What is wrong with Joe Biden?

[Blue_Roses]

I have YET to see anything substantial that would eliminate him as a someone who would make a great Prez. My respect for him grows each time I listen to him. He's humble and smart as a whip, especially where foreign policy is concerned.

This election is nothing but a f*&^%$# popularity contest. To hell with all us "little people" struggling like hell out there trying to pay rent, fucking gas, health care and all the other bullshit we get thrown in our face. I'm so SICK of it! I'm sick of Bush and I'm sick of politics as usual.

I can see why people are going ballistic these days! The frustration and "Bush fatigue" has people going nuts! I haven't really picked a favorite candidate. I honestly see where each one brings something to the table, however, I know there can only be just one in the end and I don't want to gamble this away.

:argh:

[patrice]

1. Nothing! Except there's only just so much non-DLC resources to go around. nt

[undeterred]

2. He has bad hair.

And he's a corporatist.

[Bucky]

26. I think the hair plugs went in after the brain aneurysm & cranial surgery

It looks stupid, I agree, but it was cosmetic reconstructive surgery, not purely for vanity's sake.

[undeterred]

28. ouch

:banghead:

[Kucinich4America]

33. They don't pluck your hair follicles out for brain surgery, they just shave your head.

If Joe's baldness had come from a razor, it would have grown back.

However his follicles are the least of my concerns about him.

[JerseygirlCT]

108. I imagine the stress of those operations in themselves could

be enough to cause the permanent loss of hair.

Age may also be a factor.

Regardless, I don't know that it matters a bit.

[Froward69]

71. Biden is far less a corporatist,

than Hillary or Edwards.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3842491

or the actual website...
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?Ind=F03

[livvy]

3. Nothing, that's why I support him.

I am concerned about this country and our reputation in the world. We are on the wrong, wrong track on all fronts, and I believe Biden is the only one, if elected, that can make the most positive changes to get us back on the right (left??) track, in the least amount of time.

I also think there would be less chance of a Congressional reversal in the midterm elections, because he is not as controversial as some of the other candidates (and I'm not knocking them...I think they are all basically good people), respected by other Congress critters from both sides of the aisle, and would be able to lead We the People, and a majority of the sheeple as well.

He's got the personality, the brains, the experience, and the respect we need at this precarious point in our history.

grammar edit

[msongs]

6. yeah but he doesn't have OPRAH nt

[livvy]

7. Yes, I'm afraid that's true....

hmmmmmm....yup, I can live with that!

He's got a lot of friends.





:hi:

[NC_Nurse]

4. Vote for bankruptcy bill has hurt him with some of us. nt

[grasswire]

9. did you read the thread explaining the bankruptcy vote?

His vote on the bankruptcy bill was a principled one having to do with the fact that deadbeat dads would first have to pay seven different entities including banks BEFORE they would be forced to pay their child support. His vote was in support of struggling moms and their children.

I did a total turnaround on that issue after reading the speech he gave at the time of the vote.

There's a post here on DU somewhere in the last few days over this.

[NC_Nurse]

14. There is no exception for medical crises. How does THAT help struggling

moms and children? That bill should have been held up until concerns about exceptions were
addressed. Period.

[burythehatchet]

41. that's quite a laughable explanation

Sheer coincidence that the big credit card companies happen to have supported that bill 100%. I suppose they were trying to help those poor moms as well.

[in_cog_ni_to]

5. MY problems with Biden are the Bankruptcy Bill, his connection to the CC corporations and his

connection to the DC insiders. Would he push for an investigation into the crimes this administration has committed? I don't think he would. I don't think Hillary would either. I still haven't heard Edwards say he would. I know Obama won't because he wants "to bring the country together." Obama will be just like Ford was after Nixon resigned...."the country had been through enough" and he didn't want the Nation to endure a long trial...yeah riiiiight. Let the criminal go free instead!

I want a president that will be willing to make these current criminals PAY FOR THEIR CRIMES! They cannot be allowed to get away with all they have done. Now, should Biden come out and SAY or HINT AT an investigation into the crimes, he'd get my vote. I could put the bankruptcy bill issue aside (because the majority we will have in Congress after the election will change it) and vote for him. I will vote for anyone that calls for these crooks to be investigated. Kucinich has said he would, but Kooch isn't going to be prez.

My husband says all the candidates CAN'T say what I want them to say until after the election. I want to know WHY NOT? Why can't they say they will defend our Constitution and make the thugs pay for their crimes? WHY NOT?

[bunkerbuster1]

11. It's ancient history now, but he had Clarence Thomas by the balls

and let him walk out of those confirmation hearings without adequately following up (IMHO) with Thomas' accuser Anita Hill, and people who could've backed her story.

Yes, it was a long time ago, but that lack of resolve stuck us with a 43-year-old right wing asshole on the bench, and we'll be stuck with Thomas for many years to come.

But having said that, I would vote for Biden in the general without reservation, today.

[Kucinich4America]

34. Yet, in more recent years he told Alberto "Speedy" Gonzales

"I like you. You're the real deal."

What was up with THAT, Joe? :wtf:

[grasswire]

13. see post #9

As far as being owned by corporations goes, someone posted the list of his contributors and amounts the other day, and I think the notion was debunked, at least in comparison to the "top tier." Banks gave very little money to Joe, for example.

[in_cog_ni_to]

16. I've read that before. If he wanted to help moms and kids, he could have

written a separate bill from the bankruptcy bill and voted against the bankruptcy bill. Personally, I think he just uses that as an excuse to CHA. I also saw the list of contributors and honestly, why he voted for it means little in light of the fact that it hurts many poor people who are buried in debt. Just voting for it, for whatever reason, is bad, bad, bad. You know he's still connected to the CC corporations. His son is ex VP of MBNA. I'm sure Joe has many dear friends within that banking world.

I will vote for Joe in the GE if he's our candidate, but not in the primary.....unless he says he'll investigate the current criminals. Then I will hope the new Dem majority changes the bankruptcy bill. Call it a trade. He gives me an investigation (pushes for one as prez) and I'll look past his shitty bankruptcy bill vote and bank on Congress to do the right thing with it..:)

[ShaneGR]

48. You do realize that Biden is one of the "poorest" Senators

He ranks 98th out of 100 in personal wealth, I don't even think he's a millionare.

[bdamomma]

94. that is why he is getting no recognition cause he doesn't

have enough money as Hillary or Obama, all the more reason if you like what you hear, give any donation to him. I would love to see him creep in behind Edwards.

[Frustratedlady]

15. Biden is saying they will be charged if found guilty before or after leaving office.

Yesterday, he brought out impeachment and explained his feelings. However, I didn't post it, because I was afraid I'd screw it up. Basically, what I got from his speech was that there were (I'm going to say probably, here, so I don't put words in his mouth) probably enough reasons to impeach, BUT, Cheney would have to be impeached first, or he'd end up as president...which we absolutely didn't want. THEN, he said that they are presently gathering what they need to prove criminal behavior. He mentioned what Leahy is up to and others who are working behind the scenes to amass what is needed to succeed in the processes needed to bring and win a case...before or after leaving office.

I'm like you, I've been waiting for someone to talk about it and lay everything out on the table. I also wanted to hear the words "after leaving" office, if that's what it came down to. I think Joe is probably the only one who has said the words we want to hear, or I've missed it with others (beyond Kucinich), that is. We scoff at Leahy, Conyers, etc., for not acting faster, but they can't jump before they have enough evidence and proof to win. Imagine if we lost...Bush and Cheney would have the last laugh and I don't have the stomach for that. I think that is the best way of explaining MY view of what was said.

I keep remembering the day Cheney told Leahy to F off. Would you let up in your fight to bring him to his knees?

Yes, Biden will discuss it.

[in_cog_ni_to]

17. When did Biden say all of this? I missed it. Was it at a private house party or something? n/t

[Frustratedlady]

18. It was at a public luncheon.

I hope I have the words right, as I wouldn't want to cause him any pain. He talked about impeachment taking too much time, because they would have to impeach Cheney first and it would also take up 9 months or so of attention and time needed in taking care of other issues. If criminal behavior could be proven, they would proceed.

Joe, smack me upside the head if I'm being bad.

[Froward69]

72. see #71

[zabet]

8. We would do well

if Biden were to
be elected. As far as
any of the candidates,
I can point out something
each one has done that I
do not agree with. What
sells Biden best to me is
his foreign relations experience
and expertise. Now a lot of people
would say that he needs to be sec of
state for that very same reason. I
disagree. The global political issues
need to be addressed first and foremost
and I think it would be better to send
the President, not a cabinet member to
rebuild good standing in the global
community. Biden has the knowledge and
the intestional fortitude to pull it off
with ease.

[SoCalDem]

10. He's ordinary..has foot-in-mouth disease and never met a banker he didn't love

:)

[Frustratedlady]

20. He said he's never owned stock and is listed as the (or one of the) candidates

with the lowest wealth. He got loans for his daughter's education and sold their house to pay the loans.

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. That's pretty cool.

:) That's something to be admired.:hi:

[Think82]

58. Ordinary? YOu are sadly misinformed.

Bosnia, Violence Against Women act, the Biden Crime Bill, the first to call for the federalization of Iraq which is the best and only way to end the war w/o leaving chaos behind.

[SoCalDem]

76. ordinary-looking.. not a he-man, or an anchorman or a cutie pie

[Frustratedlady]

12. Too many people are caught up in the star power of the top 3.

Push away the glitz and look at the experience, knowledge and demeanor. I think you'll move to Biden.

He knows the Constitution inside and out, and is determined to put it back where it belongs...in our everyday lives. He isn't afraid to bring out the evils of this administration and lay before us what he will do to correct the situation. I can guarantee you, Joe will restore our civil liberties asap after he hits the seat of that chair in the Oval Office.

He won't promise you the world if he can't give it to you. You know, there are candidates who groom their speeches to the community...ethnic, culture, economy...but I think Joe is more concerned about removing that boulder (Iraq War) so we can get our people home, have the money to get down to the basics, take care of our internal problems and get the world back on our side. Also, keep in mind that Joe has been around for 35 years and can work with both sides of the aisle.

Remember the recent crisis in Pakistan? Well, the world leaders called Joe, not the other way around. Why? Because they know they can level with him. Bush has damaged our image in the world to the point where world leaders laugh at him. Our future will need someone the world leaders can already trust...not someone who will need to spend years building that trust. Our status in the world is probably the most important issue. If Joe is elected, I can see the people of the world applauding and breathing one collective sigh of relief.

Go, Joe!

[AndyTiedye]

19. The Bankruptcy Bill and the Rave Act

With the bankruptcy bill he earned the tag "Biden, (D, MBNA)" by demonstrating that he is in the pocket of the credit card companies, and hiding behind divorced women to do it.

By sneaking the Rave Act into the Amber bill in the conference committee in the dead of night, he totally alienated younger voters, turning some off of politics forever, and sending others into the arms of Ron Paul.

[in_cog_ni_to]

22. Please explain the Rave Act to me? Does it outlaw Raves? Or what? n/t

[AndyTiedye]

78. The Rave Act Is A Huge Attack on Our Freedom of Assembly

It could be used against any gathering the government wanted to shut down.
It has been used against at least one political rally.

Your freedom of assembly evaporates when anybody in the crowd smuggles in a joint.
The owner and organizers can be prosecuted for failing to prevent it, and the threat of this has pretty well destroyed the dance scene in our country.
Now the kids sit at home watching TV and getting fat instead.

This thing would never have passed on its own.

We had been fighting it off for a couple of years.
We were writing letters, making phone calls, delivering petitions against the Rave Act every time it came up.
Our Congresspeople actually listened, and it wasn't going anywhere.

All of the public input was but an annoyance to Biden. He didn't want to hear it.
Biden doesn't dance and doesn't give a damn about those of us who do.
So he grafted the Rave Act onto the Amber Bill in the conference committee in the dead of night.
No chance for either the House or the Senate to vote on it by itself.

No chance to defeat it. Betrayed by one of our own party.

The Democratic party lost millions of young people that day. I fear that more than a few have strayed into the Ron Paul camp.

[DutchLiberal]

23. Didn't he vote for the Iraq War Resolution and didn't he utter language more hawkish than Bush?

Why, yes he did.

[Blue_Roses]

25. he along with a few "named" others

old news...

[DutchLiberal]

52. It DOES answer the question "what's wrong with Biden".

And NO, it's not old news. It needs to be repeated over and over again, especially considering Biden presents himself as the 'expert' on Iraq.

[Blue_Roses]

55. you live in the Netherlands...

nice for you to notice our imperfections:eyes:

[tabasco]

73. What's the problem with that?

Is there a rule that people from Holland can't post opinions here or do you just not like the ugly truth?

[bdamomma]

95. not only people in Holland are noticing what is going on in the US

there are many ex-pats who live outside of the box who are shaking their heads in utter amazement and disappointment that these thugs are still in office. Plus their news in Europe is not as sanitized as our stupid media. What a shame to keep the citizens of America so dumbed down.

[DutchLiberal]

91. Congratulations, you just made the biggest non-argument ever on DU!

[KittyWampus]

77. Well, since you don't know what the Biden-Lugar Amendment was and think it's irrelevantt

to discussing Biden and the Iraq War, it turns out you're opinion doesn't have much weight.

Not trying to be nasty.

Just pointing out you are not offering a well-informed opinion and just parroting what others have said.

[DutchLiberal]

92. Well, seeing your avatar doesn't give me the impression you can be reasoned with about this topic.

Biden is perfect and every criticism of his is uninformed parroting, am I right?

[KittyWampus]

29. Didn't he co-sponsor the Biden-Lugar Amendment? Why, yes he did.

[DutchLiberal]

53. I don't know what that is, but whatever it is, it isn't relevant. He voted for IWR. Period.

[Think82]

56. The B-L amendment would have put constraintson Bush's ability to go to war while still being firm

with Iraq. It was voted down.

[Think82]

57. More hawkish than Bush? What are you on? Biden tried to limit the scope of the resolution

[DutchLiberal]

90. I have read some pretty hawkish quotes from him, here at DU. Seemed like Bush.

(No, I do not recall where this was posted, nor did I save them.)

[blondeatlast]

102. He's also the only prez candidate from the Senate who voted NO on Kyl/Lieberman.

Pretty recent, you could look it up.

He's also challenged Bush in OUR media on Bush's aggression toward Iraq--but you have no way of knowing that, well...

Besides the internet... :eyes:

[DutchLiberal]

104. Yes, you're right, I'm completely backwards...

:eyes:

[skipos]

24. Like all the candidates, he has his DU haters. I have grown to like him a lot

WHy doesn't he get more attention? It certainly isn't his voting record, which has flubs like Obama, Edwards, Clinton, Dodd and Kucinich. He is a great speaker. He isn't ugly. In my opinion, MSM a white male isn't as exciting to MSM. He also isn't the "insider" with mega connections like Hillary.

He is one of the few candidates that, if nominated, wouldn't have to pick a VP that brings perceived experience to the ticket. He could pick anyone he wansts, like Obama or Richardson or any of the good Dem male and female governors we have in the US.

There are interested tidbits to his story... youngest senator ever elected, pledged to never by stocks so he could avoid the conflict of interest in the senate, take public transport to and from DC so he can be with his family, the tragedies he has overcome, etc.

I think he would be our strongest candidate in the general election. I think many republican voters will be looking for experience if Mitt or Huckster is nominated, and Biden would definitely appeal to them.

[CrispyQ]

39. Biden/Boxer

Swoon! The ticket of my dreams!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

66. Hear Hear To That!

[blondeatlast]

103. I like it, I like it! nt

[Tejas]

27. Do you mean besides

grandstanding for an even MORE ridiculous crime bill than Feinstein?

Besides that, I thought he was sorta okay.

[Didereaux]

30. Joe Biden is intelligent...average people cannot abide intelligence! n/t

[Eurobabe]

31. He's human

and yes, he's got some flaws, but hey, they ALL do. But my money is on Biden.

:hi:

[Kucinich4America]

32. It's never a good thing to have a PNAC association.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/russia-20040928.htm

Sure his supporters will scream that "it's only one fucking letter", but that's one letter too many, especially when it was signed long after the goals and objectives of PNAC were well known to anybody who cared enough to be informed. And one would hope that the Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations committee would fall under that category.

[whirlygigspin]

37. bwah!!!

:rofl:


all these questionable posts have been proved wrong time after time here on DU :smoke:


if you beleive it, I have a 'swiftboat' to sell ya :freak:


but try again

--Biden the corporatist :silly:

:rofl: --->Biden has never even bought stock, as to avoid conflict of interest :beer:


--Biden in the pocket of the credit card companies :nopity:

:rofl: --->um, not pocket--STATE--they are in his state! that's his JOB! :think:

PNAC---> :rofl: yup, Joe's just pretending to have a plan to end the war so he can keep it going for Halliburton, hahaha! :tinfoilhat:

OMG! thanks for the good laugh, I needed that. :toast:

and on and on...we know its all triangulation :woohoo:

[AndyTiedye]

82. Biden (D, MBNA)

--Biden in the pocket of the credit card companies

--->um, not pocket--STATE--they are in his state! that's his JOB!

That's why we used to say Biden (D, MBNA) though I guess that will be (D, BofA) since the buyout. I'm sure the new bankruptcy bill considerably increased the value of the company.

I think there are some actual people who live in Delaware too, but they don't matter much.

[Radical Activist]

35. I've been wondering what's wrong with Biden for a long time.

Sometimes he's on his game and sounds great. Other times he just says the most idiotic stuff. Its back and forth. He's the manic Senator.

[loyalsister]

36. I see those qualities

and I want to like him. I like him on foreign policy.
But, there are things that rub me wrong. He is the picture of white male privilege.
When it comes to women's rights, he makes token claims and sponsors a few pieces of legislation to prove he can be a protector. But when it comes down taking a stand WITH women like the PBA bill or Clarence Thomas, he's not there.
Likewise he has not taken the strong stand against bigotry that people do as when they take the little things seriously. "Ah, it's just one of those politically correct words."

His greatest asset is that he is an expert politician. He knows how to be an everyday guy, despite having lived among Delaware's elite for most of his adult life. He reminds me of my own state representative who can get teary at good times during speeches. He's exporting the small state campaign and doing a nice job. Good politicians are good method actors. Joe is an expert, and would make a good candidate if he were somehow selected.
In fact, he would make for a good "dark horse" candidate at this juncture.

I don't think that delegitimizes my reasons for him not being my favorite, however.
This is not an objective process. There is no real objective measure for anyone's reasoning in this process. To each his\her own.

[whirlygigspin]

40. 'This is not an objective process'

I'm glad you don't particularly like Biden, I hate to see people vote only on emotion or 'feeling'
(i.e.--he's so handsome!) :puke:

As for "things that rub me wrong--the picture of white male privilege"

I think you've hit the nail on the head, as it were
Biden 'looks' like the traditional power structure (old white guys)
I think that's his biggest problem

--even though he's never lived in DC; never owned stock; never meets with lobbyists and takes public transit everyday, people still just see an old white senator--it's sad that this sort of reverse prejudice keeps many people from choosing the most qualified person.

I guess that's why we end up with people like Bush as president--he doesn't 'look' like an elitist



"...and so it goes"

[loyalsister]

45. Behavior

language. I cited the example of not standing WITH women.
Apparently he sees nothing wrong with acting the part.

I find the term "reverse predjudice" exteremely offensive. IMO There is no such thing as "reverse predjudice." Calling it "reverse predjudive" suggests that there is a forward predjudice, implying that there is a "correct" direction. I don't believe that there is.

In this case I would scratch the loaded term "predjudice" and replace it with bias. (replace it if it makes you happy)
I think that bias in any direction is bias.
I acknowledge my own bias. That point of primaries is to gain a bias.

He tries to turn focus on his length of service status\fatherly status as the most capable coming in as the great savior.
But never acknowleges that he comes from the top tier despite being in the second teir and has received significant benefits from that privilege.

He has not had the sense of awareness of the details of racism have some consciousness about picking up automatic unfortunately offensive language. Or to not be automatically aware of concepts that have racist overtones.

Even Hillary acknowledges that she has benefited from privilege. I am not sure about Dodd or Edwards, but they haven't taken the same positions as Biden.

These things are a piece of my evaluation and I think they are important. We can argue all evening, but these variables belong to us. I don't see us convincing one another. I think that our personal variables objective or subject deserve respect.

[Recursion]

38. Personally, nothing wrong; he just doesn't inspire me

It's true there's nothing wrong with him, and I'd vote for him over any Republican in a heartbeat, but every time I've heard the guy talk it just doesn't click with me.

Totally personal taste thing, I know; but then that "click" is the biggest part of a President's job, really.

[CrispyQ]

42. "but then that "click" is the biggest part of a President's job, really.'

Gasp! Do you really believe that? That sounds like the people who voted for the puppet because he's who they would most like to have a beer with.

[Recursion]

44. Evil isn't always factually wrong

They were right about one thing: a President's main purpose is to be the one person in the whole Federal government that every single person in the country (indirectly) voted on.

[CrispyQ]

63. No. The President's purpose is to

"...preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

This is not a popularity contest, in spite of the fact that many Americans approach it that way & the media presents it that way. We are not voting for student council president, we are voting for the person most capable of upholding the oath of office, the key part of which is quoted above.

[whirlygigspin]

43. but that's precisely the point

Biden 'clicks' with the power structure-- so he's able to get things done

[Kucinich4America]

46. That's not really the best endorsement of your candidate

considering how entirely FUCKED UP the "power structure" is at the moment. Who would want to "click" with them?

[whirlygigspin]

49. Who would want to "click" with them?

Someone who wants to become President and actually get things done?

and who is them? The power structure totally revolves around money, so it doesn't matter if it's Dean, Pelosi, Kucinich, (like it or not, he's been in D.C. a long time) Hillary, Carville, Edwards, Exxon, Enron, Obama or all the bloviating gasbags on TV who are all paid by the CIA anyway--it's still 'all about the money'--so, unless you can pass public funding of elections (something Biden has been trying to get people to 'Click' with for 25 years, nothing will change, no matter who you elect, even if they are right--like Dennis or John Edwards. Ok John knows it's a fixed game, so what's his plan? tear down a wall? wtf does that mean? it means, aside a bloody revolution, he won't be able to do diddly squiddly; but he's got faith, hallelujia, no gays in his choir.
Even, god bless him, Louis Farrakhan knows the game is fixed, he rails and rants but what can he do?
Marginalize, demonized, ignored.

The Dean scream is a perfect example of this, here was a candidate that was wildly popular, raised tons of money going into Iowa and was blown out of the water by the media for talking about restoring the 'fairness doctrine'--he's a quiet man now, ain't he though. Don't hear him scream too much anymore, do you? Is he still trying to tear down that wall? You bet and he's doing the best he can from the position he's in--but is he in a strong enough position to pass such a simple thing as election reform/voting rights for all? NO--So what's missing? All these people are fine, caring people to be sure, but if they aren't in the right position TO GET THINGS DONE ('clicking' with the Congress to get them to agree with you to PASS LAWS (read how to affect CHANGE)
then your screwn, so to speak.

So again--who can best do that right now?

to be both blunt and obtuse, BIDEN is in the best position for that one purpose.

nothing to do with LIKE/FEEL/man/woman/black/white/gay/straight/left/right/jew/jain/north/south/chicken or fish/
-name it.
doesn't mean he's better than anybody else, doesn't mean anyone is less

word

[Think82]

59. Try this! :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1op8vwF5UA

[Truth2Tell]

47. I have a hard time

getting a particular image out of my head from back in September 2003 - as it became clear that Saddam had no WMD, the war was going to be a huge clusterfuck, and the war's approval ratings were dropping from the 70%s to the 40%s - when Joe Biden took to the talk show circuit with Joe Lieberman and John McCain to try and shore up public support. One particular appearance - on Good Morning America - where Joe became heatedly animated and declared that "We must win!" "We must win!" It was extremely disturbing and it just sticks in my head.

Here’s an informative DU Post on Biden's history of attacking war critics in the Democratic Party:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3816788

And this is what Joe Biden evidently thinks about the foreign policy views held by progressive Democrats, as described in this Biden endorsed paper "Progressive Internationalism: A Democratic National Security Strategy":

Too many on the left seem incapable of taking America's side in international disputes, reflexively oppose the use of force, and begrudge the resources required to keep our military strong. Viewing multilateralism as an end in itself, they lose sight of goals, such as fighting terrorism or ending gross human rights abuses, which sometimes require us to act -- if need be outside a sometimes ineffectual United Nations. And too many adopt an anti-globalization posture that would not only erode our own prosperity but also consign billions of the world's neediest people to grinding poverty. However troubling the Bush record, the pacifist and protectionist left offers no credible alternative.

http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?contentid=252144&subsecid=900020&knlgAreaID=450004

If you don't think Biden agrees with these DLC positions on National Security and trade, just read the speech he gave to the DLC to celebrate the release of this paper:

As this document stresses, which I hope you'll all read, the right place is, quote, "the vital center between the neo-imperial right and the non-interventionist left" -- end of quote. We want to see America exercising its strength and leadership. It will not be shy about exercising its responsibilities to combat terror, tyranny, genocide or oppression.

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=106&subid=122&contentid=252157

People should understand where Biden is coming from. He has a history of behaving like a "centrist," DLC, American Empire, Lieberman, Credit Card Company, AIPAC, NAFTA Democrat. He's buried a lot of this under the sheets for his Presidential run (at least for the primaries).

I like the "new" Biden, and I'd love to believe that he hasn't just shifted to "defend the Constitution and stop the war" mode because he's running in a Presidential primary. But I gotta tell ya, it's a hard sell.

[whirlygigspin]

50. have no fear dear champion of peace

"I'd love to believe that he hasn't just shifted to "defend the Constitution and stop the war" mode because he's running in a Presidential primary"


Well,


1) defend the Constitution: well, he's a Constitutional Law professor, so there's a good chance he wants to restore the constitution and speaks passionately about it, often. I suggest youtube.


2)stop the war, maybe because his son is scheduled to go to Iraq might have some larger bearing on his conviction


do you really think he cares more about the Presidential primary than his son's life?
besides being in bad taste, it makes Kucinich look bad to infer something so craven.

[Truth2Tell]

54. to infer that a politician would adjust their positions

for a primary is craven?

Biden has spent his long career as one of the key spokesmen for the bi-partisan consensus that has driven American foreign policy since WWII. I have some issues with that. I like Biden. He's smart, articulate and a liberal champion for many issues I care about. I would work for his election against a Republican. But what I really want is a candidate committed to going in an entirely different direction on foreign policy - smaller military budget, fewer overseas bases, etc. Biden is not that - and I think it's important that Democrats understand that.

The cornerstone of U.S. foreign policy right now is the maintenance of our ability to project violent force anywhere on earth whenever and wherever we choose. I firmly believe that policy is making our nation less safe for my children - not more safe. I believe it is bankrupting us morally and financially. For me it's the number one issue. And it's an issue where I - and many other Democrats - fundamentally disagree with Joe Biden. It seems Biden would like the anti-war faction of the Party to forget about this fundamental disagreement while he runs for President - thus what appears to be his shift in focus - craven or not.

[Ishoutandscream2]

51. I'll say it again, I like the man more and more each day

I believe he has run a fine campaign. I'm still working on my decision, but he is definitely in my top 3.

[eridani]

60. He fucked the "liitle people" big time with his sociopathic Bankruptcy Bill

He's good on foreign policy, though, so why not Secretary of State?

[Froward69]

74. I am one of those "Little people" the bankruptcy bill helps

http://biden.senate.gov/newsroom/details.cfm?id=234426&&
http://money.cnn.com/2005/04/20/pf/bankruptcy_bill/index.htm

I am a self employed small business owner. under the old rules i was dismissed out right. under the new rules i stand shoulder to shoulder to CC companies in court. just behind child support. Bankruptcy needed to be overhauled. and frankly you cannot keep any assets hidden now. (like you used to) one must pay their debts.

[eridani]

87. I'm so delighted that you will never get sick.

Unlike half the people who file for bankruptcy because of medical bills. People can be so goddam smug it's sickening.

[usaftmo]

61. He's from a state with only 3 electoral votes.

That prevents him from getting on the radar of the electoral college. That's a problem that I see any politician from Delaware having to struggle with.

Combining that with actions viewed as corporate-friendly (bankruptcy) wipes out any real chance he has of getting the Democratic nomination.

I was stationed in Delaware from 91-93 and followed his record more closely back then. For the most part I approve of his actions/votes. Getting the party's nomination isn't realistic IMHO.

[Toots]

62. Maybe it would be helpful to analyze his voting record.

:shrug: He has been around long enough to either ruffled a lot of feathers or been a bump on a log. It may be interesting to find out which..

[THUNDER HANDS]

64. this election is nothing but people picking who they would like to be president

it's sickening, they should pick who we tell them is good for them.

I mean, that's pretty much your point, right?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

65. I Agree Completely. He's Continued To Impress Me Through All Of This.

In fact, I'm quite amazed he isn't a front runner here. In the real world, I can see how the media and status quo can alter the minds of the normals to only pay attention to the front runner that THEY deem relevant.

But here, where we are supposed to think for ourselves and use critical thought and an objective eye to make our own decisions, it has always perplexed me a bit that he isn't far more popular or widely supported as it relates to who we'd want as a candidate. I think he's by far the most presidentially solid of all of them.

[MiniMe]

67. The MSM has already annointed the top 3, and Joe isn't one of them

I also think that Biden and Dodd appeal to basically the same group of people, and they are taking polling numbers away from each other. If one of them dropped out (not saying they should, just if), the other would probably pull almost all of their votes.

[Beelzebud]

68. Biden recently voted to fuck over the "little guy" with the bankruptcy bill.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that he's looking out for the little guy.

[Froward69]

75. see #74

[Junkdrawer]

69. Screwed the pooch on Iraq WMD in 2002...(but he did predict the post-war chaos)...

....

Sen. Joe Biden, the committee chairman, said Bush is justified in being concerned about Iraq's pursuit of weapons of mass destruction.

"One thing is clear: These weapons must be must be dislodged from Saddam, or Saddam must be dislodged from power," said Biden, D-Delaware.

The hearings were "not designed to prejudge any particular course of action," Biden said. But he cautioned that considerable thought must be given to the U.S. role in Iraq if it wages a successful assault.

"In Afghanistan, the war was prosecuted exceptionally well, but the follow-through commitment to Afghanistan's security and reconstruction has, in my judgment, fallen short," Biden said. "It would be a tragedy if we removed a tyrant in Iraq only to leave chaos in his wake."

...


http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/07/31/senate.iraq.hearing/

[mwb970]

70. All of the Democratic candidates look good to me, including Biden.

It's funny - the Democratic primary race is close because Democratic voters can't figure out which candidate they like the most, whereas the Republican primary race is close because Republican voters can't figure out which candidate they dislike the least.

I'd rather be us than them.

[momto3]

99. Good point - I totally agree. eom

[Raine]

79. I really like him but unfortunately

he often has loose lips and says things like the notorious "clean and articulate" statement. I just fear the re piggies would get him to really "open" up and then use it against him. I still would love for him to get the nomination cause I think *IF* he could get elected he would be great.

[Marie26]

80. Bankruptcy Bill & general arrogance

I don't support Biden because of his close ties to the credit card industry. But I didn't start personally disliking him until I watched his "questioning" in the Supreme Court nomination hearings. He talked, talked, talked, cracked jokes, explained his political positions - and half the time wouldn't even get to a question. Very annoying!

[whirlygigspin]

83. 'close ties'

if you mean by 'close ties that the cc co's are in his state, then yes, you know--
that's his job!

no need to excuse yourself--many people didn't like Biden 20 years ago in the hearings, neither did I at the time.

[Marie26]

100. True

20 years ago? I was referring to the Alito hearing, last year! LOL. He is the senator from Delaware, so he's going to have to kiss up to the credit card companies. Doesn't mean I have to like it! But I do agree that Biden's got a lot of good qualities - he's experienced, knowledgable & eloquent. And he's really been socking it to the Bush Ad. on the Iran issue. IMO he'd make a great Sec. of State.

[Javaman]

81. two words: hair plugs.

:rofl:

[whirlygigspin]

84. I care about hair

hair as a basis for voting, great concept!

[Warren DeMontague]

86. Slamming San Francisco is a piss-poor way to boost your man, Jack.

In case you hadn't noticed, we have a lot of Democrats here.

[whirlygigspin]

88. I was refering to the picture...

from Beach Blanket Babylon

I love San Francisco!

(i.e. hair as a basis for voting)

nothing to do with the city...how funny

[Warren DeMontague]

101. I thought maybe that was supposed to be DiFi.

You're right, it is a funny picture.

[whirlygigspin]

106. OMFG!

I never thought of it, but yeah, she does look like DiFi! lol



***Happy Holidays!***

[Warren DeMontague]

85. RAVE act. He has a history of sounding like a Neo-Con. But, that said, he's smart and he's done well

this time around.. and he's got a solid resume (if you ignore draconian idiocies like, again, the RAVE act)

I would not be surprised to see him end up in the #2 slot. And If we have a serious shake up, he may well have a shot at the big enchilada.

[whirlygigspin]

89. DU a great place to Rant & Rave!

[Marrah_G]

93. I like Biden- Right now he is my first choice

We need Wisdom right now and I believe he has that. He isn't flashy or dramatic, he is thoughtful and wise. Right now he gives me more hope then any of the others.

[bdamomma]

96. I wouldn't be disappointed if I woke and found out Biden

was sitting in the oval office.

[xultar]

97. KICK

[Orsino]

98. Other than his being a corporate whore, nothing.

He is capable of thundering out stirring pronouncements about what is right while he sells us into bondage.

[whirlygigspin]

107. Biden as corporate bondage master??? sounds kinky but not true

Do you hear a Quack!?!

Does it walk like a duck?

Quack! Quack! Quack!

[pinto]

105. He'd be a good choice., imho. There's no (R) that can beat our slate.