So, who is sitting on all the video tape of prisoner abuse and/or torture?

[EFerrari]

We know they taped the abuse of rounded up people in New York after 9/11 because after two years, attorneys for some of those victims managed to find about 300 tapes of prisoner abuse and torture.

We know now that CIA taped, too.

We know via Sy Hersh that there is tape from Abu Graib.

It looks like taping these horrors is policy, too. There may be tape of Gitmo, Afghanistan, of black sites in Eastern Europe. :shrug:

Who has it? There's no way this material can be suppressed. Not unless they shut down the net, and that would only slow the dissemination down.

Who has it and what are they waiting for?

[acmavm]

1. I think Rummy has it and shows it to special guest when he invites them

over for 'movie night'.

I was being facetious but I do believe that Rummy is still in cahoots with Dick, and they are in control of the tapes.

[EFerrari]

2. Maybe. As soon as I posted, I thought of something.

J. Coffer Black ran the rendition program and he's now at Blackwater.

It would be pretty easy to lobby for contracts if you're sitting on a bunch of torture tapes. :shrug:

I've been stuck thinking about this human sink scum for days. About Blackwater's ties to CIA and what it means. Yuck! But, there's something right THERE that is important. Or maybe, several somethings.

[Zueda]

3. I honestly believe they may be sexual sadist. nt

[Virginia Dare]

40. Perhaps occultists of some variety...

practicing "Black Masses" and all. They're all tied up in secret societies, that's a well-known fact. Okay, I just stepped off into :tinfoilhat:, but I'm reading all about Templars and Rosicrucians right now, so I can't help it.

[EFerrari]

43. Dick Cheney, the most secretive vampire ever. n/t

[EFerrari]

4. Does anyone know who is heading up the investigation of the CIA torture tapes?

I'm sorry, fact overload here. TIA!

[EFerrari]

9. Found it: Silvestre Reyes. n/t

[glowing]

5. One of the posts the other day had a drawing of a secret prison cell.

The description of the cell had different things for toilets, beds, chains, etc... and the prisoner, released, said all of his cells had a camera.. Personally, I think these sick fucks love to watch it... I don't have any doubt that there is tons of footage of torture sitting around... Perhaps the reason for increased shredding services?

[seemslikeadream]

6. This one?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2474372&mesg_id=2474372

[EFerrari]

8. Thank you!

:hi:

[glowing]

11. Thanks... I knew someone would post it.. and you happen to be on

to provide the link.. I think its safe to say that there is toture tapes.. and tapes isn't exactly the correct analagy.. Its a digital stick that stores lots of data.. perhaps they re-looped it, but knowing them, they changed the sticks out.. We have a looping one on our security cameral here.

Also, think about the modern prison system.. those places use a lot of security surveilence because there are more prisoners than guards.. they use the surveilence to help them monitor all prisoner activity... Heaven forbid there was an uprising of criminals against a smaller crowd. Just watch Doc Block on MSNBC and you know that prison systems rely heavily on using scare tactics, brute force, and surveilance cameras.

[EFerrari]

17. I was wondering if "tape" was right, too. But some of the language

in the reports late last week made me think that it was, indeed, tape. That doesn't preclude digital storage or manipulation, though, does it?

[glowing]

32. Well, they still think the internets are series of tubes... These people

are all a bit old... they probably just say tapes to imply a general smattering of security surveilence and audio...

[EFerrari]

7. One of the reasons I asked is about the election.

Whoever has this stuff has not only life insurance and maybe the ability to get big fat contracts but also controls information that can influence our elections. :shrug:

[southerncrone]

13. Agree.

After all the pervs that have been exposed on that side in the last few months, you know there must be more of them crawling around. "Movie nite" indeed.

I think they are probably in safe keeping some where OUTSIDE the US.

[glowing]

33. Paraguay?

[southerncrone]

36. Parahaps.

Or maybe Switzerland or Saudi Arabia.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

10. I thought the set would be available for Christmas

I thought they'd be compiled into a "Spies Gone Wild" DVD.

[EFerrari]

12. Whoever (probably plural) has this stuff has a big ticket to ride.

What do they want? What are they waiting for?

And, do you think that the Congress critters investigating CIA tape destruction have figured out that this was a policy and that there's a warehouse full of this stuff yet?

[flashl]

23. b/4 and after Abu Graib

Soldiers returning from Iraq were posting vids ranging from rapes, shootings, to torture on the web. After Abu Graib, soldiers in Iraq camera phones were taken away.

Since last year, the Pentagon publicly announce that it has been systematically shutting down access to video-sharing and social websites that soldiers frequent.

Some websites were pay-for peekshows, cash was paid to any soldier that sold their vids. I don't know whether the Pentagon has had success in shutting those sites down.

[EFerrari]

24. That's at the level of our troops. But, do you see what I'm suggesting?

Whoever is investigating the CIA tape "destruction" has to deal with the larger issue: taping torture was BUSHCO POLICY.

We're looking at war crimes ON TAPE, and MOUNTAINS of it.

We'll know how serious this "investigation" is if they ignore what we can deduce. :shrug:

[flashl]

27. Yes, I understand what you are saying about the policy issue

But, isn't it leading us to an impenetrable wall of denial if we submit to "the tape is destroyed"?

Something about that always been odd to me, we are in the digital age, why are we talking about tape(s)?

[EFerrari]

28. I know. I thought the same thing. Who uses tape?!

There was some language last week that led me to believe, anyway, that tape was used. Casual, undefended language and, I could be wrong.

But, right now, my first concern is to contact people we can trust. I see no reason right now to trust the committee chair Reyes or the ranking member, either. They BOTH seem to have conflicts much as the 9/11 Committee co-chairs did. :shrug:

I think we need to compose a statement to Woolsey, Lee, Conyers, Waxman, Wexler and tell them in no uncertain terms that we KNOW that Bush taped torture as a matter of policy and that we expect them to investigate TapeGate.

And, I think we need to do it NOW.

[flashl]

29. I agree, the time is now.

[Virginia Dare]

42. Probably being used as bargaining chips/insulators

by both the CIA and the Administration. I've thought for a while that there is a deep dark internal struggle going on between the two.

[EFerrari]

44. If there was a live feed, as L. Coyote suggests, that would

account for the cameras all these prisoners' report seeing.

And, what are the chances that J. Coffer Black & Co. WOULDN'T split the feed and keep copies? Bush/Cheney already threw CIA to the wolves once. They're not going there again willingly. They said as much early this week.

[B Calm]

14. I guarantee you Bush and Cheney have copies! Sick SOB's

[EFerrari]

16. I don't know. There are a lot of steps between the tape and the CIC.

Someone saw an opportunity here. :shrug:

[B Calm]

18. Yea, but who ordered the torture....?

[EFerrari]

22. Oh, it's clear the White House did.

What isn't clear is who managed to stay in control of the evidence.

And THAT could wind up being important -- because BushCo is about to be booted from office.

[lovuian]

15. I believe somebody has these tapes

but even if they don't then eye witness testimony has to do with the idea that the tapes were destroyed

[EFerrari]

20. I think it's bigger than just those "destroyed" tapes.

Sy Hersh told us he'd seen TAPE from Abu Graib. Lawyers found tape from the Brooklyn prison where the poor rounded up people were held after 9/11. It's a pattern now.

We know they've been torturing all over the world. And it looks like, their policy was to RECORD these things, just as the Nazis freakin' recorded EVERYTHING.

Somebody is sitting on something that far exceeds this latest CIA flap. :shrug:

[L. Coyote]

19. And, who is pictured in them? Whose voices? Was there live feed to Bush?

Did the videos come into existence because they used live feed to Langley and the White House Operations Center?

Is that the big secret so many crimes now protect? The cover up is proportional to the crime!

[EFerrari]

21. I don't know what to do with that but think, you're onto somethinng.

What if someone like J. Coffer Black wound up with evidence BECAUSE there was a live feed?

Talk about your unintended consequences.

[Warpy]

25. Undoubtedly they're being kept for private enjoyment, er,

training purposes. I have no doubt that copies of the "destroyed" tapes have survived and some of them will eventually be found, probably after the men who made them have gone on to their just reward.

[EFerrari]

26. No, they are bargaining chips. I'm just trying to figure out

what is being bargained for, know what I mean?

Contracts? Influence in 2008? What? :shrug:

I don't care what these sick fucks do. This material is a political chip that someone is holding.

[EFerrari]

30. Kick

[HuffleClaw]

31. bushco. will use this as an opportunity to dismantle and rebuild CIA as a totally politicized

office of the white house

[Oilwellian]

34. Weren't the AbuGhraib photos & videos originally given to Sy Hersh?

It has always been my impression that he was the first recipient of Abu Ghraib evidence. And it has always been a question in my mind as to whether he made copies before turning them over to the Pentagon.

One thing I'm certain of...once those videos become public, the backlash will be immense. Both here and in Iraq. Hersh described a father & son forced to do sexual things to each other...a boy being sodomized and his "shrieking"...a girl getting raped. Really really bad stuff. :(

[EFerrari]

35. I either never knew that or don't remember now.

I do remember him describing terrible things, though.

[Virginia Dare]

41. IIRC, he never actually saw them..

they were described to him by sources, including at least one on the Hill.

[AnnieBW]

37. Cheney.

He wanks off to them whenever he's feeling frisky. It's less harmful to his pacemaker than actual sex.

[MilesColtrane]

38. Junior's got to have something to wank to.

That copy of "Caligula" just doesn't do it anymore when he's trying to rub one out.

[EFerrari]

39. Today Amy Goodman interviewed a man who was rendered to

a prison in Kabul and tortured by us. Although his lawyer doesn't know if there is tape, the victim is reporting that there were video cameras all over the prison. :shrug: