"Hillary Clinton Heavy into Rightwing Religious Power Cult" - The Progressive Dec. 13

[autorank]

http://tinyurl.com/24c2j6">HILLARY CLINTON HEAVY INTO RIGHTWING RELIGIOUS POWER CULT

Dec. 13, 2007
Washington, D.C.

MOTHER JONES - Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. "A lot of evangelicals would see that as just cynical exploitation," says the Reverend Rob Schenck, a former leader of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who now ministers to decision makers in Washington. "I don't....there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer.". . .

When Clinton first came to Washington in 1993, one of her first steps was to join a Bible study group. For the next eight years, she regularly met with a Christian "cell" whose members included Susan Baker, wife of Bush consigliere James Baker; Joanne Kemp, wife of conservative icon Jack Kemp; Eileen Bakke, wife of Dennis Bakke, a leader in the anti-union Christian management movement; and Grace Nelson, the wife of Senator Bill Nelson, a conservative Florida Democrat.

Clinton's prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or "the Family"), a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to "spiritual war" on behalf of Christ, many of them recruited at the Fellowship's only public event, the annual National Prayer Breakfast. (Aside from the breakfast, the group has "made a fetish of being invisible," former Republican Senator William Armstrong has said.) The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan.

Clinton declined our requests for an interview about her faith, but in Living History, she describes her first encounter with Fellowship leader Doug Coe at a 1993 lunch with her prayer cell at the Cedars, the Fellowship's majestic estate on the Potomac. Coe, she writes, "is a unique presence in Washington: a genuinely loving spiritual mentor and guide to anyone, regardless of party or faith, who wants to deepen his or her relationship with God."

More: http://prorev.com/index.htm

[MonkeyFunk]

1. OMG!

She prays with conservatives!!

Come on... this is as stupid as the Skull & Bones crap in '04.

[autorank]

3. Here you go...Atlantic Magazine, not a new story...just a new source

The Atlantic: Hillary's take two
How Hillary Clinton turned herself into the consummate Washington player

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15157545/

By Joshua Green
Sr. Editor, The Atlantic Monthly
The Atlantic
updated 2:59 p.m. ET, Fri., Oct. 6, 2006

Of the many realms of power on Capitol Hill, the least understood may be the lawmakers’ prayer group. The tradition of private worship in small, informal gatherings is one that stretches back for generations, as does a genuine tendency within them to transcend partisanship, though as with so much that is religiously oriented in Washington, the chief adherents are the more conservative Republicans.

Most of the prayer groups are informally affiliated with a secretive Christian organization called the Fellowship, established in the 1930s by a Methodist evangelist named Abraham Vereide, whose great hope was to preach the word of Jesus to political and business leaders throughout the world. Vereide believed that the best way to change the powerful was through discreet personal ministry, and over his lifetime he succeeded to a remarkable degree. The first Senate prayer group met over breakfast in 1943; a decade later one of its members, Senator Frank Carlson, persuaded Dwight Eisenhower to host a Presidential Prayer Breakfast, which has become a tradition.

Though it still sponsors what is now called the National Prayer Breakfast, the Fellowship scrupulously avoids publicity, as Vereide insisted it must. “If you want to help people, Jesus said, you don’t do your alms in public,” Douglas Coe, the group’s leader since the late 1960s, said in a rare interview several years ago.

[MonkeyFunk]

4. Yeah

I read that Atlantic article when it came out. It was pretty flattering to Clinton - showed how she kept her head down, worked hard, and gained the respect of her colleagues.

[The Straight Story]

7. ok, so she prays. I do too. And as far as it being a secretive group

they can't be too secretive or we wouldn't be reading about it here ;)

[autorank]

24. Just read about it.

Harpers Magazine
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525

Rev. Mark Roberts - series
http://tinyurl.com/ywdkvc

[journalist3072]

14. Exactly. It's no one's business but her's, who she prays with.

Even though I consider myself progressive/left of center, this is what turns me off from others on the left. It seems they want no acknowledgement of religion or faith whatsoever. Some people on the left seem to have an extreme adversion to anything remotely acknowledging religion.

This is a non-story. Who she prays with is her business.

[Howardx]

34. bullshit

who she prays with is everyones business especially if they are bound and determined to subvert the constitution and establish a theocracy.

[journalist3072]

36. And who says that the people she prays with want to subvert the constitution and establish a

theocracy? Are you just making this stuff up as you go along?

And again, no, it's not your business who Sen. Clinton prays with. Her prayer life is none of your business.

This faux outrage on your part is sickening.

[MadHound]

50. Umm, that would be the people Hillary is praying with that are making those statements

Let's start off with John Ashcroft, from his speech at Bob Jones University:

"Unique among the nations, America recognized the source of our character as being godly and eternal, not being civic and temporal. And because we have understood that our source is eternal, America has been different. We have no king but Jesus."

Let's see what Senator Brownback had to say about separation of church and state as he bowed out of the race back in October:

"And we must always remember that the separation of church and state was meant to protect the church from the state, not the state from the church. We must continue to embrace God in our nation, including in our schools and in the public square."

And don't you think that Joe Lieberman about said it all in an interview with PBS back in 1999?:

"As a people we need to reaffirm our faith and renew the dedication of our nation and ourselves to God and God's purposes."

How much longer do you want me to go on? Look at the people that Hillary is hanging with. They're certainly not your ordinary run of the mill Christian, these people are theists, they want one country under their religion.

Sure, I can hear you, Hillary is just praying with these people. The trouble is she's not just praying with them. How much business have you seen get done after a Sunday morning service. I've seen plenty, enough that if Christ came down he'd have to pull another ass whooping on the money changers in the temple. Are you honestly going to sit there and tell me that this little circle of prayer buddies don't talk politics? I've got a bridge to sell you to.

That's why this issue about Hillary's littler prayer meeting is such a big deal. Hell, we're not asking for purity, this is politics. But Hillary is essentially sharing a spiritual experience with those whose stated purpose has been and is nothing less than the establishment of a theocratic state. Hell, Ashcroft has gone so far as to have been annointed with oil when he became governor, senator and AG.

You are known by the people you associate with. If Hillary is so very cozy with this theocratic group, one begins to wonder where her priorities are. Less and less with the Constitution, that ol' separation of church and state:shrug:

[John Q. Citizen]

55. Have you seen the list of who is a member? It's right in the story. Yes, they are pro theocracy,

as that is the whole point and belief about their club, that God chose them to be the leaders.

If Hillary Clinton weren't a Senator or a candidate for pres, then her life might be none of my business. She forfeited the right to anonymity in her personal life when she became a public figure. Who she prays with is most certainly our business.

[Occulus]

59. You don't know much about The Family, do you? n/t

[Bongo Prophet]

72. Has no interest in that, obviously.

Apparently, theocracy is not a problem for many. Not a troubling thought at all.

At least not if it involves their candidate.
Now, if it were ANOTHER candidate? Maybe, maybe not.
Perhaps these same people were untroubled by Bush and his ties to fundie torturers, or Blackwater theofascists, or CRUSADE mogering either.
Perhaps these people think Romney saying religion is NECESSARY to freedom is A-OK.
Or Huckabee gives them no pause when he spews shit about AIDS quarantines.

I have lived through too much fundie nonsense to be so blithely unconcerned.
It seems like they are blinded because it is THEIR candidate.
Being non-affiliated, I am not so blinded.
I was and am a Kerry supporter, a Gore supporter, a Feingold supporter - but if this story were about them, I would read and be concerned.
Perhaps I would write my candidate and tell them so.
Perhaps I would vote for them regardless - but the vitriol spewed here, mixed with the "who cares, it's all private" is kind of bizarre.

The pity is that we can't even discuss the implications of religious associations without it descending into the internecine shit flinging.

I am less concerned about Hillary changing her position on abortion, say, (not gonna happen) than a certain cosiness with people who are CLEARLY in some very dark and nefarious mindspace.
Maybe she is disarming them with her charm, and making them see that liberals are human too, and all that dominionist theocracy until Jeezus returns is a bad idea, and they will all become ecumenical in time.
A miracle.

Or maybe bitwit will get his wish, and she will REIGN IN TERROR TO ANYONE WHO EVER SAID ANYTHING BAD ABOUT HER!
I doubt it, but really do not know.
I can admit that.

[Beausoleil]

80. From the article:

"The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan"

Now how does that square with the Constitution's provisions for the "elite" to win power or their role in "God's plan"? Nowhere in the Constitution that I know about. I thought the Constitution provided for The People to grant "power", not that it was "won" by the "elite" "by the will of God".

I really don't think any of this garbage is backed up by the Christian Bible, either. I must have missed where Jesus said, "Blessed are the elite, for they will win power by the will of God."

[Howardx]

87. do some research jerky

before you start name calling.

[mod mom]

41. exactly! We need to keep religion out of government and stay away from these

secretive sects.

[emilyg]

35. I agree.

[caty]

52. If you want religion,

go to church. Religion has no place in government. Ethics is what is needed in our government. Something a lot of right wingers know nothing about. They think they can do something wrong, ask for forgiveness, and go on their merry way. An ethical person knows that when he does something wrong, he will have to pay for it in some way.

[journalist3072]

54. Your comment is just so off base

First of all, I disagree with your assertion that religion has no place in government. Our government makes money that proclaims "In God We Trust."

Secondly, you don't think even public officials such as politicians have a right to express their religion, so long as they are not trying to keep other people frome expressing theirs?

[Occulus]

60. It's because of the christian religion and a great many of its adherents

that I can't get married in my home state. It is ALSO because of christianity and a great many of its adherents that the full faith and credit clause of the US Constitution does not apply to marriages in the whole TWO states that allow it.

It is the expression of faith by public officials that, in part, inflames bigotry against me and people like me. It is because of the religious faith of some politicians that I cannot serve openly in the US military.

Would you like me to give some more examples of why reflections of religious faith in public policy is a bad thing, or is it enough on its own that I and people like me are a prima facie case of why that's the case?

[caty]

61. I never said that....

"Secondly, you don't think even public officials such as politicians have a right to express their religion, so long as they are not trying to keep other people from expressing theirs?"

They can express it all they want in church and their homes or other nongovernmental functions. But when it comes to our government, we need a strict separation between church and state. Keep in mind that not all Americans are Christians. And the ones who are not, are still citizens who pay taxes.

We've seen in other countries, including our own, the harm that comes when religion and government mix. Politicians use it as an excuse to do the wrong things and then say they did it in the name of religion. God spoke to them is their reasoning. Right wingers have given religion a bad name in this country.

[magellan]

67. The "In God We Trust" crap started after the Civil War

It wasn't part of the Constitution that our money had to say that. It resulted from the increased religious sentiment brought about during the Civil War. Similarly, it wasn't until 1956 that "In God We Trust" became the motto of the United States. Not coincidentally, McCarthyism was in full flow at the time.

Religion always enjoys a revival during fearful times.

As for politicians having a right to express their religion, of course, as they always have -- in measure. But the moment they stray into "This is a CHRISTIAN nation" and similar bs that excludes other religions and the non-religious, they've gone too far. Unless the point is to divide people. Religious fervor is great for that.

[MadHound]

71. First of all, the whole money thing, along with the 'under God' in the pledge, were added in the '50

It was all done as part of the great Red scare, when some Americans honestly thought that adding such words were like garlic to a vampire and would give away the communists among us. Crazy, right.

Secondly, yes, politician have the right to express their religion, in their church, in the privacy of their own home. However they shouldn't bring it to the office and let their religion dictate what they are going to do in office. This is not a Christian, or any other kind of religious country. It was founded as a secular country, and should stay that way.

[roguevalley]

84. as long as she doesn't implement their shit in our lives, ie, subservient

submission to husbands shit for one thing. I don't trust fundies ever. It is truly not good news to me that she associates in this, especially since she agrees to sex segregation.

[Marr]

56. edited

[LostinVA]

2. Oh God, not this again

I'm just waiting for someone to link -- again -- to the fake HRC page and insist it's her official site.

Ugh. She's a Methodist.

And, that's all I'm saying about this.

[autorank]

6. Doesn't matter what she is. That's her business. This is a religio-political group.

It's the Progresive Review, Sam Smith, long time DC writer. Solid site.

Google it:

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22The+Progressive+Review%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[LostinVA]

27. don't need to Google it, and I don't care

As Monkeyfunk said, it's like the Skull & Bones garbage during the last election.

[Cha]

44. Riiiight..

[Kurovski]

48. That's cute!

I never saw those guys before.

:hi:, zidzi!

[Cha]

88. Time they were brought out..

Doncha think? :hi: Kurovski!

[Bongo Prophet]

68. GW is a Methodist too, so that is neither here nor there.

I have friends that are Methodists, good progressive people - and there are right wing Methodists as well.
In fact, there is a power struggle going on within that sect, not unlike what happened to the Baptists.
Jimmy Carter and Jerry Falwell, you know?

SOME of us can look at the facts of this and draw our own conclusions - no need for a swarm of flying monkeys from ANY candidate.
If it were Biden or Obama or Kucinich? Same deal.

Maybe she wants to make peace with Bakers and Bushes and Santorum, et al.
Maybe she is getting close to them to see how they think and connect somehow.
Or outmaneuver them somehow.
Or fit in.
Maybe she wants to make lots of money with them.
Maybe she wants to love her neighbor as herself.
Or love her enemies, as Jesus advised.
Does that upset you?

She should be careful running with that crowd, as they carry knives and keep them sharp.
I am sure she will, because she is pretty sharp herself, don't you agree?

So why worry?
Have a little faith.
No need for you to go into an all out tizzy about it.
That's all I'm saying about this.
Harumph.


Oy.

[The Straight Story]

5. I hear she wears a blue dress while praying, and only eats farm raised babies

not the free range ones like Obama....
:rofl:

[autorank]

8. Organic too, but by the new standards so that doesn't help.

Pretty funny - read up on the group.

History
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_(Christian_political_organization)#History

The Family was founded in Seattle in 1935 by Abraham Vereide, a Norwegian immigrant and traveling preacher who had been working with the city's poor, and who feared that Socialist politicians were about to take over Seattle's municipal government.<2> Prominent members of Seattle's business community recognized his success with those who were "down and out" and asked him to give spiritual direction to their group who were "up and out." He organized Christian prayer breakfasts for politicians and businessmen that included anti-Communism and anti-union discussions. He was subsequently invited to set up similar meetings among political and business leaders in San Francisco and Chicago. By 1942, the organization had moved headquarters to Washington, DC, where it helped create breakfast groups in the U.S. Senate and the House of Representatives. In 1944, the organization's name was changed to International Christian Leadership, then in 1972, to The Fellowship Foundation. It was at this time that the group's leaders decided to lower the Fellowship's public profile by decentralizing its leadership.

The organization has been criticized for its relationships with dictators, including Brazilian dictator Marshal Artur da Costa e Silva, General Suharto of Indonesia, Salvadoran general Carlos Eugenios Vides Casanova, and Honduran general Gustavo Alvarez Martinez.

Fellowship members have been active in reconciliation efforts between the warring leaders of The Democratic Republic of the Congo and Rwanda.

The organization has operated under other names, including: National Committee for Christian Leadership, International Christian Leadership, the National Leadership Council, Fellowship House, the National Fellowship Council.<1>

[Bitwit1234]

9. Oh my Goodness what next

Hillary Clinton is a right wing republican
Hillary Clinton is a too far left
Hlllary Clinton is a lesbian
Hillary Clinton is a femme fa-tale she had numerous affairs

Hillary Clinton bad bad bad

Good Lord Almighty what the hell else are they going to accuse her of. How can one bunch of people be so damn jealous of a WOMAN that the post and spew crap and mess right and left. She is going to win, she is going to be the next president of the United States regardless of what the other candidate's jumping jacks post and spew...the desperation in their constant bashing shows they know their candidate is not up to any thing so they have to bash bash bash....SHE WILL BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT AND I HOPE TO HELL SHE THROWS ALL THIS CRAP RIGHT BACK IN THEIR FACES.

[autorank]

16. Are you keeping a list;)

[Bongo Prophet]

70. You "hope to hell" that she throws crap in people's faces. How pleasant you are!

SHE WILL BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT AND I HOPE TO HELL ....etc etc.
:wtf:

Damn. Are you even old enough to vote?
You are NOT helping your candidate by this barrage of THREATS.
Unless you are not really FOR her, but a caricature of a Hillary supporter.
So hard to tell these days.

If she is the nom, I will vote for her.
I want a Dem in the WH and with a cabinet that will start to fix this Bushian mess.
Not some Karl Rove wet dream of REVENGE on fellow dems, as you state that you want.


I don't think she is Republican, certainly not too far left, don't care WHAT she does sexually.
I think she has good traits and bad traits like all humans.

Maybe you need to take a timeout.
If a thread upsets you so much, just let it slide every once in a while, UNLESS YOU HAVE SOMETHING POSITIVE TO SAY ABOUT YOUR CANDIDATE.
Or to correct a false charge.
So she prays with rightwingers - or are the FACTS here in dispute?

If it was Obama in this article, or another candidate, would you be as upset?

[cali]

10. oh for the love of rationality

I know it's human nature to demonize, but this is so friggin' silly. Use your common sense. If she was heavy into right wing religious crap, would she be a staunch supporter of abortion rights? Isn't that one of the central points on the fundy agenda? She's a politician, and there are lots of valid reasons not to support her, but fear that she's a stealth fundy is just, well, stupid.

[autorank]

12. All I did was post the article. Credible source. Look up some history on these folks.

Christian Ethics Today
http://www.christianethicstoday.com/issue/029/Prayer%20Breakfast%20Politics%20By%20John%20M%20Swomley%20Issue_029_27_.htm

Harper's Magazine
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525

[MonkeyFunk]

13. Nobody's arguing

that they aren't right-wing fundies.

The complaint is trying to imply that Clinton is one, also, because she prays with them. NOthing in Clinton's record indicates she's a right-wing fundamentalist, so your stupid attempt to smear-by-association doesn't play well.

[autorank]

15. Who said she was a right wing fundy?

[MonkeyFunk]

21. the author of post 17

has taken your ridiculous smear-by-association to heart.

It's hard to imagine any other motive you would have for posting this, and playing innocent is just stupid. We know what's up.

[LostinVA]

31. Yup

[autorank]

62. Well, read the article by Sam Smith. He didn't say that & that's what I posted.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20071224/alterman

This story is the problem with Washington. This great article by Eric Alterman on what's wrong with
MSM also applies to inside the beltway politicians. They put up with all sorts of crap, like this
group, because it's all one big club. Where has that gotten us? Melting polar caps, .5 trillion
for Iraq, no end to Iraq because cutting the funding isn't supporting the troops (the vilest of lies).

Somebody ought to ask why she was cozying up with a group that holds this:

"In a June 12, 2003, follow up interview by Anthony Lappé for Guerrilla News Network, Jeffrey Sharlet declares that the group's goal and aspiration are "an 'invisible' world organization led by Christ"; and that in his view, their "core issue is capitalism and power."

SourceWatch
http://tinyurl.com/2znb7g

That might be enough of a hit to avoid these characters.

[cali]

18. I've read the MJ piece and the Harper's piece

The MJ piece- much as I love MJ- was full of innuendo. Hillary Clinton is an ambitious politician. You can fault her if you wish for that, but it's utterly absurd to conclude that she's a right wing fundy. I understand that MJ doesn't want her as the nominee. I don't either, but their article was simply an attempt to harden the left against her.

[Kurovski]

47. So who's to say that her views on abortion won't change

as she joins in religious congress with others?

People can read and decide for themselves. Is that permissible?
Can people just read things and decide whether it's ridiculous or not for themselves?

[autorank]

57. The evidence first, then the preferences.

If I were passionate about HRC, I might react negatively too. But I'm not.

The bottom line is there is way too much footsie between cooks and lobbyists and DC insiders.

I like Charles Rangel a great deal but was just disgusted when I saw him at some Rev. Moon
event on Capitol Hill. Good grief, Moon is beyond any reasonable interpertation.

The Republicans are total creatures of these goofballs.

With polar caps melting, isn't it about time all of THEM get down to business and recognize
what's going on.

:hi:

[cali]

78. her history says that her views on abortion won't change and sure

people can come to their own conclusions. There's no law against stupidity or credulity.

[Kurovski]

79. Nor is there a law against patronizing, insulting, or manipulating other people.

Where would politics be without it?

[democrat2thecore]

11. I'm for Joe Biden....but....

This is a horrible smear against Hillary Clinton.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TahitiNut]

19. Now you've done it. When you put dirty dishes in the sink, ...

... the cockroaches are CERTAIN to congregate. :evilgrin:

[autorank]

26. Imagine Whirled Peas

...it's just an article. I like The Progressive Review, Smith has been around since the civil rights movement, quite a guy. Paper plates!

[cali]

37. yes, of course, because the people that disagree with you are

vermin. And we all know what we should do with vermin, right?

[TahitiNut]

49. Q.E.D.

:evilgrin:

[AlCzervik]

20. at least she's doing it behind closed doors and not wearing it on her sleeve.

isn't that what Jesus wanted?

[Tinksrival]

22. Bill and Hill did a lot of reaching out to the other side.

Didn't get them anywhere. I think their heart was in the right place but they were naive about how crazy and fucked up the right wing was.
Back in '93 the two of them thought they could serve ALL the people. Well dispute being stabbed repeatedly in the back, they kept trying. So I'm not surprised she joined the womens prayer group in Washington. Was she suppose to say no? I'm an atheist and religion just creeps me out, but I can see why she did this. I was fortunate to visit the Clinton Library and I did not know anything really about Hillary as our first lady (because of our wonderful media)but I left there with a strong appreciation for what she did to represent ALL Americans here and around the world!

That being said.......GO Obama! or Hillary, I really don't care. There all great candidates! (Edwards not so much) Oh, and I love Biden!

[Generator]

23. I don't know which is worse

If she's doing this because she believes all they believe or because she wants to be in with the powerful rightwing women. I tend to think she's doing it for a leg in-then she can report back to Mark Penn and they can triangulate over the fundy vote.

[democrat2thecore]

42. No, I don't think so

I read her book "It Takes A Village" and it's pretty clear her liberal Christian faith (she's a Methodist) means a lot to her.

[madfloridian]

25. Grace Nelson: Cells like this are in parliaments all over the world...as long as they submit..

to Christ.

Cells like these, Nelson added, exist in "parliaments all over the world," with all welcome so long as they submit to "the person of Jesus" as the source of their power.

The Fellowship and its Florida connections

How can this group be tax-exempt when they are working to form a theocracy.

On the Fellowship Foundation’s annual Form 990 tax-exempt-organization report to the Internal Revenue Service, under " Relationship of Activities to Accomplishment of Exempt Purposes, " the foundation declares that its aim is " to identify laymen who have an understanding of what it means to work towards a leadership led by God and introduce them to others with similar goals and interests. " Theocracy literally means government by God, and it could be defined as " a leadership led by God. "

[autorank]

29. Thanks for that. Good stuff!

Go get 'em in Florida. You guys will turn FDP around!

[Howardx]

28. traitors

to the constitution

[autorank]

38. Jefferson's Wall of Separation

Jefferson wrote a letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802 to answer a letter from them written in October 1801. A copy of the Danbury letter is available here. The Danbury Baptists were a religious minority in Connecticut, and they complained that in their state, the religious liberties they enjoyed were not seen as immutable rights, but as privileges granted by the legislature - as "favors granted." Jefferson's reply did not address their concerns about problems with state establishment of religion - only of establishment on the national level. The letter contains the phrase "wall of separation between church and state," which led to the short-hand for the Establishment Clause that we use today: "Separation of church and state."

The letter was the subject of intense scrutiny by Jefferson, and he consulted a couple of New England politicians to assure that his words would not offend while still conveying his message: it was not the place of the Congress or the Executive to do anything that might be misconstrued as the establishment of religion.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802.

[Annces]

30. Political positioning maybe

She was rubbing elbows with James Baker.

[autorank]

39. That guy has some sharp elbows! n/t

[Double T]

32. Beware of cultists serving kool-aid.

[autorank]

45. The Elvis look-alike...but these "fellows" play on a global stage...

And there more than one...
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/010937.php

"In raising these questions about Hillary’s judgment and motivation, fairness dictates that her opponents be held to the same standard. John Edwards likewise was a co-chairman of the same Senate prayer group when he was in the Senate, so he also must have known about the Fellowship’s goals and objectives. As for his judgment, Barack Obama singled out far right GOP senator Tom Coburn,☼ a member of Hillary’s Senate prayer group as someone whom he can do business with, notwithstanding Coburn’s documented extreme positions on women and gays. Does Obama’s desire for a new kind of politics with such people, and Edwards’ and Hillary’s association with the Fellowship disqualify them from progressive support? Or is it an unfortunate sign of the times in Washington that our top three candidates associate with and tolerate those like Coburn and the Fellowship, instead of shining a light upon such beliefs?

While they tout their commitment to progressive values, Hillary and Edwards should clarify whether or not they endorse what the Fellowship stands for. And Obama has a duty to tell us why a "new politics" requires the submersion of Coburn's views for the sake of a Liebermanesque bipartisanship.

But there is another question that deserves an answer as well. Why is it acceptable for both the National Prayer Breakfast and the singular Senate prayer group to be sponsored by a group advocating Christian theocracy and elitism?"

[Me.]

33. Good Grief

Can this be true?

[Kurovski]

40. I mistrusted Sen. Clinton even before this.

Her communication style is merely the launching pad for my doubts.

John F. Kennedy didn't care for secret societies, either. And that man had plenty of cause for "paranoia".

[Cha]

43. "Right wing religious power cult"..

I see it as "rabid wing religious hypocrital cult"..they get together cause they know religion is the opiate of the masses and that's the ONLY way they can sell their Bullshit.

Nice play hillary..just gets worse.

[autorank]

85. If there is a second coming...

...the The Money Party would have some 'splin to do.

[Swamp Rat]

46. "Bible study" has little to do with those power brokers and their "Fellowship" meetings.

More like, controlling the human population while raping Mother Earth's resources.

[autorank]

63. "Show me the money!!!"

It's the same old, same old.

:hi:

[mmonk]

51. Not my circle so to speak but I don't see where it matters

unless it affects policy decisions concerning particularly legal areas.

[autorank]

66. Why hang out with these folks, develop a relationship over itme unless

...there's some horse trading. She's not going to change their minds, ever. They take, they don't give.

She's not the only one who goes over there and pretends she's dealing with a religious group. There's a ton of them. And it's not that different than legitimizing Billy Graham who has made perfectly clear just what he's about.

Insider deals, cronyism, nepotism, dealing with goof balls...it's all part of what's wrong with
this country, imho. This isn't HRC, it's DC. They're all just a bit to casual with disaster.

[mmonk]

74. I'm not justifying it. But I won't say it influences her decision

making until I have proof.

[autorank]

76. That's a refreshing attitude.

Watch the news, there will be more on this no doubt.

In another post, I quote an article I found after the OP where Edwards and Obama had attended the regular meetings of this group, with Edwards more involved.

I'm sick and tired of the insider buddy system in DC where they're all pals etc. etc. They hide votes on bills by preliminary votes on cloture etc., e.g., parliamentary tricks. They call bills "The Patriot Act," which in fact shuts down the Constitution (there will be a FISA extension today, can't wait.

I think that the biggest news is Gore getting a rousing reception at the Bali talks and urging the other nations of the world to blow off the U.S. Government meaning Cheney-Bush and make their own deal on climage change. That's a mind blower. People are being shielded by the news on climate change. When they get it, the fur will fly;) and questions will be asked - "Who knew what, when?"

The interesting thing is, I simply posted the article, no comment at all, with the headline as the subject field. Bingo, "Who says Hillary is a fundy?" - I didn't say anything. Things are a bit raw around here;)

Good luck.

[mmonk]

82. I enjoyed the Gore comment as well.

Anyone who knows me knows I'm very critical of fraternization with the anti-democracy movement and I'll always watch what politicians do, not what they say with their double speak. That being said, when I go after them in some political discussion sense, I wait for proof of influence. Thanks for posting.

[autorank]

83. My pleasure...I'm a Gore supporter, in anything he choses to do.

Enjoy

Gore tosses bodycheck at Canada, U.S. with
hockey analogy at UN climate talks

http://tinyurl.com/2dvt6s

[AnnieBW]

53. Weren't they the same ones castigating her?

Brownback and Man-On-Dog were two of the worst offenders of the "Hillary is EEEEVIL" cult. Quite a display of Christian values, there.

[Independent_Liberal]

58. K&R!

[HughMoran]

64. Darn, Hillary is a rignt-wing nut job huh? This is HUGH!!11

Who knew? :shrug:



































:sarcasm:

[western mass]

65. Hillary hearts the American taliban?

I don't care if my candidate prays.

I do care if she associates closely with extremists who want to destroy American democracy by turning it into a theocracy.

This story is old news, but worth repeating.

[cali]

69. Then you're not supporting Obama or Kucinich either, right?

Clinton is not my candidate, but this shit is just absurd. Obama went on the 700 Club and then there's his McClurkin thing. Dennis is good friends with Ron Paul who's a major right wing fundy, and even proposed he be his vp.

[oscarmitre]

73. You people who mix religion and politics

and it doesn't matter what religion you are or where you lean in your politics are scary. I wouldn't give a shit if this forum were about politics in Bhutan but this is the most powerful nation on Earth. Some of you people are downright frightening, Dems or not.

[Beer Snob-50]

75. the difference between hillary and the rest of the christian right

is that she is pretty private about her faith and they jam it down our throats.

[autorank]

77. That's alway appreciated. Although I must say, some of the best mannered

people I've met in my life are the Mormon missionaries. When I lived in NYC, they used to come buy about once a year. I'd ask them to come in for a cup of coffee and then catch myself. Very nice people. Not pushy at all. I think that's why they have such loyal followers. You have to take a step forward. When they came by Saturday, a.m., I was just happy to be standing. I see Mitt as an exception because these 20 somethings were very bright. Maybe Mitt is a plant, "a potted plant."

[Marrah_G]

81. Thank you for posting another "who to ignore" list

It's almost as if you want the RW to win again........

[leftchick]

86. wow!

my response was yanked! :eyes:

Anyway Congrats Again Auto! Great Thread.

:)

[undergroundpanther]

89. Like I have said before..Neo CON!

Hillary and bill too are NEOCONs.

[Arugula Latte]

90. ...

:puke:

[Kurovski]

91. CLEANUP IN AISLE 90!