Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

The torture tape fingering Bush as a war criminal

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 10:14 AM
Original message
The torture tape fingering Bush as a war criminal
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3086937.ece

From The Sunday Times

December 23, 2007

<snip>And then you read about the case of Abu Zubaydah. He is a seriously bad guy – someone we should all be glad is in custody. A man deeply involved in Al-Qaeda, he was captured in a raid in Pakistan in March 2002 and whisked off to a secret interrogation, allegedly in Thailand.

President George Bush claimed Zubaydah was critical in identifying Khalid Sheikh Mohammed as the mastermind behind 9/11. The president also conceded that at some point the CIA, believing Zubaydah was withholding information, “used an alternative set of procedures”, which were “safe and lawful and necessary”.

Zubaydah was waterboarded. That much we know - it was confirmed recently by a former CIA agent, John Kiriakou, who even used the plain English word “torture” to describe what was done. But we know little else for sure. We do know there was deep division within the American government about Zubaydah’s interrogation, and considerable debate about his reliability.

Ron Suskind’s masterful 2006 book The One Percent Doctrine recorded FBI sources as saying that Zubaydah was in fact mentally unstable and tangential to Al-Qaeda’s plots, and that he gave reams of unfounded information under torture - information that led law-enforcement bodies in the US to raise terror alert levels, rushing marshals and police to shopping malls, bridges and other alleged targets as Zubaydah tried to get the torture to stop. No one disputes that Zubaydah wrote a diary - and that it was written in the words of three personalities, none of them his own.

A former FBI agent who was involved in the interrogation, Daniel Coleman, said last week that the CIA knew Al-Qaeda’s leaders all believed Zubaydah “was crazy, and they knew he was always on the damn phone. You think they’re going to tell him anything?” Even though preliminary, legal interrogation gave the US good – though not unique – information, the CIA still asked for and received permission to torture him in pursuit of more data and leads.

The Washington Post reported that “current and former officials” said the torture lasted weeks and even, according to some, months, and that the techniques included hypothermia, long periods of standing, sleep deprivation and multiple sessions of waterboarding. All these “alternative procedures”, as Bush described them, are illegal under US law and the Geneva conventions. They are, in fact, war crimes. And they were once all treated by the US as war crimes when they were perpetrated by the Nazis. Waterboarding has been found to be a form of torture in various American legal cases.

And that is where the story becomes interesting. The Bush administration denies any illegality at all, insists it does not “torture” but refuses to say whether it believes waterboarding is torture or not. But hundreds of hours of videotape were recorded of Zubaydah’s incarceration and torture. That evidence would settle the dispute over the extremely serious question of whether the president of the United States authorised war crimes.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
ray of light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. settle it with "judicial hearings' www.wexlerwantshearings.com
and let ALL of them testify UNDER OATH and turn in all related documents.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. "he gave reams of unfounded information under torture -
- information that led law-enforcement bodies in the US to raise terror alert levels, rushing marshals and police to shopping malls, bridges and other alleged targets. . . ."

And that's what Junior's torture policy is all about -- ginning up phony intelligence to be used for propaganda purposes.

That and havin' a little fun.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
3. You know if al-Qaeda was down to the multiple personality disorder loudmouths...
They couldn't have been doing too well. I just love the insanity of their claims, they just don't make any fucking sense, and it's so clear. No one's going to tell an unstable man like Zubaydah important plans. Clusterfucks; all of them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
4. Turn the bastards over to the Hague
They should lose their citizenship over this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I have confidence they all will see the Hague in their future
and not as the kind of tourist they want to be either, these ole boys are screwed and screwed good.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I truly hope it comes to that someday, madokie. It will truly be THE test
as to whether or not the world is completely in the hands of the mafia, or not.

The good people of the world need to rise up, and put away those who are dealing war and drugs to maintain power.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I've tried to convince myself otherwise but after sleeping on it and giving it a lot of thought
I've come to the conclusion that the world has seen despotic tinhorn tyrants somewhat worse than bushco and the good ultimately won out so from that I gain my confidence that we'll win this in the end. The tone of voice that american citizens are talking with today is far different from only a few months ago and that indicates to me that people are waking up to yes there very well may be a madman or two in our whitehouse afterall. A good day is coming, we just have to keep pushing for it, the harder we push the faster it will come too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
8. "Bring it on!"
:popcorn::popcorn:

Now we know why the status of waterboarding must be kept ambiguous. That is the final lame excuse: "We thought it was legal."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 03rd 2024, 02:49 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC