The Left and Right agree to hate Hillary!

[blueinindiana]

The Right hates Hillary cause she is too LIBERAL and the Left hates cause she is not LIBERAL enough.


Frankly I am extremely sick of hearing people on here gripping about Hillary.

I do not agree with everything she stands for or her motives but if she wins the nomination I will support her.


If she wins the primary and you still can’t vote for her then it’s Nader ’08 for you!

[The Straight Story]

1. When did criticism become hate?

I don't blindly follow anyone, no matter what letter they carry around.

If we cannot examine our own in a critical light then we might as well be repugs who think bush can do no wrong.

If they want me to follow - they damn well better lead. And they sure as hell ought to know that since I am paying their salary I will ask the tough questions.

[xultar]

6. If people spent as much time criticising the right as they did our own

DU would be a much better place.

[The Straight Story]

11. I don't need to criticize the right here, we ain't voting for the right on DU

we are working on getting the best people for the job on the left though, so I think examining candidates and asking the hard questions is par for the course.

[FiveGoodMen]

12. Hear, Hear!

[xultar]

21. So....Come to DU where we Criticize our own! That should be our new motto.

[Forkboy]

22. There's plenty of criticism of the right wing all over DU

I'd like to think we can handle a little inward looking without feeling threatened.

[The Straight Story]

29. So examining the facts is criticism?

Sounds rw'ish to me.

We need to select the best candidate to represent us, how we going to that without looking at the negatives?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

2. I don't hate her. More like utter contempt.

[orpupilofnature57]

5. That ' Utter Contempt ' gave us Shrub.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. Really? How so?

I have utter contempt for Shrub too.

[orpupilofnature57]

33. Shrub deserves you're contempt ,Hill like all of us is slightly flawed,

Which isn't contemptible. I see the Contempt for what bill and Hill did as a doorway for what we've degenerated to, Amerika.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

42. I see lack of it as that doorway.

[Cha]

16. We're in good company..

Paul Krugman is "criticizing" her, too.

"The base is remarkably forgiving toward Democrats who supported the war. But the base and, I believe, the country want someone in the White House who doesn’t sound like another George Bush. That is, they want someone who doesn’t suffer from an infallibility complex, who can admit mistakes and learn from them."


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x263980

[leftchick]

17. for me as well and

Hillary IS the right, a lot of folks do not recognize that.

[Clark2008]

3. I think most DUers are simply angry that the corporate media

has annointed her a full year before the first vote is cast.

I'm tired of the media picking our candidates. If HRC is the right person for the job, so be it, but I want the voters to decide, not the corporate shills in the M$M.

[MGKrebs]

40. At the DNC meeting, HC had people all over the place

willing to talk to attendees. They had a well stocked and staffed table with literature and SWAG, and HC had the just-before-lunchtime speaking slot. That was not the media anointing her. That was a well funded, well organized, professionally staffed campaign organization. The other campaigns at this point look a little amateur in comparison. If other campaigns want to get in the limelight, they need to do the things necessary to do that. We may not like it, but that is the way winning campaigns are run at this moment. Howard Dean came close to changing things, but we're not there yet. Blaming it on the media is a cop out. I like Wes Clark, but right now he has virtually no campaign, and it's not the media's fault.

I would imagine that part of the reason HC decided to run was because they looked at the numbers and saw that she had good name recognition and was likely to get press attention. If another candidate doesn't have those assets built-in, they need to find a way to create them. Whining about not having them serves no purpose.

Just because a candidate throws their hat in the ring doesn't get them instant credibility or attention. And going to a thousand Rotary Club speaking engagements, while helpful, is not going to make NBC pay attention either. Clark and some of the others may yet find a way to reach critical mass in their campaigns, but it will be because they did the necessary work to get there, not because "the media" decided on a whim to help them along.

[Leopolds Ghost]

43. "Howard Dean came close to changing things, but we're not there yet"

So you'd agree we should OPPOSE a candidate who wants to kill off Dean's
strategy, policy, and tactics?

One who has pleged to one-up Bush's "Pioneer" donor program 10-fold, raising $1 million from each anonymous bundler instead of Bush's previously unthinkable, denounceable $100,000?

Or should we vote for the candidate who is best-funded and has the most SWAG?

The American public is way ahead of you there. Is Forbes president? No.

[MGKrebs]

46. Who I support has nothing to do with it.

Media plays a role. Candidates have to deal with it, and supporters of various candidates should also acknowledge it.

I might vote for DK in the primary, but I am pretty close to positive that he will not win because he can't get media attention worth a crap, among other reasons, like having shown no ability to raise anywhere near enough money to compete.

It's probably going to take more than $50 million to win the primary. I can wish for it not to be so all I want, but any candidate who doesn't recognize it and compete for it has no chance. Sorry. It's almost certainly too late to change it for this cycle. We will have to really build the grassroots organizing and clout for things to be different.

Yeah, I dream of a day when campaigns are totally publicly financed and the grassroots determines who gets taken seriously, not the media, but we just aren't there.

[dogday]

4. The more I think about Hillary pissing off Republikans

the more I like her :evilgrin:

[Old and In the Way]

24. Me too!

I would enjoy the complete meltdown the Far Right would have should
Mrs. Clinton become President. The fact that both extremes don't like her, might make her the candidate to beat in 2008.

[blueinindiana]

31. To the far right wingers she is nothing less than satan.

They think she is liberal to the extreme cause all day long they listen to Right wing radio and read right wing email chain letters.

[Uben]

8. Some people can't be satisfied

I guess since she is out polling everyone, she has a target on her back. It is to be expected.
I am not sure yet who I am going to vote for, but Clinton is certainly a front-runner and I am not voting for a lost cause. I like RIchardson, Edwards, and Clinton right now, but until we start seeing some debate, I am keeping an open mind. I will be voting for the nominee in Nov. next year.

[Leopolds Ghost]

44. "I am not voting for a lost cause" in the primaries

What an illogical sentiment. "I'm not going to throw my vote away in the primaries -- I'll vote for whoever is likely to win."

Tell me, are you one of the people who buys ten lottery tickets instead of one, and refuse to take major roads because of traffic -- only short cuts -- and only watch programs that "everyone else" is watching?

[MGKrebs]

50. In my case, "whoever is likely to win" will probably include

more than one candidate. I think the sentiment is that why vote for someone who is only polling at 3% when you might be able to push one of top candidates that you prefer? If it were Edwards, Clinton, and Obama at the top, you might be able to help one of them, rather than cast a symbolic vote for a Kucinich or Dodd.

[Stuckinthebush]

9. I think most people agree with you

that if she wins they will support her. It's just that many are not eager for her to win the nomination. I feel there are better progressive candidates out there. I don't hate her by any stretch of the imagination, and I know that my fellow DUers would agree with that as well. We aren't happy with her conduct regarding this war, that's all.

If she wins the nomination then you will see all rally behind her and push for her victory.

[av8rdave]

10. I'm not "gripping" about Hillary (whatever that is), but she is not my first choice for the nominee

So Be It

[uppityperson]

13. Dislike is not hate. Neither is criticism. Nor is griping.

drop the "hate" talk please.

[Uben]

14. She's a smart gal

In order to win the election the nominee will have to appeal to the fence-sitters that abandoned Bush. While we may like more progressive candidates, we should be looking at who can pull these votes in. Bill Clinton did it in 92, and I think Hillary is following his example. I think it is a smart move, myself.

[Clark2008]

37. Gal??

:shrug:

[ronnykmarshall]

47. Chick?

:hide:

[WI_DEM]

15. So does that mean she has the middle which decide the elections?

[Uben]

19. , she out-polling the others

....so I would assume she has the lion's share of them.

[Stuckinthebush]

20. The middle only decides elections

If you have one of the other ends with you.

[sandnsea]

18. Can't I oppose her winning the primary??

The first vote isn't until next January. Aren't we supposed to be picking apart policies and character attributes to get the best candidate possible??

[TahitiNut]

23. Well, that's what happens ....

... when staggering down the middle of the road.

[phylny]

25. She is my senator. I will not vote for her in our primary, however if she wins

the Democratic Party's nomination, I will vote for her.

[nevergiveup]

26. I am presently supporting

Obama because I have a problem with Hillary's war vote and I also do not believe she has a prayer of a chance in defeating any Republican. I must confess, however, that I do find the Hillary bashing here a little much. Constructive criticism is always a good thing but destructive criticism of any Democratic candidate hurts us all. As a loyal Democrat I find it disheartening.

[left is right]

27. If she wins the primary she will get my vote

but I will be holding my nose.
As far as hating her, I don't. I had high hopes for her when she became a Senator-but it seems that everytime I hear how she votes, I am disappointed.

[Desert Liberal]

54. Exactly

Can't we say that we are disappointed without hating her? I don't hate her. She's a strong woman and has dealt with LOTS of crap. However, I am disappointed, and I will not vote for her in the primary. That's not to say that I wouldn't support her if she gets the nod, but isn't it okay to say we'd like someone else to get the nod?

:hippie:

[shoopnyc]

28. The End of the Era of the Single Issue Voter...

It seems to me that America is at a crossroads with regards to what was known as the "Single Issue Voter". For the 2008 Election, I foresee a much more sophisticated electorate, due to the fact that all candidates, on both sides, do not not fulfill 100% of their respective bases wishes, (which, I believe, to a certain extent, is healthy).

Most recently, this has been most effectively been applied through the abuse of the "wedge issue". This construct became the norm during the rise of the 24/7 news cycle, somewhat holding them together. But the internet has diffused a lot of this, and people have a greater capacity now to look at all sides of any candidate on any side.

My fear is that people that do not follow politics closely will throw their hands up with a "they're all bad" collapse. But I think the situation in Iraq will encourage, shall we say, a more "nuanced" , and complete media coverage of all campaigns. I hope.

Some feedback?

[blueinindiana]

32. You can not please everyone ...

If I was running fro office I would just state my stance eon the issues and say if you do not like my views than don't vote for me.

I hate pandering! It never works you have to be yourself.

[MonkeyFunk]

30. Yep!

if the far right hates her and the far left hates her, she's probably doing something right, as far as her electoral prospects.

[PBass]

36. Every candidate deserves very close scrutiny...

We would be idiots NOT to wrangle with the pros and cons of every candidate (and I don't mean electability. I mean there is no perfect candidate).

The good news is that there are at least 3 Dems who can win (Edwards, Obama and Clinton) plus possibly Dodd and Richardson (I think they could win, why not). And I can't see any of the Republicans possibly winning. I don't think any Repub can win in 08. The Dem candidates all have their problems but that's nothing... for the GOP the 08 election already looks like another rebuilding year... all their candidates are lousy.

So lets enjoy putting our candidates under the spotlight, and aksing some tough questions... we're going to win this time, so lets pick somebody good in the primary.

And if your candidate doesn't win, hold your nose and vote Democratic anyway. Congress needs a Democratic president so that we can start undoing some of the damage from Bush.

[cooolandrew]

34. I'll back her but I will be dramatically less inspired than I am for other candidates

[B Calm]

35. Hate is too strong of a word! Disappointed would be my choice.

[MadHound]

38. And this is why she is a loser of a candidate

Radically polarizes both ends of the spectrum, who therefore won't vote for her. It would be a repeat of '68, when the left either stayed home in droves, or voted for Gene McCarthy. The Dems were blown away and we got Nixon.

There are other candidates that don't arouse such opposition, and aren't so polarizing. It would be best to go with one of those.

[Skidmore]

39. Not Hillary, not Nader, but I will happily

write in the name of my favorite Dem instead.

[cool user name]

41. Good grief.

Get real.

I hate the party before principle shit.

[gravity]

45. She's a uniter

nt

[BoneDaddy]

48. Great attitude

We must agree with Hillary ...love it or leave it.

[Bronyraurus]

49. Agreed

Of course, she's still a shitty candidate by these lights, but I'll support her if I've got to. Obama's my man for now, and he's picking up some steam at Hillary's expense. See his recent fundraiser with half of Hollywood!

[mdmc]

51. OBEY

No one gonna stop her!

[endarkenment]

52. The right wing of the Democratic Party supports Clinton.

Oh you meant the far right republican nutjobs. Well they hate all of us except Zell Miller and Joe Lieberman, so that is irrelevant.

If unfortunately Clinton is our candidate I will work hard for her election as president. How that equates to 'I hate Clinton' is an exercise for the bullshit artists.

[Greyhound]

53. Don't hate her at all. I vehemently disagree with her stands and actions that

promote the advance of corporatism in my former nation, America. I doubt I'd vote for Nader and definitely won't be voting for whichever POS the Republiks put up, so if she gets the nomination I just might not make a selection for President in '08. Maybe I'll write in Pat Paulson :silly:

ETA: Maybe Ms. Greyhound can convince me she is just playing opossum to get in and then will pursue the kinds of reform she used to talk about.

[WHAT]

55. It's not Hillary...

it's the promotion of "personality" in lieu of the discussion of issues that I resent in the promotion posts.

"I do not agree with everything she stands for or her motives but if she wins the nomination I will support her."...your words.

If no one discusses the issues, how do you know what she stands for? That type of thinking just allows anyone (CM) to put words in her mouth which is especially harmful or beneficial, depending on perspective, when taken out of context. I'm writing out of aggravation, today, but usually I just ignore the candidate threads.

I wish du could try for a week to only allow threads that discuss the candidate's position on issues: for instance, "The left hates Hillary for her position on this (give example in context). The right hates Hillary for her position on this."

Until that happens, I'm not paying attention.

[orpupilofnature57]

56. aL gORE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN DISCUSS THAT FRANKLY, why?

[sniffa]

57. some peopLe are saying..

that she doesn't have the fortitude to protect us from terror.

[orpupilofnature57]

58. Shrub was fortified , Advised and connected , and look at u.s. now.