Illegal Immigration

[ThomWV]

Please respond by giving your's state's abbreviation to indicate what part of the country you live in.

[ThomWV]

1. WV, a few

[Buzz Clik]

2. Illegals are overrunning my community. I live in a state of irrational fear.

[bunkerbuster1]

21. So much so that I hand the RW a victory by referring to fellow humans as "illegals"

a-yup.

[pampango]

34. Hypperbole and sarcasm, I hope.

The state of "Irrational Fear" seems to be the most populous state in the country (with a fair number of DU'ers living in it) these days. (Of course, "irrational fear" is always that someone else suffers from, never ones own self, since "irrational" or "rational" is in the eye of the beholder. ;)

[Buzz Clik]

35. Gee, thanks for that.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

37. lol. brown people are gonna get ya!

[yardwork]

152. Terra terra terra!

Wait. Wrong immigrants. Look over there! Shiny!

[TransitJohn]

3. WY, a few

n/t

[Marrah_G]

4. MA- I have no idea

I don't know how many illegal immigrants are here. More then there used to be, for sure.

[MNDemNY]

5. NYC...this city would be in a world of hurt without them.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

38. yup.

[ismnotwasm]

140. So would we up in the northwest

I love living in my neighborhood full of immigrants-documented and undocumented- and from just about everywhere. Some beautiful souled folks around here.

[zabet]

6. NC

we have plenty in our
area of NC.

[dmallind]

7. New to WNY so guessing, but averaging with NE = "few" NT

ljlkj

[brazos121200]

8. TX. Many of the manual laborers here do not speak English

and are probably illegal. The construction companies just love to hire these illegals so they can pay them $3 an hour and offer no benefits. And nothing is done about it by the state.

[redqueen]

25. Of course nothing is done. The contractors report that they pay minimum wage,

pockets some of the difference, gives the rest as kickbacks to those state officials that help them get the contracts.

[dkofos]

9. TX

[ThomWV]

11. What part?

[texanshatingbush]

10. TX n/t

I volunteer in a charity thrift shop. We give away clothes & housewares to folks who need them. 99% of the clients who receive these items are Hispanic, and probably 1/3 to 1/2 do not speak English.

[redqueen]

17. Do you assume they're all here illegally?

1/2? 1/4?

[texanshatingbush]

196. I assume.....

....that the whole-family non-English speakers are here illegally. If kids speak English and parents don't, they might be here legally OR illegally. But if the kids don't speak English, then I assume they have had no schooling in the US and thus the entire family is here illegally.

[Zywiec]

12. Someone better DU this poll.

It appears that the majority of people think illegals are overrunning their state.

How can that be? :shrug:

[UTUSN]

13. Yip. "Irrational fear" says it all. Who would think that FDR's party (All we have to fear...) would

succumb to hysteria.

[bunkerbuster1]

29. Because the racist trolls/disrupters here make sure to weigh in when "illegals" are discussed.

I really don't give a crap about the results of a poll like this. I didn't vote, actually, since I think the framing sucks ass.

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. I agree; this is a sick poll

[Brother_1969]

14. Immigrants are NOT illegal

From the Statue of Liberty:

Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

If we are a free country, we should freely admit people to it. Drop the border fence nonsense and let people come and go as they wish. Those who come here to contribute to our cultural diversity should be treated with the dignity that all humans deserve. They should be given food, clothing, shelter, medical care, transportation, and education as needed.

[ThomWV]

15. Some are, some aren't.

[Hippo_Tron]

19. Undocumented immigrants would be the correct term

[bunkerbuster1]

24. Yes. Not only is the term "Illegal" as a noun flat-out racist,

it hands the Republicans a club to use against us.

To hell with that noise.

[Hippo_Tron]

26. It's akin to Death Tax, Abortion on Demand, and Democrat Party

Although an easy mistake even for the well intended since illegal immigration is a correct term.

[TahitiNut]

164. Complete nonsense.

First, the term used in U. S. Code is "illegal alien." When you change that you can scold others. Until then, such scolds are hallucination-based nonsense.

Second, in many/most cases, both "legal" and "illegal," it has NOTHING to do with "immigration" in the sense that there is no demonstrated intention to settle with family and become citizens and/or members of the community. Indeed, the provisions of law that apply to "guest workers" and other labor-related situations repeatedly relate to "non-immigrant" individuals.

But more to the point, the immigration laws and their enforcement (and deliberate lack of enforcement) in this country reflect the interests in trafficking in human labor to the point that they bear almost no resemblance to the conventional and ethical human values ordinarily voiced here and elsewhere. The objectification of human beings is appalling.

Unless and until we actually demonstrate a commitment to living by the Rule of Law, and insisting that those laws reflect our values, there isn't ANYONE that occupies some high moral ground - and we're merely behaving like the cowards and outlaws we've become.

[JuniperLea]

171. Bull... oni

A rose by any other name. If people are living here and they are "undocumented" they are here illegally. Period. No hair splitting necessary.

How many Latinos live in your neighborhood? Aye chingow!!!

[redqueen]

178. deleted

[YOY]

30. Visa status. Everyone gets one if not a citizen.

Visiting, working, studying, spousal, immigrating etc...I've had several different types myself while living abroad.

If you don't have one, you've got an "illegal" status. Hardly a concept enforced only in the USA.

[TahitiNut]

31. Sometimes a bleeding heart deprives the brain of oxygen.

:shrug:

[Occam Bandage]

41. Immoral? No. Illegal? Yes.

[sinkingfeeling]

16. AR - We have a rising number of workers here and I welcome them all.

[porphyrian]

18. It depends on where you are in Florida.

South Florida tends to have illegals from the Caribbean islands, Central Florida tends to have illegal migrant workers and North Florida has rednecks who fly confederate flags and don't recognize The Union.

Oh, and a lot of developers/contractors use illegal unskilled labor throughout the state. Just wait and see how many buildings fall apart in the next ten years.

[superduperfarleft]

20. How are we supposed to know they're illegal?

Should we check the status of each brown person we see, or do we just assume they're illegal if they speak teh mexican?

[iamthebandfanman]

23. exactly what i was thinking

and people know they are illegal how ?

making an awful lot of assumptions im thinking... even if it is likely to be true....

[redqueen]

27. If they speak spanish, they're illegal - that seems to be the only criterion. (nt)

[Common Sense Party]

47. I have done retirement plan enrollment meetings all over the

upper Midwest, the mountain states, even in Texas, the Carolinas, Virginia, and elsewhere.

Every time I speak to a group of Hispanics, I explain what the 401 plan is, how it works, etc.

9 times out of 10, the group listens politely, most are not interested, but a few are. The interested ones look at each other a bit nervously, then one of them will speak up for the group:

"¿Y qué pasa si no tenemos números buenos?"

What if we don't have valid Social Security numbers.

They're very honest and forthcoming about it. The vast majority are using someone else's ID to work. In all my years of experience, the legal ones get easier to spot. They know some English, they've been working at the same company for several years, and they're usually the ones that all the other Hispanic workers look to for guidance and advice, and they're often the ones that the employers rely on to get the message out.

[redqueen]

64. And this proves what?

:wtf:

[Common Sense Party]

69. Who the hell said it proves anything? nt

[redqueen]

71. What's it supposed to mean, then?

How's that? Better?

:wtf: again

[Common Sense Party]

72. It means what I wrote. In my experience, most Spanish speaking

workers I came across were undocumented. By far.

[redqueen]

80. So if they speak Spanish, they're illegal. Gotcha.

Thanks for backing up my hypothesis.

[Common Sense Party]

89. Good grief, did you even read what I wrote? They TELL me they are

not here legally! Are you dense? I speak with Hispanics all the time. Some are here legally, but most are not.

Man, it must suck to live in a world where you cannot accept facts contrary to your own preconceived notions.

[redqueen]

99. *sigh* You said:

"In my experience, most Spanish speaking workers I came across were undocumented. By far."

That statement came about after I asked you to clarify your response to my post, which sarcastically theorized that if they speak Spanish, they must be illegal. You said that in your experience, that is the case.

If you're wanting to clarify your answer now to say that the only way you personally decide if someone is an illegal immigrant is if they tell you, that's perfectly logical.

I don't know why you're being so nasty. I'm far from dense. But thanks for the insulting question. We don't get nearly enough of that around here these days.

[LanternWaste]

169. nothing lost in the translation, intent or context...

Lighten up, Francis. She Redqueen simply restated (validly) what you wrote... nothing lost in the translation, intent or context.

[Common Sense Party]

190. Bullpucky. She (and you) intentionally misunderstand. nt

[redqueen]

192. Nonsense. (nt)

[RedCappedBandit]

85. yeah, and?

In my experience, most Spanish speaking people aren't undocumented. Also, Hispanics aren't the only 'illegal' immigrants in this country.. they're just the ones most people choose to blame for all their problems.

[Common Sense Party]

96. I never mentioned other "undocumented" groups, because I don't

meet with them on a regular basis.

But in my experience with Hispanic groups, most are undocumented. They admit it, and at times the employer even admits it.

81% of all undocumented workers in the U.S. are from Mexico or Latin America, according to that Pew study linked upthread.

And I have not, of course, blamed illegals for any of my problems. Just for the record.

[RedCappedBandit]

100. The latter part of my post..

wasn't really directed towards you, just in general.

I wasn't going to say anything, but I'm sure you realize that your personal experience is quite irrelevant in the broader sense. In your posts, you make it seem like the majority of Hispanics are here illegally, which is rather offensive, tbh.

[Beausoir]

32. Exactly! What a joke.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Occam Bandage]

40. I'd start by looking here:

http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/44.pdf

[SemiCharmedQuark]

43. Someone had to say it...

What a steaming pile.

"Overrun" like they're cockroaches or something.

[RB TexLa]

50. When you are talking with people they often will tell you. Also if the person still has Mexican tag

on their car is a pretty good indication, though not an absolute one.

[superduperfarleft]

56. That's my point.

If you actually take the time to talk to someone, and they tell you, then great.

That's not what this thread is based on. It is based on the practice of using stereotypes and bigotry to assume that every hispanic person you meet is "illegal." That's what I found so offensive about this entire thread, from the OP to the nonchalant way people responded to it.

[redqueen]

62. "the nonchalant way people responded to it"

Says a lot, doesn't it.

[JuniperLea]

160. It's easy to be nonchalant for some of us...

Depends on where you live and who your neighbors are.

Simplemente en mi barrio... those who run and hide when La Migra roll down the road are illegal immigrants; those who stay and flip La Migra off, are not.

I can stand on my bedroom balcony and see two illegally, non-permitted garage conversion apartments... small garages, with a whole lot of people living in them. This is not good. This is deadly. Two little girls died last week in our town because of this. There were six in their garage conversion which was not up to code, and obviously very dangerous.

We need to help these people. I bet they would rather live in their own country, and I wish we could take the money we use to harass them and send them home, and help them make their home a better place.

I can't imagine what they left behind if a dingy garage in a horrid part of town is the better option.

[redqueen]

163. The OP is disgusting.

I don't know why anyone would respond to it as if it weren't.

[JuniperLea]

168. Perspective is everything...

How many Latinos live on your block? En mi barrio, there are more Latino and Black people than white. I am the minority.

Getting all bent because of this does no one any good, from my perspective. So I ask again, how many Latinos live on your block? What is your perspective?

[redqueen]

175. I'm poor and live in TX... what do you think?

Getting all racist and spewing rightwing hatespeech does no one any good, either. (re: OP, not you)

I'm half Hispanic.

[JuniperLea]

181. I honestly didn't see anything racist in the OP...

The word "overrunning" could be construed, I suppose. And still, the OP was asking a question about how other people felt. It could very well be that the OP is his/herself Latino for all we know.

Personally, I think this sort of Democrat infighting is exactly what the RW is after.

[redqueen]

182. "Overrunning" = fearmongering.

"Illegals" = dehumanizing.

I'm for goddamn motherfucking 100% POSITIVE the OP is not. I'll eat my fucking big ass green gardening hat if that's the case.


Personally, I think the fact that this bullshit has gone this far says a lot about the "Democrat" party these days.

[JuniperLea]

184. I understand that, and I agree..

I just think sometimes people post crap like this to see what idiots will post in response... flame bait, now that I think of it.

This thread should be locked on that note.

[redqueen]

185. Completely agree.

I've already alerted on it... I'm sure others have too.

[JuniperLea]

188. Please check my post here before we all put this thread on hide...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2496367&mesg_id=2499946

[redqueen]

60. Nevermind.

:blush:

Saw "tag", read "flag". Sorry!

[RB TexLa]

61. no problem

[redqueen]

65. D'oh.

:blush:

:dunce:

[slackmaster]

77. The frequency with which people who are arrested for crimes are identified as illegal immigrants

That, and entire communities set up in the canyons and back-country areas.

It's very well documented.

[redqueen]

So... if they're criminals, they're illegal immigrants?

Or... if they live in certain areas?

So... are people responding to this poll asking about these people's criminal records?

Or perhaps they follow them home? And make their judgment based on that?

:shrug:

[slackmaster]

90. Read my post again slowly

A significant portion of the crimes committed in the San Diego area involve illegal immigrants.

[redqueen]

108. That is what is known as a non sequitur.

So... would you care to answer the question or are you just here to post more of the same?


In case you forgot, here's the question:

"How are we supposed to know they're illegal? Should we check the status of each brown person we see, or do we just assume they're illegal if they speak teh mexican?"

[slackmaster]

117. Your question is a red herring

Your transparent attempt to tar me as racist is not going to work.

[redqueen]

119. Um... wasn't my question...

I am very interested in the methodology being used by respondents.

Sorry if you take that as a slight.

[superduperfarleft]

157. It was my question, not his/her's.

Posting statistics or research studies about illegal immigration is one thing; I'd even go so far as to say that your experience (even though personal experience is pretty much irrelevant when studying society) is reasonable. But the people saying that their towns are full of "illegals" simply because of personal anecdotes about encountering brown people who speak spanish are making assumptions about someone's legal status, and all the baggage that comes with the phrase "illegal immigrant," simply because they happen to have a certain skin color or speak a certain language. Just read the posts below about having neighbors that are Hispanic. Their bad behavior isn't attributed to them for being jerks or shitty neighbors, it's attributed to them being Hispanic and/or "illegals." It's no better than assuming that all gay people are theater majors, or all black people are drug dealers.

The posters saying this may not be full-fledged Klan members, but they are certainly oblivious to their own bigotry. It's too bad, too, since the left used to be all about self-examination and trying to purge the unconscious racism that we're all born with. Now it seems to be about "I MADE A RACIST STATEMENT BUT DON'T YOU DARE CALL ME A RACIST!!!111," or related BS.

I'd hope that in 100 years, USAmericans as a whole are going to be pretty embarrassed about this kind of attitude, much like we're now embarrassed by the acceptance of slavery of denying rights to women.

[slackmaster]

162. My city has a very high Hispanic population

It's simply not possible to tell by looking at someone whether he or she is a legal resident, and that includes the day laborers who hang out at the edge of the Home Depot parking lot.

But try walking through that parking lot while wearing a "US Border Patrol" baseball cap some time.

[LanternWaste]

172. Sounds like you've found yourself a very... rewarding hobby.

"But try walking through that parking lot while wearing a "US Border Patrol" baseball cap some time."

Sounds like you've found yourself a very... rewarding hobby.

[slackmaster]

174. I have never personally done that, and never would

But other people have.

Nice bad knee-jerk assumption to reflect negatively on a fellow Democrat, LanternWaste.

[LanternWaste]

170. Odd that.

Odd that. A significant portion of crime in my area is from meth-smoking Rednecks.


Which seems about as valid to this thread as your response...

[slackmaster]

179. My response was totally valid - I LIVE IN SAN DIEGO!

...Even before the new federal identification system was put in place at local jails, county Sheriff Department's data were showing a steady increase in the number of illegal immigrants incarcerated in county jails. And the numbers continue to increase, Sheriff's Department documents show.

Between Dec. 1, 2005, and Nov. 30, 2006, the county released to federal officials 5,041 prisoners on whom federal immigration officials had placed holds. That number represented 5.15 percent of the total number of men and women who were booked into county jails.

By comparison, during the same months in 2002 to 2003, the county released to federal immigration officials slightly fewer than 3,000 prisoners, or 3.25 percent of the total number of those booked in the same period....

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/01/14/news/top_stories/23_07_141_13_07.txt

...Sweep nets 41 criminal illegal immigrants

By: JO MORELAND - Staff Writer

NORTH COUNTY ---- Forty-one gang members, or people who associate with gang members, are off the streets in North County and being deported, officials said Thursday.

The 40 men and boys, plus one woman, were taken into custody over the last two weeks in Oceanside, Escondido and San Marcos as part of the national Operation Community Shield anti-gang effort conducted by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, also known as ICE.

The crimes of most of those taken into custody ranged from driving under the influence to drug, burglary and assault charges, said Serge Duarte, acting special agent in charge of the agency's San Diego-area office.

"This isn't an immigration issue," Duarte said. "It's a public safety issue."...

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2006/03/11/news/top_stories/22_01_013_10_06.txt

[JuniperLea]

173. If they are undocumented, living in the USA...

They have illegally emigrated... and you should call them what they are... illegal immigrants.

Softening the name doesn't help anyone.

Come live among them and you will find out what they really need.

[redqueen]

176. You didn't follow the thread to that point.

The question was asked: how can you tell they're illegal?

The respondent said: most crimes blah blah blah.

Does my response to that person make sense now?

[JuniperLea]

183. Ugh... I see...

Simple math will tell you that if there's a large number of blue people in your neighborhood, say 50% have blue skin, and 25% have green skin, and 25% have lavender skin, there's no big surprise that when crimes are committed, 50% of the criminals will have blue skin, 25% will have green... etc.

When I see thefts and robberies at this time of year, and even elevated gang crimes, I tend to feel more compassion for those who committed the crimes than I do for the victims. At least the victims had something worth stealing... and as for the gang crimes, these poor kids have no lives. I'm sure they are acting out because they can't join in the "fun" of the holiday commercialism.

Pinche BushCo... I blame them all for this. Things are so much worse in every regard than they were 7 years ago. And those who have the least will suffer the most.

[superduperfarleft]

161. That doesn't answer my question.

Those facts may be true, but how does that help you to individually identify an illegal immigrant without asking for their citizenship papers?

[slackmaster]

193. Serious answer - Here's how you are supposed to do it

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf

[JuniperLea]

158. Simplemente en mi barrio...

Those who scatter when La Migra roll down the street are illegal immigrants. Those who stand and flip them off, are not.

[Selatius]

189. When you hire anyone, you're supposed to fill out an I-9 form to verify every worker.

ICE would then run the information you give them on the I-9 form through the Social Security database and others to verify they gave you a valid number and other information. Every employer is supposed to do this, but the government isn't enforcing this requirement.

[RebelOne]

22. Plenty of them in the Atlanta metro area.

I live northwest of Atlanta in Cherokee County and we are overrun with illegals.

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. And you know this because . . . ?

[Snarkturian Clone]

28. PA - a few here and there NT

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. Here in WA, we still don't require people to wear patches designating their status.

[Lilith Velkor]

39. This poll is bullshit. n/t

[Occam Bandage]

42. WTF would "overrunning" mean? Fearmongering bull.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[superduperfarleft]

48. And Teh Blacks too.

With their rap music and 40 bottles everywhere.

edit: sarcasm aside, I've had numerous white neigbors like that, except replace "Spanish music" with Bon Jovi's "Living on a Prayer." I didn't use that one experience as a basis for deciding that I didn't want to live next to white people. So why did you decide you dislike Hispanic people because of that one experience?

[uppityperson]

49. I guess legal ones don't do that, are great considerate neighbors?

Now I know how to tell if they're illegal, thanks.

[Truth2Tell]

57. I duu like r mexercuns becoise

yhey smell funy an take erway me jobss.

[Common Sense Party]

66. We have several "undocumented" families on our street.

All are from Mexico. There are always going to be cultural differences. The families (yes, plural) that moved in right across the street are pretty nice, but one of the younger guys liked to crank up his car stereo VERY loud when he's outside, blasting cumbia throughout the neighborhood.

This past summer, he cranked it up about 8:00 pm one evening, and I bit my tongue for a while. But when I put my kids to bed at 9:00, the music was still pounding through my kids' open bedroom windows. I just strolled over and politely asked him, "¿Puedes bajar el volumen? Ya es hora que mis niños duermen. Gracias." He looked a bit perturbed, but he lowered the volume, and I didn't have to call the police.

Probably the toughest thing that most gringos have to "deal with" is looking at all the cars. At least where I live, there are multiple Mexican families living under one roof, to save on living expenses. Consequently, there are often four or five or six vehicles crammed in each house's driveway and in on the street. It's not illegal, of course, but the neighborhood looks much more cluttered when the street begins to look like a parking lot.

[redqueen]

67. Guess what... "they" are not all the same.

Sorry you don't like your neighbors, but it's ignorant to extrapolate that to mean that "they" are all "rude, arrogant, have no consideration for anyone else's property" or any other ugly generalizations you'd like to bother to mention.

[RedCappedBandit]

78. Blah blah blah

Bush is white. He is rude, arrogant, has no consideration for anyone else, and I can't stand his voice day or night. He and his regime are ruining my country all year round and I can't get a wink of sleep.
Therefore, I hate all white people.


Logic!

[Occam Bandage]

83. I do not like them, Occam-I-am.

I do not like those Mex-eye-cans.
I do not like them in the light.
I do not like them in the night.
I do not like their Spanish talk.
I do not like their Spanish, Oc!

I do not like their music, too!
I think they are very rude,
And lewd, and crude, and you know who
plays music all night? The Mexicans do!

They look the same! Those Mexi-faces!

I hate them all!

...but I'm not a racist.

[rene moon]

97. Yeah, those Mexicans

Man, we are loud--we just love being brown and proud. We eat beans, carne asada and damn, if you are not Mexican, then we HATE you.

And we love our cars and blaring music so loud---just to annoy the white people--it's sooooo funny to see them squirm! (Evil laugh)



***This is such a piece of trash---I cant believe someone actually wrote this on DU!

Did I stumble into a bizzaro world of some kind? Orale!

[SemiCharmedQuark]

135. I live in Chicago! We have a huge hispanic community.

This post is unbelievable. You have decided you don't like an entire group of people---MILLIONS, based on your experience with your neighbor. I've known jackasses across all races and creeds.
:puke:

[slackmaster]

84. They are literally trashing the back country in San Diego County

Places where I go hiking (or used to go hiking) are strewn with their godawful trash and waste. Overrunning is a perfectly appropriate term.

I've personally seen groups of up to 50 of them.

[RedCappedBandit]

92. I've seen people of all races do the same

Where i'm from, I see vastly more spoiled white children/teenagers ruining the area than I see "illegals"

[slackmaster]

98. When the discarded containers are ALL from Mexican brands and printed in Spanish

It's pretty obvious where the products they contained were purchased.

:dunce:

I'm giving you a first-person report here. I've seen it myself. I know what I'm talking about. I've lived in San Diego since 1962 and have always been an avid outdoors person.

[RedCappedBandit]

104. And I'm giving you a first-hand report as well.

Nice emoticon. Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

[slackmaster]

111. You're trying to make it a race issue by saying you've seen people of all colors litter

I've seen that too, but you have NOT seen what the trails around southern San Diego County look like.

I have. They're being completely trashed, and most of the trashing is being done BY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

[RedCappedBandit]

Gasp!

Yes, you already said that, and I seem to remember already offering my reply.

[maveric]

165. Get mad at the freeps that LURE THEM HERE AND HIRE THEM!!

Give me a Fucking break!

[slackmaster]

167. Hey, I hold them responsible as much as I do the US and Mexican governments

But they're not the ones leaving trash in the back country.

[judaspriestess]

131. San Diego, in german it means a whales vagina.....................

:P

on a serious note, this poll sucks big huge donkey ****

[slackmaster]

143. The truth can be painful sometimes

My opinions are based largely on things I have seen with my own eyes.

[JuniperLea]

187. LOL! Good one!

Good two actually:)

[yardwork]

153. That post is disgusting. Seriously.

You speak of human beings in those terms? Just awful.

[slackmaster]

154. What's wrong with describing the trash and waste they are leaving the back country?

I'm giving an honest, candid description of things I have seen many, many times.

I haven't used any "terms" to describe the people themselves, only their behavior. I can't abide littering the wilderness.

[madfloridian]

44. Immigration is 4th and 5th down the list of priorities on polls.

http://www.pollingreport.com:80/prioriti.htm

Iraq, health care, and the economy are top issues. They are avoiding taking care of those to push one with lower priority.

[pampango]

82. Great point about current priorities with voters.

Since the Repubs have little or nothing to offer on the top three issues, it will not be surprising if they use next year's campaign to whip up some hysteria on "illegal immigration" and hope they can get voters to vote their "fears" rather than real issues.

[RB TexLa]

46. TX

Where most are perfectly happy to live together. I love how it's supposed to be the middle and working class who are hurt by undocumented immigrants, yet every construction site in DFW the white and black workers are the ones who give the hand signals if immigration officials come near. I guess some would say they must be wanting to destroy their own way of life instead of being humane members of a community.

[Labors of Hercules]

51. Many undocumented people residing in central NC.

Way to many to count, but man can they cook! (and dance)...

[greguganus]

59. NC here too. We have a seasonal worker camp across the road from us...

...and never have any trouble. Not seasonal anymore, as most have jobs working year round with plant nurserys or construction companies.
Whether they are illegal or not, I don't know. I give them rides when they are walking down the highway to the store.
Our house was broken into a few years ago and the deputy sheriff that responded said "It's those Mexicans". I told him he was wrong, and a few weeks later, a burglary ring was busted in my area, and all those involved were local kids from another county 30 miles away.

[Common Sense Party]

68. In the small town where I live, the Mexican immigrants aren't

committing many crimes. A few, yes, but much less than the white population. The burglaries around here are by white drug users.

Down in Salt Lake there are several Hispanic gangs--along with Tongan, Asian and who knows what other groups.

[Labors of Hercules]

73. "It's those redneck brats" more like it...

Amazing how many decent, hard-working immigrants are still being treated like shit by nasty flag- wavin redneck Amuricuns who blame "them Mexicans" all the time for the crap they and their kids do.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. I have no idea

I honestly don't go around asking Hispanic people to show me their citizenship papers.

Thom, this is a bad poll.

[KamaAina]

55. Hawai'i: many immigrants, but most are documented

The Pacific Ocean provides us with perhaps the ultimate "border fence", you see. Immigrants continue to arrive in numbers, with South Korea being the hot spot at present -- but through the airport, with visas.

It is estimated that a language other than English is spoken in one-quarter of the households on O'ahu. Our bus guide, for example, is printed in about a half-dozen languages, two of which are Filipino! (Tagalog and Ilocano)

[robcon]

58. NY, near Port Chester and the CT border

There are many, many illegal immigrants in the area.

[JuniperLea]

63. CA

These poor people need help, and the more that flood into So Cal, the less we will have to give them. It's a sad, vicious circle. Just a couple of days ago, two young girls were killed by fire. They were living in a sub-standard garage conversion, constructed w/o building permits. They were using a space heater... two little girls... 11 and 7. Heartbreaking. Then, a day later, while attending a vigil to raise money for their funerals, one of their aunts was caught in gang crossfire. Hell in a hand-basket, I tell you.

We should take all the money earmarked for sending these people back to Mexico, and use it to make a difference in their country. I'm betting they love their own country, and would be happy to stay and help make a difference there if they were given the opportunity, and the support to do so.

[Kajsa]

142. Hi Juniperx,

I didn't hear about the aunt- that's awful!

That family has been through so much hell!

those three little girls--

:cry:

We need to help those in need not scorn them.

[JuniperLea]

155. Exactly! Scorn isn't very progressive, is it?

But here we sit, unable to get out stupid government to help us, let alone help these poor people who are only looking for a better life. Can you imagine? Living in a garage is better than what was left behind?

If we can't fix our world, we are subhuman. And that, obviously, starts at the top!

BTW - The aunt lived, but was shot in the leg. I don't know how much one family can take!

[williesgirl]

70. Last option - I live in N. VA.

[yawnmaster]

74. CA n/t

[slackmaster]

75. Overrunning (southern) California for sure

:argh:

[RedCappedBandit]

76. How can you tell?

Do people go up to each individual and ask them if they're "illegal"?

[slackmaster]

81. The question in the OP is not whether you can identify an individual as an illegal immigrant

:hi:

[RedCappedBandit]

86. Thank you for stating the obvious. n/t

[redqueen]

87. Doesn't answering the question require that a person know whether someone is an illegal immigrant?

:wtf: x a brazilian

[slackmaster]

93. No

It does not require ability to identify any particular individual as an illegal immigrant.

Give it up redqueen, I LIVE IN SAN DIEGO!

We have entire communities of illegal immigrants camped in our open space areas.

They've even been coming in by the dozen by boats on our local beaches. It's well documented.

[redqueen]

103. You don't need to know if someone is an illegal immigrant, in order to label them as such.

Sorry, I'll never give logic up. You go right ahead and jump on the repuketard bandwagon, though. Go for it, man. I'm sure if you and a few others make enough noise, you can make it appear to be an "issue" that dems are all in a tizzy about, too!

[slackmaster]

114. I'm not talking about individuals, I'm talking about entire shanty towns

Google it.

[redqueen]

128. If there are entire shanty-towns in San Diego...

I think it's fair to say that there is a serious problem in SD... however, I think polls like this feed the "build the wall" mentality, and that we should know by now that cutting off the supply never works... only addressing demand works.

I only say "if there are shanty-towns" because I couldn't find much even with a google search... but they do seem to exist... whether they're any worse than ever before I don't know... we've always had undocumented migrant labor.

Thanks for sticking with this convo and not getting pissed off with me... I sincerely have never heard of those shanty-towns before.

[slackmaster]

139. Try "mcgonigle canyon" or "migrant encampment san diego"

Try this NBC News video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBHs0sETasY

I have seen places like that many times.

:hi:

And for the record, I am not for building a wall. That wouldn't stop the influx.

The real fix IMO, is to fix Mexico's economy.

Thanks for sticking with this convo and not getting pissed off with me... I sincerely have never heard of those shanty-towns before.

Hey, I'm a real sweetheart once you get to know me.

[redqueen]

141. That would require fixing their government.

Consider how well we've done fixing our own.

*sigh*

[RedCappedBandit]

112. So, lets say your area really is being "overrun"

and it is causing a problem.

Who is to blame, and what should be done?

[slackmaster]

116. Plenty of blame to go around

People who hire illegal immigrants.

The corrupt Mexican government that keeps the super-rich in power and doesn't allow the economy to grow and produce jobs in Mexico.

Our federal government that is not fulfilling its responsibility to secure the border.

The illegal immigrants themselves.

[RedCappedBandit]

118. You should first look at our own government

before blaming theirs.

If you blame the immigrants, I'd kindly request that you put yourself in their position. Would you not do the same for your family if you lived in such conditions?

Those to blame are the wealthy in this country who are exploiting the cheap labor of these desperate people, as well as our very own government for perpetuating the problems throughout Latin America. The immigrants themselves are doing what any normal person would, and in *my* experience they do everything in their power to remain under the radar and to be respectful so as to not draw any attention to themselves.

[slackmaster]

120. Both governments are fully culpable

If you blame the immigrants, I'd kindly request that you put yourself in their position. Would you not do the same for your family if you lived in such conditions?

Yes, I probably would.

[Occam Bandage]

113. No. To answer the question, I just looked for some demographic information

for my state, found the estimated number of undocumented immigrants, and answered accordingly. They exist, and they are a drain on our hospital system (as are all uninsured people), but I wouldn't call it "overrunning," and I don't think we have "too many." I'm in favor of drastically increased visas and a path to citizenship for those already here.

[redqueen]

115. Well at least you used some kind of logical method

to answer the poll.

I fear you're one of a very, very small percentage of respondents. Sadly.

[slackmaster]

121. They're a big drain on the hospital system here too

And that fact is very well documented.

[JuniperLea]

156. It's easy enough in my neighborhood

Those who scatter when La Migra roll down the street are illegal immigrants. Those who stand and flip them off, are not.

[Megahurtz]

191. AS IF you CAN'T tell.....

:eyes:

[ceile]

79. How am I supposed to know if they're illegal?

I don't go around asking for green cards. And I don't understand the reason for this obvious flamebait.

[redqueen]

88. deleted

posted in wrong place

[redqueen]

91. This is insane.

If I used the ignore feature, this thread would provide a good number of members to use it on.

[slackmaster]

94. Please don't ignore the reality of the situation, redqueen

Look at the percentage of responses that chose the "overrun" option.

That's my response, and I am sticking with it. Illegal immigration is a major problem for my area.

[redqueen]

101. Yeah, I'm positive trolls aren't skewing this poll.

I'm so taking it to heart.

Seriesly.

[slackmaster]

105. I'm no troll, and I have personally seen what the influx has done to my area

It's ugly, and it's been getting worse for decades.

[RedCappedBandit]

107. Have you ever thought about the reasons behind

their decisions to come here?

[slackmaster]

122. Yes, and those reasons do not change the fact that my area is being overrun by them

:hi:

[RedCappedBandit]

124. But it should change your outlook

:shrug: Oh well, insensitivity is common in this world.

[slackmaster]

125. Jeez, now your're spinning me as insensitive because I gave an honest answer to the OP

Typical DU asshattery.

[RedCappedBandit]

130. ...

Sorry for the attack. But IMO, the "asshattery" is generalizing an entire population to be disrespectful, dirty slobs simply because of your personal experiences.

[slackmaster]

134. I have done no such thing

I realize that not all illegal immigrants are disrespectful, dirty slobs. But the ones who are, are causing serious problems in my area.

[RedCappedBandit]

136. Okay then..

Just seemed that way from reading your posts.

[LanternWaste]

177. You seem to use the word "them" more than any progressive I know of.

You seem to use the word "them" more than any progressive I know of.

But I'm sure it means nothing...

[slackmaster]

180. Can you suggest an alternate that serves the same function as the word "them"?

You seem to use the word "them" more than any progressive I know of.

But I'm sure it means nothing...

Why don't you just fucking post what you really think, so I can hit Alert and be done with it?

[redqueen]

110. I know several people in SD... none of them are

so alarmed and terrified of this huge series issue as you seem to be.

:shrug:

[slackmaster]

123. Please point out where I said I was either alarmed or terrified

I'm neither. I'm outraged and disgusted that many of our beautiful wild areas, which I love, are being damaged by the uncontrolled human migration.

My area is literally overrun by people who are using those trails to evade capture.

[RedCappedBandit]

126. The beautiful wild areas..

which were home to the indigenous people long before Europeans ever got here, have been suffering damage for quite some time. If anything, we're to blame.

[slackmaster]

129. I recommend auto-flagellation

It might make you feel better about yourself.

[RedCappedBandit]

132. I recommend...

you stop trying to place the blame on an entire group of people simply because it makes you feel better.

[slackmaster]

137. You seem to be having the same misunderstanding as RedCappedBandit

What "entire group of people" do you think I am blaming?

[RedCappedBandit]

138. I am RedCappedBandit

I think we already settled this discussion upthread, though.

[slackmaster]

144. Sorry RCB, I got cross-threaded

Thanks.

[redqueen]

133. Sorry for mischaracterizing your views.

This shit poll has me seeing red.

[JuniperLea]

186. I am alarmed and terrified on a few counts...

Please hear me out...

We have no infrastructure to support this number of people. In Los Angeles, we frequently have sewage overflow into the ocean because the system cannot support this many people. This is not healthy for anyone, especially the immigrants who don't know better and swim or fish in the pollution. Our freeways are falling down around us, literally. There is just too much traffic. We don't have enough water for everyone either. And we don't have enough health-care, so many immigrants don't get immunizations.

I'm not blaming the people for this, I'm blaming the governments of the US and Mexico. The whole damn town is going to implode, and then we won't be fit for man nor beast. Parts of Los Angeles are virtually indistinguishable from the squalor of Tia Juana... this is no exaggeration. No electricity, no water... shallow ditches being dug in backyards to dump the "honeybuckets"... tar paper and cardboard covering broken windows... people dying of asphyxiation because they start a fire in a dilapidated fireplace, or bring a bbq into the house for warmth. Fifty-plus people living in a 600 square foot house without electricity, trash collection or water. It's getting damn serious, and I for one am horribly afraid.

Again, I don't blame the people. I blame the governments involved... or NOT involved. But I am terrified for all of us Angelinos... native and immigrants, legal and not.

Edited for spelling errors... too damn shaken by thinking about this to spell correctly!

[ceile]

95. Agreed. n/t

[RedCappedBandit]

109. Agreed, requeen.. n.t

[goodgd_yall]

102. California

I just wish the politicos would have left well enough alone.

[Asgaya Dihi]

106. TX, common

Personally I don't see the big panic, we're being used and mislead into attacking another weak population just like we were with the wars on terror and drugs. They didn't union bust us, where they could they tried to join or create a union of their own. The corps did that. It isn't them that bought and controls our media, it isn't them outsourcing our jobs, and it isn't them that's responsible for the vast and growing majority of America's income going to a smaller and smaller upper percentage of us while the rest of us tread water or sink.

It is them that was victims of NAFTA just like we were, we crushed local agriculture with promises of manufacturing jobs then they got outsourced too a few years later when China opened up. It's mostly our drug use that finances and justifies the existence of their criminal smuggling operations but it's their crime and violence problem especially as we offer more enforcement money and urge confrontation with the gangs and some are running from that.

They are victims too. Yeah, we do need to control immigration best we can for social and security reasons but in the scheme of things they aren't responsible for our problems nearly so much as we're responsible for theirs, then when they run from those problems we hit them again. Better to solve the situations that created what they run from and target our anger at the people responsible for hurting them and us it, wouldn't you think?

[slackmaster]

127. No panic in SoCal either, but it does create some serious economic and environmental problems

:hi:

[Asgaya Dihi]

146. It can

My problem is with who is getting the blame, not the idea that there are problems. In large part they are refugees of problems they aren't responsible for, refugee situations often aren't pretty. Individually we aren't responsible either but as a nation to a large extent I think we are.

The whole immigration debate was just too convenient, another weak group to hate for what seem to me fairly nebulous reasons, a scapegoat to distract from the real issues of the day and to distract from exactly who is doing what to who. Look at who created the problems they run from, and who created the problems we fight today. Same people in large part. The illegals are refugees, they aren't our enemies. By all rights they should be allies. We've been used. Again.

[slackmaster]

147. I agree very much with your post, Asgaya Dihi

The situation has existed for at least the better part of a century. It's been hyped into a giant media Bogeyman for largely political reasons.

[Sanctified]

145. OR and illegals are very common.

[Blue_In_AK]

148. AK -- I have no clue.

But there may be. Alaska is ethnically a very diverse state (90+ languages are spoken in the Anchorage School District) so there may be an undocumented person or two in the mix. I personally couldn't care less. I like it that I live in a city where people don't all look and talk the same.

A recent article in the Anchorage Daily News stated that either Alaska as a whole or at least Anchorage is now 50-50, i.e., 50 percent minorities or mixed race and 50 percent Caucasian. That doesn't seem to be much of a problem for us.

[hunter]

149. None. How can a person be illegal?

There are lots of folks around here who don't have their documents in order, however. Mostly they work hard and stay out of trouble.

People are people, wherever they come from. The immigration system in the United States is unfair, unjust, capricious and totally broken, therefore it is entirely unethical to call anyone an "illegal alien."

The right wing freaks in homeland security want you to worry about "illegal aliens." They want you to worry about a lot of crap they pull out of their pants.

Don't buy into their game.

Yes, there is a problem with undocumented workers, mostly because they are treated as a disposable union-busting labor force by Big Money.

Strictly enforce labor laws, raise the minimum wage, unionize the work force, haul away corporate management and not the workers in immigration raids, and the problems created by undocumented work force will be greatly reduced.

[Beausoleil]

150. TX

San Antonio to be exact. I don't have a clue even though there must be some undocumented immigrants here. In a city that is 75% Hispanic, who's got the time to ask?

I grew up in Texas (Dallas) and it's always been a given that we've had a lot of undocumented immigrants for as long as I can remember. It's a fact of life here.

There are also quite a few Americans (Anglo and Latino) here that speak Spanish. About half the city seems to be bilingual. So you can't tell by speech.

When I visit Dallas, though, I notice immigrants a lot more than when I lived there. Illegal? Never thought about it.

[Dorian Gray]

151. Common, NYC

[blondeatlast]

159. Choice 3, Phoenix, they bother me not a bit. nt

[LanternWaste]

166. No category for "I'm Dating an Undocumented Worker"?

No category for "I'm Dating an Undocumented Worker"?

I don't know how many undocumented workers live in north central Texas as I've never been moved to do an actual head count.

But there is at least one-- I'm dating her (and no worries to the xenophobic 'progressives'... she's not going to take your job-- she has higher aspirations than that).

I usually don't refer to her as my undocumented girlfriend, though-- much like I don't refer to my pal who spent a weekend in county for DUI as my "drunk diver friend" or refer to my mom (who raised me alone and left me and my bother alone a lot when we were young) as "that passively abusive mother of mine"... but I'm sure a lot of people think I probably should, if for no other reason than to ease their own conscious when it comes to dehumanizing people.

[treestar]

194. I don't know of any undocumented immigrants

I live in Delaware. I used to live in California, where I assumed many of the people I saw could well be. I can honestly say I don't see the big deal about these poor people's presence. Never bothered me. They never appear to be as well off as I, so I can't scapegoat them for any of my problems, or the problems of this country. I think this country's main problem is its unjustified war in Iraq and its casual dismissal of the Bill of Rights in the name of "protecting" themselves.

Making a big deal of these poor people, a la Lou Dobbs, is sick, in my opinion.

[rucky]

195. I've never checked anybody's papers, so I don't know.