Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Andrew Sullivan: "The Torture Tape Fingering Bush as a War Criminal! (A Must Read)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 11:37 AM
Original message
Andrew Sullivan: "The Torture Tape Fingering Bush as a War Criminal! (A Must Read)
Edited on Sun Dec-23-07 11:38 AM by KoKo01
(Sullivan's article puts a perspective on what's going on that's well worth the long read...I couldn't even snip enough of how good it is)

----
From The Sunday Times
December 23, 2007
The torture tape fingering Bush as a war criminal
Andrew Sullivan

And now we have found out that all the tapes have been destroyed.

See what I mean by Hollywood? We know about the destruction because someone in the government told The New York Times. We also know the 9/11 Commission had asked the administration to furnish every piece of relevant evidence with respect to Zubaydah’s interrogation and was not told about the tapes. We know also that four senior aides to Bush and Dick Cheney, the vice-president, discussed the destruction of the tapes - including David Addington, Cheney’s right-hand man and the chief legal architect of the administration’s detention and interrogation policies.

At a press conference last Thursday the president gave an equivocal response to what he knew about the tapes and when he knew it: “The first recollection is when CIA director Mike Hayden briefed me.” That briefing was earlier this month. The president is saying he cannot recall something - not that it didn’t happen. That’s the formulation all lawyers tell their clients to use when they need to avoid an exposable lie.

-snip-


But this case is more ominous for the administration because it presents a core example of what seems to be a cover-up, obstruction of justice and a direct connection between torture and the president, the vice-president and their closest aides.

Because several courts had pending cases in which testimony from Zubaydah’s interrogation was salient, the destruction of such evidence triggers a legal process that is hard for the executive branch to stymie or stall - and its first attempt was flatly rebuffed by a judge last week.

Its key argument is a weakly technical one: that the interrogation took place outside US territory - and therefore the courts do not have jurisdiction over it. It’s the same rationale for imprisoning hundreds of suspects at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba - a legal no man’s land. But Congress can get involved - especially if it believes that what we have here is a cover-up.

What are the odds that a legal effective interrogation of a key Al-Qaeda operative would have led many highly respected professionals in the US intelligence community to risk their careers by leaking top-secret details to the press?

What are the odds that the CIA would have sought to destroy tapes that could prove it had legally prevented serious and dangerous attacks against innocent civilians? What are the odds that a president who had never authorised waterboarding would be unable to say whether such waterboarding was torture?

What are the odds that, under congressional grilling, the new attorney-general would also refuse to say whether he believed waterboarding was illegal, if there was any doubt that the president had authorised it? The odds are beyond minimal.

Any reasonable person examining all the evidence we have - without any bias - would conclude that the overwhelming likelihood is that the president of the United States authorised illegal torture of a prisoner and that the evidence of the crime was subsequently illegally destroyed.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3086937.ece
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
nradisic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. He! I knew Bush was a crominial years ago!
The whole administration is criminal. They all belong in Guantanamo!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreeToys Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
2. torture
He was just on Meet The Press this morning
and he said that 2007 was the year that it became clear that the U.S. engages in torture.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. What did Russert say? I turned off MTP after Ron Paul...
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreeToys Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. not much
Russert was moving the panel through a lot of 'end of the year' questions
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
comradebillyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. actually he was on Cheris Matthews show when
he said that, not Meet the Press.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
3. About time everyone knows what we long knew
K & R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
5. BTW...the Times/London's Website is saying it's "Busy now...try later"
so please go back later and read it. Too Much Traffic for this article "fingering Bush." LOL's
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
6. This Administration is Guilty as all Hell and
any moron in congress that can't admit as much should also be investigated for protecting and enabling. I do believe there was a massive conspiracy in our government.

Impeachment off the table, huh Pelosi? We know why. You and Reid are definitely part of the problem. I know you two are not alone.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. When Pelosi says "impeachment is off the table", she really
means "my impeachment is off the table".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
7. yes, as he asks------what are the odds!
Any reasonable person examining all the evidence we have - without any bias - would conclude that the overwhelming likelihood is that the president of the United States authorised illegal torture of a prisoner and that the evidence of the crime was subsequently illegally destroyed.

Congresswoman Jane Harman, the respected top Democrat on the House intelligence committee in 2003-06, put it as simply as she could: “I am worried. It smells like the cover-up of the cover-up.”

It’s a potential Watergate. But this time the crime is not a two-bit domestic burglary. It’s a war crime that reaches into the very heart of the Oval Office.

Yes, it is Hollywood time. And the ending of this movie is as yet unwritten.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. “I am worried. It smells like the cover-up of the cover-up.”
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. I am worried too,
It is becoming increasingly obvious that the Democratic Party is actively participating in the cover up!


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Prefer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
12. Not the What, the WHY...
Torture produces false confessions. So why do they want false confessions?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Exactly, like many Hollywood movies, it won't even get to the heart of the issue...

the cover-up of high-level Saudi involvement.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. they're experimenting on humans
it's a litmus test. It's like MK Ultra. It's illegal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
14. The Emporer has no Clothes, and nudity is no longer in fashion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
15. America's D'OH! Moment? "Our Prez tortures, that sucks and blows."
"Oh well, what's on the other channel?"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
18. kick for Night Crowd...it's an interesting read even if it's nothing we here don't know.
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnHov Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-24-07 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
19. I would like to see a video of Cheney and Bush being waterboarded
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-24-07 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
20. Sullivan annoys me to no end.
He was a fucking republican bush shill during this whole mess! He went on Maher's show before the 2004 election to slam Kerry and call Noam Chompsky unamerican. He can go fuck off, his opinion means less than nothing to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 03rd 2024, 02:49 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC