FLDS, The American Taliban

[K8-EEE]

I'm reading this book called "Escape" by Carolyn Jessop -- it's a total pageturner! She was born into the Warren Jeffs cult (pre-WJ but escaped when he became in charge.) The Prophet "revealed" that she was to be married, as a teenager, to a 50 y/o creepy guy with four other wives.

If she was perfectly obedient God would "bless" her with continual pregnancies.

Her story of life in a fundie LDS "plural marriage" is so horrific, unbelievable. As a young girl she found herself a virtual slave to the most dominant wife who resented the younger, prettier wives and had them do all the grunt work (with 28 children in the house that's A LOT OF WORK!) At night she was a sex slave to the husband - and yes the sex happened with the underwear on!

Her story of middle of the night escape as a 35 year old with only one outside contact (an excommunicated brother) and 8 children is thrilling, but what about all the women left behind?

And with Mitt's "Mormon" speech on the horizon question to the mainstream LDS - why don't they do some kind of outreach to help these women. "We don't do polygamy anymore" doesn't help them. Don't they feel any kind of responsibility since these compounds are living according to LDS prophets' (Joseph Smith, Brigham Young)instruction and example?

[Mythsaje]

1. You know...that's a good question.

Maybe it's because the "we don't do polygamy anymore" comes with a nod and a wink?

[K8-EEE]

6. Get this....

In the book she tells a story of a hellish "family Honeymoon trip" they took, they had to rent a greyhound bus to do it. They inadvertently left one of the 28 kids at a rest stop.

He told them the father's name and that his family was going on a trip in a bus. They asked what the occasion was and he said "to celebrate my father's two new wives." The new wives had been married to a 90 y/o "prophet" who had just died and were bartered out to the more well-to-do FLDS guys, since they had been "sealed" to the dead prophet they were considered status symbols.

The police were able to track down the license # of the bus and put out a call and the bus was pulled over. Arrangements were made to backtrack and pick up the missing kid, who they still had not even missed in all the chaos. And no problems, no questions,no investigations, nothing.

The fact is that mainstream LDS dominate the State & Local police force in Utah & rural AZ, they are complicit with this. Even Warren Jeffs, it was the Feds that got him.

[Hamlette]

2. there is outreach

but these are closed communities, difficult to let them know where to go for help

[K8-EEE]

5. But they are using public schools, the public welfare system

Both illegally and fraudulently.

For instance each "sister wife" is reported simply as a single mother and gets welfare benefits which get handed over (like all money) to the husband.

Also the PUBLIC SCHOOL she went to in Colorado City functioned as an FLDS madrassa. This was simple as only FLDS lived in these dirt road communities, no one else was welcome. The FLDS principal (who frequently beat children as an example) only hired "righteous" FLDS teachers.

A small percentage of women were allowed college educations (after marriage) but the only job they were allowed was teaching, and they had to hand the $$ over to the husband. But they taught FLDS based programs (including dinosaurs never existed, etc) at PUBLIC SCHOOL! How is it possible to not bust them over these things? IMO, if they are in regular LDS country, they know they will be left alone.

[Hamlette]

7. they are not using public schools or welfare fraudulently

no one gets welfare in the US unless she identifies the father then we go after him for child support.

It's the law and if we don't follow it we lose our federal funding. Since it is about 99% federally funded, it simply does not happen. Period.

It is not illegal or fraudulent to "use" public schools if you are the child of a polygamist.

If the mother gets welfare, the fact that she hands it over to her husband is not something we really want to get into. If you want to deny the mother in a polygamous relationship because she hands the money over to the dad, you'll have to do it for everyone.

[K8-EEE]

8. No you misunderstand me

What I mean is that FLDS Prinipals hire FLDS teachers and since only FLDS families are in the community, they run a type of LDS madrassa, complete with routine, public beatings and Church-driven curriculum (such as, dinosaurs never existed) with half the day spent with religious doctrine. This is what the author of the book I mentioned says was her experience as a student in these schools.

The other thing is that FLDS admit they are heavily subsidized by WIC, food stamp, federal loans etc. that are meant for impoverished areas. They claim it is prejudice against their "way of life" and "religion" that forces them to live in remote ghetto-like conditions. Their religion forbids the wives making decisions about money and spending so benefits claimed by women are turned over to the husbands.

The place this book took place, the fed numbers say something like 61% live under the poverty level. Among themselves they think the US government is Satan driven and call getting fraudulent benefits by whatever means "bleeding the beast."

[Hamlette]

9. I know about the area

and I know they "bleed the beast" (do everything they can to get government money.) I'm not defending them. I'm legal counsel to the agency that pays welfare in Utah. (When you talk about federal numbers, we're the ones who calculate that number.) I've been there, I've been on task forces with Arizona folks to address the many problems we have. From my agency's perspective, we're interested in helping the kids.

I guess I should read the book. She might not know what she's talking about :) (They live in ghetto-like conditions because they do not complete construction on their homes. If the home is not completed, no property taxes even though it is occupied.)

[K8-EEE]

10. The book is really GOOD!

You should def get it if you've been there -- as for helping the kids, how to help them when they're so brainwashed? She describes leaving (she secretly left the religion two years before having an opportunity to escape) and her 11 y/o daughter is screaming and hitting her in the car because she is "stealing them from the prophet" and "taking them to hell."

Just so sad!

[MissB]

3. There is a book by Jon Krakauer called

Under the Banner of Heaven . You should check it out next and read it.

He seems to suggest that there isn't that much of a separation between the LDS and FLDS. He goes into their history quite thoroughly.

[K8-EEE]

4. Yes I did read that one!

I have to admit I find all LDS stuff both creepy and fascinating.

One thing I thought was interesting is that the author suggested that the self-styled fundie LDS lunatic who kidnapped Elizabeth Smart, he would have never been able to pull that off except with a Mormon girl. He clicked into Mormon stuff and it was a short putt for her to sympathize with his "call from God." In other words she was already half-brainwashed and the regular LDS has a more subtle patriarchal culture, but it's still there.