Who has seen "Charlie Wilson's War" and is it worth seeing?

[0007]

[pearl]

1. I think it opens on Christmas

But I am wanting to see it.

[taterguy]

2. Any movie with Amy Adams is worth seeing

Even that damn Disney movie she's in

[Disturbed]

4. I am halfway through the book. It is an interesting story.

The film will probably gloss over the real story of the corruption of the Political System
and the CIA's actual role.

[burrowowl]

33. The book is good the filmis not

http://www.alternet.org/stories/71286/

[liberalla]

3. There was a show about the real people and events depicted in

the movie on The History Channel last night. It was fairly interesting, and further piqued my interest in the film.

[XOKCowboy]

10. I saw that. Interviews with Dan Rather, Charlie...

and the real players. I also saw a thread on DU a while back that was pretty condemning toward Charlie Wilson. I'm very curious now about the "real" story.

[doc03]

5. Charlie Wilson is my Congressman

Ohio's 6th District.

http://www.charliewilson.house.gov/

[pscot]

17. Wrong Charlie Wilson

n/t

[Manifestor_of_Light]

6. I saw it Friday night.

It was fast paced, and funny as hell. Lots of great one liners, lots of mammary glands (both clothed and unclothed) and butt-watching, due to Charlie Wilson being a hard-drinking party animal.

Mr. Wilson (Tom Hanks): "I'm stupid."
CIA Advisor (Philip Seymour Hoffman): "You're not stupid. You're just in Congress."

And that's one of the clean ones.

Directed by Mike Nichols. Only a bit over 90 minutes long.

[applegrove]

7. I'm looking forward to it. Thanks for the review.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

11. You're welcome.

I have not seen a first run movie since The Simpsons last summer, so I'm not a frequent moviegoer. But for people interested in foreign affairs and politics in Washington, it's very illuminating. It explains about arms dealers and going through people in other countries to do what you want to do. And rich donors (In this case, Joanne Herring, Houston socialite, played by Julia Roberts).

However, they didn't do anything to help rebuild the infrastructure. Charlie asked for a million dollars to rebuild the schools in Afghanistan and they wouldn't give him that. And this was after they had spent a billion (Billion with a B) dollars to shoot down the Russians and defeat them.

So now they hate Americans.

[KharmaTrain]

8. History Channel Is Promoting "The Real Story" Tonight

It's coming up at 7pm Central and repeated again at 11pm. I remember Charlie but not the specifics...I'll be curious what spin they'll give this thing.

[MichiganVote]

9. Saw it today. It was good, not great. Funny at times, thought provoking.

[Kansas Wyatt]

12. I don't understand why they made a movie about....

Empowering the very people, who then turned and waged war on the U.S.

[tularetom]

13. I'd like to think they did it to point out the stupidity of our foreign policy

but I doubt they're sub-tile enough to do that.

[TomInTib]

18. Wilson was/is a true character.

And I have always had a serious case of the hots for JoAnne King Herrin.

None of that shit would've happened without JoAnne.

[durrrty libby]

14. I mentioned to my son that I want to go see the movie because I

am a Tom Hanks fan. He flippantly said, "That's the guy who armed Osama.

They made a movie about him"? Is this true or was he joking?

[Kansas Wyatt]

15. Yes, we armed them to beat the Soviets

Then they found a new enemy to target... The United States. Osama was outraged at the first Gulf War when the U.S. further invoked it's presence in the Middle East, so he turned his freedom fighters in Afghanistan on the United States.

[durrrty libby]

26. Thanks and Happy Hollidays

[lastliberalintexas]

30. They only "targeted" us after we abandoned them

Kind of like we left the people of Vietnam in the 70s and the people of Iraq in the early 90s. The resentment helped lead to the defeat of the Mujahaddin by the Taliban and the ensuing control by the fundamentalists. While it's impossible to know this with absolute certainty, I can't imagine that region being as it is today if we'd implemented Charlie's plans for the people. New schools, hospitals and infrastructure- would have gone a long way to assuaging the hate, don't you think?

[CTyankee]

46. Wasn't the book "Blowback" about this?

[taterguy]

16. Tom Hanks is an arms merchant?

I did not know that

[Skarbrowe]

20. Yep. The Americans with a spattering of other countries supplied

the Afghani Mujahideen with Stinger missiles to shoot down Russian helicopters that were blowing away towns in Afghanistan. I've read the long complicated version of what we did there a couple times, but it boils down to, yes, we supplied the weapons that ended up in the hands of the future Taliban. Afghanistan was left in ruins after the war with the Soviets and tribal infighting. We left the Afghani's on their own the minute the Russians pulled out. Eh, a bit more complicated than that, things always are, but it did set the stage for a perfect place for radical Islamists to train because we just didn't care all that much once we help "defeat" communist Russia. All we ever worried about was communism. It was the communist leaning Afhgani tribes ( more secular and progressive, therefore hated by the more radical religious tribes (the Mujahideen) ) that got the Soviets to come into Afghanistan in the first place. Oh, and oil and geographical positioning and all the usual suspects.

I wish I could remember more, but I do know for sure that we help supply the stinger missiles and that they literally brought down the Soviet Army and booted them out of the country. Then, we left all that weaponry in Afghanistan and just went away. That might be why even Democrats who really want to get us out of Iraq are a bit hesitant. We sure know how to make major messes in the world. Plus, there still a ton of war profiteering money to be made on both Iraq and Aghanistan and where ever else we can "sell" war.

I haven't seen the movie yet. I'm not sure I want to after reading so much about it. I'm a Tom Hanks fan most of the time, so I'll probably catch it on cable. Thought I should get back on topic. Sorry.

[durrrty libby]

27. Thanks, that's about what I recall. I was curious as to how Charlie Wilson

fit into it and if the movie was honest.

Happy Holidays

[Skarbrowe]

35. I need to find the books I read on the subject. The name Charlie Wilson

didn't ring a bell, but I have a lousy memory. I'm sure someone on here knows what book I'm talking about. Oh, I know one of the books was called "Ghost Wars" by Steve Coll. Charlie Wilson is mentioned quite a bit. Just looked at my book shelf. I also just watched the two hour History Channel "Charlie Wilson's War" and I don't think I need to see the movie now. I still wonder the real motive behind that rich Texas woman's bleeding heart for Afghanistan. The whole History Channel show was odd and it appears they've made the movie out to be a comedy. It sure doesn't come across as a comedy when you read about it.

Oh, and I see someone for some reason brought up Iran/Contra. ?? Well, I still need to read about that because I admit to not knowing as much about that as I should or could.

[Name removed]

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[alarimer]

53. I think she was a staunch conservative, anti-Communist

and nothing else mattered. No one cared about Afghanistan after the Soviets left.

Iran/Contra was going on at about the same time. Wilson and company were paranoid (as I recall from the book) when some of their funds were accidentally parked in the account meant for that other illegal project. I can't remember if the story on Iran/Contra had come out yet or not but they were worried that the public outrage over that would stop their project and leave the Afghans without anuy weapons.

[EVDebs]

43. Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism

http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine

Afganistan and then Iraq are now in 'shock'. The corporations that ensure this, see the movie The Corporation

http://www.thecorporation.com/index.cfm?page_id=312

pathologically preys on these victims under the guise of helping them. Victims include the US taxpayers and military, btw.

[dysfunctional press]

24. do you even know the iran/contra story...?

:shrug:

please enlighten yourself.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

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[lastliberalintexas]

29. Because if we'd listened to Charlie, the world would be a better place

Charlie wanted money to help rebuild Afghanistan after the Soviet pullout, a sort of Marshall Plan for the Middle East. Unfortunately the dolts in control wouldn't hear of it, the Taliban took over the Mujahaddin, al Quaeda buddied up with the Taliban, and the rest is history. Oh yeah, along the way, the Taliban leaders became rather friendly with a certain Texas governor- and I don't mean Ann.

Charlie certainly was not perfect, but then he never claimed to be. It would actually do us all well to revisit much of what happened back then so that we can understand better what's happening now. And if this movie is what it takes, then so be it.



Disclaimer- I worked for Charlie for a very short time, so I do admit that I have certain biases in his favor.

[EVDebs]

44. 'dolts in control' also were busy playing with BCCI at the time eom

[Alameda]

58. Charlie Wilson

Yes, I read the book and was amazed! It is very much worth reading. There were a series of events, Charlie's heart problems, Zia's death, Chernobyl, the fall of the Soviet Empire. I want to see the movie, but I have little faith it will have the details the book has. A very interesting and well worth it read.

[NoPasaran]

19. Yes, go see it

Saw it today and I give it :thumbsup:

[EVDebs]

21. Skip this propaganda and rent Three Days Of The Condor instead

"The exception to CIA incompetence was the arming of Afgan mujahedeen", according to the author of the newly released Charlie Wilson's War

The Largest Covert Operation in CIA History
By Chalmers Johnson
http://hnn.us/articles/1491.html

Too bad that's complete bullshit and yes folks, we're faced with further blowback. The CIA continues to piss in the headwind.

Skip this propaganda film. The CIA screwed up and won't face up to the heroin and the jihadis they've armed.

[SergeyDovlatov]

25. why is this movie propaganda?

Is it pro CIA movie?

[KoKo]

38. Then rent Michael Clayton.....n/t

[JackRiddler]

40. thx for linking to excellent article debunking the CIA propaganda

A must-read by Chalmers Johnson.

(...)

During Avrakotos's time in Greece, the CIA was instrumental in destroying Greek freedom and helping to turn the country into probably the single most anti-American democracy on Earth today. Incredibly, Crile describes this as follows: "On April 21, 1967, he got one of those breaks that can make a career. A military junta seized power in Athens that day and suspended democratic and constitutional government." Avrakotos became the CIA's chief liaison with the Greek colonels. After the fall of the colonels' brutally fascist regime, the 17 November terrorist organization assassinated the CIA's Athens station chief, Richard Welch, on Dec. 23, 1975, and "Gust came to be vilified in the Greek radical press as the sinister force responsible for most of the country's many ills." He left the country in 1978 but could not get another decent assignment -- he tried for Helsinki -- because the head of the European Division regarded him as simply too uncouth to send to any of its capitals. He sat around Langley for several years without work until he was recruited by John McGaffin, head of the Afghan program. "If it's really true that you have nothing to do," McGaffin said, "why not come upstairs? We're killing Russians."

(...)


Wilson was not discriminating in his largess. He also became a supporter of Anastasio "Tacho" Somoza, the West Point graduate and dictator of Nicaragua who in 1979 was swept away by popular fury. Before that happened, President Carter tried to cut the $3.1-million annual U.S. aid package to Nicaragua, but Wilson, declaring Somoza to be "America's oldest anti-Communist ally in Central America," opposed the president and prevailed.

Wilson soon discovered that all of the CIA's budget and 40 percent of the Pentagon's budget is "black," hidden from the public and even from Congress. As a member of the defense subcommittee, he could arrange to have virtually any amount of money added to whatever black project he supported. So long as Wilson did favors for other members on the subcommittee, such as supporting defense projects in their districts, they would never object to his private obsessions.

(...)

After retiring from Congress in 1996, (Wilson) became a lobbyist for Pakistan under a contract that paid him $30,000 a month.

(...)

Crile knows a lot about these matters and presents them in a dramatic manner. There are, however, one or two items that he appears unaware of or is suppressing. For the CIA legally to carry out a covert action, the president must authorize a document called a finding. Crile repeatedly says that Carter signed such a finding ordering the CIA to provide covert backing to the moujahedeen after the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan on Dec. 24, 1979. The truth of the matter is that Carter signed the finding on July 3, 1979, six months before the Soviet invasion, and he did so on the advice of his national security advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski, in order to try to provoke a Russian incursion. Brzezinski has confirmed this sequence of events in an interview with a French newspaper, and former CIA Director Robert M. Gates says so explicitly in his 1996 memoirs. It may surprise Charlie Wilson to learn that his heroic moujahedeen were manipulated by Washington like so much cannon fodder in order to give the USSR its own Vietnam. The moujahedeen did the job, but as subsequent events have made clear, they may not be grateful to the United States.

[EVDebs]

41. It reads almost like Forbidden Truth, yet the CIA/Hollywood connections just keep putting it out

And Carter's connections to BCCI don't get much ink either (read Outlaw Bank and the wikipedia link at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_Credit_and_Commerce_International ). The CIA's connections to the bank are surely not getting much press either.

It looks more and more like the late Sen Moynihan's ideas about disbanding the CIA (much as JFK's musings which got him whacked) get validated daily. What use is the 'intelligence' agency when it gets end-runned by rogue groups like Office of Special Plans

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Special_Plans

or the White House Iraq Group ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Iraq_Group

It seems that the cadre of original Knights of Malta, that formed the leadership of the CIA from its founding, really do have a separate allegiance than to the Constitution of the United States. Their oath reaffirms that belief:

"I do now denounce and disown any allegiance as due to any heretical king, prince, or State, named Protestant or Liberals, or obedience to any of their laws, magistrates, or officers."

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_malta02.htm

William 'Wild Bill' Donovan, William Casey, William Colby, James Jesus Angleton, Allen Dulles, Rhinehard Gehlen (of Operation Paperclip fame), and most recently Blackwater's Joseph Schmitz, were/are KOM members.

[Poiuyt]

22. Reagan officials: Charlie Wilson’s War is ‘left-wing myth.’

Reagan officials: Charlie Wilson’s War is ‘left-wing myth.’

The Washington Times writes that, “Conservative officials who served in the Reagan administration are upset by the left-wing slant of the new movie” — Charlie Wilson’s War. They “said the movie promotes the left-wing myth that the CIA-led operation funded Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda and ultimately produced” the 9/11 attacks. “The officials blamed the anti-Reagan slant of the film on the movie’s screenwriter, Aaron Sorkin.”

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/22/reagan-officials-charlie-wilsons-war-is-left-wing-myth/

[tabasco]

23. Reagan was a piece of shit who gave nerve agent to SaddamHussein.

When they screech "he gassed his own people" they forget to tell you that Ronald fucking Reagan gave him the "gas."

The whole country started swirling down the toilet thanks to fascist puppet Reagan and the idiots who glorify him.

These assholes would have us believe Ronald Reagan singlehandedly won the Cold War when the Cold War started in 1945.

Fuck the liars and idiots who support the human garbage known as Ronald Reagan.

[EVDebs]

42. The movie trailers say Wilson singlehandedly brought down the USSR

and no mention is made of ANY connections to 9-11 'blowback'. The CIA's 'greatest victory', nowadays, appears almost Pyhrric.

[Metta]

31. Alternet says it contains lies and stereotypical jokes.

http://www.alternet.org/story/71286/ Also says that CW and the CIA were directly resonsible for setting the stage for 9/11.

[EVDebs]

50. See post #21 and read the Chalmers Johnson article. CIA only does blowback

This Afgan op was supposed to be a triumph for the CIA. Instead it's another in a long series of screwups.

[Metta]

52. Thands for the tip.

I always apppreciate correct information, especially around this kind of stuff.

[burrowowl]

32. I was very disappointed in the stars of this film

whom I generally like.

Good article on film:

http://www.alternet.org/stories/71286/

[soothsayer]

34. I thought the trailers looked stupid.

They gave it that jive quality, the same way the trashed up the Petey Green movie. Looks silly and... feh! I ain't goin'.

[ellisonz]

36. I support Charlie Wilson.

[0007]

37. For what? In fact what do ya mean? nt

[ellisonz]

45. To win Cold War.

[EVDebs]

51. That war was already 'won' economically and the CIA knew it

The CIA's Polish operations tied to the Vatican were the real ender to the Cold War, not this Afgan fiasco that is now major league BLOWBACK resulting in 9-11 ultimately. And many think that was MIHOP or LIHOP by the CIA.

We'd have to examine the finanical shenanigans of the Banco Ambrosiano and Banca Nazionale del Lavoro, Kissinger, and Iraq funding.

Read Spider’s Web: The Secret History of How the White House Illegally Armed Iraq, by Alan Friedman.

http://www.moscowfood.coop/archive/friedman.html (this is from Moscow, Idaho, btw, not some commie source)

The key phrase is "illegally armed" Iraq; for those of you who think this stuff was just a one-time thing with our 'intelligence community'.

[ellisonz]

54. Learn to take a joke...

Besides, you don't think:

fficial Soviet figures:
14,453 killed,
53,753 wounded,
417 missing,
415,932 sick.<6>
Revised estimate: 26,000 killed.<7>
DRA: 200,000 total(est.)<8>

Wasn't a serious blow?

[EVDebs]

55. I'm more concerned about the blow-BACK

3,000 dead on 9-11, approaching 4,000 dead in Iraq/Afganistan, 20,000 wounded +

Isn't still an ongoing blow don't you think ? Of course of more concern is to keep oil prices sufficiently high to keep the oil companies happy,

read:

"The British warned in their assessment that any occupation of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Abu Dhabi might have to last as long as 10 years. The use of force would also anger and alienate Arab countries and irritate the Soviet Union, although a military confrontation with the country would be unlikely, the document stipulated."

Document reveals Nixon plan to seize Arab oil fields
'70s embargo sparked 'last resort' measure, says British memo

by Lizette Alvarez, New York Times
Friday, January 2, 2004
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/01/02/MNG8G427D61.DTL

Meaning that since the failure of the Enron pipeline and the ten year time line the Bush administration keeps pushing and the media keeps not reporting on, we'll be in Iraq until at least 2013.

The 'forbidden truth' of all this is that when big corporations don't get their way the US military and taxpayers pay, dearly. Your dream of CIA 'success' ignores the fact that the USSR couldn't even FEED itself and our CIA knew that too. Read up on how our grain sales were keeping the doddering 'evil empire' afloat. If you care to take more laughs by the CIA and DoD !

Written up as a 'great grain robbery' in 1972 and again in 1977, the CIA was actually keeping the sinking Soviet ship afloat,

Another Soviet Grain Sting
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,919164,00.html

How's your sense of humor these days ? You support Charlie Wilson then you must be supporting the fruits of his labor. The CIA and Hollywood would have been better off keeping their big fat mouths shut instead of trumpeting a fiasco.

Helm's brother worked for one of the largest grain companies in the US/world while his niece works for the Taliban prior to 9-11

The Accidental Operative
Richard Helms’s Afghani Niece Leads Corps of Taliban Reps
by Camelia Fard & James Ridgeway
June 6th, 2001
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0124,ridgeway,25512,6.html

Go figure ! Also read post #21 and Chalmers Johnson's take on this 'success' of the CIA. Your idea of a "successful CIA operation" is hysterically funny to me.

[ljm2002]

47. Just talked to someone who saw it...

...a gal who was connected to the Afghan Resistance movement pre-9/11, including the Afghani leader (moussad?) who was assassinated days before 9/11 went down.

She said it was interesting and a good movie, and liked it a lot better than Kite Runner. Also, she has been to and briefly lived in Afghanistan.

FWIW

[goodgd_yall]

49. From the trailers, it doesn't look like a movie I'd like to see.

It's a bit hyped, don't you think?

[EVDebs]

56. For the titilation factor, rent Rodney Carrington's dvd instead (Show Them To Me etc.)

Much better than in this flick.

[LibertyLover]

57. Watched the History Channel program the other night

on the real Charlie Wilson's War and found it very interesting. So my husband got me the book for Yule. I'll wait until the movie is on DVD to see it, but it looks interesting.

[Marnieworld]

59. I saw it and would not recommend it

Normally I love any Mike Nichols or Tom Hanks film but it was a waste of time. How can anyone get excited about that war when we now know of this horrible blowback that we are experiencing because of it? Nothing to celebrate, and the consequences are only vaguely alluded to at the end. Also I can never really stomach Julia Roberts and this film doesn't make the effort worthwhile. Pointless waste of time.