Racial Undercurrent Is Seen in Clinton Campaign - Washington Post

[helderheid]

By Chris Cillizza And Shailagh Murray
PLAYERS and PLAYERS
Sunday, December 23, 2007; Page A02

It has unfolded mostly under the radar. But an important development in the 2008 Democratic battle may be the building backlash among African Americans over comments from associates of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton that could be construed as jabs at Sen. Barack Obama's race.

These officials, including Clinton aides and prominent surrogates, have raised questions or dropped references about Obama's position on sentencing guidelines for crack vs. powder cocaine offenses; on his handgun control record; and on his admitted use of drugs as a youth. The context was always Obama's "electability." But the Illinois senator's campaign advisers said some African American leaders detect a pattern, and they believe it could erode Clinton's strong base of black support.

Here's a sample of how the issue is playing out:

From the "Tom Joyner Morning Show," Dec. 14:

Tom Joyner: "Yeah, man, they are coming after you now. So the story about the Clinton campaign putting out this statement not to vote for Barack Obama because he used drugs, and then yesterday I understand that she apologized and the campaign worker quit."

MORE >>>>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/22/AR2007122201762.html

[rodeodance]

1. and the Wp PLAYS THE GAME OF ROVE SPECULATION.

[LostinVA]

2. Oh brother

[Alexander]

3. This is no surprise. Look at the postings of some Hillbots here.

Some of them obviously live in lily-white land and want it to stay that way.

[fujiyama]

4. I agree. Some of her supporters are really awful.

[Bitwit1234]

5. So this is going to backfire on Obama

when he starts to say that Bill and Hillary Clinton are racists...but I suppose when you are messing yourself because you are in an almost 20% deficit across the country you have to manufacture some kind of conterversary....race wasn't it...cause everyone knows that the Clintons are not now and never have been racist. Which is more than you can say about Obama and his sexism..which reared it's ugly head again when he refused to vote to sanction and improve laws against rapist....

[Alexander]

7. Backfire? On the guy who is winning Iowa and tied with HRC in New Hampshire?

Please. :eyes:

The article points out that many of Hillary's supporters might be racist. It says nothing about the Clintons racial views. And you can certainly tell some of the ones here at DU are, if you look in GD : P.

But I guess you need to read things that simply aren't there.

[niceypoo]

27. This is pathetic

This whole, "Clinton supporters are racists," tack is fucking pathetic. If this is what Obama's campaign is turning into, if he gets the nomination, he is toast.

[Kahuna]

30. Says you.

I love the threats and pronouncements by Hillary supporters. How arrogant they sound as if they hold the power to affect anything. It's really rather mind-boggling.

[niceypoo]

33. "says you," is a pretty lame stance on anything...

And I am not a Hillary supporter by any measure

Oh, and just so you are aware for future reference.....

LOGICAL FALLACIES 101:

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact, or claim, about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:


Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes an attack on person A.
Therefore A's claim is false.

[Alexander]

39. Your logic is in a sad and sorry state.

Ironic that you claim to point out "logical fallacies" when you made one yourself.

I never said all Clinton supporters were racists.

I said some are, and they tend to be the most vocal.

GD : P is evidence enough of what I said. Also, Bill Shaheen.

A pity you apparently never took logic classes. Or maybe you did and you slept through them. :eyes:

[Alexander]

38. I said SOME Clinton supporters are racists. Can't you read?

[JackORoses]

52. he's winning New Hampshire now, too :)

[dkf]

9. Obama isn't saying Hillary's campaign was racist...

but I thought Shaheen's statement was.

It is one thing to call Obama on using drugs, which he admitted to, not unlike a whole bunch of people including Mr Didn't Inhale, but its another thing to call him a Drug Dealer (!!!???!!) That was BEYOND THE PALE and I am pissed on behalf of Obama.

[Kahuna]

18. He'll never say it. But blacks are not stupid. We seem to have very

strong bull shit detectors and can detect it a mile off. It won't be long before blacks begin to put two and two together and realize the racial under-current of the attacks against Obama. Hey! I've even begun to question it.

[niceypoo]

26. I knew it would come down to this, eventually

It seems that Obama fans can't tout him for his strengths, instead they act like hypersensitive little crybabies at every little slight and I knew it was only a matter of time before we started hearing the, 'your racists,' line. I feel sorry for Obama. He is such a great candidate, but his supporters seem to be going off the deep end and turning the DU and the Democratic party into a sewer. Edwards is starting to look like the only rational choice.

[Kahuna]

29. Whatever. My take is that when blacks were overwhelmingly supporting

Hillary we were their best friends and Bill was still the first black president. Now that some black support is drifting towards Obama racist attacks by Team Clinton are fair game.

[niceypoo]

35. There have been no "racist attacks" by 'Team Clinton'

If Obama fans are this hypersensitive now, I can only imagine how they handle the general election if Obama gets the nomination.

[Kahuna]

50. 'Harold, call me.' The Clintons are using the same tact IMO. nt

[madeline_con]

6. How does drug use equal racist?

You meant racist, not "racial", right?

How is the drug use comment racist?

Are you suggesting that only certain ethnicities use drugs, or did I completely misunderstand what yuo wrote? :shrug:

[Alexander]

8. Criticizing Obama on crack vs. cocaine sentencing is pretty racist.

Especially since more whites use crack, yet more blacks are in prison for it.

Why punish people extra for crack, unless there is an ulterior racist motive? It's the same drug as cocaine!

[madeline_con]

14. I thought the criticism was for HIS use, of coke, but it's

about his differing views where crack and powder are concerned? :shrug:

My bad.

[Alexander]

17. It's both. Both are racist. Shaheen accused Obama of selling drugs.

Obama already admitted to using cocaine a long time ago.

It was Bill Shaheen who mentioned that Obama will be asked if he was a drug dealer, which is nothing more than a sleazy attempt at insinuating that Obama was a drug dealer.

I believe nothing more needs to be said about the crack vs. cocaine discussion.

[madeline_con]

22. The crack vs powder cocaine "discussion" is one of the main

points of the thing, IMO. But we need not discuss if you'd rather not. :hi:

[Alexander]

23. I'm perfectly happy to discuss how racist it is.

Can you provide a reasonable explanation for why there has been a disparity in crack vs. cocaine sentencing guidelines?

I can. The authors and supporters of the guidelines are racists and want to keep black people in jail.

Any thoughts?

[madeline_con]

28. My thoughts are complete agreement. n/t

[Alexander]

41. Excellent. Good to see we're on the same page.

[helderheid]

11. I didn't write this - WP did

[madeline_con]

13. Cool. Gotcha. n/t :)

[dkf]

12. Did you not catch that Clinton's NH Chair falsely accused Obama of selling drugs?

It was completely out of left field and absolutely IRRESPONSIBLE.

This is the McCain Black Baby smear of 2007.

[Alexander]

15. Good point. Nobody accused Mr. "I Didn't Inhale" of selling pot.

Even though his own half-brother claimed he had a "nose like a Hoover".

[madeline_con]

16. I'm guilty of not reading the link.

:blush:

EDITED TO ADD: Not that it had all that much info once I DID read it. :(

[journalist3072]

19. They did NOT accuse Obama of selling drugs. One person pontificated on whether

if Obama is the nominee for the general election, would the Republican nominee ask this question of him during the general election campaign: Mr. Obama, you've admitted to drug use. Did you ever sell drugs.

That's the basic crux of what the person said could happen to Obama in the general campaign.

And I think it's a legitimate question. If Obama wants to be the nominee, he needs to be prepared for what the Republicans will throw at him, and they will throw the kitchin sink at him.

And before you go accusing me of being a racist for saying I thin it's a legitimate question, let me save you the time. I am an African-American myself, and I don't support Obama.

[Alexander]

20. And who asked Bill Clinton if he ever sold dime bags of weed?

Nobody, even though like Obama, Clinton admitted to having "tried" it.

Besides, it's pretty obvious that criticizing Obama on crack vs. cocaine sentencing IS racist.

And I'm surprised you aren't utterly disgusted by many of the GD : P posts supporting Hillary. There are at least two posters over there who make blatantly racist statements regularly and get away with it.

[Kahuna]

21. No pontification in politics is ever accidental my dear.

Most of us who've been around a while know that. Even young Chris Cilliza knows it and he's only 30 years old.

[sendero]

25. When did you stop beating your wife?

Legitimate question MY ASS.

[NorthernSpy]

40. sorry, but that fools no one...

Look, we all know Hillary's people were trying to do. We can put two and two together. It's not rocket science.

[journalist3072]

10. Big red flag: the WaPo cites Tom Joyner's interview with Barack Obama

Tom Joyner has been pimping for Barack Obama ad nauseum, and encouraging people to vote for him simply because he's black.

Tom Joyner had Rep. Kendrid Meek on his show. Meek has endorsed Sen. Clinton. The first question he posed to Rep. Meek: "There's a perfectly qualified Black man running for President. Why aren't you supporting Sen. Obama?"

When Tom Joyner had Michelle Obama on his show a while back, he asked her "What is up with Black women?" Meaning, Tom Joyner thinks there's something wrong with African-American women (like me) who don't support Obama.

[Skip Intro]

24. right - the basis of the story is Obama's camp's speculation

zzz

[undeterred]

31. Some people expect white women to support Hillary

but the assumption is probably not as strong. I don't think we can afford to make this election about anything but the crisis the country is in, and whoever is the best candidate to fix it.

[helderheid]

32. Well said. I am a white woman and I think Edwards is the most qualified this round.

[journalist3072]

34. Well, I for one, don't expect white women to automatically support Sen. Clinton

I think that would be foolish. People have minds of their own.

For me personally, elections always boil down to one thing: who best represents my interests and values?

That's why, as an African-American, I'm so disturbed by the Obama camp using Tom Joyner's show, to get the African-American community to vote for him simply because he's black. When Obama was on Tom Joyner's show, he said "this is a once in a lifetime opportunity." Meaning, he believes that from now until eternity, he will be the ONLY via Black candidate for President, so if we don't take this opportunity and elect him, we will NEVER see a Black President. I thought that was might arrogant of him.

Also, I was put off by his appearance on Tavis Smiley's radio program. Tavis Smiley asked Barack Obama about the notion that some people apparently have, that if the African-American community was supporting Obama the way it supported Rev. Jesse Jackson during his run for the Presidency, then Sen. Clinton would "have to pack her bags and go home." (Tavis Smiley's words). The disturbing part is that Obama agreed with that, saying "There's no doubt that if we consolidate the Black vote, this would be a different race." I almost flipped! "Consolidate" the Black vote, Barack? In other words, he wants us to engage in group think and just blindly and loyally get behind him.

As an African-American, I do not feel that Tom Joyner (or the Barack Obama camp) has done a good service to my community, by simply asking people to vote for him because he's African-American. I think it's done a disservice to my community.

[MadMaddie]

37. I agree with you....Tom Joyner has fallen into the old

well he's black so we are obligated to vote for him.

I haven't made up my mind but Obama lost a ton of respect from me when he decided to tour with the homophobic gospel singers. That to me shows a lack of consideration for gay Americans who would have voted for him because he was touting the message of hope. The old saying, "You are judged by the company you keep", is true today.

I also don't like the fact that he is pandering to the overtly religious groups.......just not liking it one bit.

Hillary - it would be one thing if one of her peeps made a stupid statement and they were let go, but now it's has become a pattern of attacks against Obama....

I am not happy with either one of them.

[NorthernSpy]

43. Obama's campaign let an "ex-gay" gospel singer provide the musical interlude...

... at a campaign stop.


In response, there was outright race-baiting against Obama here on DU. I remember one thread that was particularly vile.


I guess anyone claiming to be "ex-gay" is to be publicly shunned and ostracized, or else.

[MadMaddie]

51. It's not the fact that he is ex-gay it's the fact that he is now

ostracizing the gay community that he once belonged to and equating us/them as living a life of sin.

Fuck him and the other so called Gospel Christian singers and religious nuts that are the biggest hypocrits besides the Rethuglicans. Guarantee in a couple years we will hear about how straight he is....:sarcasm:

And I am guessing that there are hundreds of thousands of Amazing Gospel groups that are not spouting messages of hate. Is Obama's camp that lazy that they couldn't find someone else? Or were they baiting the homophobic to come out?

[NorthernSpy]

42. oh gawd, not this shit again!

As I recall, you started a bunch of threads making this claim that Joyner and Obama told people to vote for Obama because Obama is black.

When people told you that you'd gotten that wrong, you screamed profanities and abuse at them.


Is that going to happen this time too?

[journalist3072]

44. Grow up and look at the evidence...I don't let people on DU tell me how or what to think

First of all, I want to know: Who, in your twisted mind, are "a bunch of people" here on DU? You mean the Obama apologists who will make up any excuse in the book for him?

I look at the facts, and the facts are that Tom Joyner and Barack Obama have told people to vote for him because he's Black.

If you want to ignore the reality around you, I can't stop you. Wallow in your ignorance, if you want.

My "claims," as you call them, are backed up by actual quotes by Tom Joyner and Barack Obama.

[NorthernSpy]

46. yes, folks: it's this shit again!

:banghead:

[journalist3072]

49. If anyone knows shit when they see it, it's you....because you spew it 24/7

[creeksneakers2]

36. Worst trash I've seen in weeks. Maybe longer

The theme of the article is about black leaders detecting racism from the Clintons but only two of the quotes have anything to do with race, one from some publication in New York I've never heard of and the other is from a single columnist at the Boston Globe.

Obama isn't saying racism. The article is just selected quotes that follow each other but aren't necessarily linked to each other.

If a black candidate runs at all there will inevitably be some people who will say the candidate is being treated unfairly because of his race. There's nothing to back up the claim here except for a statement by a Clinton campaign staffer that resulted in his termination.

If the Post had the desire, they could find comments from Obama people that could be twisted to look sexist. If one read all the columns in the US one could probably find a couple that said Hillary is the victim of Obama sexism. What does that prove?

[NorthernSpy]

45. so why is Hillary losing support among black voters?

From The Nation:

BLACK VOTERS LIKE OBAMA...
The big news in today's Washington Post/ABC poll is that black voters like Barack Obama. He now leads Hillary Clinton among black voters by nine points, a huge shift from last month, when the same poll found black voters preferred Clinton by a whopping 40 percent.

Reporters had jumped on that early gap to write speculative stories about Obama's supposed trouble with the "black vote." The Washington Post ran a front page article last month under the headline "Obama's Appeal to Blacks Remains an Open Question," citing Clinton's "3 to 1" edge among black Democrats. (Never mind that everything is an "open question" when the candidate hasn't even announced yet.)

Then this month, The New York Times offered a front page news flash under the headline, "So Far, Obama Can't Take Black Vote for Granted." The article quoted Debra J. Dickerson's claim that "Obama isn't black" in an American racial context, and then explored why "some black voters" are "so uneasy" about Obama. One barber explained that Obama might not be right for the Presidency because he was not "born, raised, bred, fed in America." Whatever. That kind of talk has been shredded by The Nation's Patricia Williams, among others. Now these new poll numbers should remove one crutch reporters were using to write premature stories about how black voters supposedly did not like Obama "enough."

The poll has already been shooting around the blogopshere. Oliver Willis, who has written about Obama and the "black vote," argues the new poll is a reminder that the "arguments in the media and academia about Obama's 'blackness' are just kind of nonsense noise in the real world." Over at MyDD, Chris Bowers thinks that with these numbers, if Obama "continues to rise among African-Americans while maintaining his young, progressive, netroots base, it may only be a matter of three or four months before he catches Clinton in national polls."

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters?pid=170194

[creeksneakers2]

47. Perhaps because Obama is a great candidate

It doesn't say anywhere in there that the Clintons are perceived as racist. It also doesn't make the racist assumption that all those blacks are voting for Obama just because he's black.

The post poll that had Hillary up by 40% over Obama was probably an outlier. Other polls showed Hillary with a big lead but not that much. Obama caught up and took the lead. But that's the story in states less populated by blacks too, like New Hampshire. Not by as much, but the common element seems to be the amount of time the voter spends watching Obama.

[Kahuna]

48. IMO, the digs that team Clinton have been taking at Obama..

namely by Bill Shaheen and Bob Kerrey are just as racist and dispicable as the 'Harold, call me,' ads by the Carper team in TN. And believe me, many blacks will begin to connect the dots when the same theme is employed.

It doesn't matter if the candidate personally is racist. I assume that they're probably no more racist than they are really homophobic. The point that many are making is that they are using stereotypical tactics against black candidates. And when they do that they should not be surprised if people assume they are racist.