WOW! Hillary: Rice Convinced Me on Iraq Vote By Saying Cheney Was "Confused" on Authorization Use!

[Dems Will Win]

CONDOLIAR RICE TOLD HILLARY CLINTON THAT "DICK MIGHT HAVE GOTTEN CONFUSED" ABOUT THAT WAR AUTHORIZATION THINGIE

I think this is going to be a huge story, and we can get it going here on DU. E-mail this to every media outlet.

Hillary showed such bad judgement that when she couldn't MAKE UP HER MIND about IRAQ, she turned to CONDOLIAR for guidance! When Hillary asked if the Authorization would be used to put inspectors back in or take us to war as DICK CHENEY was implying, it was Rice who convinced her to vote for the war with these very words: "Yes, that's what it's intended to do. I think Dick might have gotten confused."

And Hillary bought it. About Dick Cheney maybe getting confused about the almighty power she was thinking about giving him!!!!!!!!

THEN TO TOP IT ALL OFF SHE DOES NOT EVEN READ THE N.I.E., AS BOB GRAHAM DID, WHICH STATED IN THE FOOTNOTES THAT THERE HAD NOT BEEN WMD IN IRAQ SINCE 1995!

There are only three conclusions here:

1. Hillary is so damn stupid she believed the neo-cons -- and Hillary is so gullible she thought "Dick might have gotten confused" but then gave him the power to start a war anyway without calling him directly to clear things up.

2. Hillary is a calculating politician running for office, "believing" Rice's claim that Dick Cheney might have gotten "confused" about the Authorization of Force. She is smart and was covering her bases so she could have an excuse if the war turned out badly. There was no way she was going to read that NIE, especially after Graham told her she HAD TO.

3. Hillary made an honest mistake trusting Rice when she was told, "I think Dick might have gotten confused". This allayed her fears that WAR-MONGER Dick Cheney would not take his hand-puppet Bush and our troops to war. This means Hillary has no SHIT DETECTOR BONE IN HER BODY and should be disqualified as a Democratic candidate.

Clinton: Rice linked Iraq vote, inspections
Submitted by Monitor Staff on Fri, 2007-12-21 19:47.

Following up on what Ambassador Richard Holbrooke told us earlier this week regarding Hillary Clinton's vote to authorize the use of military force against Iraq, we asked Sen. Clinton today if it was correct that Colin Powell had persuaded her that the resolution could be a vote to avoid war rather than a vote for war.

She replied: "No, it wasn't Colin Powell. it was Condi Rice. Condi Rice told me specifically when I was still weighing all of the evidence, and I had been to the White House one last time -- I think, if I'm not mistaken, it was Oct. 8 -- and I'd had the whole presentation by the CIA and others and I hadn't asked any questions, I had listened. And I went back to my office, and Condi Rice called me and said, You didn't ask any questions, do you have any questions? I said I only have one: Will you use this authorization to put inspectors back in, so that we can find out whether any of this is true, how much WMD he still has or has reconstituted? She said, Yes, that's what it's intended to do. I think Dick might have gotten confused."

Monitor: And you had no reason to doubt her?

Clinton: "I did not. Because -- certainly I didn't rely on the Bush administration. I did a lot of my own due diligence, I talked to a lot of people in my husband's administration, I talked to Tony Blair, I talked to a lot of sources, and I had the same question: Do you think he still has these kinds of capacities? And the rationale made sense to me. When we got there after the first Gulf War, he was much further advanced in his nuclear program and we knew he had used chemical weapons. When we discovered his nuclear program in '91, the inspectors went in and for seven years dismantled everything that they could find. In '98, he threw the inspectors out, which at least to me raised the possibility that they were getting close to something, and therefore he wanted them out. The Americans and the British bombed every site that he prevented the inspectors from going to that we had a record of, but we had no good intelligence as to what was or wasn't there. And the idea behind any concern about Saddam Hussein was rooted in his personality and his governing philosophy. He was a megalomaniac.

"Putting inspectors back in -- which the United Nations voted for, the Security Council was all in favor of -- was a way to really put some checks and balances to find out what he really did have. What we know now is that Bush had no intention of letting the inspections run their course. But the argument of putting inspectors back in, backed up by force -- because Saddam never did anything that didn't have at least the backup threat of force -- was not on its face totally illegitimate. So I was willing to give him the authority to do that, and he misused the authority."

http://www.yourconcord.com/primaryblog/clinton_rice_linked_iraq_vote_inspections

Whew! So CONDOLIAR said don't worry, "Dick might have gotten confused" about what the Authorization of Force was to be used for, she did not read the NIE and had no reason to doubt that!!!

I need a cigarette, and I don't even smoke...

Please K&R because now we finally know the truth -- Hillary OKed the war because Rice reassured her "Dick might have gotten confused" but now we have found out that Dick wasn't confused at all...

[LostinVA]

1. What creative bolding

[MethuenProgressive]

2. What an amazing attempt at spin.

I didn't rely on the Bush administration. I did a lot of my own due diligence, I talked to a lot of people in my husband's administration, I talked to Tony Blair, I talked to a lot of sources, and I had the same question: Do you think he still has these kinds of capacities? And the rationale made sense to me. When we got there after the first Gulf War, he was much further advanced in his nuclear program and we knew he had used chemical weapons. When we discovered his nuclear program in '91, the inspectors went in and for seven years dismantled everything that they could find. In '98, he threw the inspectors out, which at least to me raised the possibility that they were getting close to something, and therefore he wanted them out. The Americans and the British bombed every site that he prevented the inspectors from going to that we had a record of, but we had no good intelligence as to what was or wasn't there. And the idea behind any concern about Saddam Hussein was rooted in his personality and his governing philosophy. He was a megalomaniac.

"Putting inspectors back in -- which the United Nations voted for, the Security Council was all in favor of -- was a way to really put some checks and balances to find out what he really did have. What we know now is that Bush had no intention of letting the inspections run their course. But the argument of putting inspectors back in, backed up by force -- because Saddam never did anything that didn't have at least the backup threat of force -- was not on its face totally illegitimate. So I was willing to give him the authority to do that, and he misused the authority."

You say:

we went to war because Hillary thought "Dick might have gotten confused"

You think we went to war because of one Senator's vote?
Are you new to this debate?
We need to debate and vote on how to get out of Iraq.
www.thedifferenceoniraq.com
Go read and learn.

[Dhalgren]

Right now we are trying to decide who will make the best president

in this country's worse time of need. These are legitimate issues regarding a candidate's judgment. I cannot support Clinton...

[Richard Steele]

29. "I didn't rely on the B*sh administration". "Condi Rice convinced me". Yeah, that's some SPIN!

[indimuse]

106. Is this post from that Clown station FOX??

Has to be....even the images remind me of their tactics...Fly on the wall are you? Not ONE person here know SHIT what was or was not said...period. So go ahead...speculate. I still say the RW is trying very hard to get Obama the nomination...it's so obvious. hence this post...dizzy...

[niceypoo]

125. The Obama people will literally do or say anything to further their Hillary obsession

Another handful of straws

[Renew Deal]

135. There are two problems with the site you linked

Richardson is not a major candidate. Biden's plan is "endorsed" as well.

Besides all that, Dems Will Win is a great DUer and has been for a long time. he does really in depth work on all kinds of issues. The one hat stands out to me most is the recent replenishment of the draft boards.

[speedoo]

3. If she is being quoted accurately here, I will NEVER vote for her.

Under any conditions.

And if, as a result of my not voting for her, a republican wins the presidency in 2008, so be it. I'll take that chance, but I will not compromise on this. She does not deserve my vote for ANY office.

But I will never, ever vote for this woman again. (I helped vote her into the Senate twice, and she has done nothing, in the foreign policy area, to make me feel good about those votes.)

[Dems Will Win]

6. It was in the Concord Monitor, told directly from Hillary to reporters there.

[Donnachaidh]

10. so basically, Hillary is trying to say someone ELSE made the decision for her?

Sure.sign.of.leadership.qualities -- NOT.

She must be getting tired, what with all the backpedalling she's been doing in the last two weeks. :rofl:

[MethuenProgressive]

33. Nope. "I didn't rely on the Bush administration. I did a lot of my own due diligence."

The OPer is spining a few words, with some success, to stir shit.

[Dems Will Win]

34. She. Did. Not. Read. The. NIE!

She was briefed by an aide who read a summary where the dissenting footnotes DID NOT EXIST.

That's Hillary's idea of due diligence??

[Dems Will Win]

149. kick

[RaleighNCDUer]

105. And then she goes on to say that the 'due diligence' included

consulting with Condi, and NOT reading the NIE.

All this spinning the spin on the spin is getting me dizzy.

[MissDeeds]

23. I agree

For a long time now I have struggled with whether I could bring myself to vote for HRC should she win the nomination. I can't and won't. She has done little to engender trust and confidence and is not the candidate who will carry democratic ideals forward. In the event she wins the nomination, I will write in the candidate of my choice.

[sellitman]

56. Brilliant!

Another vote the Repigs won't have to worry about.


:thumbsdown:

[JMDEM]

61. Right -- Don't you all get it? You HAVE to vote for Hillary. No choice, so shut up. NT

[sellitman]

62. That isn't what I said.

And you know it.

[file83]

141. It's what you said, between the words.

[MissDeeds]

67. Well...

The candidate's name I will write in is John Edwards. You got a problem with that?

[JMDEM]

69. I was being sarcastic. No I don't have a problem with any other candidate. NT

[MissDeeds]

85. No problem

My response wasn't directed to you. :toast:

[sellitman]

76. You are free to vote for whoever you want.

But if John Edwards isn't left as our candidate after the primary and you write in his name in the General election you will be doing the Repigs a valuable service. As long as you are fine with that fact then so be it. If that vote seems ignorant to me I will state that too as fact. Like it or not.

[MissDeeds]

86. If the nominee is Hillary

That will be doing the Republicans a favor. Like it or not.

[sellitman]

113. Not nearly the one you will be doing.

Last I looked she still has a "D" for Democrat after her name. She ain't my choice but if she gets through the primary she is worlds better than Repig. She won't appoint Right Wing Judges for one. Wasting your vote gives the Repigs a freebie. It also draws us closer to a total Right Wing Supreme Court for years to come. You don't want that.

[CatWoman]

146. I don't know why you are even arguing with that asshole logic

some are willing to cut off their noses to spite their faces. What a brilliant fucking "tactic" :nuke:

[niceypoo]

126. I agree, a lot of Obama voters are like Lieberman

Turncoats

[JackORoses]

87. by voting for Hillary in the Primary, you will be doing the Repigs a favor by splintering our Party

[niceypoo]

128. In reality, its the people with the Hillary obsession that are making a sewer of the party

They and their freeper allies

[JackORoses]

133. yes, those who are so obsessed with seeing Hillary be President, that they will sacrifice anything

Including the Democratic Party and the future of a Nation

[guruoo]

95. Now we know why they didn't need Rove around anymore

with so many Dems willing to become agents provocateur for the right.

BTW: Check your inbox.

[TahitiNut]

31. I have no doubt she's being quoted accurately.

It's VERY consistent with how I understand her approach to "decision-making" ... and goes back to the Hillary-Care days. There's really something missing in her core approach - a willingness to kow-tow to the greedy and sociopathic. Maybe it's just a blindness to it. Dunno. It's like she doesn't have her own Inner Compass and tries to position herself at some "equilibrium point" depending on the proximity of the forces around her. Disturbing, to say the least.

[Cha]

39. Very Disturbing..and I thought

she was just a power hungry bush-enabler who held her own council no matter how ambitious and soul destroying that was. I have to mention the lives she helped destroy with her misbegotten war votes, too.

[soothsayer]

4. I think that none of us knows the REAL reason we went into Iraq, and that

it's part of some larger plan that we're not privy to, and probably isn't even in our best interests. According to economic and political cycles, we're due for 4 more years of fascism, so to me that says either Hillary or Obama will win. I love Bill and Hill, but I don't pretend they're not part of the corrupt power structure. Obama is no better, as Indiana is a totally fascist state. BUT once we suffer through the next 4 lousy years, it gets really groovy after that. So hang in there!

[scarletwoman]

8. Obama is from Illinois, not Indiana. (nt)

[Joanne98]

21. Read The Shock Doctrine. It's all in the Iraq chapter!

[Liberal In Texas]

36. Also read "A Pretext For War" by James Bamford.

He explains the machinations behind the the cooking up the fake/bad intelligence to convince the public and the congress to go to war.

Excellently sourced. Bamford is a real treasure.

[Divine Discontent]

52. now you surely know Obama is from Chicago area, he always talks about it

Indiana is very right wing, the most in the midwest, but I'm not sure why you thought he was from there. And if Hillary or Obama get in for 4 years, how are we going to not have them rerun for 4 more, in your comment?

[fascisthunter]

5. And Hillary was Naive Enough to Believe Her?

My Gud.

[Ghost in the Machine]

7. She *proves* herself a LIAR right here....

"Clinton: "I did not. Because -- certainly I didn't rely on the Bush administration. I did a lot of my own due diligence, "

She didn't do a damned thing for due diligence if she didn't even read the NIE report. Period. She learned to lie really well either in law school or from watching Bill himself....you know, Mr. "But I didn't inhale" or Mr. "I didn't have sex with that woman".... they're ALL fucking liars... get rid of the whole lot of them...

[NoodleyAppendage]

9. Option #2. Most certainly, option #2.

Hillary would sell her soul (and some argue she already has) to obtain Presidential power. Is she wins nothing will change for average Americans. The rich will continue to get richer and the poor poorer.

J

[speedoo]

16. Absolutely #2. nt

[formercia]

11. What a pile of hot stinking bullshit

If Hillary fell for that, she hasn't got the common sense to be President.

Vote for me. I was the Village Idiot and didn't know better, so i'm not accountable.

[Tom Joad]

80. What's wrong with Condi?? Bush has relied on her wise guidance...

are you being disrespectful to your President?

[formercia]

103. He's not my President

Just because he conned his way into being sworn-in as President doesn't make him one. He is a pretender to the throne just like many in History who have done the same. He will get his fair and due process.

I respect the office of the President, that doesn't mean I have to respect the idiot boy King that sits on the throne.

Fuck Junior. as for Condi, I have limits.

[bvar22]

12. There is another possibility:

#4) Knowing she would need the backing of her pals at the DLC, AIPAC, The War Profiteers, The Oil Cos, and the Armaments Industry for her campaign in 2007, Hillary signed the Death Warrants for hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis, and thousands of American soldiers.
It was politically expedient for the ascendant queen to support the War.

The DLC enthusiastically supported the War.
Hillary IS DLC.

[bvar22]

14. Added to above post:

The DLC supports the Continued Occupation of Iraq AND the privatization of Iraq's Oil Resources.

So does Hillary!

[speedoo]

18. Yup, and to add more....

[Individualist]

24. Absolutely

That's the most likely reason she voted for the war.

"The Democratic Leadership Council's agenda is indistinguishable from the Republican Neoconservative agenda," http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Kucinich_DLC_agenda_undistinguishable_from_Neocon_0813.html

"Let's just look at the cold, hard facts about the DLC and its record. The DLC has pushed, among other things, the war in Iraq and "free" trade policies, using bags of corporate money to buy enough Democratic votes to help Republicans make those policies a reality. They have chastised anyone who has opposed those policies as either unpatriotic or anti-business -- even as a majority of Americans now oppose the war in Iraq, oppose the DLC's business-written trade deals, and are sick of watching America's economy sold out to the highest corporate bidder. Additionally, in brazenly Orwellian fashion, the DLC has also called its extremist agenda "centrist," even though polls show the American public opposes most of their agenda, and supports much of the progressive agenda." http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0727-32.htm

[formercia]

139. Who are the Members of the DLC in Congress?

http://www.nndb.com/group/269/000093987/

The answer might surprise you.


Are we being sandbagged here?

[Diane R]

45. Ding, ding, ding. And we have a winner!!

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sandnsea]

15. When did she commandeer the morning shows

to warn the American people to let the inspections continue. Oh that's right, she only gets air time to promote herself or bash Dems.

[bvar22]

19. Good Point.

jgraz had an excellent post yesterday pointing out that our candidates need to be accountable not only for what they did, but also for the things they didn't do.

Hillary has demonstrated the ability to command "Face Time" from the Media outlets.
When has she used this power to advance ANY Progressive issues?



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[KoKo]

17. What this says is that she's weasly...and maybe is colluding with Condi to get their stories

straight. The Monitor needs to ask Condi her own recollection of this. If she agrees with Hillary then look for the Clinton II Administration to give Condiliar a plum job. If it isn't then Hillary is trying to dig herself out of her support for Iraq Invasion and can't be trusted.

[SOS]

20. "when I was still weighing all of the evidence"

Without even reading the NIE?

[Joanne98]

22. Poor Hillary, she's always getting tricked by everyone!

She has good intentions but the bad guys just won't leave her alone.

:sarcasm:

[madrchsod]

25. is she really that stupid to trust condi and her masters?

she claims to have been in the whitehouse during her husbands embargoes and bombing of iraq for years. she did`t know just how weak saddam`s nation was?

i guess we will have to see if she responds to this accusation.

[Dems Will Win]

26. Um -- this is not an accusation - THESE ARE HER OWN WORDS!

To the Concord Monitor -- read it again.

"Dick must have gotten confused" - that's what Hillary told the Monitor Rice said to her, and that convinced her to vote for the war...

[madrchsod]

28. oops- i read that but it really did`t sink in

well... why would she trust people who for over 8 years did nothing but try to destroy her and her husband..

[Dems Will Win]

32. Just wait, she'll pobably end up denying it all.

[truth2power]

27. If Hillary's that gullible...

she's not qualified to be President. End of story.

There are too many lies to count, just in that snippit in the OP. Hillary's bailing as fast as she can. :rofl:

Nope. Not anyone I'd claim as my candidate.

[Marr]

30. Hopefully, most Dem voters aren't as gullible as she *pretends* to be.

It makes me laugh when I hear these politicians claim they were 'fooled' or 'misled' by the Bush Administration. Any fool with a newspaper subscription could see very well what was going on, and what their intentions were. These kinds of excuses are just insulting. How stupid they must think we are.

[FlyingSquirrel]

35. Amen.

[Cha]

37. This keeps compounding..

maybe hillary should have just apologized to the Friends and Families of the Soldiers who are being killed and maimed in Iraq and to the American People who she wants to vote her in to our whitehouse.

[K Gardner]

38. Also, note how many times it is mentioned she DIDNT ASK ANY QUESTIONS

Even Rice called her back to ask her if she HAD ANY QUESTIONS, since she didn't ask any. WTF??

She says, "I did my own due diligence and talked to people in my husband's administration"

God help us all. Bookmarked, K&R

[formercia]

40. Progressives are looking for a qualified candidate.

Village Idiots need not apply.

[creeksneakers2]

41. She isn't saying she was fooled just by Rice

She says she double checked everything. She wasn't gullible enough to go on Rice's word alone. The conclusions drawn from her statement here don't match the evidence at all.

Senators don't have time to read everything. They rely on staff and others to summarize. Hillary is no different from every other Senator. If Hillary read the NIE she would not have been much wiser because the NIE was cooked to make it look like Iraq had WMD.

I do fault Hillary, as well as every other Senator from either party, for not pointing out at the time there were serious problems arising with the intelligence and it wasn't reliable enough to go to war on. I don't fault her for believing that there might be WMD. That was always assumed even before Bush got to office.

[druidity33]

43. I'll bet

that Feingold read the whole thing...

:)

I fault Hillary more because she thinks that is acceptable for someone in a LEADERSHIP position.

This shit is important! Do you think she's read it since she voted on it?

[Garbo 2004]

46. What did these Senators know that Clinton didn't?

NAYs ---23
Akaka (D-HI)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Chafee (R-RI)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dayton (D-MN)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Graham (D-FL)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Reed (D-RI)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Wyden (D-OR)
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237#position

[creeksneakers2]

49. They had lots of reasons for voting against the war

that had nothing to do with what Condi Rice said, or whether or not they read the NIE.

[Garbo 2004]

82. Reasons that Clinton didn't share evidently. Who made the better choice for the nation? n/t

[flyarm]

148. Ya Know before one soldier is sent to his death or sent into any damn war ..the least a senator can

do is read the NIE..the least...and just having to say that is a disgrace to our soliders and our military..

before one soldier sets foot out of this country and into war he or she should have the 100% confidence that each and every senator and congress person has read the damn reports!

the constitution demands they do..and there is no where in the constitution that the congress can abdicate their responsibility to pass on the war powers to the executive..and that is exactly what Hillary did with her vote.

fly

[BuelahWitch]

77. They weren't planning to run for president?

:shrug:

[Garbo 2004]

83. Yeah that's one. Which I think explains Kerry's and Edwards' votes then too.n/t

[RaleighNCDUer]

108. My understanding is the NIE includes caveats and dissenting

opinions - what she DID get was a cooked summary of the NIE which included none of that. By not reading the original document she accepted the bullshit side of the story.

As for WMDs, nobody with any intelligence at all ever thought that Saddam had any weapons capable of striking the US. He didn't use any against coalition forces in Gulf I, or in the rediculously inept attacks against Saudi Arabia and Israel when his forces were at their peak - so how could they be MORE effective after being downgraded by 9 years of sanctions and UN inspections?

Without reading ANY NIEs, sheer common sense tells us that Saddam was no threat to anyone outside the region, and only a marginal threat to his direct neighbors. And the whole world knew it which is why there were MILLIONS on the strees in the months before the war saying "don't do it".

If WE got it, why didn't she?

[liberal N proud]

42. Confused??

I think the confusion here was misplaced.

:wow:

[Plucketeer]

44. I'll second that!

I'll back Hillary ALL THE WAY!!!! in her bid for NY senator again. :crazy:

[flordehinojos]

47. reading this ...

"Condi Rice called me and said, You didn't ask any questions, do you have any questions? I said I only have one: Will you use this authorization to put inspectors back in, so that we can find out whether any of this is true, how much WMD he still has or has reconstituted? She said, Yes, that's what it's intended to do. I think Dick might have gotten confused."

Monitor: And you had no reason to doubt her?

Clinton: "I did not."

it seems to me that hillary was duped as duped can be and that the spider mistress a/k/a condoleezza rice was very knowing lying to hillary clinton...this seems to show one more time the soullessness of the entire bush goons who don't give a shit about who the lie to, or why they lie, just as long as they get what the hell they want!

[Yuugal]

100. maybe

I'm just not buying the myriad of stories over the years that have every dem who sells us out being "misled". At what point do we realize we are being cynically lied too?

[Rex]

48. She is in like Flynn because she will win.

Unless Hagel steps in.

[shesgg]

50. I wouldn't try to meme an obvious smear

Hillary still has a lot of money to combat this stuff and to a lot of Democrats, she is the one who can win next November. I am anxiously awaiting the results in Iowa.

She is smart, rolling in money and although Barack is great, I am not so sure he can handle smear attempts as well as Hillary has already proven that she can.

[Dems Will Win]

64. Wait a minute -- this is Hillary saying Condi told her Dick was confused and so she voted for the

authorization but then Uncle Dick was still confused and so he didn't wait for the inspectors, got mad at Saddam and Shocked and Awed him.

[pleah]

51. I dearly love to have a woman president, but,

I just can't trust HRC.

[TwilightZone]

53. You're misreading the article. Condi didn't make the Dick statement; Hillary did.

Because I have no interest in going through this again, I'll refer to my prior discussion of the topic:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3881766&mesg_id=3881863

Please reference the exchange started with that post.

[paulk]

79. I read that in the other thread

and I think you're most likely right. It's the only reasonable way that statement makes any sense.

Not that that will stop the feeding frenzy....

[JackORoses]

90. it's actually worse that way

Hillary really and truly believed Cheney was confused about War? Bullshit.

I can accept Condi saying that to try to allay Hill's fears, but if that was Hill's own thought than she is worse off than I imagined.

[TwilightZone]

117. It's called sarcasm.

I explained it fully in my posts in the other thread.

I find it hilarious that people criticize Hillary almost constantly for being sarcastic, then they don't recognize it when it's ridiculously obvious.

[IndyOp]

134. I think you are right about Hillary's sarcastic comment about Dick --

Rice lied to Hillary about the administration's intended purpose for the resolution. The administration intended to use it as approval to attack Iraq. Hillary believed she had been reassured by Rice that it was only needed to demand inspections, which would only happen if there was a military threat.

The problem still remains - Hillary was gullible like so many other Senators and Congressmembers (and this, sadly, also includes John Edwards and Joe Biden). How many times does an administration need to lie to these people before they conclude that the administration is full of liars and that nothing, nothing at all they say can be trusted?

This problem is endemic in our society regarding all military operations. Over and over and over again we fall for it. Hillary should not have fallen for the lie -- that is point. She believed Rice. She did not do enough due diligence to come to the anti-resolution conclusion and 20+ Senators reached.

Did you believe that the invasion of Iraq was justified when it happened? Did you believe that there might be WMDs in Iraq and that the U.S. military should go in and check? Were you one of the 90% of Americans who supported Bush after 9/11? I didn't because I know them all to be liars. The ruling class - which is what many very powerful Senators and Congressmembers believe they are - will always lie to the people about war. Always.

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." (Herman Goering)

[BrklynLiberal]

54. Condi outwitted Hillary?? Uh-oh!!!

[Divine Discontent]

55. as damn dirty and crooked as condi is...

and how she screwed up the nation's security after getting appointed and not paying attention to Osama (either by order or choice) and 9/11 happens and Hillary TRUSTS her for advice?

I am having a hard time right now thinking I will even vote if she gets nom. Which means the millions of active Democrats like me might do the same thing, and she'd lose to Huckster or McCain 53-47 or worse, which would be worse than her not getting in because of her defense of gay rights, and other social causes that those idiots are against, but she really appears like a POLITICIAN to me, and not someone I'd call President.

[Disturbed]

59. If the Dems nominate Sen Clinton they will be lose.

Maybe they don't really want to take on the Manure Pile that will be left
from the Busholini Regime.

[Divine Discontent]

70. it's a VERY large pile of this stuff...

[Roland99]

57. The SAME Kindasleazy Lies that said THIS about Saddam in July 2001????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0wbpKCdkkQ

"Saddam does not control the northern part of the country," she said. "We are able to keep his arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt."

[Divine Discontent]

71. the very one! n/t

[warren pease]

74. Also the same one who told the 9/11 commission...

"I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would take an airplane and slam it into the World Trade Center, take another one and slam it into the Pentagon; that they would try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile."

Of course not. Just pure random coincidence.

So, Hillary is either a gullible nitwit, a world-class incompetent or a lying, conniving megalomaniac. All three of these major flaws exist in abundance within the twisted brain of The Commander Guy and we're all seeing how well that turned out. I think I could do without a repeat.

So if she's not incompetent or conniving, then I'm supposed to believe that she's so lame that she takes the word of this lying harridan unquestioningly? How many millions of people weren't fooled by the Iraq WMD garbage and marched in the streets all over the world to protest the inevitable? And poor Hillary was just so overwhelmed by the force of Rice's character and logic that she was blinded by the light? And I'm supposed to vote for such a person?

Not bloody likely.


wp

[The Wizard]

138. Oh yeah, I believe Condi too.

"I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would take an airplane and slam it into the World Trade Center, take another one and slam it into the Pentagon; that they would try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile."

Two months prior to 9-11-01, the G8 conference in Genoa evacuated the hotels and put the dignitaries on ships because of an Al Qeada threat to fly planes into the hotels.
She belongs in prison for lying under oath to the 911 Commission. This is a bit more serious than a stained blues dress.
Now if Condi lied under oath about sucking Eric Cartman's balls, charges would be brought. Lying about national security failures, not a peep.

[warren pease]

142. A little Bojinka with your morning coffee, sir?

Here's a couple of sites I just pulled up by typing "planes into buildings" into Google. This one is pretty comprehensive, once you get past the lack of editing at the beginning.


See this one on Operation Bojinka, the alleged Al Qaeda plot to blow up airliners over the Pacific heading for the US and fly one into CIA headquarters, written by right wing pest Reid Irvine, who claims the wingnut end of the spectrum isn't given equal time by the "librul media." Now that's delusional on a grand scale. Decent article, though.

"Project Bojinka," which was disclosed by Accuracy in Media on Sept. 13, made the front page of the Washington Post 10 days later. The Post's story, written by four of its reporters in Manila, reported that in 1995 Philippine police discovered a plan "that gave a chilling preview of the attack in New York and Washington on September 11." It said that they found "a clandestine terrorist cell allied with Osama bin Laden" that was plotting to plant bombs in a dozen American airliners and fly an airplane into CIA headquarters.

I assume you've heard that the National Reconnaissance Office was running a plane-into-building simulation on the morning of 9/11/01? Here's an old DU thread on the subject, complete with links. According to one official spokesperson...

"It was just an incredible coincidence that this happened to involve an aircraft crashing into our facility," Haubold said. "As soon as the real world events began, we canceled the exercise."

Of course it was an incredible coincidence, big guy. Just a day chock full of amazing, unexplained coincidences.

Also re the NRO drill, this was salvaged from oblivion by the MemoryHole.


Even USA Today gets in on the fun with this story from April 2004. Here's the lead paragraph:

WASHINGTON — In the two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, the North American Aerospace Defense Command conducted exercises simulating what the White House says was unimaginable at the time: hijacked airliners used as weapons to crash into targets and cause mass casualties.

And last, a good one from Buzzflash on the Genoa G8 summit and The Commander Guy's sleeping accommodations.


Earlier this year, right here on DU, one brave and patriotic woman with, I would think, a very strong stomach volunteered to give The Decider his very own impeachment blow job, which would be audio- and video- recorded by dozens of machines and microphones, archived in hundreds of vaults across the country for safe keeping and eventually used as evidence to remove The Codpiece in Chief from office.

Maybe then Ms. Nancy could dust off the table and place HR 333 in a position of honor. And since the whole country's been trained by mass media that there is only one impeachable offense left, the public would demand his ouster and a whole new generation of internet and barroom wits would emerge to make the Boy King the international laughingstock he so richly deserves to be.

Unfortunately, nobody volunteered to do the same thing for Cheney. Maybe that could be somebody's new years resolution...


wp

[Bluebear]

58. "And you had no reason to doubt her?" Clinton: "No, I did not."

Holy Toledo.

[marmar]

60. "Holy Toledo"

.... and Columbus and Cincinnati too. :silly:

[frogcycle]

104. even Cleveland! n/t

[rodeodance]

63. being a Senator from NY weighed heavily in her decision.

[Dems Will Win]

65. This thread finally has a halfway decent comeback from a Hillary supporter

This Dick was confused so I voted YES thingie is obviously Death on Wheels for her...

[Rosa Luxemburg]

92. yes

some of her voters would have wanted her to go to war.

[HooptieWagon]

66. how can any true Democrat

that is, one who believes in the rule of law, the constitution, and the welfare of people over the welfare of multinational corporate interests; how can any true Dem EVER vote for HRC??? There is NO issue that she's out front on, that is, one where you sit back and say "Damn if Hillary wasn't right all along". Nope, none... no leadership skills whatsoever. There is no chance I'm voting for that corporate tool - even if a repuke wins, b/c I see little difference between HRC and the puke candidates...

[LostinVA]

75. You're looking at one, and I don't need to prove my cred on here

And, disagree with her all you want, but leave the personal, judgmental attacks at the door.

I could also accept an Edwards candidacy, and I'll vote for WHOMEVER the Dem nominee is, without hesitation.

[RaleighNCDUer]

109. "...personal, judgemental attacks..."?

Barring any evidence to the contrary, she is a person. But the poster listed political objections, not personal. As for being judgemental, isn't that what we are here for, to make judgements on who is capable of leading us for the next 8 years?

Hillary is a watch the polls, follow the crowd politician, not a leader. As the previous poster asked, what issue has she been out front on, taking the unpopular but correct stance that, when all was over, people could look at and say "she was right all along"?

[lunatica]

68. six of one, half a dozen of the other

Either way it doesn't make the baker's dozen they're trying to sell us.

[JMDEM]

72. Much of my anger at Hillary is NOT in the stereotypes that people like to hype...

She HAD a bully pulpit to really lay into Bush. Hell, the Repukes are going to hate her regardless, so why didn't she really let them have it from day one? Kerry, Kennedy, Clinton, Boxer -- could have been a powerful force for change.

Given the attitudes about 9/11 in NYC and probably NY as a whole, she COULD HAVE laid into Bush without significant voter approval deterioration -- hell, it might have even increased, ala Rosie O'Donnell. She could have been a true warrior leading the charge.

Instead she straddled, straddled, straddled the fence at every oppurtunity. Playing with the power brokers, jockying into position. F* that sh*t. SPEAK THE TRUTH.

I guess my strongest feeling towards Hillary is bitter bitter disappointment. And resentment. She whittled away a golden oppurtunity to help our country.

Don't give me any of this "pandering to the center" shit. Almost 3/4 wants out of Iraq. 3/4 or more wants universal health coverage. He is not pandering to the center -- she is pandering to the corporate interests.

[nealmhughes]

93. No kidding. When you are skewered daily by the RW press and infortainment,

why not go into attack mode and stay in it. WTF? Afraid of violating some secret triangulating rule?

"So, you think I am dissing the president, eh? You ain't heard nothin' yet! Mr. Bush has single handedly ....." I would. She wasn't going to be reelected as Senator from NY? No way, for some reason the Empire State seems oddly attracted to Mme.

Maybe Condi actually thought that Cheney was shooting off his mouth, and actually thought she and Powell trumped Deadeye. Anyhow, did she not consider what an Enabling Act might do, rather than what it purported to do? She is a lawyer for goodness' sake! One is reminded of the water corporation for Manhattan turned into Chase Manhattan by the city council and state legislature not noting carefully how the bloody enabling act was worded!

Personally, I think this is retroconning her public persona for the US public. Who wants to admit: "I am a woman and I need to look tough. It will be a cake walk if we do go into Iraq, and the country is looking for revanche. And a nay would look so bad to a certain vocal minority in the City. . ."

Maybe she can get sudden soap opera aging syndrome next and come back from her trip to camp a bit older and a lot wiser.

[bonito]

73. Hillary is a non issue here on DU

Except for a few trying to make her so.

[Tom Joad]

78. If she is elected President, i am sure she will continue to use the guidance of people like Condi.

A Hillary Presidency is a threat to the human race.
Pass it on.

[TwilightZone]

81. Too funny - 59 recommendations based on a misread of the article by the OP.

Condi didn't make the statement; Hillary did.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3881766&mesg_id=3881863

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3881766&mesg_id=3881886

You apparently haven't been paying any attention to the administration the past few years. The last thing that they would ever do is admit that Dick Cheney was confused about Iraq.

I can't believe that so many people hopped right on a bandwagon that made zero sense. Pretty amusing, that.

[JackORoses]

88. make that 60

The best thing is that this is from a direct quote of Hillary. No retroactive doublespeak on this one.

*

We asked Sen. Clinton today if it was correct that Colin Powell had persuaded her that the resolution could be a vote to avoid war rather than a vote for war. She replied: "No, it wasn't Colin Powell. it was Condi Rice."
...
"Condi Rice called me and said, You didn't ask any questions, do you have any questions? I said I only have one: Will you use this authorization to put inspectors back in, so that we can find out whether any of this is true, how much WMD he still has or has reconstituted? She said, Yes, that's what it's intended to do. I think Dick might have gotten confused."

Monitor: And you had no reason to doubt her?

Clinton: "I did not."

*

She told Hillary what she wanted to hear. Hillary accepted it because she did not want to take the risk of standing up to the Administration.
That would not have been the best calculation, politically.

Why was Condi calling Hillary to ask if she had any questions?
Shouldn't Hillary have been the one calling Condi? I mean if she was doing any serious investigation, that is.

[RaleighNCDUer]

111. Do you really believe that Cheney was 'confused'?

That evil bastard knew exactly what he was doing, and saying he was 'confused' just gives Bushco cover, while she tries simultaneously to cover her own.

The problem is, she consulted with CONDI. She didn't read the NIE. She continues to justify an unjustifiable vote.

[TwilightZone]

114. Of course not, and neither did Hillary.

It was sarcasm. That much is obvious to anyone who bothers to actually analyze the statement. I explain it fully at the links I provided.

[Dems Will Win]

122. As many times as you say it's sarcasm does not make it so. You just pulled that out if your ass.

THe reporter asks immediately afterward "Did you have any reason to doubt that?"

She replies "I did not" NOWHERE does the OCncord Monitor indicate that Condi did not say that. It's Hillary quoting Condi.

Anything else you are pulling out of your derriere and would hav eto be confirmed and then corrected by the Monitor.

You're tryon gto tell us a reporter in front of Hillary misquoted her??

IMPOSSIBLE! Condi did say it to her ans she bought it hook line and sinker!

[TwilightZone]

143. Reading is fundamental.

That's not even the same quote I'm referring to, but nice try.

Condi did not make the Cheney statement. That much is obvious to anyone not blinded by hatred of the evil Hillary.

Unfortunately, that eliminates about 95% of DU, and many of them bought into your nonsense interpretation.

Condi Rice would NEVER say that Dick Cheney was confused about ANYTHING, particularly Iraq. If you pulled your head out of your ass long enough to apply some deductive reasoning, you'd figure that out.

[Gman]

121. The OP is reading the article with the 20-20 hindsight we now have

and trying to blame Hillary for not having the knowledge we have 5 years later. That's pretty messed up thinking.

[TwilightZone]

144. Good point.

91% of the country bought the same bullshit that was fed to Hillary. I guarantee that some of that 91% are here on DU, blasting Hillary for buying the same crap they did.

[Az_lefty]

84. She's lying...your done hillary

[Bitwit1234]

89. I guess rove really is working for Obama Idoler

the peeing and moaning lies are coming thick and fast. The republican owned MSM is working overtime to get the bullshit out there aren't they. And of course Obama Idolers are jumping and bumping and looking for a telephone number.

[JackORoses]

91. so sorry your sHill is in shambles

It must hurt to see something you have invested so much energy and time into go up in flames.

[lisainmilo]

94. With all due respect...though I am a JE supporter,,,here is food for thought

A reminder of what Bush was telling all of us.


Bush Speech October 7, 2002

Tonight I want to take a few minutes to discuss a grave threat to peace, and America's determination to lead the world in confronting that threat.

" The threat comes from Iraq. It arises directly from the Iraqi regime's own actions -- its history of aggression, and its drive toward an arsenal of terror. Eleven years ago, as a condition for ending the Persian Gulf War, the Iraqi regime was required to destroy its weapons of mass destruction, to cease all development of such weapons, and to stop all support for terrorist groups. The Iraqi regime has violated all of those obligations. It possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. It has given shelter and support to terrorism, and practices terror against its own people. The entire world has witnessed Iraq's eleven-year history of defiance, deception and bad faith."

HERE IS THE TIE TO 9/11

"We also must never forget the most vivid events of recent history. On September the 11th, 2001, America felt its vulnerability -- even to threats that gather on the other side of the earth. We resolved then, and we are resolved today, to confront every threat, from any source, that could bring sudden terror and suffering to America."

The speech continues with grave threat

More: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021007-8.html


Here is Hillary's Floor Speech October 10, 2002 but first I might say, It seems Hillary gave great thought to her decision to vote for the resolution. It was with hesitancy and the thought crossed her mind in regards to misuse of presidential power. Do I think she was duped into voting for the resolution? Truly I cannot say. Here is her speech.

http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html


Many were lied to in 2002, though I myself did not believe it, many around me at the time did. We were lied to over and over and over. Here is Iraq On The Record-The Bush Administration, it is a record of all the misleading statements told by Bush, Cheney, Rice and others.

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/IraqOnRecord.html


So while I will continue as a supporter of JE, there was alot of fluff going on by the Republicans.










"

[bjobotts]

96. What a smear! Bush/Cheney et al were telling everyone war was last resort.

Why should anyone believe differently. It was Rice and Cheney back then, not as we know them now. "Email this to everyone..." etc is nothing but a smear job and a slanted representation of the events. You are taking what we know now and applying it as if they knew it then. We "now" know it was a mistake and some had the foresight to see it then but it doesn't indicate "bad judgment" nor does it indicate we should ring the bells and stop the presses as if we've been deceived. Sounds to me like just more Hillary bashing. You should be talking about how Bush/Cheney lied and deceived about what they always intended to do with an AUMF in Iraq. Remember, the intell may have later proved to have been false, but at the time it was believable and supported. I'm not a Hillary supporter but will be if she wins the primary. I would attempt to change her views because she still represents the democratic party's dictates. We aren't electing kings and queens here...but democrats.

[xxqqqzme]

99. I got to tell you, you are waaaay off base.

There was much discussion on this board in the war drum beating stage. I don't know one person on this board that believed Saddam had WMDs....not one. I'm certain there may a been a couple, but jeebus on a pogo stick, I knew it was all a load of shit, that the neo-cons had been having wet dreams about invading Iraq since - was it '96 PNACers sent the letter to Clinton? Am I supposed to believe Hillary knew NOTHING about that letter as well?

There were the inspectors that were saying there were no WMDs, there was Sy Hersch, there were voices out there warning and advising caution. Those voices were easily found on the internet.

I even remember being on this board the night * warned the Iraqis that we were invading and told them NOT to sabotage the oil wells - remember that? Just as we all suspected...it WAS all about the oil.

[RaleighNCDUer]

115. Have you no bullshit detector at all?

While they were saying war would the be last resort, they were piling hundreds of thousands of troops into to Gulf - they were making demands that they knew Saddam would never accede to - they were claiming that Saddam was refusing inspection even while there were inspectors on the ground in Iraq. Across the globe, millions saw that Bushco was going to go to war, regardless.

Are you saying that YOU were fooled, too?

[Seabiscuit]

97. There's a 4th possible conclusion:

Hillary is so full of shit she actually thinks the public will buy this ridiculous and utterly pathetic excuse for her bad behavior in October, 2002. How stupid does she think we are? As stupid as Nancy Pelosi thinks?

Sorry, but those are two bimbos we do NOT need running our country into the septic tank.

Edited to add: I take back the "sorry" part.

[xxqqqzme]

98. he misused the authority - misused? MISUSED?

then WTF are you not impeaching his sorry, god talks to me, neo-con ass!

[jdadd]

101. John Edwards is my choice....

But being the Yellow Dog that I am, I will hold my nose and vote for Hillary if she gets the nomination.

Isn't this the second time Hillary has bought the Confused Dick story? The first being, Bills excuse after the Monica thing. "Gee Hill...Uhh my Dick got confused".

[Major Hogwash]

102. Well, somebody should just start throwing dirt on Hillary's hopes of becoming President.

Because they're dead.

[The Wizard]

107. The case against HRC

Hillary Clinton has chosen to dance with the Devil, and that Devil is the DLC (AKA Democratic Party version of neocons). Her campaign to date is undefined, essentially being she's not George Bush and knows how to fight the Republican slime machine. She is unprincipled and will not take a stand on anything of consequence, nor will she stand up for the Democratic Party's core beliefs. She will never admit an error, much like the current squatter in the White House.
The simple fact is, she's not Bill, who has the charisma and an inherent knack for speaking extemporaneously. Everything she says is carefully scripted and designed to be ambivalent to the point of giving her enough room to avoid responsibility. She is a fence sitter trying to triangulate like Bill did, but without the requisite skill. Because of this, her weakness will be exploited by the Republicans and their handmaidens in the corporate media. Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything. This is why she voted to give Bush dictatorial powers. This is not leadership. The only thing you find in the middle of the road are yellow stripes and dead armadillos.
She is the corporate media's choice, not the grassroots / netroots choice for the Democratic Party's standard bearer. If she gets the nomination, she will be a drag on down ballot candidates, creating a greater chance for Republicans to take back the House and Senate, as she is the one candidate who will enrage the bigoted right wingers to come out and vote in droves. Let's hope the Democratic leadership is not as stupid as they are weak and intervenes on behalf of political reality and the good of the American people.
The one redeeming factor of her getting the nomination is the outside chance she'll win the general election causing the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly and the entire air staff at Pox (deliberate typo) News to either commit suicide or have strokes on the air.
Imagine the entertainment value of Brit Hume opening his show on January 20, 2009, eating the barrel of a 357 magnum.

[Gman]

110. So she trusted the National Security Advisor at the time

and was lied to. Hindsight is wonderfully 20-20. This is not a story about Hillary. The story here is Condi lied.

[RaleighNCDUer]

116. No, the story is she believed the neo-con administration

rather than the world leaders (her great 'experience' asset) who said it was bullshit. She KNEW those leaders. Personal relationships, and all that. And NONE, except Tony Blair, signed up for the 'Coalition of the Willing" (would their victory be "Triumph of the Will"?) yet she did not question why they didn't back Bush. She preferred to believe Bushco. Or, of she did not believe, she cynically cooperated anyway.

Either way, she's poison to the party.

[Gman]

118. No, the story is she was lied to by the National Security Advisor

This is a story about Hillary being lied to. As with many at the time, she had to valid reason to disbelieve what she was being told. The secondary story is that Condi portrayed Cheney as being confused, maybe alluding that he was mentally unstable.

No problem, this "story" will have no legs anyway.

[RaleighNCDUer]

124. For a lie to be effective it must be believed.

"As with many at the time, she had to (sic) valid reason to disbelieve what she was being told." (I assume you mean 'to' to read as 'no'.)

As I said, her much touted foreign policy experience, her personal relationships with foreign leaders is supposed to be a selling point, yet NONE of them agreed with attacking Iraq except Britain. She ignored the example of every major state in Western Europe, preferring to believe what the pro-war administration said.

Rather than there being no reason to disbelieve, there was no reason believe. Saddam's army, after being virtually destroyed in 91, was seriously degraded by 10 years of sanctions, the 'aluminum tubes' were proven to be common rocket tubes for short range missiles, not the kind of aluminum tubes needed for nuclear production. Saddam's son-in-law was executed in 95 for revealing that Saddam had destroyed his chemical stockpiles.

I could go on and on, but then, you really know all this - as did anyone who cared to look into it at the time.

She didn't.

[Gman]

136. IIRC, the revelation about the aluminum tubes came after the IWR

but I could be wrong. Hillary simply did her job. Her's and any other senator's first resource for information is domestic.

Again, this is all so clear now with the magic of 20-20 hindsight. And, as we did know at the time, the IWR was contingent on UN approval which never came and Bush went to war anyway, regardless of the opinion of the rest of the world. Hillary did not create this war. Bush did.

[Renew Deal]

137. This is a story about Hillary's bad judgement.

Is that something that comes with her "35 years of experience?"

[Broadslidin]

112. "I Trust President Bush" taken from Sen. Clinton's War Authorization Speech on the Senate Floor.

As one of the persons who lost money in the
George Bush "Harkin Energy" insider stock trading swindle,
needless to say,
I was rather flabbergasted when she forcibly stated
"I Trust President Bush".

I wonder if Senator Clinton ever bothered to research
the past history of George Bush
beginning with the
February 2000 issue of Harper's
"The Prospect of a Bush Restoration"
written by Kevin Phillips.

[Javaman]

119. HRC. Worst. Candidate. Ever. nt

[HooptieWagon]

120. Many people knew the neocons in the WH were full of shit

... and Hillary chose to believe them. What does this say about her "experience" and judgement? Do we REALLY want her negotiating American interests with world leaders? They'll walk all over her...

[peacetalksforall]

123. I can't remember when it was I started writing on DU that the real President

was Cheney. This is Cheney's war. This is Cheney's cheating and thieving. He is acting on behalf of all embittered politicians and operators like Bolton, Norquist, Addington, Wolfkowitz, Rumsfeld, Poindexter, Rice, and the barons, ceo's, reverends and their lobbyists that they all work for. This is a decades old plan that they have been unraveling and grooming for and they used concocted scandals of the 90's, the Supreme Court with vote theft to get back in power. They accelerated their timetable a little too much and they were too arrogant. They knew it all and they believed our stupidity and blind loyalty. Every person who bragged about our nation's superiority helped them get it all set up while they sold and traded our way all our technological and scientific powers.

Any elected official in Washington or in our States who couldn't figure this out after 9-11 should be in some job that does not require analysis work.

Any elected official in Washington or in our States who has facilitate the objectives of the lobbyists and associations such as the Federalist Society, AIPAC, Heritage, AEI is responsible.

The very people who get us to hate so they can profit stand out when a person spends any amount of time figuring out what happened to us. Then, when you know a little and you learn more about their histories over the decades and when you can bear to know the truth, it fits together like a glove. Some peole may not be good at puzzles.

She got herself in a corner.

Ms. Rice is Queen of Liars in this country. I'm willing to learn anything to the contrary. Having a doctorate means different things to many people. For some it means they condone death. How's her little Black shirted Army this Christmas? What does Hillary thing about a State Dept private Army? Did that come by for a vote?

[femrap]

127. I seem to remember that John Kerry

said that Colin Powell had gone to the Senate and talked to many Senators and assured them that there would be no attacks on Iraq.

Colin Powell certainly was an obedient lap dog.

[disndat]

129. HRC is not ready

for prime time. After 7 years of Bushco, we need someone with more testosterone for the job. Maybe, she might have been the perfect person to be the first woman president right after Bill's 8 years. She would have had the necessary momentum carried over from her husband successful administration.

[CGrantt57]

130. It has always been the strategy...

...of the right wing to sow dissension and hatred among their enemies.

I'm sure they are most thankful of your efforts and will reward you mightily.

Regards,

[mike_c]

131. more lies-- Saddam agreed to resume inspections BEFORE the IWR vote...

...and in any event had complied with the UN disarmament mandate a decade earlier-- which was noted in the NIE the OP cites. There was simply no good reason to pass the IWR. None. Ever.

[derby378]

132. To quote Moses on that SOUTH PARK episode...

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

I desire - macaroni pictures.

[SlingBlade]

140. This is the way I see it, Like it or not....

If Clinton is the nominee I will not vote for her but will write in the candidates name I feel
will do my country and my party the best.

Some here have said that’s a free ride for the Re-Pukes, But you’ve obviously missed my whole premise.
I feel Hillary Clinton as well as Biden are no better than Re-Pugs and since that is the case I do not
want my party blamed for what the Re-Pugs would do anyway.
Corporate DLC Democrats are no better than Republicans, Look at Liberman..
You actually think he wouldn't be offered a position in Hillary's cabinet ?

If its Hillary Clinton, I would just as soon see a Re-Puke take control again.
I love my party to much too see it dragged down any further than it already has been and that's a bunch.
Matter of fact, I hardly recognize it anymore, Its leadership will not fight back, It is weak and conciliatory.
It is almost a Republican Lite party rather than the loyal opposition that it once was.
It is time to put a stop to these Liberman liberals and get back to what this party really stands for. The People !

[Dems Will Win]

145. kick

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

147. Even if Hillary was "misled" she still voted for pre-empitve war.

Saying she was "fooled" doesn't absolve her from approving a war that has killed hundreds of thousands of people for no reason.

[Dems Will Win]

150. Right, and Edwards too!