What's your take on the fire?

[BuyingThyme]

[seemslikeadream]

1. What's your take on how I voted?

:hi:

[BuyingThyme]

8. I think Cheney put you up to it.

[terrya]

2. It was...a fire.

Sometimes, fires occur in buildings.

[aquart]

7. Yes, they occur in federal buildings ALL the time.

So how many do YOU count?

[BuyingThyme]

23. Actually, there have been a lot lately.

And they've apparently all been arson.

[dailykoff]

38. Like that one at the Pentagon a few years back.

Tragic ain't it.

[PVnRT]

20. Impossible!

It has to be arson, because that's what I want to believe it is. Therefore, you're an infiltrator. Prove that I'm wrong!

:sarcasm:

[walldude]

31. Last time there was a fire near the White House was 1814

At least as far as I could gather... That seems like long odds especially considering one of the offices involves was the WH communications office which is already under investigation for destroying millions of e-mails..

[Junkdrawer]

3. A "Just in case the SCOTUS rules aganst Executive Privilage" fire...

Why is this man smiling?

[RavensChick]

9. Like a cat that swallowed the canary!

He knows something and he ain't tellin'!

[shanti]

26. you notice that too, huh?

he and * ALWAYS looks like that!

[RavensChick]

77. That smirk always bugs me, tho'

All the more reason why I have my doubts he's "concerned" about what happened.

[Bongo Prophet]

32. Great image, Junkdrawer. we are thinking alike (I just hit another thread. oops.

This one is not as good. But you can tell how broken up he is.

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/12/20/cheney_wideweb__470x330,0.jpg


and this one has a caption perhaps too telling:
The blaze appeared to be located near Cheney’s ceremonial office.

[Annces]

4. Someone was playing with fire

And adults don't usually do that do they. I mean, I bet they don't even allow smoking cigarettes in the white house.

[dailykoff]

5. Remember the last days of Enron?

We've been down this road before.

[Occam Bandage]

6. C: No evidence was destroyed, nor has any claim of destroyed evidence been made,

nor will there be any claim of destroyed evidence. You give these guys too little credit; they're not the fucking Three Stooges.

[aquart]

12. True. These guys would insist on residuals.

Please, the only way they've gotten away with anything is because we have refused to enforce our own laws.

[CT_Progressive]

16. (X) Vote

[BuyingThyme]

18. It's my preliminary understanding that sensitive materials may have been damaged or lost.

I'm going to go ahead and equate sensitive materials with evidence, but only because I live in a Democracy under the Cheney regime.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2496650

[Occam Bandage]

21. I can't find that claim anywhere on MSNBC's site.

Their site claims, "The smoke appeared to come from an electrical closet on the building's second floor," and no stories make any claims about anything being damaged or lost. Unless Cheney was storing documents between modems and routers, I think we're good.

[BuyingThyme]

22. I think a DUer quoted from an on-air report.

(Judging from the quotes.)

[Occam Bandage]

24. And I'll take third-hand reports that "some documents may have been damaged"

to be about as valuable as they are. That is to say, not very. Until the White House gives any hint of an idea that any documents were damaged, I'm not even remotely convinced.

[BuyingThyme]

27. Well, they might not be at liberty to discuss whether or not said documents ever existed.

:hi:

[Occam Bandage]

28. The point of a fire would be to provide cover for not releasing documents.

If they never use it as an excuse, there's no justification for conspiracy.

[BuyingThyme]

29. But there's no justification to assume that the excuse would be used publicly.

[Occam Bandage]

34. They already have plenty of internal excuses. Documents are misfiled all the time.

Servers crash all the time. Stupid staffers throw away things all the time. And this, frankly, is so ridiculous an excuse that it would be rejected as "implausible" by a B-list sitcom, so we're not convincing anyone on the inside. The only thing it could possibly be used for is as a public cover--and they haven't shown the slightest indication that they're intending to do so.

[BuyingThyme]

36. Not as silly as deleting millions of emails while investigating

what happened to millions of emails.

[Beetwasher]

37. Or Destroying Torture Tapes After Being Specifically Told NOT TO

And then claiming that you didn't think the order applied to THOSE tapes. Yeah, they would never resort to ridiculous "b" level sitcom exuses. :eyes:

[Occam Bandage]

40. So the conspiracy theory has settled on,

"They did it to justify not handing over documents, but they won't ever let the public know that's the justification."

[BuyingThyme]

42. I don't suspect anybody has settled on anything.

[Beetwasher]

48. Says You. I Said No Such Thing, I ONLY RECOGNIZE IT'S POSSIBLE

That this was part of cover up. Unlike you who has already decided it's an accident based on nothing.

Why do you feel the need to makes shit up? It's very dishonest.

[abq e streeter]

47. These guys have nowhere near the class of the Stooges

in one movie after another , my boys wrecked the best laid plans of snooty rich people. If only Moe Larry and Curly were in charge instead of this crew of criminals.

[HughMoran]

75. My Vote gores here too

lol at reactionary polls!

[MNDemNY]

10. Other...It was a "Christmas Miracle".

[durtee librul]

25. Or.....someone finally pushed

start on the microwave

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. Don't know.

:shrug:

[Richard Steele]

13. If it wasn't a conspiracy to destroy evidence, it'll still be an excuse for not producing it. nm

[CT_Progressive]

14. Copy cat !

:)

[BuyingThyme]

19. What'd I copy?

[CT_Progressive]

30. My poll which is the same as this...

... and technically posted after yours, because I didn't see yours and had mine up in my editor for like 15 minutes because I had to step away from my keyboard for something.

But...

You copied ME !!!!!

:D

[BuyingThyme]

33. I'm watching.

:)

[Bucky]

15. ha-ha!! Christmas miracle!! Excellent! BUT... this is simply not Cheney's M.O.

He hides things. He hides himself. He does things in the dark. They never do headline grabbing subterfuge like this fire would have to be.

It's very typical of Bushies to fuck up and cause unintended disasters because they ignore basic safety regulations and ignore all forms of back-up precautions. But they are sneaky, not bold, people. They never seek headlines when they can accomplish as much by quietly hiding evidence instead.

[dailykoff]

39. 911 didn't grab headlines?

Oh wait, that was crazy Arab terrists.

[Occam Bandage]

41. It was.

[dailykoff]

43. Seeking to accomplish what exactly?

The deaths of a million Arabs maybe?

[Bucky]

49. I think they were after 72 virgins.

But seriously, if you want me to kill 3000 people you better give me 72 chicks with some experience.

[Occam Bandage]

73. There is an excellent book you should read. It's called "Messages to the World."

It's a collection of the writings of Osama bin Laden, through 2004. He is a very eloquent, very persuasive, and very wrong writer.

http://www.amazon.com/Messages-World-Statements-Osama-Laden/dp/1844670457

[Bucky]

50. People who think Bush's people could have organized 9-11 can't be reasoned with.

[BuyingThyme]

53. What of people who think nothing of a White House

that refused to properly investigate the biggest crime in the history of our country, going to the point of permanently withholding evidence and lying under oath?

[Bucky]

58. That would be me

I think nothing of a White House that refuses to properly investigate the biggest crime in our country, not just hiding evidence that could implicate their Saudi oil buddies, but actually undermining the whole system of legal justice that could ever hope to do so after they're gone.

I think less than nothing of them. My point was I just don't think they can organize big projects like 9-11 would have to be.

[BuyingThyme]

59. How 'bout the invasion of a defenseless nation?

And the murders of a million innocent people?

[Bucky]

63. Nope, not a fan of that either. But in case you weren't noticing...

...that wasn't planned out very well. Which is sorta my point about the Bushies and the sundry 9/11 MIHOP theories.

The MIHOPers keep thinking the Bushies are Magneto. They're not. They're Gene Hackman's Lex Luthor from Superman II.

[BuyingThyme]

64. I think they planned and executed the holocaust in Iraq very well.

Until I'm allowed to know the truth, and then probably still, I'll assume the same about 9/11.

[dailykoff]

56. 72 virgins is reasonable?

Believing in racist claptrap is not especially reasonable, even if you have a federally protected right to.

[Bucky]

60. You're one of those people who need the sarcasm smily, aren't you?

You know, the one that helps us understand the difference between reality and exaggerated parodies of reality?

[dailykoff]

62. Fine. So what was the motive?

Funny how there never seems to be one.

[Bucky]

66. WFE, my friend

Wiki exists.

Osama bin Laden: Killing of civilians

Probably the most controversial part of Bin Laden's ideology is that civilians, including women and children, may be deliberately killed in jihad. This position evolved from an earlier, less violent one. In a 1998 interview he alleged that in fighting jihad "we differentiate between men and women, and between children and old people," unlike hypocritical "infidels" who "preach one thing and do another."<58> But two years later he told another interviewer that those who say "killing a child is not valid" in Islam "speak without any knowledge of Islamic law", because killing children and other civilians may be done in vengeance.<59> To another question by a Muslim interviewer about the Muslims killed in the 9/11 attack, bin Laden replied that "Islamic law says that Muslim should not stay long in the land of infidels," although he suggested Muslim casualties in the attack were collateral not deliberate.

=====

Of course he's not the only bastard in the world who casually dismisses collateral citizens.

[dailykoff]

79. Jihad against asbestos-contaminated white elephants?

Well at least you're trying.

[WHAT]

78. Cheney's M.O. (as an ex electrical worker or

electrician)...I can definitely see him thinking of something like this.

the other half of my glass (the one that's half full) thinks it might be where the blackmail material was stored so that it might actually have been a good thing.

anyway

[KansDem]

17. Other...

Smoke-filled rooms, where all our destinies are decided, might be subject to fire if the ashtrays aren't emptied and cleaned regularly...

[razors edge]

54. Smoking is illegal in government buildings,

I bet Chaney's defibrillator sparked off *'s secret stock pile of Jack Daniels.

[KansDem]

67. "Smoking is illegal in government buildings"

:rofl:

As if an "illegality" will stave off this bunch!

Remember Schwarzenegger's "tent?"

Rumors Swirl on Schwarzenegger's Cigars
Listen Now: <3 min 30 sec>

Real Media|Windows MediaExplain these links
All Things Considered, March 3, 2004 · California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger enjoys schmoozing with politicians and smoking good cigars. His cigar habit has gotten him into some trouble at the capital, however, and the governor has had to design his own special cigar smoking enclosure. John Myers from member station KQED reports.

NPR

Hey, Arnold! Good idea! I like to smoke a pipe so I'll just bring in a tent and put it up next to my office cube!

Where there's a will, there's a way. And if you're wealthy and connected, there's only one way...

[razors edge]

72. Or Tom Delay smoking

his Cubans in a Smithsonian owned building and telling the complaining manager he was the federal government.

I kinda like the tent idea, might have to buy me one next spring.

[Booster]

35. If it wold have been in other part of the W.H., I wouldn't think a

thing about it. But.......

[Fire Walk With Me]

44. If they DID destroy tapes of torture, they might have burned further evidence.

I'm not into "if/then" as an argumentative device or as a predictor, but with these clowns...

They did an end-run on the electoral process in 2000. They've pulled hundreds of crimes since then. How hard is it to believe that they'll continue?

[windoe]

45. The timing is uncanny,

a very low probability that this was accidental, and that there will be an actual investigation.
Cheney inspires no confidence.

[Bucky]

51. Bullshit

At what point in the last five years did this administration NOT have something to hide?

[tekisui]

46. Trigger.

It was a smoke signal sent up. Knowing it would dominate the world media, burning the VP's office could be used as a trigger-signal. Dickie just said go, with tinfoil temporarily covering my head.




CI(A)l-queda released a strange video last summer warning of a *big surprise*. It feature mushy and bushy standing in front of a burning white house. It also had a black SUV. Like the ones used in dickie's 10 SUV caravan.

All I know is I don't trust a thing coming from that office,not even smoke.

[lonestarnot]

68. hot damn great minds think alike!

Gimme a hat!

[tekisui]

69. Here ya go.

:tinfoilhat:

Chimpy and dickie were sitting in the west wing of the wh when the east wing of the eisenhower building started burning. They were facing the fire, waiting for it.

[lonestarnot]

70. Fucking A scarey. Two evil shits!

[walldude]

52. MSNBC reporting fire in Cheney's office.. docs destroyed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2496650

Keep telling me how this "just happens" sometimes..

[tekisui]

57. Dang, them's the breaks.

Was it his visitor log due on Friday? or torture tape transcriptions or Abrmaoff correspondences or goddamn they have a lot to burn.

I don't believe in coincidences when the darth is involved.

[Occam Bandage]

74. I haven't yet seen any confirmation for that statement whatsoever.

[Bongo Prophet]

55. It was in (or near) his CEREMONIAL OFFICE, therefore it could have been

One of his minions appearing with the demonic flourish that they do sometimes.
Apprentice demons, just learning the ropes...
You know, smoke, sulphur.

I keed. I keed. :evilgrin:

[me b zola]

61. There are no accidents where this cabal is concerned

[catmandu57]

65. It's just so goddamned convenient

And I've learned to distrust these people over the past seven years that even if it was an accident, i have a hell of a hard time believing it. Once you've been on the receiving end of the lie it's so damn hard to believe afterwards.

[RL3AO]

71. Seriously? You think the Pugs are so desperate to destroy evidence...

they will catch the building the VP is in on fire? If they want to destroy evidence, they shred it.

[JDPriestly]

76. Too soon to even guess.

It may not have destroyed a shred of paper. You can get a lot of smoke from an electrical fire.

[BuyingThyme]

80. ..