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I just don't get it... How can anyone support this candidate?

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JMDEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 04:53 PM
Original message
I just don't get it... How can anyone support this candidate?
Edited on Thu Dec-20-07 04:55 PM by JMDEM
Gave Bush authorization to go to war with Iran.

Listed as 1 of top 12 obstructionists to Congressional investigations by Siebel Edmonds.

Supported every Bush appointee in the last 4 years.

#1 in taking Corporate Donations this campaign, and in fact DEFENDS this position as being GOOD.

Of the top 3 Den candidates -- has WORST negative ratings

Of the top 3 Dem candidates -- listed as LEAST LIKELY to defeat Republicans.

Caught in multiple, glaring, contradictions during the Dem debates.

Caught "planting" bloggers in blogs all over the internet to push pro-candidate posts way up.

Their campaign has resorted to at least three ROVIAN super-sleazeball attacks in the last week. Yet the candidate claims no involvement with these.

In reading thread after thread after thread on DU, I never see any POSITIVE discussion of this candidate's positions by the candidate's supporters -- only attacking the candidate's detractors in one form or another.

I just don't get it -- and I am really afraid for our Democracy.


Edit: changed "knowledge of sleazeball tactics to "involvement with..."

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qwertyMike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. Who are you talking about?
Edited on Thu Dec-20-07 04:58 PM by qwertyMike
Fill in blanks -------
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. Let me help. The blanks are filled with shit!!!!
This op is just more of the same ol' same ol'. Give it a rest, please.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #21
65. If you don't the like the thread why
are you kicking it? Just to act all authoritarian?
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ithinkmyliverhurts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. How indeed?
I find this candidate troubling.
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billybob537 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm for Edwards!
guess you're not a Hillary fan!
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Liberalynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
79. I am leaning more towards Edwards every day,
Edited on Fri Dec-21-07 11:06 AM by Liberalynn
although I haven't ruled any one out.

I am really getting sick of the primary stuff. I just wish it was over all ready. Its just been way too long. I just wish none of the states had decided to move up their primaries, its made the election process way too long.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
4. Here's how...
Senator Clinton supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Humane Society of the United States 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Trust for Historic Preservation 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Education Association 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Wilderness Coalition 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Children's Defense Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Association of University Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Organization for Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 91 percent in 2006.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 100 percent in 2005

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence 100 percent from 1988-2003 (Senate) or 1991-2003 (House).

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Public Health Association 80 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Service Employees International Union 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers 84 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Worker 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees 88 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of Government Employees 83 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Committee for an Effective Congress 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 100 percent in 2005.

According to the National Journal - Composite Liberal Score's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on economic, defense and foreign policy issues than 80 percent of the Senators.

According to the National Journal - Liberal on Social Policy's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on social policy issues than 83 percent of the Senators.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Alliance for Retired Americans 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans 92 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Bread for the World 100 percent in 2003-2004.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Partnership for the Homeless 100 percent in 2003-2004.
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=WNY99268

She was promoting universal coverage before it was cool. Furthermore she helped to create the SCHIP program. And most importantly she was dead on in the debate the other week where she said political will was the most important thing needed to push health care reform through and we know without a doubt she has that.

She has fougt unrelentingly for a woman's right to choose as well as women's rights both domestically and abroad

Create a Strategic Energy Fund - Hillary has proposed a Strategic Energy Fund that would inject $50 billion into research, development and deployment of renewable energy, energy efficiency, clean coal technology, ethanol and other homegrown biofuels. Hillary's proposal would give oil companies a choice: invest in renewable energy or pay into the fund. Hillary's proposal would also eliminate oil company tax breaks and make sure that oil companies pay their fair share for drilling on public lands. Instead of sending billions of dollars to the Middle East for their oil, Hillary's proposal will create a new clean energy industry in America and create tens of thousands of jobs here.

Champion a Market-Based "Cap and Trade" Approach - Hillary supports a market-based, cap and trade approach to reducing carbon emissions and fight global warming. This approach was used successfully to limit sulfur dioxide and reduce levels of acid rain in the 1990s. By capping the amount of emissions in the environment and allowing corporations to buy and sell permits, this approach offers corporations a flexible, cost-efficient method to do their share to reduce emissions and combat global warming. The program will reduce emissions, drive the development of clean technologies, and create a market for projects that store carbon dioxide.

20% Renewable Electricity Standard by 2020 - Hillary believes we need to shift our reliance on high carbon electricity sources to low-carbon electricity sources by investing in renewable energy sources, such as solar and wind. As President, she'll work to require power companies to obtain 20 percent of their energy from renewable sources by 2020.

Make Federal Buildings Carbon Neutral - Hillary believes that the federal government should lead the way in reducing carbon emissions from buildings. Buildings account for 40 percent of U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, and the federal government owns or leases more than 500,000. Hillary would require all federal buildings to steadily increase the use of green design principles, energy efficient technologies, and to generate energy on-site from solar and other renewable sources. By 2030, all new federal buildings and major renovations would be carbon neutral, helping to fight global warming and cutting the $5.6 billion that the federal government spends each year on heating, cooling and lighting.

Protecting Against Exposure to Toxic Chemicals - Hillary wants to make the products we use safer, especially for children. There are tens of thousands of chemicals used in the U.S. and hundreds of new chemicals introduced each year, but little health testing is conducted for many of them. Hillary would require chemical companies to prove that new chemicals are safe before they are put on the market, and would set more stringent exposure standards for kids. She would also create a "priority list" of existing chemicals and require testing to make sure they are safe. To improve our understanding of the links between chemicals and diseases like cancer, Hillary would create an "environmental health tracking network" that ties together information about pollution and chronic diseases.

Hillary's Record

In the White House, Hillary led efforts to make adoption easier, to expand early learning and child care, to increase funding for breast cancer research, and to help veterans suffering from Gulf War syndrome who had too often been ignored in the past. She helped launch a national campaign to prevent teen pregnancy and helped create the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997, which moved children from foster care to adoption more quickly and the number of children who have moved out of foster care into adoption has increased dramatically.

She was instrumental in designing and championing the State Children's Health Insurance Program, which has provided millions of children with health insurance. She battled the big drug companies to force them to test their drugs for children and to make sure all kids get the immunizations they need through the Vaccines for Children Program. Immunization rates dramatically improved after the program launched.

Hillary has been a leading member of the Environment and Public Works Committee since she was elected to the Senate. Today, she chairs the Superfund and Environmental Health Subcommittee and in that capacity has promoted legislation to evaluate and protect against the impact of environmental pollutants on people's health and clean up toxic waste.

Global warming and Clean Air
Spoken out forcefully about the need to tackle global warming in hearings, speeches, rallies and on the Senate floor and co-sponsored "cap and trade" legislation.
Worked to reduce air pollution that causes asthma and other respiratory diseases by writing and helping to pass new laws to clean up exhaust from school buses, and other diesel-powered equipment.
Supported legislation to reduce pollution from power plants, including harmful emissions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, mercury, and carbon dioxide - emissions that contribute to poor air quality, smog, acid rain, global warming, and mercury contamination of fish.
Aggressively fought the Bush Administration's ill-advised attempts to weaken clean air laws.

Improving Water Quality and Protecting Drinking Water
Helped to overturn the Bush Administration's attempt to allow more arsenic in drinking water.
Cosponsored legislation to protect lakes, rivers and coastal waters by fighting the spread of destructive invasive species, such as the zebra mussel.
Helped ot pass new clean water laws, including measures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

Protecting Public Lands
Fought oil company efforts to pen the Artic Wildlife Refuge in Alask and Pacific and Atlantic coastal waters to drilling.
Cosponsored the Roadless Area Conservation Act, which prohibits road construction and logging in unspoiled, roadless areas of the National Forest System, and voted for additional funding and manpower to combat forest fires in the west.

Reducing Dangerous Chemicals and Cleaning Up Hazardous Waste
Supported legislation to restore the "polluter pays" principle by reinstating a chemical company fee to fund cleanups of highly contaminated "Superfund" waste sites.
Cosponsored the "kids-Safe Chemical Act," which requires chemical companies to provide health and safety before putting new chemicals in consumer products.
Proposed legislation to create an environmental health tracking network to enable us to better understand the impact of environmental hazards on human health and well-being.

Tackling the Toxic Legacy of 9/11
Pushed for health care benefits for first responders, residents and others whose health has been impacted from breathing the toxic dust and smoke in New York City after 9/11.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/8/20/134810/677

Hillary Clinton co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a state-level alliance with the Children's Defense Fund, in 1977. In late 1977, President Jimmy Carter (for whom she had done 1976 campaign coordination work in Indiana) appointed her to the board of directors of the Legal Services Corporation, and she served in that capacity from 1978 through the end of 1981. For much of that time she served as the chair of that board, the first woman to do so. During her time as chair, funding for the Corporation was expanded from $90 million to $300 million, and she successfully battled against President Ronald Reagan's initial attempts to reduce the funding and change the nature of the organization.

Following the November 1978 election of her husband as Governor of Arkansas, Clinton became First Lady of Arkansas in January 1979, her title for a total of twelve years. Bill appointed her chair of the Rural Health Advisory Committee the same year, where she successfully obtained federal funds to expand medical facilities in Arkansas' poorest areas without affecting doctors' fees.

Hillary Clinton chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee from 1982 to 1992, where she sought to bring about reform in the state's court-sanctioned public education system. One of the most important initiatives of the entire Clinton governorship, she fought a prolonged but ultimately successful battle against the Arkansas Education Association to put mandatory teacher testing as well as state standards for curriculum and classroom size in place. She introduced Arkansas' Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth in 1985, a program that helps parents work with their children in preschool preparedness and literacy.

And a bit of stuff from the White House years:

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage. She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare. She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.

The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome. Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice. In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage.<124> She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare.<125> She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.<43> The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome.<43> Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice.<43> In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.<43> As First Lady, Clinton hosted numerous White House Conferences, including ones on Child Care (1997),<126> Early Childhood Development and Learning (1997),<127> and Children and Adolescents (2000),<128> and the first-ever White House Conferences on Teenagers (2000)<129> and Philanthropy (1999).<130>

Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

"...Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries..."

More:
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/israel/index.cfm
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/darfur


The following are polls from progressive groups, rating Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, on how often they vote for progressive issues. For each group, http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011142.php

Clinton Vs. Barack Obama (progressivepunch)
Overall Progressive Score: 92% 90%
Aid to Less Advantaged People at Home and Abroad: 98% 97%
Corporate Subsidies 100% N/A
Education, Humanities and the Arts 88% 100%
Environment 92% 100%
Fair Taxation 97% 100%
Family Planning 88% 80%
Government Checks on Corporate Power 95% 97%
Healthcare 98% 94%
Housing 100% 100%
Human Rights & Civil Liberties 82% 77%
Justice for All: Civil and Criminal 94% 91%
Labor Rights 91% 91%
Making Government Work for Everyone, Not Just the Rich or Powerful 94% 90%
War and Peace 80% 86%
easures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

HILLARY'S EXPERIENCE ON THE WORLD STAGE:

Her historic speech at the UN Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing in 1995 not only galvanized women around the world, it helped spawn a movement that led to advances politically, legally, economically, and socially for women in many countries over the next decade. Among other initiatives, she spearheaded the Clinton Administration's efforts to combat the global crisis of human trafficking. She persuaded the First Ladies of the Americas to use their collective power to eradicate measles and improve girls' education throughout the western Hemisphere. And she is widely credited with helping women in Kuwait finally win the right to vote.

As First Lady and now as a two-term senator who represents the most ethnically diverse state in the nation and who sits on the Armed Services Committee, Hillary Clinton has become a fixture on international issues over the past 15 years. She has traveled to more than 80 countries, going from barrios to rural villages to meetings with heads of state. She has consulted with dozens of world leaders - Nelson Mandela, King Abdullah, Tony Blair among them -- on matters as diverse as America and NATO's roles in Kosovo, eradicating poverty in the Third World, and the plight of women living under the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Today, she is one of the most influential voices in the world on human rights, democracy, and the promotion of a "new internationalism" in foreign affairs that calls for a balanced use of military force, diplomacy, and social development to strengthen American interests and security globally.

While American First Ladies historically have made great (and often overlooked) contributions to our nation, Hillary Clinton's wide-ranging experience on international issues as First Lady is unprecedented. Indeed, she is the only First Lady to have delivered foreign policy addresses at major gatherings of the United Nations, the World Bank, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the World Economic Forum.

Hillary Clinton has been fighting for the rights of children for special needs for decades. In her first job out of law school working for the Children's Defense Fund, she conducted research that led to Congress passing the Education for All Handicapped Children Act of 1975, the landmark bill mandating that all children with disabilities be educated in the public school system. later, she helped improve the education of children with special needs by working to reauthorize the Individuals with Disabilities in Education Act. In 2005, she sponsored an amendment to increase funding for the act by $4 billion dollars. She also cosponsored the Personal Excellence for Children with Disabilities Act, a bill that promised to help schools recruit and retain new special education teachers, and better prepare general education teachers and staff to work with children with special needs.

Most recently, she has called for greatly expanded funding to the National Institute for Health to investigate treatments for children with disabilities. And she has put forth a comprehensive and detailed plan to help children and families affected by autism, with numerous elements that correspond very closely to what families in the autism community have been demanding for years.
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ithinkmyliverhurts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Ohhhh, that's how.
Thanks.
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TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Now, now...we all know that emotion overrides fact.
And, hyperbole is king!
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. yeah, but aside from that...
no one is perfect, every politician plays politics, balancing out everything is difficult and I still don't like her Iraq stance. Thanks for the list, really, thank you.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
57. I don't know if you have this info to be balanced with everything else...
HRC is backing the DLC plan to push what looks like the exact same republican plan to privatize social security.

The DLC's American Dream Initiative includes American Dream Accounts, which is nothing more than the same thing that the republicans were trying to force down our throats a year and a half ago. I don't know if they have changed the wording on the website or if I am not seeing it, but when I first came across this info their website used the same language as the republicans, "personal/private social security accounts".

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253993&kaid=86&subid=194



Here's a website where HRC claims ownership of the plan to privatize social security:

DLC | Press Release | July 25, 2005
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton Accepts Position as Chair of the DLC's 'American Dream Initiative'

~snip~

"...Sen. Clinton said: "I am proud to take on the task of leading the American Dream Initiative for the DLC..."

http://www.ppionline.org/ndol/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=85&subid=108&contentid=253475
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #57
64. Thanks. I will vote for her in the primary with grave reservations, if
she gets the nomination. I have reservations, quite big ones. Thanks for the info too.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Funny that you guessed it was Clinton.
Your regurgitation of these soundbytes aside, that says a lot.

Rated 60% by the ACLU. You forgot that one.
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TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. Try 75%
http://action.aclu.org/site/VoteCenter?congress=110&repId=455&session_num=0&page=legScore

I presume that you got the 60% score from ontheissues.org. If so, please note that it's from 2002.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Thank you, I did.
Appreciate the correction.
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razors edge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #20
34. Is that a D,
or o D+?
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TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. If Kucinich is only an 89%, I'd say that they're grading on a curve.
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razors edge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. No doubt
bush makes her look like a Rhodes Scholar, um, wait..
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
24. Says a lot about JE that he got a 50% rating.
Actually, it doesn't say that much about either of them- not in isolation.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. I like my guy's 100%.
One of the reason's he's my candidate.
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TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. 89% lifetime
Certainly impressive. (I presume that you're talking about Kucinich. If not, my apologies.)
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Yep.
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JMDEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. This is positive information. I wish there was more of this on DU. NT.
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Yuugal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #12
74. Yeah me too
Because the first 5000 times I saw the exact same post spammed and wasted my life scrolling by it just weren't enough. :eyes:
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
60. And voted for the IWR
Left that one out, didn't we? And is good buddies with Rupert Murdock. Not to mention big business loves her. Oh yeah, then there's that hawkish position toward Iran -- pretty much not any different than Georgie boy. And then there's her version of universal health care which FORCES people to buy health insurance -- insurance companies love her for that one. And how long is it that we're supposed to stay in Iraq again? And that's just scratching the surface. Yeah, this one's a real peach she is. :puke:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
66. Your post is so
boring.
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Kucinich4America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
69. How many times are you Hillbots going to post this........
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #69
75. Rather thinking the same thing myself
It only comes acrosee as a (purposefully) huge list about only positives (or the positive twists) and no negatives a(and we all know there are many) that keeps getting copied, pasted, and inevitably crammed down our throats...rather like that candidate.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
73. It's harder to cut-and-paste lack of leadership
But I'll give it a shot


Senator Clinton said and did nothing to prevent the Senate confirmation of John Ashcroft.

Senator Clinton said and did nothing to prevent the Senate confirmation of Alberto Gonzales.

Senator Clinton said and did nothing regarding the failed Senate confirmation of John Bolton.

Senator Clinton voted FOR cloture on the nomination of corrupt corporatist Priscilla Owen, clearing the way for her confirmation to the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals.

Senator Clinton voted FOR cloture on the nomination of unqualified fascist Janice Rogers Brown, clearing the way for her confirmation to the DC Court of Appeals.

Senator Clinton voted FOR cloture on the nomination of religious zealot and homophobe William H. Pryor, clearing the way for his confirmation to the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals.

Senator Clinton voted FOR cloture on the nomination of John Roberts, clearing the way for his confirmation as Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court.

Senator Clinton said little or nothing during the Senate confirmation of Samuel Alito.

Senator Clinton missed the Senate confirmation vote on Michael Mukasey.

Senator Clinton said little or nothing during this summer's vote on the Iraq War Supplemental.

Senator Clinton said little or nothing during the vote to extend FISA.

Senator Clinton said little or nothing during Walter Reid scandal, even though she sits on the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Senator Clinton has said little or nothing during the current debate on Telecom Immunity.

Senator Clinton has said little or nothing during on the possible impeachment of Dick Cheney.

Senator Clinton has said little or nothing during on the possible impeachment of George Bush.

Senator Clinton has said little or nothing on the myriad scandals surrounding the current administration.

Senator Clinton campaigned for Joe Lieberman against Ned Lamont

Senator Clinton proposed legislation to ban flag burning.

Senator Clinton voted FOR the USAPATRIOT act.

Senator Clinton voted FOR the Iraq War Resolution.

Senator Clinton voted FOR the Kyl/Lieberman amendment.


This is just off the top of my head. I'm sure someone with a bit of time for research could double or triple this list.

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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
77. when you take two steps to the right for every one step to the left-
over time, you still end up going pretty far to the right.
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TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hyperbole is a wonderful thing.
"three ROVIAN super-sleazeball attacks"

Well, I'm sure glad that they weren't mega-sleazeball or ultra-sleazeball or ultimate-sleazeball attacks. 'Cause those are *really* bad.
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JMDEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Logan's post was positive. Yours is a typical attack. NT
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TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. That is one of the funniest things I have ever read on DU.
What do you think "Rovian super-sleazeball tactics" is, Mr. Positive?

That, my friend, is the epitome of an attack.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. LOL! call the irony police stat.
Your OP is a typical attack and it's littered with lies and innuendo.
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
58. LOL, coming from you, that is really funny with all your Edwards attack
Edited on Thu Dec-20-07 10:27 PM by EV_Ares
posts, gossip posts & the rest.

You just really get upset if you see something you feel is negative about Hillary don't you.
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desi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
37. And your laundry list of rw/*elw talking points is what?
Do you support a candidate or are you still "undecided?"



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JMDEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. You think I'm undecided?
And which of my points was an attack? They are all facts as far as I can see. Again, outside of ONE post here, the Hillary lovers attack attack attack without any substance. In fact -- how many of you guys are the infamous hillary plants we've been reading about -- with nothing to offer but attacks on hillary detractors?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #42
50. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #11
76. Completely unbalanced, and spammy, but positive. (NT)
Edited on Fri Dec-21-07 10:41 AM by Tesha
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. Many supporting this candidate are people who are leaning on the MSM to give them information n/t
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
67. Ya think!
Or they just make up shit as they go along.
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Bright Eyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
13. The media has chosen
All Hail President Clinton II!!

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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
54. You mean Corporate America has chosen and the media has fallen in line.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #54
81. The media are corporate Amerika. 5 (or is it 6, I always forget?) corporations own
everything the average sheeple hear, see, and (a few) read. These corporations are, in turn owned or controlled by other even larger corporations that have their agenda. IOW, Amerikan media is noting but the propaganda department for a corporate empire that is determined to rule the world for its exclusive benefit.



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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
14. I don't support her but I hate lies.
This is a flat out lie:

Supported every Bush appointee in the last 4 years.

Not even close to the truth. And much of the rest of your post is spin or hyperbole, such as this:

"Caught "planting" bloggers in blogs all over the internet to push pro-candidate posts way up."

I'm aware of one NH blog, Blue New Hampshire, that caught Clinton staffers blogging without identifying themselves. That's hardly "all over the internet".

And this:

"Caught in multiple, glaring, contradictions during the Dem debates."

And I could do a similar post about any of the other candidate- but I wouldn't lie. Maybe I should.


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JMDEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
43. Now THAT'S the funniest thing I've ever read on DU
Cali -- who spends half her posts defending Hillary, does not support hillary. Gimme a break.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #43
51. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #43
68. I resent having to defend her.
but I don't support her. I have a habit of defending Dems. So I can understand Cali.
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
59. Don't you wonder why so many people know you support Hillary?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. not at all. I fully recognize that so many people THINK I support her
Edited on Thu Dec-20-07 10:59 PM by cali
despite the evidence to the contrary, simply because I do defend her against some of the bullshit and hate- yes, hate that's spewed here. And as a longtime feminist, the sexist crap really, really sticks in my craw. Anyone with an ounce of honesty, or an ounce of decency, would see that I've written hundreds of posts and a dozen threads critical of her.

You don't "know" that I support Clinton. You want to believe that. If you can't be honest about that, well.....

Edited to add: And if I did support her, why would you think I wouldn't do it vigorously and openly? That tends to be my style. I don't mince words and I don't lie about candidates. I say what I think. In fact, I don't do your passive agressive shit, as exemplified in the post I'm responding too.
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #61
72. LOL, you say I want to believe you support Clinton. I really don't care
Edited on Thu Dec-20-07 11:44 PM by EV_Ares
if you do or if you don't no more than anyone else in here who does or doesn't. We all have a right to support whoever we choose. It is your hilarious denial of supporting her which is probably the strangest act here when it is obvious in almost all of your posts that you do. I also don't think the number of people who appear to think you support her can all be wrong. Maybe you just like to get attention, don't know and doesn't matter.

You say defend her against bullshit when you put out more or at least as much as anyone here. That is ok too, your right but funny to watch you always accuse others of what you do yourself.

In closing you might want to check out "passive aggressive". Also, I really do enjoy your posts, a little childish at times but fun to read.

Happy holidays to you and your family as well, you won't have to put up with me for a few days and I know you will miss me.

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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
16. I don't know, to be honest. Everything you said is right on. NT
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
17. Good post even the Clinton supporters knew who you were talking about right away, eom.
Edited on Thu Dec-20-07 05:09 PM by EV_Ares
K&R this baby.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Yes
we're used to spotting the blatant lies.

She didn't support every Bush appointee - that's just nonsense. The rest is hyperbole and opinion.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Bullshit is the new fragrance de jour in DU.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
18. Attacks like JMDEM's against Obama are very rare on DU.
Most consider Obama untouchable! Thanks for showing you have the courage to attack Obama, JMDEM!
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JMDEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
44. Spin spin spin, Hillary supporter...
Obama has little to attack except perhaps his inexperience and his "present" votes. And guess who's spearheading those attacks -- none other than HillBilly herself. So I don't have to do that. It's taken care of, fairly and very unfairly.

P.S. -- I'm not an Obama supporter. But his "negativity" rating with me is pretty low. Not much negative there.

If you want to start up your own anti-Obama thread, feel free to do so.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
25. Oh. Tell. Me. More.
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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
28. Posts like this win sympathy for Hillary
Edited on Thu Dec-20-07 05:37 PM by Onlooker
It's such manipulative bullshit that it makes me skeptical about Obama supporters. They are so blindly ambitious that they offer no objectivity whatsoever. I support Obama, but the difference between Hillary and Obama is very small. She did a few bad things, but overall her record is quite progressive on social issues and on foreign policy she, like Edwards, has largely come around.

Obama apparently misses votes or simply votes present. He hasn't shown leadership, and that's served him well. But of course, that's the same kind of bullshit argument that the OP is using.

Where did you get that info, OP? From what site? Be honest now.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. What a sensible post. Therre are too few here.
I prefer Obama to Clinton too, though he's not "my" candidate, and I agree that there aren't huge differences, policy wise.
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JMDEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #28
45. Where did I get this info? Mainly from THIS SITE nt.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #45
55. That explains a lot...
:rofl:
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
29. Well we see over and over they bash Clinton
I guess it's because they are so damn afraid of her they have to put bullshit up every ten seconds. If they WERE SO DAMN SCARED OF HER they wouldn't do it over and over and over. But they mess their pants when they see their candidate is so undecided, so ill prepared, so light weight so dumb down ,,,what do they do bash Hillary ....
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
33. Because she's a political rock star...
...just as Giuliani is still popular nationally despite having made about every wrong move possible.

I'll still take Hillary over any Republican, and she will easily defeat whichever craven whore the GOP nominates.
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onethatcares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
35. where did jmdem go after the original post?
no further input or what/
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JMDEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #35
47. Because unlike the person who said I should be thrown in jail for not having a life...
I do have a life. Duh -- like having to work for a living.
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
38. Supported EVERY Bush appointee?
No need to guess.
Some of HRC's record, as long as it's out there:http://votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=55463

06/11/2007 Attorney General No Confidence Vote Y
03/20/2007 United States Attorneys Act of 2007 Y
12/07/2006 Andrew von Eschenbach, Commissioner of Food and Drugs Y
12/06/2006 Robert Gates, Secretary of Defense Y
05/26/2006 Michael Hayden Confirmation N
01/31/2006 Samuel Alito, Associate Justice N
09/27/2005 John Roberts, Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court N
06/20/2005 Second cloture motion on John Bolton, Ambassador to UN N
06/14/2005 Thomas B. Griffith, US Circuit Judge N
06/09/2005 Janice R Brown, US Circuit Court N
06/09/2005 William H. Pryor, Jr., US Circuit Judge N
06/09/2005 Richard A Griffin, US Circuit Judge Y
06/09/2005 David W. McKeague, US Circuit Judge Y
05/26/2005 First cloture motion on John Bolton, Ambassador to UN N
05/25/2005 Priscilla R. Owen, US Circuit Judge N
05/24/2005 Motion to invoke cloture on Priscilla R. Owen Y
04/21/2005 John Negroponte, Director of National Intelligence Y
02/15/2005 Michael Chertoff, Secretary of Homeland Security Y
02/03/2005 Alberto R. Gonzales, for Attorney General N


There were some in there I don't like, but since the OP said "every" Bush appointee,
I really and truly did not know who the OP meant until I read on. After all, HRC voted
against Gonzo and the putrid Roberts and Alito, as well as against Hayden, Owen, Bolton,
and Pryor. I should have known, all the same, I guess. Too bad "get a life" is not enforceable
in a court of law. All this negative crap may not make me have an opposite reaction and support
the one being dissed, but it sure doesn't sway me against anyone either, especially when peppered
with such obviously false generalities. HRC has enough genuine negatives that I would have thought
no one really opposed to her has to resort to (let's be polite) erroneous generalities. It really
gives rise to the question of the origin of such a post. Really an opposed Democrat? Maybe, I guess.
Could have fooled me, though.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. It's the theory of the Big Lie.
Amazingly easy to get away with.
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JMDEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. "Too bad "get a life" is not enforceable"
Well, if Hillary carries out with her continuation of Bush's erosion of civil liberties, then it will become a law, and maybe we can throw you in Gitmo too.

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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. If I get my way, the candidate (and next president) will be someone else
But just in case, I'll keep my Spanish fluent, and escape disguised as one of the hired staff........
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. bwahahaha
hoisted by your own petard, and still spinning. You are a piece of work, but an amusing one.

:rofl:
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #46
62. bwahahaha. Now you're hankering to throw me in Gitmo? Want to waterboard me too?
Too funny. And you claim to be a progressive? You're losing it, pumpkin.

:rofl:
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
40. Knew it wasn't MY candidate by the first line
Dennis Kucinich has NEVER supported the Iraq War.
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
49. So who's YOUR candidate, homey?
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
53. It is amazing to me that the poster who posted this thread really believes what he says
"resorted to at least three rovian super..." That is simply a lie. And, when Obama resorted to attacks, when Edwards resorted to attacks..where was your outrage?

Double standard. Backwards and in high heels.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
56. When were they caught planting bloggers?
I knew they were doing it but I've never seen a report that they were caught. Did I miss something? Linky? :hi:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
63. Thanks, I forgot
about those "obstructionist" votes.

I wouldn't "get it", either, if I hadn't learned about infiltrators and "politics" for the last 7 years. It's a tragic farce and all we can do is try our best to stamp it out.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
70. Name recognition
and BC fans dreaming maybe? Could be a number of things.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
71. Which candidate supported every Bush appointee in the last 4 years?
John McCain?

:shrug:
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
78. I'm more worried that she'll have her justice dept. REFUSE to prosecute bushco.
Actually I fear this for all the candidates, except Kucinich.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
80. it sounds like pretty much all the dem candidates.
Take out one line or add another, it sounds like pretty much all the dem candidates.

"I never see any POSITIVE discussion of this candidate's positions..." Again, that sounds like many supporters of all the candidates.

I hope people remember who the enemy is-- the GOP... we seeem to be forgetting that these days.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #80
83. For someof us the real enemy is the corporate oligarchy we have now
Edited on Sat Dec-22-07 04:07 PM by truedelphi
And its continuation

I don't want a wolf in sheep's clothing.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
82. Hillary Clinton is an abomination...
Edited on Fri Dec-21-07 12:02 PM by TwoSparkles
...and I have never met a die-hard Hillary supporter in my life.

Let's just call a spade a spade. Most of her support online is
manufactured and paid for.

Don't worry about our democracy, because people do NOT like her.

She's in cahoots with the Bushies--and the power-elite, neocon
warmongers who are destroying this country and turning our
democracy into ripped shreds.

These people murder, lie, steal and do it without remorse. Are
we actually going to believe that they wouldn't dare fix a poll or
two...or three? (Why! That's just crazy talk!)

The only thing that warmongering, corrupt liar Hillary has going for
her right now is a few polls. Interesting that an onslaught of
them is disseminated when she's in terrible trouble in Iowa
and NH.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
84. YAWNNNNN!!
I bet they just love you over at the "other" website.

I really hate seeing crap like this even if it is about a Dem I am not backing.
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