giants practice squad are gonna get slaughtered by the Pats who probably won't bench anybody. I'm a Giants fan and I couldn't care less.



Oh yeah, this guy will put on a clinic!

[smoogatz]

32. Next on Kerry's agenda: busting up the rutabaga cartel.

Because several thousand people are affected by rutabaga price-fixing. Maybe it was several hundred. Several, anyway. Go Big John!

[ProSense]

34. Anti-trust is on his agenda

Kerry Condemns Hasty FCC Vote, Will Pursue FCC Funding Freeze

This plays into that you know?

I love left bloggers who think Kerry is fair game for ridicule while they go on to support candidates who couldn't hold a candle to him on any issue.

Who do you support?

[smoogatz]

36. If President Gore was running, I'd support him.

Since he's not, I'll support the democratic nominee, whoever it turns out to be. Who's your candidate, Pro Sense?

And it's not Kerry who deserves ridicule so much as his supporters, who would post press releases praising the size, color and aroma of Kerry's bowel movements and vote them onto the Greatest page if such press releases were made available to them.

[ProSense]

38. Fine!

I still think Kerry is a far more progressive candidate than Gore! That's why I continue to support Kerry!

[smoogatz]

40. Kerry's not running.

Who do you like in the primaries? Anybody?

:shrug:

[politicasista]

37. Amen

The double standard here is very tiresome.

[smoogatz]

58. Which double standard is that?

The one that says only Kerry, among all Democrats, is immune from critique?

[ProSense]

60. What are you criticizing him for this time?

Having his name appear in the title of a thread or is there something more substantive, such as the imaginary "rutabaga cartel"?

[smoogatz]

61. This is probably a case of Kerry's supporters making him look bad—

like a guy that insists on reading the last few pages of a detective novel while the house burns around him. Kerry's okay, though he does seem to have developed a fine sense of mis-timing, misproportion and misplaced priorities. I'm having a hard time figuring out why the manufactured crisis of NFL-Network-gate is anywhere near the top of Kerry's to-do list right now.

[ProSense]

62. You would!

The role of a high-powered Senator involves tasks (ensuring public access to the airwaves, enforcing antitrust laws, etc.) that may seem mundane to you but, but need to be addressed.

[smoogatz]

63. If you say so.

Merry Christmas, Pro Sense. And a happy, healthy New Year, too.

[ProSense]

68. Same to you, smoogatz. n/t

[karynnj]

109. Top of his list?

I guess the major Afghanistan speech, the work at Bali on global warming and the trip to southern Africa where he saw the ravages that AIDS has causes. (Kerry incidentially pushed for aid for Africa on this when noone else was interested in the 1990s - and he wrote the bill that he and Frist pushed that Bush signed giving more aid than was allocated in the 1990s.

How much time to you think he spent on the NFL?

[LittleClarkie]

184. Currently on his agenda: SCHIP, the war, children's health care

oh, and football. Sadly, this is the one getting the attention.

If you think all he stands up for is things like football or as you say facetiously, rutabagas, then you haven't been paying much attention to him. And if you slam him when you haven't been paying much attention to him, it is you, and not him, who will tend to look like a schmuck.

[politicasista]

39. It seems in this thread that....

more are just interested in bashing Kerry and don't really care about football.

[babylonsister]

42. It certainly seems that way. They obviously haven't been paying

attention.

[politicasista]

176. Yep

:hi:

[nickinSTL]

41. I have a hard time believing this is really worth Kerry's attention...

I mean, I think it should be on a network channel so the most people can see it, but...I don't know that it's worth the attention and time of a US Senator, the Judiciary Committee, and the Senate at large if he decides to take it further.

(Of course, the fact that I get NFL Network on my satellite package (which is not a comprehensive one at all) may color my perception a bit.)

[karynnj]

111. Neither the Judiciary Committee or the Senate at large have anything to do with this

The Commerce committee DOES have jurisdiction in this area. What is available or not - the issue of diversity - is part of their job - and Kerry is on that committee.

[nickinSTL]

118. ok, sorry, I thought someone mentioned the Judiciary

committee having a say.

The point remains, though. Whether it's the Judiciary committee or the Commerce committee.

[onenote]

164. actually, Judiciary does have something to do with it

The jurisdiction of the Judiciary Committee includes competition issues and the NFL is the beneficiary of a statutory antitrust exemption. So when the NFL throws its weight around, Judiciary gets involved. Indeed, the NFL Network's carriage demands were the topic of a hearing in the Senate Judiciary Committee in November 2006. http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/1114nflnetwork-congress-ON.html

[tammywammy]

44. Good

This whole only showing games on the NFL network is total crap. There have been big games this year that most people couldn't watch.

Thankfully as a Dallas fan, I live in the DFW area so I can see them. But I don't have the NFL Network, and I'd like to see the Patriot/Giant game coming up.

[robcon]

45. I think he should investigate why the Jets are terrible...

or the Dolphins, 49ers or Raiders.

Waste of time, John.

[MikeNearMcChord]

47. Frankly the NFL Network isn't that great.

Unless you are a very hardcore fan. Once the season ends, what is on there?
I mean outside of the draft(and hell, ESPN can show it at less cost), the network is dullsville. I hope it ends up dying on the vine.

[karlrschneider]

48. Nice to know he has significant priorities...

:eyes:

[AngryAmish]

49. Does it bother anyone that this is governmental thuggery at its worst?

Last time I checked the Constitution it is silent on the issue of football broadcasting.

No one has a right to watch a certain game on television. This may be a stupid dispute they are having, but a private dispute none the less. It is not on the public airwaves but on private cable and satellite systems.

[ProSense]

52. Huh? n/t

[AngryAmish]

56. It is none of the government's business which football games get broadcast

Yes, people want this. But the government is not here just to give us things we want. And threatening to punish people with congressional punishment for not broadcasting a football game, that, my friend, is thuggery. In fact there may be 1st Amendment issues.

[ProSense]

57. "Yes, people want this. But the government is not here just to give us things we want."

Which country do you live in/want to live in: Bush's?

Kerry is Chairman of one of the committees with jurisdiction over this issue.
The NFL is subsidized by taxpayer monies so public access and antitrust laws are in play.

It's funny how much some people on DU sound like the wingnuts, who are obviously ignorant about what a Senator's role is.

[Sanctified]

71. Why does he not work to get every game televised nationally

instead of just the New England game?

[ProSense]

73. Hold up! You went from

WTF, questioning why a Senator would be working on this issue at all to wondering why he isn't pushing to televise all games nationally?

Seriously, what is your beef?

Kerry! #@3$#@#$##@***

Seriously?

[Sanctified]

75. Thats exactly it, why waste time and energy for one fucking team,

when there are more pressing issues out there. The game is being televised in their local markets there is no reason why he needs to waste time and money to just make sure 1 team gets televised nationally when no other team gets televised nationally.

[ProSense]

76. You obviously missed the point,

it's not about the team, it about the rules. And you still haven't address why you suddenly deem it important for a Senator to take this up whether based on your premise it's one team or more? Btw, Leahy and Specter do not live in MA.

[Sanctified]

85. The game is not important

and it should not matter who is televising it. Our elected officials should be putting effort into making real fucking changes in our country not crying because their home team is only being televised in their local market.

I like watching the Browns play but I am not going to cry if they are televised on NFL networks and I don't get to see them.

[ProSense]

88. Fortunately,

you don't get to dictate what our elected officials do for us. Kerry is performing his oversight role.

[karynnj]

114. What money is he wasting?

As to time, Kerry is an extremely hard working Senator. Given that he spent the Thankgsiving break in South Africa representing the SFRC, and spent one entire long weekend attending the Bali conference, I doubt MA has any reason to complain about an extra few hours spent on football.

[A-Long-Little-Doggie]

181. The Patriots market is all of New England

and the game is only going to be on a local Boston station. I will not be able to watch it while I am in Maine this weekend, and that sucks. Senator Kerry does alot of great work for Massachusetts and I am glad that he recognizes the significance of this game to all of the Patriots fans throughout New England.

[karynnj]

113. So, you are for unrestrained capitalism -

Go find your copies of Ayn Rand and find Libertarian underground. Cable has a local monopoly - thus it should be regulated. (In most areas, you have no choice - only one company was been GRANTED the right to serve your house.)

[MyNameGoesHere]

175. Yes it bothers the fuck out of me

and i think this is way beneath the Senator i know.

[Blue_Tires]

53. who gives a good goddamn?

Why is it that important? Certainly the die-hard pats fans can find the local sports bar, or bum around at a friend's house that has direct tv....even if they are too inflexible to do either of those options, heaven forbid they turn on the radio or something simple like that....

[Sanctified]

54. WTF???? We send people to Washington for this shit.

Come on we have a War in Iraq, a government that is spying on it's own citizens, an economy that is in shambles, a heath care system that is out to let people die if it means they turn profit and a fucking football game is his most pressing issue.

I love football as much as the next guy but seriously I could give to shits if the NFL network wants to turn profit by offering the game of year to only their customers.

[ProSense]

55. Well,

yes! It's important too.

I see some people are complaining for sport and some really don't understand the the issue.

[brettdale]

65. If only John Kerry

Had of fought the election fraud in Ohio this hard.

[WildEyedLiberal]

66. PEOPLE FOR GOD'S SAKE - this isn't about football. It's about increasingly greedy corporations

making consumers pay out the nose for things that USED to be public access and free.

The NFL network, the Big Ten Network, and all these other bogus private league networks are just one step on the road to taking any quality programming AWAY from from public-access free airwaves and putting them on costly private channels, forcing consumers to pay a ridiculous subscription fee to watch anything. If they get their way now, with the NFL Network, do you really think they'll stop until everything worth watching, every public event expected to garner big ratings, is on some private channel that you'll have to pay a huge amount for the privilege to watch?

I love how the DU purity brigade claims to care about the corporate media and its monopoly over information dissemination and programming, and yet when a politician actually dares to address the issue of corporate greed screwing consumers out of what has always been free programming, all they can do is bitch and piss and moan. Because it's "just football" or heaven FORBID because it's John F. Kerry who is making this an issue and not some golden DU hero like Al Gore or Russ Feingold who would no doubt be lauded for the very same actions.

Way to go, guys. :eyes:

[Sanctified]

69. The game is being televised in their local markets. n/t

[KamaAina]

83. They've been the New England Patriots, not the Boston Patriots, since the AFL merger

the game is being telecast only in Boston, not Providence, Hartford, Springfield, Burlington, Portland, Bangor, or anywhere else in New England that can't pick up the Boston stations and/or doesn't get them on cable.

edit: the Pats' home, Gillette Stadium in Foxboro, is nearly equidistant between Boston and Providence, yet R.I. (the Bluest state in the land, I might add) gets screwed.

[WillyT]

78. EXACTLY !!! - And The Internet... Is NEXT !!!

Superb point!

:shrug:

[durrrty libby]

86. "DU purity brigade"

True Dat :scared:

[blondeatlast]

138. "DU Purity Brigade." Love it! and they are out in force on this one, eh?!

:rofl::thumbsup:

[Ilsa]

72. Having same problem getting to watch the dallas cowboys.

My bro in D watches the games on a local station, but occasionally, their games, like Saturday night's game, are only placd on NFL network outside their markets.

[hyphenate]

74. Kerry, Leahy and Specter

must have some pretty big bucks on the game, don'tcha think?

[proud2BlibKansan]

77. Yep let's do all we can to make those corporate sponsors wealthier

What fucking waste of time.

How many soldiers died while he was threatening NBC?

Sorry but this pisses me off to no end.

[ProSense]

81. "How many soldiers died while he was threatening NBC?"

How many soldiers would have died had he not?

How many soldiers are dying while he's advocating for stronger climate change legislation?

How many soldiers are dying while he's pushing for low-income heating assistance?

The implication in your comment is that Kerry should do nothing else as long as the war in Iraq goes on.

[proud2BlibKansan]

90. And this is as important as any of the other issues you mentioned ???

Come on. He's shilling for the sponsors. Why is that his responsibility?

[ProSense]

92. Are those other issues

as important as soldiers dying?

As for his responsibility, read the rest of the thread (that's your responsibility), but it looks as though you've already made up your mind: "He's shilling for the sponsors."

[proud2BlibKansan]

94. Yep corporate democracy in action

Sorry if you can't see that.

[ProSense]

98. You can't make the connection between this

and public access/media consolidation, and you claim I'm missing something?

[karynnj]

115. This is ANTI- corporation

sorry you can't see that he is pushing the cable companies (CORPORATIONS) and the NFL(CORPORATION) to consider the desires of people.

[Selatius]

151. Sorry, but if you've read the entire article, Kerry is opposing what the companies are doing.

If the companies had it their way, people would essentially have to pay for something that was essentially free. Only a laissez-faire attitude would agree with such a change.

[WildEyedLiberal]

121. No, he's "shilling" for his constituents and the regular PEOPLE who deserve to watch TV for free

God, read the WHOLE OP and read the whole thread before you start making half-cocked comments like that. It sounds like you're just on autopilot - you saw the mention of TV networks and football, halted all semblance of critical thinking, and just started popping out DU feelgood cliches.

[Breeze54]

84. Huh? Have you seen the new FCC rules???

Did you sign the petition yet?

Kerry is sticking up for you and me!!!

Please see my sig and sign if you haven't yet!!

FUCK THE FCC!!!! :grr:

Or just go here for more info and to sign! ;)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2491700&mesg_id=2491700

[proud2BlibKansan]

91. Yes I already signed it

I fail to see how that is connected to a TV network airing a football game.

[Breeze54]

96. The Network is blocking almost everyone from watching the game unless they pay!!

BIG fucking greedy MEDIA!!

They're at it again!!

They're seeking big $$$$ for something that has always been on all the networks for free!!

Get it?? :shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

100. Well that sucks

[WildEyedLiberal]

120. It doesn't sound like you even read the OP - your outrage is so misplaced

He didn't "threaten NBC" - the game isn't ON NBC, it's on the NFL network, which, UNLIKE NBC, is a private channel for which you must pay through satellite for the privilege of watching. You obviously didn't even bother reading the OP to get such a basic detail so glaringly wrong. You seem to think you're being some anti-corporate crusader, but if you don't mind the NFL Network forcing people to pay to watch football games, then soon you'll be paying for every piece of programming that used to be free on public airwaves. You don't really think they'll stop at football, do you?

For someone who purports to care about the corporate media, maybe you should actually read the story, read what Kerry's trying to do, instead of reading the headline and spouting off about dead soldiers, as if no other issue in the country matters besides the Iraq War, or as if politicians can't multitask. Jesus.

[Breeze54]

82. Go Kerry!!! ~ WOOT!!! ~ FUCK THE FCC!!!!

Please sign to overturn the FCC 'Rhulez' at my sig below!!

:woohoo: :woohoo:

[RB TexLa]

89. Important game? The Giants have pretty much said they are resting their starters

The Giants couldn't care if New England goes 16-0, they want to win their playoff game.

[leaninglib]

95. Its stuff like this that makes me hate politicians—all politicians.

Senator Kerry, please cite which article/paragraph of the Constitution gives you the power to decide which channel a football game should be broadcast. :crazy:

Can you believe it?

[Breeze54]

97. Please try to understand the take over of the media!!!

Making everyone pay to see something that has normally been on all networks is GREED!!!!

See my sig line!

[Sanctified]

101. The only game that usually gets national coverage is the Super Bowl.

Other than that games are usually just shown in select markets.

[Breeze54]

105. Not where I am! I see a lot of games on network TV!

As it should be!

[Sanctified]

124. Yes you get a lot of games but they are games televised in your market.

Depending on where you live dictates the games you see, if you live on the East Coast then you will mostly see east coast games while people on the west coast see west coast games. The only teams that get national coverage are the ones that play on Sunday and Monday nights. And the Monday night game is only televised on ESPN.

[leaninglib]

130. I like the sig line; but I disagree with you about football.

The NFL should broadcast the game on whichever channel it decides. And Senator Kerry should do the job that he is paid to do instead of worrying about a damn football game.

[Breeze54]

197. Part of the job as a Senator is to take care of your state!

Kerry did that. That's part of what he's paid to do and he went to bat for his constituents.

I :toast: him for it!

[CGowen]

99. He and his team obviously won the election in 04, but this is more important. n/t

[leaninglib]

132. Yes, it speaks volumes with respect to his priorities.

[karynnj]

117. He is not "deciding" anything, nor is he "threatening" anything,

what he is doing is using his voice to push two greedy sides to rethink what they are doing - especially as it could hurt them long term if they loss the viewers/fans.

The Constitution is not a to do list - the commerce committee has oversight over the FCC - and cable.

[leaninglib]

131. The Constitution was written to prevent control freaks like Kerry from doing stuff like this.

The powers given to the fedgov were meant to be limited and few.

Amendment Ten

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

[ProSense]

163. So the Constitution was written to allow

the NFL to take taxpayers' money, and then block them from watching the games on television unless they paid more money?

You're a person after John Roberts' heart!

[karynnj]

189. Control freaks like Kerry????

Because he wants people to have more options. People are now caught between the NFL, an obviously not regulated monopoly and the cable companies, which are local monopolies. Kerry's actions are consistent with all the anti-trust laws and the view that where monopolies are allowed to exist they should be regulated - as the local phone companies were and are.

You do realize that both the NFL and cable companies are in multiple states. The FCC does have jurisdiction over cable companies and the FTC deals with companies that have business crossing state boundaries.

Are you against all regulation of companies by the federal government? (PS It sounds like you are a conservative libertarian, not a Democrat.)

[w4rma]

107. Nice. On the surface this may look like a simple problem with a game, but it goes much farther. (nt)

[Orwellian_Ghost]

110. Ah important work there

I remeber getting an e-mail from T. Kennedy about legislation he was moving on that would make Springfield, Mass. the "official" town of the Simpson's or some such thing.

Hey let's get to the coliseum before Rome burns!!

There's Nero!!

[ProSense]

116. Yes, it is! n/t

[Breeze54]

112. Are you all really that blind??? He's picking a big target to fight the FCC!!!!

You should be cheering instead of being snarky!!

I can't believe you don't get it!!

:wtf:

[babylonsister]

119. BRAVA, Breeze! This does add fuel to that fire! nt

[WildEyedLiberal]

122. They "don't get it" because it's Kerry

I guarantee if this was Gore or some other DU idol making a stink about the NFL Network, there would be maybe 1/10 the amount of snark and blind ignorance as seen on this thread. Because he was the 2004 candidate he can never do anything good ever again - even if it's something that, coming from anyone else, would garner endless accolades.

Pure, unadulterated foolishness.

[ProSense]

125. Kerry did something

Damn him!

Why doesn't he let other Senators get a chance to do something so they can get credit for doing something?

Why is he doing anything anyway?

He's not my Senator, but this thing that he is doing is not important!

He is irrelevant, and no one listens to him anyway, but he should not do anything else until he single-handedly ends the war. People are dying! How can he be concerned about media entities blocking games in an attempt to make more money off viewers? Unheard of!

Why isn't he fighting the stolen election? He lost you know, cause he went windsurfing!

_________________


I'm supposed to take people who make comments like these seriously?

Slow night!

[LTR]

127. The NFL Network has nothing to do with the FCC

And while I commend what he's doing to fight them (unless it's all just posturing) the FCC has no jurisdiction over what the NFL Network does.

[robcon]

137. Nonsense, Breeze54. Utter nonsense.

Got any evidence???? I didn't think so.

It's just pandering to the "cheap seats" of politics.

[Breeze54]

196. BS! He got ABC to broadcast the game for all of New England!

Why were NH and NY and VT, ME, RI being shut out?

GREED!!

The NFL Commissioner decided to put it on CBS & NBC....NOT KERRY!

And that isn't what Kerry requested. He was fighting for his constituents... ME!

I don';t have cable TV and I would have had to pay to see that game! Fuck that!

I'm glad he spoke up!

[onenote]

162. can you explain what Kerry's intervention in the NFL situation has to do with the FCC

Please?

[ProSense]

165. Here:

Congressmen Seek End To NFL Network Carriage Dispute

LA Times to Congress, FCC: Butt out of baseball

John Kerry Saves Baseball!

The Senate Commerce Committee has jurisdiction over issue related to the Sports Broadcasting Act. Kerry is Chairman of the committee with oversight responsibility for this.

[onenote]

171. I'll try again: how does Kerry's "targeting" the NFL "pick a fight with the FCC"?

Which is what the post I was responding to (at the beginning of this subthread) claims.

Kerry isn't picking a fight with the FCC. The FCC has nothing to do with the squabble between the NFL Network and various cable operators. Also, for what its worth, the FCC has nothing to do with the Sports Broadcasting Act, which is not part of the Communications Act and which, while arguably within the secondary jurisdiction of the Commerce COmmittee, is and always has been primarily a matter falling within the jurisdiction of the Judiciary Committee. This is because the Sports Broadcasting Act creates an exemption to the antitrust laws and when it comes to matters involving the antitrust laws, the Commerce Committee's jurisdiction gives way to the Judiciary Committee.

Frankly, I completely understand why Kerry has gotten involved (as have other elected officials at both the federal and state levels). ANd I'm glad that Kerry seems to understand that the source of the problem is the NFL, not the cable and satellite companies. However, the best thing would be for all of the elected officials to butt out, even if it means disappointing their constituents. Elected officials have no business demanding, pressuring or, worst of all, requiring, that an "editor" distribute particular content to the public, whether that editor is the person that decides what goes into a newspaper or magazine or is the operator of a cable television system deciding which channels/programs it is going to distribute over its facilities.

[LTR]

126. Why do our senators feel the need to waste time with such bullshit?

Hey, I'm a football fan, but come on! This is an NFL issue.

And I wish these clowns would spend as much valuable time and energy on other things, such as getting out of Iraq, the economy, government corruption, etc. This is frivilous shit.

Hey, I'd love to see the game too, and it's pretty shitty that it's on a network that most people can't watch. But the NFL is a private entity, and it is what it is.

Perhaps this kind of buffoonery is the reason Kerry lost in 2004. Kerry needs to pull that giant stick out of his ass and do something important for once. This guy used to have a spine, when he was protesting the Vietnam War. Now he's whining about a football game. Fuckin' career politicians.

[ProSense]

129. "But the NFL is a private entity, and it is what it is."

The NFL gets tax subsidies. Kerry took up a similar issue with MLB and here is the outcome.

Perhaps you need to know what you're talking about!

[smoogatz]

187. Got a link?

If the NFL's getting federal tax subsidies, Google appears not to know about it. MLB's realtionship to the feds is a different story, because they have a unique situtation vis-a-vis federal anti-trust law due to Federal Baseball Club of Baltimore, Inc. v. National Baseball Clubs, a 1922 supreme court ruling.

[ProSense]

191. Here

I. Antitrust Exemption

The Sports Broadcasting Act was passed in 1961 specifically to reverse a district court ruling2 that the NFL's sale of a games package to a television network violated § 1 of the Sherman Antitrust Act. See generally, U.S. Football League v. National Football League, 842 F.2d 1335, 1346-47 (2d Cir. 1988)
(discussing history of agreements between the NFL and the major television networks and history of the SBA). The SBA exempts the sale of certain broadcast rights from the antitrust laws:

PDF

TESTIMONY OF JEFFREY PASH, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT,
NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE
BEFORE THE
SENATE COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
NOVEMBER 14, 2006

<....

Television Policy and the 1961 Statute

The 1961 Act was passed because Congress recognized that without it, many sports teams and their fans would be unable to make effective use of television. For example, in the absence of a single-network package with equally-shared revenues, several NFL teams may well have ceased operations due to their inability to obtain sufficient exposure and revenue from television. Under the Sports Broadcasting Act, the NFL has created the most pro-consumer television plan in sports today. The NFL has maintained its commitment to broadcast television even while the league has grown from 12 teams in 1960 to 32 teams today, and even though network television has experienced dramatic changes and prime time entertainment programming has seen its ratings erode as a result of competition from cable, satellite and other options. Although the 1961 Act applies equally to all sports leagues, no other league today has a remotely similar commitment to broadcast television.

In the 1990’s, Congress directed the FCC to study, among other matters, the NFL’s operations under the 1961 statue. The FCC’s final report in 1994 found that the NFL’s television policies were consistent with the public interest and recommended no amendments to limit the application of the 1961 Act.

Far from moving away from broadcast television, the NFL’s current agreements have served to strengthen our relationship with broadcast television. We have for example instituted a new policy of “flexible scheduling,” under which teams will be able to “play their way” onto our national broadcast on Sunday night on NBC. This upcoming Sunday will mark the first time that flexible scheduling will be used to substitute a more attractive match-up. The game between the Denver Broncos and San Diego Chargers for first place in the AFC West will be moved from a Sunday afternoon telecast window to Sunday night, where it will be broadcast free to the entire country, rather than simply to certain regions.

link

Commerce Committee Jurisdiction

7.97 The widespread popularity of television in the 1950's generated an increasing number of communications issues, and although the subcommittee continued to consider problems presented by radio, telephone, and telegraph communications, television-related questions attracted the attention of the subcommittee. Between 1958 and 1968 the bulk of the records of the Subcommittee on Communications relate to such issues as color television programming, sports broadcasting, subscription or pay television, political broadcasting, allocation of television channel frequencies, liquor and cigarette advertising on TV, crime and violence on TV, educational television programming and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting (CPB), and the Community Antenna Television System (CATV).

link

More here

For future reference.

[smoogatz]

192. Maybe I'm missing it, but I see nothing here that indicates the NFL

gets federal tax subsidies. Yes, they appear to have issues before congress (who deosn't?), but it appears to be incorrect to suggest that they're federally subsidized. So the poster who said the NFL is a private entity is essentially correct.

[tuckessee]

128. Get your priorities straight, Kerry-Boy!!

How about doing something about important & urgent issues.

Stop ass-kissing the "haves" and do something for the "have-nots".

Fer crissakes, quit monkeying around and organize an airlift to deliver a friggin' pro team into the Miami-Dade area of South Florida!!!!

They desperately need your help, Mr. Senator.

[Le Taz Hot]

133. "Threatens Senate hearings . . . "

Isn't it nice that there are no pressing problems in the nation today? What a wanker he is.

[Hippo_Tron]

134. Kerry does a lot of good things, this just happens to be the one that gets media attention

Which is giving DUers the perception that this is the only thing he does.

[robcon]

136. Kerry should withdraw his statement.

He threatens to hold hearings ONLY IF his beloved Patriots aren't shown on national TV!!!! That's abuse of power, IMO.

"...without access to Saturday’s game, I will ask the Senate Commerce Committee to hold hearings on how the emergence of premium sports channels are impacting the consumer"

He should hold hearings - or not hold hearings. The showing of one game should have nothing to do with it.

[blogslut]

139. Last night, at the big family thang

I was able to sneak this one in under the radar. My sister's family, technically. Kind folks, but republicans through and through. Also, football fanatics. Me, I don't know jack about football.

So, as a couple of uncles are grilling meat on the BBQ, I bring it up. Only, I do it all sneaky-like. I tell them, "Say, did you hear about the Patriot game? How, it's only going to be shown on pay channels?"

"Yeah. It sucks. They always do crap like that - the NFL. Show the game for free locally and make anyone else pay." they sez

So, then I sez "Well, this time it's got a couple of Senators pissed. Dudes are talking about holding hearings over the matter."

"Really?" - they ask

"Yeah. They say they're sick of the NFL's greed. Think that everybody should be able to watch playoff games." sez me

"Heh heh. Good for them" - sez they

True story.

[Neshanic]

140. I love the people here going after Kerry on this. They think this is a stagnant issue.

So the writers are on strike and the big football game can't be seen. Jesus, how are those two connected?

If someone told you that Monday Night Football would not be on free broadcast television 10 years ago, they would of called you a nut. Oh, but now it's not on free braodcast television, it's on a Disney sister network on a system that you have to PAY for. No biggie, just the incremental pushes to get more and more that is worth watching on broadcast transfered to cable, leaving free broadcast TV to go the way of the AM radio, and we all know how that turned out.

The ultimate goal of the broadcasters and cable networks not affliated with broadcast TV is to have you pay incrementally for shows that are popular. You devotees of "Lost", not only are you going to have to pony up in the future for a popular show like it, you will also have to have an iPod or cable. Free broadcast TV is non-starter in the big revenue picture, and you will not only be paying a monthly fee for the basic, or expanded basic, or premium service, you will in the future pay an extra fee for a popular show that will not be on broadcast TV.

Don't worry though, the TV religious nuts will still get to pump shit into your house, no charge, as the Cable choice plan is being fought tooth and nail by the cable and media companies.

These are the things the writers are fighting for. That revenue stream of the future, "you pay/you see" plan is so huge, and will be indoctrinated into the culture so it will be a normal thing, the writers have it all on the line, and the networks,MSM, and movie gang know it.

A future of free HDTV over the air broadcast with shit to watch, and a lineup of cable you pay for with surcharges for shows that really are good is coming sooner than you think.

The NFL network, after the contracts expire with the broadcast networks will be the ONLY network that will have Pro football. Then you can bitch about how Kerry did nothing or is being a grandstander after you shell out 400 bucks for a "basic" football packqage.

[robcon]

141. I think your post is phony.

You know very well, I assume, that SUNDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL is now broadcast free, while Monday night is on ESPN.

Are you saying the viewer is impacted negatively when the Sunday and Monday night games are flip-flopped on channels? Or, as I suspect, are you being a phony?

When you wrote (knowingly, IMO, that you were showing half the story): "If someone told you that Monday Night Football would not be on free broadcast television 10 years ago, they would of called you a nut." you were being very coy. And dishonest.

[Neshanic]

144. What is your point? Monday night football is now only available to people that get ESPN

Sunday night football is on an entirely different network, which sooner than you think will show the games on a possibly retooled MSNBC/CNBC Sunday night lineup. It's not going to be free forever. That's the point.

[robcon]

146. "An entirely different network" How stupid do you think people are?

Are you saying that the viewers who saw Monday Night Football on ABC can't find Sunday Night Football on NBC????

The rest of your post is complete fabrication/speculation.

Kerry has no right to threaten an industry: if his team isn't on network TV he'll hold Senate hearings. Awful. Petty. Not very statesmanlike.

[politicasista]

147. Who is more statesman like than Kerry?

Name them and include presidential candidates (if you have one).

As I have said, I think this thread is more about dumping on Kerry than football, and the fact that a preferred candidate or liberal didn't make a big issue out of this.

[robcon]

149. Clinton, Edwards, Biden (maybe Obama) are all more statesmanlike than Kerry.

No pandering to New England Patriots fans. No threats to industries that don't cower to Lord Kerry's preference in football teams.

Kerry is petty.

[politicasista]

150. Using presidential candidates to bash the senator and justify your point?

:rofl:


I doubt that those you lionize would appreciate you dissing Kerry to promote them.

I see that is what this is all about. If those candidates were pushing this or something similary, you would be lauding them. Your intention is just to bash Kerry. And that shows that he has is more class and integrity in his bare hand and has done more for regular people than those that slam him here ever will.


And I see you missed this thread, but don't let the facts get in the way of your complaining.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2527021


As I said, this thread seems more about Kerry than football.

[robcon]

158. Huh?? What do I care what candidates think of Kerry?

It may be news to you, but my opinion of Kerry is formed by ME, and I don't think "the candidates" care much whether my opinion of Kerry suffers by comparison to them.

Your "facts" (in the link) exclude the arrogant, self-serving, pandering priority Kerry put on his beloved Patriots being on national TV. If he didn't get his way, he threatened to hold Senate hearings!!! That's abuse of power, pure and simple.

[ProSense]

142. Excellent point, consider MSNBC:

February 22, 2007

Cablevision has exclusive carriage deal with MSNBC…

Over the past few months ICN has been keeping tabs on an odd development regarding cable news delivery in the New York City area. During that time ICN received several queries from befuddled readers and/or MSNBC viewers who wanted or were being forced to switch to Verizon FiOS but only found MSNBC available via Cablevision. Verizon, for example, has rolled out FiOS for every major cable news channel (FNC, CNN, HLN, CNBC, etc..) with one notable exception, MSNBC, in New Jersey and Long Island.

ICN has heard from several individuals in and out of the “industry” that Cablevision holds an exclusive carriage agreement with MSNBC. All other potential MSNBC providers, like Verizon, are therefore frozen out in areas where Cablevision operates. It is not known how or why Cablevision got an exclusive carriage deal for MSNBC but not other NBCU properties or why NBCU would even grant Cablevision an exclusive on MSNBC and MSNBC alone. This is a real head scratcher. Lots of unanswered questions. How long does Cablevision have the exclusive? Why did this happen? The bottom line is if you want MSNBC on Verizon FiOS in any area Cablevision operates, you’re out of luck.

[Neshanic]

145. Excellent example. The baby steps that sneek up. FCC asleep as usual.

[NoodleyAppendage]

148. Senate Hearings for the NFL, but only a "strongly worded letter" for the DSM. WTF?

Kerry gets all forceful and sh*t when it comes to New Englanders getting to watch a football game, but when it comes to investigating the BFEE or the war he wimps out. Typical.

J

[robbedvoter]

152. Dude, where's my vote from 2004? (the other John too). I laughed at Nader and MBA

but at least The Cadaver has nothing else better to do.... The things DU gets excited about...

[Thothmes]

153. Who gives a bloody damed if its televised or not, its a game for Christ's sake.

[BurningDog]

154. This is a joke.

I'm a huge NFL fan that doesn't have the NFL network, but its not the place of the federal government to decide which games we should get to see. There are 16 games every weekend, there is no way for all of them to be nationally televised. The local markets are getting the game on network tv, thats all you're promised to see every weekend.

If Senate hearings on premium cable channels need to be held, then do it, don't threaten to do it based on whether or not your team gets to be be on national TV.

[ProSense]

156. No it isn't

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2528313&mesg_id=2528313">see.

[SweetThingy]

155. What a waste of time and money

John Kerry you are cut. Dumbass Big Brother facist.

[ProSense]

157. "Dumbass Big Brother facist."

What's a facist?

You have no idea what you're talking about!

[robcon]

159. Dumbass and Big Brother is correct. Fascist is mis-spelled and misapplied.

n/t

[ProSense]

160. I'm sorry that you don't understand what playing by the rules mean,

and would prefer Kerry to turn a blind eye to a blatant attempt to get more money out of football fans.

If that's what you're into, then here's the party for you.

[robcon]

168. It's Kerry that's not playing by the rules.

Using Congressional power to attempt to coerce an organization to show the game he wants to see is blatant attempted intimidation.

Maybe we could get John to threaten a Congressional hearing if Bruce Springsteen's next concert (or some other entertainment event that John likes) isn't nationally televised.

The NFL owns the games - not John Kerry. Bruce Springsteen owns his services, not John Kerry.

Kerry's egotistical attempted intimidation is scary, and your support of that attempt under some "they'll get more money someday" is pathetic.

[ProSense]

169. Like I said,

you have no clue what you're talking about.

The NFL gets taxpayer money, Bruce Springsteen does not.

[LittleClarkie]

179. If it were the only thing he was doing, perhaps. But it is one of many things

He's multi-tasking. But be assured this isn't all he's doing. This is just all that's getting reported.

[MyNameGoesHere]

166. Is this really necessary?

Senator Kerry is showing a gross lack of judgment on this issue. I know it stinks to pats fans, but it really is a partisan position to the MAX. This is on the same level as that rupuke guy wanting to build a bridge to no where. It's a damn sporting event. This just looks, well bad.

[ProSense]

167. "it really is a partisan position to the MAX." Really?

Tell that to Specter (who is mentioned in the OP article too, btw) and the other Repubs trying to ensure it doesn't blow up in their faces.

It doesn't look bad, it's oversight.

[MyNameGoesHere]

170. To get a godamn game changed ? Bullshit.

I would be more supportive of a bill to totally remove all sporting events from the public airways and make them all pay for view. How about a bill for more public education media? Hmm. No it has to be a frivolous football game. And yes he is ONLY doing this because he is from Mass. If it was some other game do you think he really gives a rats ass? That is partisan.

[ProSense]

172. No, it's not "bullshit."

From your comment, I see you have zero interest in understanding what's going on.

You just want to complain.

[politicasista]

173. As mentioned above, if this was someone other than Kerry, this would get accolades

The bashing of good dems here gets tiresome. Kerry must have done something right. :)

[MyNameGoesHere]

174. yes i understand

the big bad NFL is trying to make people "buy" a service that is generally "free" And pats fans are going ballistic because they think they have some kind of right to tell the NFL what it can and cannot charge for. So Senator Kerry, A Mass native and Pats fan, thinks he should change it. Well where the fuck was he when i wanted to see my favorite teams? Oh? really? he didn't have a partisan interest then did he?

[ProSense]

177. You still don't get it!

the big bad NFL is trying to make people "buy" a service that is generally "free" And pats fans are going ballistic because they think they have some kind of right to tell the NFL what it can and cannot charge for.

As long as the NFL enjoys antitrust exemption, they'll be subjected to oversight. They can give it up if they want to.

[MyNameGoesHere]

194. have you looked around?

The NFL is THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN. Of course they are a monopoly. When another company provides a similar product then open your yap about anti-trust. It is THEIT game, clearly stated every time you watch a game. This Game is the sole property of the National Football League. What about that do you NOT understand? Why is congress NOT trying to pressure Apple to make the Iphone Available to ALL carriers? No congressional hearings on that are there? What is the Senators stand on that? Please your Pats are going to preempt NBC scheduling because some bullies decided to "FORCE" the networks and the NFL to capitulate. Nothing like gov. dictating programming. next on the table, reeducation programming.

[LittleClarkie]

178. No. It's not. Because it's happening to all of us

The fans are being held hostage in every state by the NFL. If he can do something in his state, then maybe it will filter to others.

[trogdor]

183. You can all come to my place.

We get both MSG and YES, and one of them has got to be showing the Pats/Giants game.

Edit: Bring your own beer.

Edit2: Oops. No MSG/YES. Maybe it's on CBS. I'll go check.

Edit3: Nope. I'm SOL. :-(

[BushOut06]

185. That's all well and good, but what about the NFL Sunday Ticket?

That's only available on DirecTV, it's not even an option for cable networks to pick it up if they wanted to.

There are plenty of premium channels that I can't get on cable.

[Marr]

186. Wow, I'm overwhelmed. This must be what he meant by 'fighting for you'.

Christ, could there be a bigger waste of time? What a pathetic party establishment we have. It's almost as if they're *trying* to create a cynical populace.

[ProSense]

188. Yes, that,

this and this.

Though, evidently, you don't realize or appreciate it.

Is Kerry your Senator?

[LittleClarkie]

190. Looks like he won

According to yahoo news.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-patriots-giants-tv&prov=ap&type=lgns

[Beelzebud]

193. Bullshit like this is why I have lost faith in the Democrats in Washington...

[mdmc]

195. I saw that game on the tv

:kick:
cause it was a good game