“Never trust your assailant.” What would you do?

[raccoon]

I’ve been thinking about starting a thread on this on DU for a long time. Now seems like an appropriate moment, after benEzra quoted an article about fighting your assailant in this thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2729622#2733876 .

“1. Never trust your assailant. No matter what they say, no matter how believable they may sound. If they need a ride some place or need you to go into a hallway or a room. No matter what- don't move. The real reason your assailant wants you to move is because he can't do what he needs to do in your present location. Since he can't do what he wants to you in your current location he needs to move you…”
http://www.boxingscene.com/martial-arts/44998.php

The article goes on to advise fighting your assailant, literally fighting for your life.

Would you, if you’re unarmed, fight back against an armed assailant? I hope to God/Goddess/the Universe that I never have to find out, and none of you do either.

I maintain that it’s easy for anyone to be a Monday morning quarterback and say, “I would have fought back, I would’ve kicked him in the balls/put his eyes out/etc.” But you never know until you’re faced with the situation.

The assailant(s) have the element of surprise on their side; you don’t. They have a plan; you don’t.

You might fight him, or you might be so frozen with terror and shock, so taken off guard, that you go along and hope he just robs you.

And if you’re alone and there’s more than one of them, that’s a totally different ball game.

I know this is a scary subject. Every time I get to #6 in the article (6. You will be in the fight of your life), I start giggling—from nervousness.

If anyone has ever been in such a situation, and fought or outsmarted his/her assailant, please share your experience, strength, and hope with us. Who knows, maybe one day it will help somebody.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

1. been there

luckily he wasn't armed, and there were houses nearby to run too. He wasn't expecting me to fight back at all, that's what saved me. I got LUCKY.

[Nay]

7. I have also been there. A guy tried to pull me out of my car in a

parking lot after pretending to ask for directions. I fought back like a maniac, punching, gouging, screaming (unfortunately, no one was around) and he finally let go. I raced away in my car and he followed -- in a panel van.

I have no doubt I would have been raped and killed, and would now be mouldering in a grave in the national forest somewhere. NO, he was never caught.

I have always taught my son to fight and run away, even if (ESPECIALLY if) the perp has a gun. If a guy is trying to abduct you and has a gun, there is no good outcome--you must assume he intends to kill you, and try to get away BEFORE he takes you to a place where he has more control over you, before he ties you up, etc.

I also recommend the book "the gift of fear" recommended below.

[Bunny]

2. I've never been in this situation, thank god.

I can highly recommend the book "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker. He discusses, at length, how most people, women in particular, ignore their inner voice that tells them something is wrong. He tells people how to trust their gut and act accordingly. It's a really fascinating book, and it may help to keep people from finding themselves in situations such as you describe.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780440508830&itm=1

[Pugee]

13. EVERYONE should read that book!

It talks about not brushing away "intuition" Many times it is your subconscious seeing/hearing something that you don't consciously recognize.

[Mnemosyne]

14. When I listened to that voice, I am sure I saved

my life several times when younger, but when I didn't; there were always consequences, some much tougher than others.

Now I never ignore it.

Good post Bunny, thanks. :hi:



PS - Loved that Hoss!

[Bunny]

20. Thanks!

Hoss is THE man, isn't he? :hi:

[AndyTiedye]

21. What If You Haven't Got One?

most people…ignore their inner voice that tells them something is wrong

Not everybody has such an "inner voice".

[Bunny]

22. Read the book if you get a chance.

You may have more of an inner voice than you think.

[AndyTiedye]

39. We Have It Around Somewhere. I Have Been Put Off By the Title

…since for me, fear is in no conceivable sense a gift.

(Adrenaline certainly isn't. What good is all that energy when it leaves me too wired and uncoordinated to do anything useful with it???)

[AndyTiedye]

40. Inner voices may be overrated anyway.

George Bush's "inner voice" keeps telling him to start more wars.
I think we all wish he'd stop listening to that one.

Some people think they have an inner voice, but it's really just Faux News coming in on a bad filling.

[AndyTiedye]

57. Reading It Now. Looks Like Good Advice If You've Got the Wiring to Follow It

1/4 way through so far, not sure if I'll finish it before this thread gets archived.

He goes on and on about intuition and the innate ability to "read" people
and takes it as an article of faith that everybody can do this.
The ability to make eye contact and gain all sorts of useful information therefrom is assumed.
All of this is instinctive in most people, but not everyone.

(This is very well-documented. In all his work with crime victims, hasn't deBecker ever
met anyone with Aspergers Syndrome?)

[enlightenment]

3. All I can do is agree with your fears, raccoon

I was enrolled in my first "self-defense" class in 5th grade -- all the girls were required to take the course. Another in 8th grade, another in 9th, and again my senior year in high school (this was in the late 60s and early 70s when "empowering" women was all the rage). I took additional courses throughout college -- and at least one that I recall in my early 30s.

Yet, the single time that I needed it, shoved up against a car in a dark parking lot, I turned into jelly -- I couldn't even scream, much less fight. Did I remember all that training? Hell, yes - it was looping through my head like I was watching a movie. But reality isn't a movie and just because my head knew what to do didn't mean my body was going to cooperate.

I was lucky that some other people came along and the guy ran off - because I would be a statistic now. Maybe, MAYBE, if it had progressed, that training would have kicked in, but I honestly don't know. I do know that you can't empower anyone without talking about this potential problem (not saying everyone reacts this way), and that seemed to be a failing of the programs that were offered to me -- and to my daughter. Not once did anyone suggest that we wouldn't be able to act on our training; it was presented as a fait accompli. I'm all for positive thinking, but this calls for a healthy dose of reality.

[raccoon]

5. Thanks for sharing that experience.

Luckily those other people came along.

[AndyTiedye]

46. Do the Instructors All Just Assume That Everybody Is Wired The Same?

I do know that you can't empower anyone without talking about this potential problem (not saying everyone reacts this way), and that seemed to be a failing of the programs that were offered to me -- and to my daughter. Not once did anyone suggest that we wouldn't be able to act on our training; it was presented as a fait accompli. I'm all for positive thinking, but this calls for a healthy dose of reality.

To mention that would be bad for business.

Chances are, a very significant portion of the people who do enroll in self-defense classes already know that they react to adrenaline as you and I do.
They enroll in these classes in the hope that this will somehow fix it. You took classes for years and they never even mentioned the issue.
Is it the elephant in the living room?

I have never done any martial arts classes at all, in part because I am afraid I'd hurt someone in the class out of sheer clumsiness,
and also because this issue never gets addressed, and without it the whole thing would be a huge waste of time.

[mcscajun]

4. I agree you will never know what you'll do in any extreme situation.

I also remember reading, years ago from another survival expert, that you never, ever, EVER let your assailant take you to a secondary location. Ever. Accept that you are probably going to get hurt in your escape attempt, but it will be worse, far worse, if you don't escape at all.

[TygrBright]

6. That is true, and it scares hell out of me....

...because I really believe that I am a life-affirming, pacifist, non-violent individual who would rather endure pain myself than inflict it on someone else, no matter how tempting the alternative. That if attacked/assaulted, I would try to reason with them, use wit and intelligence to defuse the situation, yadayadayada.

Yet the one time anything like that happened to me (the guy shoved me, elbowed me, grabbed my purse, and took off,) it was like I had no control at all, no rationality, no intelligence behind my actions. This huge bloom of rage just engulfed me and I screamed at him (not "screamed," like Fay Wray, but screamed AT, as in hurling epithets and promising dire vengeance) and I took off after him with intent to kick, hit, go for the nuts, the eyes, the neck, WHATEVER. I shrieked that I would do things I never knew I even KNEW about, much less would ever contemplate doing to anyone if I had time to think about it. But I swear, if I'd caught the guy, I'd have done them.

Fortunately, he was faster than me.

Fortunately, he was not armed.

Fortunately (because on that adrenaline surge I could have gone for miles at full-tilt and probably done myself a damage just running) he had friends with a van the next block over and they were holding the door open for him and he sailed in and the van took off before I could get to him.

It was only after they drove off that I realized how stupid I'd been, and sat down and put my head between my knees and just shook the rest of that adrenaline out of my system.

So, I worry. If anything like that ever happens again, will I get myself killed?

I hope the hell not.

worriedly,
Bright

[InvisibleTouch]

9. Far better that you had a surge of energizing rage...

...than that you went paralyzed. If he'd been trying to attack you personally rather than just make off with your purse, that might well have saved you. The survivial instinct is a powerful thing - don't knock it.

[AndyTiedye]

34. No "Fight or Flight" For Me

You are more fortunate than I in this respect.

Adrenaline gives me the shakes and totally destroys my coordination (what little I have to begin with).
Far from facilitating "fight or flight", it makes it utterly impossible to do either!

I think this is a lot more common than is generally realized.

[mcscajun]

10. Our reactions are a product of who we are

at the moment, and where we are emotionally at the time of the event.

As the stock market is so fond of saying: "Past Performance is No Guarantee of Future Results." Your reaction next time (IF there is, the Universe forfend, a Next Time) will no doubt be completely different.

A handbag lost isn't a threat to your safety or your life. Give it up, always.

[TygrBright]

12. No kidding!

>>A handbag lost isn't a threat to your safety or your life. Give it up, always.<<

AbsoLUTEly!! Intellectually, I know that. I know that now, I knew it then.

Perhaps what contributed to my crazy response was the fact that I had been pickpocketed, not once, but twice in the prior couple of years. And as anyone who's lost a pocketbook containing ID, credit cards, checkbook, membership cards, library cards, and on and on and on, it is an amazingly long, expensive, and annoying process to do all the stopping payment, closing accounts and opening new ones, replacing cards, paying fees, and so on.

Maybe that had something to do with it. Still scares me, though.

warily,
Bright

[FormerOstrich]

23. Hey, Bright we seem to be very much alike...

Many years ago, as I was getting into my car behind my apartment, I noticed some guy in the dark come around the corner running toward me.

In retrospect, I might have had time to get in the car and lock the door. Instead I just dumbly watched him. He ran up to me, grabbed me, and started pushing me into the car...telling me to get into the car. I would have never predicted my actions.

I started hitting him with my keys. I started screaming at him, calling him very vile things (incidentally the police told me later that's the wrong thing to do because if someone does hear they may assume a domestic fight...the police said a scream (or fire) is better).

He and I fought for what seemed a long time but was probably a few minutes. He would punch me so hard I'd land on my butt. I knew I had to get back up fast and punching. The adrenaline was so strong, I didn't feel any pain. The last time I ended up on my butt, he grabbed my purse. I gabbed the strap. The police measured he drug me 12 feet before the strap broke.

What did I do. I jumped up and ran after him trying to hit him with the strap. He was faster than me and I didn't go far before I suddenly snapped to a little and thought what in the hell are you doing? The guy just pummeled you and your chasing him! I bent over with my head down until I felt a little more normal and went and called the police.

As it turned out, the police found where the guy had apparently been watching me through my kitchen window before I left the apartment. I hadn't heard of other reports but he was a serial rapist and raped 6 women before me and 4 after me before they finally caught him. To their knowledge I was the only one that he attacked without raping. Worse yet, I was the only one that didn't report him brandishing a knife. The police felt that he most likely did have a knife and either a) hadn't pulled it out before I started punching him or b) I just didn't notice (you'd think I would have noticed that!). They also thought he stole the purse to "save face".

Needless, to say I looked horrible. I bruise easy as it is and he hadn't held back. I always wonder what he looked like.

I to this day am shocked at how I reacted. Since then I have had other time when I was threatened (nothing like this) and adrenaline kicked in the same way. Adrenaline is the most powerful drug I have ever experienced (to bad I can't tap into it at will...lol).

[raccoon]

28. Good for you for fighting the a-hole back!

Glad you weren't hurt any worse.

[TygrBright]

32. Yeh, well... they say it's either "fight or flight" when the adrenaline kicks in...

...and i guess we have a pretty good idea which is the likeliest response for us. Under some circumstances, anyways.

I had a stepfather who was an ex-Merchant Marine. He was always very gentle person with us, but his battered face (broken nose) and scars told the story of a very different youth. He took me aside one day shortly after puberty hit and told me that if anyone ever attacked or seriously threatened me, and they DIDN'T have a knife or a gun (he was very emphatic about that,) that I shouldn't try to talk to them, reason with them, or even listen to them. He said "Just make as much noise as you can, and fight as hard as you can. And here's where you go for: The nuts and the neck. Get right on top of them, which will startle hell out of them because they'll be expecting you to try to get away. Get right on top of them and bring your knee up like THIS as fast as you can, and hold your hand like THIS and aim for the throat, short and fast. As a last resort, lean your head back and whack your forehead right into their face as hard as you can. Then run like hell."

I always suspected my stepfather could have told some very interesting stories about his youth in the Merchant Marines but he never did. He told me not to "bother mom" with what we'd discussed, and to "have some common sense for Chrissake" about where I went and when and with whom. And that was my education in taking care of myself. I hope I never have to use it, but now that I look back on it, he was trying his best, bless him. I miss him.

reminiscently,
Bright

[AndyTiedye]

47. You, At Least, Have That to Draw On When You Need It, And Always Will

Enlightenment and I do NOT have anything like that to draw on, and NEVER will.

[BoneDaddy]

8. Been there many times

I have been a martial artist for over 20 years. I have been jumped by a group of people on several situation for nothing other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. What has saved me was acting crazier than they were and not being afraid to strike at their eyes, throat, using my teeth on one occasion (biting one of their fingers) and letting the insane person we all have in us out.

Go animal, throw elbows, knees, scream and let there be no limits to what you are capable of. Claw, bite, bellow. Women are attacked for different reasons than men. Men are physically assaulted, women are attacked to be raped in most occasions. Use any object you can get your hands on.

If someone is trying to hurt you, there is no such thing as a fair fight. I have never started but always finish. I have left more than one person unconscious on the ground and one punk who jumped me with 5 friends, I am not sure whether he lived or died as a result of his injuries. Don't care about them, they attacked you.

Learn about the vulnerable parts of the body and strike and attack there. Don't think that a simple self defense course will allow you to take on a stronger opponent. Try numerous tactics if going animal doesn't work, pretend shock and prepare for one moment where the assailent thinks they have you and then strike as hard as you can and never give up.

[FormerOstrich]

24. When I was growing up...

my Dad (a former Marine Sergeant) use to teach my sister and I some self defense moves and advice. There was one bit of advice that I have thankfully never had to try but sticks with me. His advice: If you are ever threatened by more than one person figure out who the leader is and go after them with all you got. He would stress to not even think about the others just focus completely on the leader.

I hope I never need to find out but I think it's probably really good advice.

[conscious evolution]

26. Very good advice

Always go for the leader or the biggest of your attackers first.It scares the others.
Also something I learned was when outnumbered you actually have an advantage.They have to coordinate their attack so they dont hurt each other.As attackee you can go after anyone of them without worrying about who you hurt.

[BoneDaddy]

27. Great advice

Typically if you can take out the leader, the rest may hold back as they are usually cowards.

[PhilipShore]

37. When I was attacked by a group they all were the same size...

and generally, they were so quick, at getting me into, a passive position -- that I had no time to fight -- or -- figure out who was the leader.

I just remained calm, I am very coordinated and have extraordinary ability to read body language, so when there was a slight subtle movement, in their use of strength around my neck, I would -- then become forceful, but seeming to go into more passive mode (i.e falling to the ground) -- but I was actually forcing myself to go to the ground -- and thus gaining some control over the wolves... the rest of the way I survived in thread below.

[aikoaiko]

11. I'm lucky. I'm a very tall, large scary looking mofo....

...and that has kept me out of harms way many times I believe. I have had to posture to avoid an escalation. But I think BenEzra is correct -- never trust your assailant and fight to the end. If an assailant is going to kill you for resisting, then he/she was probably going to kill you anyway after doing horrible things to you. They may threaten you with harm -- but words are cheap. IMHO.

[PhilipShore]

38. That philosophy does not work in some cases. I was attacked by three...

at one time by their combined weight was 700 pounds more then me. And they had me passive -- before I could even move.

Then on two other occasions by three wolves, again -- I was made passive by a surprise arm around my throat, with another one having a knife. I was in terrible physical shape at the time, but I do and did have and extra ordinary ability to move in a coordinated manner, and I can read body language well. So when the one had his arm around my neck -- he probably thought I was going to die from that -- so after around 30 seconds, I noticed a change in in his force, so I shifted my energy in manner in a subtle way, in which I was becoming more passive -- but in reality I was forcing myself to go to the ground, and I used my force to get them off guard as I went to the ground.

Then the other wolf, started cutting my pants pocket with a knife, while the other was strangling me: at this point I thought I was going to die, then I used more force and in a forceful manner, as if I was helping them to find money reached into the inside of my jacket, but with extreme force moved my arm, and pulled out a Debit card, but that also got them off guard.

Then they said run and we will shoot you, so I remained calm, and did not run, and they left...

[AndyTiedye]

52. Maybe it All Comes Down to Coordination

Adrenaline rather severely impairs coordination.
Perhaps those who have naturally good coordination are not so severly affected by it,
while those of us who are naturally somewhat uncoordinated become hopelessly so when the adrenaline kicks in.

For us, nothing less than a Vulcan-like level of emotional detachment would do.

[Gabi Hayes]

15. is this advice for Iraqis?

[raccoon]

30. And Iranians. :-) nt

[sandnsea]

16. Simply running away

From your article. Funny how we rarely hear this as a solution.

3. Simply running away solves a lot of problems. FBI studies show that would be victims who simply ran from a potentially violent encounter survived; even when the assailant used a fire arm. Rarely were the victims even fired upon. An in the small percentage of victims that were hit, all of the wounds were superficial. Have an evacuation plan.

[TahitiNut]

18. My HTH combat instructor emphasized that the best training for personal defense ...

... was track. :shrug:

[raccoon]

29. HTH ? nt

[Dora]

33. Hand-to-hand. n/t

[benEzra]

42. Agreed.

If you have space to run, and the situation allows it, the Way of the Receding Foot is often the best martial art of all...

Knowing some disengagement moves is also a Very Good Thing, in case you are grabbed, and I am also a firm believer in quality pepper spray.

[AllegroRondo]

59. even with a gun, running away is the best option

with a handgun, it only takes a couple seconds to run beyond the effective range of the weapon. It will take the assailant that long to process whats going on and think "do I really want to take this shot?" Unless you're dealing with a total psycho, you'll be out of range before he can get off a shot.

[The Straight Story]

17. Hell yeah I would fight em, been there in some ways

Not with armed assailants, but with those brought into the jail I worked at (and quite a few on drugs or alcohol).

One of the first rules we were taught was - never, ever, trust an inmate.

If I were faced with an armed idiot I would assess the situation and take it from there, but no way in hell I would trust em - if I think I am going to die I will fight it, at least I have a chance that way.

I worked with violent inmates for a year, and they will say or do anything to get you to trust them or to get to you in some way or other.

That is all not to say you strike out all at once - as I said, you assess the situation, but don't trust em - plan on a form of assault and do what you can.

[uppityperson]

19. Getting hit, getting hurt, while it hurts, is not so bad.

Having been assaulted, I can say that I discovered that fear of getting hit hurt me more than actually getting hit. Yes, it hurts, but is survivable. If you are going to just give up "oh don't hurt me I'll do anything you ask just don't hurt me", well, you will probably get hurt even worse. Having been punched in the face and kicked in the ribs, I must say that those things hurt. But I healed. So, it is ok to run, ok to fight, ok to make an embarrassing scene if you can. Being hit is not the end of the world. Being embarrassed isn't either. Being dead is. Don't be afraid of getting hurt. Get mad and do what you need to do.

[PBass]

25. Never had too many problems but there is good advice on the net...

First is to try to get away. If someone approaches you as you walk, keep walking, say something like "I have to drop this off with my friend over there" and try to give them the brush-off (don't lose sight of them by turning your back completely, but do keep moving). Say "I'll be right back in a second, I just gotta talk to that guy" or whatever you think will work. Just try to get away from the person.

Second, look around to make sure you're not about to get double-teamed or ganged-up on.

Third, if you are in a potential confrontation that could possibly be violent (but it's uncertain yet), keep your hands up as you talk (gesturing, rubbing your chin, talking with your hands). This lowers the risk of a sucker punch (catching you off-guard), and creates a little bit of a zone around you. You know if the other person infringes into this zone, it's a fight. You don't want to be caught with your hands down. So use empty hands (not fists) and "talk italian" with gestures and so on but do it in a non-threatening neutral looking way. Gesticulate, with your hands around chest level. You might even practice this a bit, talking and gesturing, just so it won't be the first time you've tried it during an actual crisis.

And if you have to fight, fight dirty and with intensity. Stun them with the force of your response. Assailants don't expect a fight, usually, and if they do, they definitely don't expect to get hurt or to lose. If you can hurt them, it can be so surprising to them that it gives you a chance to run. One thing to consider... you can't carry a weapon, and in many states you can't carry mace (if you can, think about mace maybe. I don't know enough about it, something to research maybe). But one thing you can carry legally is a ballpoint pen, and that can be a very good weapon, plus who doesn't wish they had a pen handy? You're going to need it even if you don't get jumped.

Then if there is an altercation and you have a chance to run, do run when you get the chance. It's not like a boxing match where you each take turns and there are rules. Don't take time to pause. Blunt trauma is your goal, not executing complicated techniques. Do basic strikes that are simple and direct and don't overthink it, just act. Strike as many times as you can, and as rapidly and fiercly as possible, and aim for the sensitive parts, we all know where a pen or your keys or a regular punch would hurt a lot. Then if there is a chance to run, then run. Don't stand around waiting to see if he's mad yet. Do your worst, and then escape.

Good info here:
http://www.urbancombatives.com/

and look up Self Defense on YouTube. You can often tell right away which videos are worth watching (high viewer ratings, more than 45 seconds long, and so on)

[sweetheart]

31. its really true indeed

if 'assailant' is the bush republicans, the article is very wise.

[BluePatriot]

35. Some more tips.

Stomach. Actually, jab the bellybutton with your fingers if you can. (Ow.) Back of the knee. Etc. Weak points.

If the person is trying to strangle you, their armpits are exposed as their hands are around your neck...they will expect you to claw at their hands to get them off your neck and your instinct may be to do this, but, instead, jab them under their exposed armpits with your thumbs or fists very forcefully, they WILL let go of you even if they are huge and strong as this tactic is quite painful and unexpected. While they are reeling back from that, take the opportunity to RUN.

Hadn't seen the armpit thing on the thread so thought I'd jump in.

[AndyTiedye]

56. Some People Get Sexually Aroused When Hit in the Stomach

might not be the kind of response you are looking for.

[BluePatriot]

58. *shrug*

All I know is that when I've been jabbed in the stomach, I doubled over in pain. I guess YMMV but a punch to the gut really, really hurts.

[AndyTiedye]

60. That Should Give You an Idea How High a Pain Threshold Some People Have

All I know is that when I've been jabbed in the stomach, I doubled over in pain.

I stood there and smiled a lot. Whoever hit me usually wandered off muttering :wtf:

I guess YMMV but a punch to the gut really, really hurts.

That depends on how much abdominal muscle you are having to punch through.
You might just be giving the punchee a nice deep massage.

[PhilipShore]

36. I have been in that situation -- attacked by groups that were intent on killing me

Three times I was attacked by a a pack of wolves of three. They strike at night, when no one is around, the common factor of the three different attacks, is the group similarity, which had one group all over 6'5 250 pounds, all white , whom look liked John Boy of the Walton's but with Tattoos.

The second and third groups, where packs of a primary race other then white, they too looked like John Boy Walton's.

As a pacifist this was a unique experience to me, I did not fight back, but then again I did not make it easy for them: I did not make it seem like I was fighting back-- but in my retreat, I was putting myself in defensive position.

For example in my retreat, while they were strangling me, I was resisting, but with a subtle force so as to get them off guard, then I would go back to being passive: in their demand for money; I would reach in my pocket, in my jacket (Where they were not even looking) while seeming to do them a favor but in a subtle way move my arm in forceful manner -- again getting them off guard, as they were with a knife cutting away at my pants pockets.


I have extraordinary coordination ability, I am happy to be alive -- they no doubt were very intent on murdering me, I came out of it with a few bumps and bruises, but I survived.

I actually laughed after to myself after the knife attack because, when I got home: I reached in my coat pocket-- and found a $20 bill, I had actually psyched them out, they did not kill me or even get the money they wanted.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

41. Acting crazy has saved me

Years ago, when I was a secretary, a policewoman made a presentation to us at the company's request. (Because they worked us so late that we would end up going home at 10pm, and they paid us so little we had no money for cabs. :eyes:) She gave us tips on fighting off assailants but I have never used them because her advice on preventing an assault was so useful.

1. LOOK ALERT. Walk with a purpose. Don't amble along. Lift your head and stride as forcefully as you can, even if you are exhausted. Act aware of your surroundings. Put away the headphones and the cell phone and the book you were reading on the train. Look around you. When you pass people, look them in the face. Let them know you see them and make them feel like you will remember their faces. If you get a bad feeling from someone approaching, cross the street or even walk IN the street. Seek out the light.

2. ACT CRAZY. Criminals don't want to mess with crazy people. Talk to yourself, loud. Argue with yourself. Start singing. Walk weirdly and swing your arms around. My patented move when someone creepy got too close: stopping in my tracks, then pacing back and forth while alternately mumbling and shouting stuff like "well I told him I told him yeah cuz WHAT the FUCK! he fuck with me I said FUCK YOU! cuz he's like in a BALLOON, I ain't got any TOAST FOR YOU!" Then walk a ways more and repeat till I felt safe again.

You may never know if you actually warded off an attack or just scared the bejesus out of some latenight worker like yourself. But it's all good. :D

[raccoon]

44. ACT CRAZY--That is a great idea!

"alternately mumbling and shouting stuff like "well I told him I told him yeah cuz WHAT the FUCK! he fuck with me I said FUCK YOU! cuz he's like in a BALLOON, I ain't got any TOAST FOR YOU!" Then walk a ways more and repeat till I felt safe again. "

I'm gonna have to practice that! :-)

[AndyTiedye]

61. Now That You Mention It, I Never Had Any Trouble After I Started Letting My FREAK FLAG FLY

It was only when I tried to blend in and all that.

[noonwitch]

51. Singing in public is good for convincing people you are crazy

When I lived in the hood in Detroit, if I had to walk my dog late at night or walk up to the store to get something, I'd sing to myself. If anyone else walked by, I'd sing louder. Good songs for this technique: "Reason To Believe" ("Saw a man standing, o'er a dead dog lyin in a ditch, he's looking kinda puzzled, poking that dog with a stick....") by Bruce Springsteen, any John Denver or Doors song, or (if you are female), change her to him in GNR's "I Used To Love Her, But I Had To Kill Her". The latter is good to use when carrying a baseball bat or wearing a knife clipped to your belt.

During the day, in Detroit, I've always looked people in the eye and said "Hello". That way, you are letting them know you see them and being polite. Crazy people get pissed off if you don't acknowlege their presence, and dangerous people think you don't see them.


I had to walk up around the corner to pick up my car from the shop one time. As I had to pay for the repair in cash, I had a purse with about $500 in it. As I was walking past the alley behind a church, this skinny, almost toothless junkie came out of the alley and told me to give him my purse. I laughed at him, and he pulled his arm back and clenched his first like he was going to punch me. I said quietly "If you move that arm one more inch, you are going to be picking up the few teeth you have left off of the pavement". At that point, the arab guys from the gas station across the street saw what was going on and ran out yelling at the junkie in arabic, and he ran off scared.

I'm not a particularly tough-looking person, but I am tall. I was astounded that this guy even thought his skinny little junkie ass could take me without a weapon. I had the reputation in the neighborhood of being that crazy white girl with the wild-looking dog who sang to herself and carried a baseball bat sometimes.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

53. Excellent techniques

With the rise in cellphone headsets, it's no longer unusual to see people gesturing and talking as they walk down the street alone. In fact it took me quite awhile to get used to the sight myself. But singing remains the kind of activity one usually indulges in private.

Before I moved to Chicago I took the train in every day, walking through the Loop with countless other commuters. And I would sing as I walked because I was so happy to be on my own in the big city.

I swear, the sound of someone singing always made the waves of commuters part like the Red Sea. At first I was embarrassed, but then I started working it. I never got jostled by crowds or had my heels trod on. I favored Zappa ("Let's Make the Water Turn Black"), Kinks, Carole King and Joni Mitchell, among others; I also liked to sing the Doors' cover of "The Alabama Song." Latin songs I had learned in choir also worked like magic.

Thanks for the memories - yours, and mine. :thumbsup:

[benEzra]

43. Thoughts...

As others have mentioned, being in good physical shape is a Good Thing, regardless of other considerations.

Martial arts can also be helpful, but a setting that actually allows you to practice that defense in an unscripted format is more helpful in ingraining those responses into your muscle memory. If the art is too abstract or too cerebral, you won't ingrain it very deeply and may freeze up. And of course, if you have to fight, fight like crazy.

I am also a firm believer in a quality pepper spray (law enforcement grade, not cheap discount store variety). Fox Labs is IMHO the best on the market. If you get one, also get an inert practice spray. The only downside is that if they are used in a confined space, you will affect yourself as well as your attacker. Get one that you can carry in your pocket and discreetly have your hand on it if you get bad vibes about a situation.


http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/sprays.htm

But I think the most important tool in the toolbox has got to be situational awareness, though. Pay attention to what's going on around you, look for people correlating their movements to yours, and listen to your instincts when they tell you "something isn't right, turn around and go back into the store" instead of pooh-poohing them.

[raccoon]

48. Has anyone here ever deterred an attacker with one of those

screaming gizmos? A personal protection device you carry around and when you activate it it makes a horrible screaming sound?

At least that would draw attention if there were other people around.

[AndyTiedye]

49. Attacker Grabs Noisemaker Gizmo, Stomps on Noismaker Gizmo with Foot, All Quiet Now

[raccoon]

50. Good point, Andy. nt

[William Bloode]

45. Always fight back, as best you can.

Predators look for the weak. Just like in the wild. They want the easy way out, then do not want someone to resist. Just like in prison, those who are targeted are those who are seen as too weak to fight back. Those who are perceived as fighters, even small people have few problems.

Theres also many things you can do in a passive manner to help you out. Like being in well lit areas, look confident, keep all valuables close to you, take note of places where an ambush can happen(dark alleys, blind spots, poorly lit areas).

[REP]

54. I Have Always Fought - And Won

I have been the target of several attempted muggings and one attempted kidnap/rape. In each case, I fought like hell, to the point of breaking my assailant's arm and shattering his cheekbone during the last attempted mugging. I am not particularly imposing; probably why I was selected; I'm 5'3" and a chick, but I know a few things about fighting thanks to having grown up with a brother just a year younger than me.

By winning, I mean that I kept my belongings and money, wasn't injured (other than a fairly serious bruise from jumping out of a speeding car during the attempted kidnap/rape) and wasn't raped.

[ForrestGump]

55. Yes, fight hard nd make lots of noise immediately when it's apparent he (or she) is a real threat

You may not get another chance, especially if the attacker removes you to another location. And the shock of a 'victim' fighting back is as disorienting to a human attacker as is the same behavior in other predators' prey. Aim to kill the SOB -- you're not likely to, but you've got to break through that natural reticence most of us have, that reluctance to inflict pain or injury. Assume he or she is trying to kill you, and respond accordingly.

Running is, indeed, the best form of self-preservation, but sometimes it is not possible or optimal.

Traditional self-defense courses are not only not helpful but can be very harmful. Nontraditional approaches can be good -- Model Mugging is one I've liked the idea of since its inception back in the '80s. Martial arts are great, to say the very least, but to use them in self defense takes years of practice, lots of sparring, and a teacher and system that stresses realism (Tae Kwon Do, for example, will give you an edge if you're good enough at it but is, more now than ever, very tournament-oriented to the point that it is largely a sport, limited in technique and approach, and may be worse than useless in a real fight).

I've written a fair bit about this in previous threads that are worth checking out for many people's good advice:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=79623#81656

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=5611750#5614359

Be safe...