If that son of a bitch can't be impeached now then this country isn't worth shit.

[ThomWV]

For Christ's sakes, the man is insane and wishes to bring war to the world. He can not tell the truth, he does not care who or how many die. He must be removed from office immediately. What kind of people are we if we can not remove this cancer from our nation and the world?

[Perry Logan]

1. When they steal your vote they have made you a slave. America is in a state of civil war.

[zabet]

30. That along with the

murder of the middle class,
makes it a Class War.

[Michael101]

86. Dennis Kucinich is the only democrat with guts...

All the other candidates are full of hot air. They know what we want to hear and feed us lies.

Vote for a candidate that is not afraid to do the right thing.

remember to donate a bit of money to: put peace in the white house december 15. IT IS A GRASSROOT ORGANIZATION THAT IS TRYING TO RAISE MONEY FOR DENNIS KUCINICH BY DEC. 15

Every little bit counts:$5,$10,$15...

[DemBones DemBones]

93. Amen, brother, amen.

Give Peace a Chance NOW!

[whistle]

97. Yes I heard him on NPR coming home tonight and he was brilliant

...but the commentators from NPR just won't give him air time he deserves

[whistle]

96. I think you are correct Perry and the country is in denial about it

[Just-plain-Kathy]

130. They steal your vote and think $7.50 an hour is a fair living wage.

Slavery is alive and well in America.

It seems that Prescott Bush's attempted coup to take over our government and hand it over to corporate moguls to rule has become a reality.

[flashl]

2. IF we are indeed a republic ruled by laws, whats the prob? nt

[mmonk]

5. That's what I've been wondering.

I guess the ruled by laws part must be subjective by some elected officials.

[flashl]

6. Its suggests to me WE do not realize WE hold the power not some proxy. nt

[OneGrassRoot]

3. Agreed. Absolute power corrupts absolutely...

my concern isn't only with holding the criminals running our nation accountable (realizing "they" have been planning this for decades), but to ensure no one dares conspire against our Constitution again.

I'm tellin' ya, We the People must WAKE UP NOW!!!

[Blue Fire]

58. Absolutely!!!

Far too many people in this once great country have become comfortably numb with the status quo, as long as gas is available for their SUVs, the larder is filled, they remain hopelessly ignorant of the true meaning if the Iraq war, foolishly believing dumya really is keeping them safe from terror (remember during the Ray-gun years the trick word was 'communism'?), and the new big screen HDTV is standing by to keep those brain cells at low idle. The malicious intent of the dumya regime remains merely a delusion of those damned pesky liberals, and his crimes against this nation, the world and humanity remain unpunished.

[Xipe Totec]

4. It's not the country, it's the leadership

We have way too many leading zeroes in our numbers.

We need to correct that.

First at the primaries, then in the general election.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

109. I wonder if it is the people?

many people are busy Christmas shopping to worry about impeachment. This topic is far from the the public's mind!

[Xipe Totec]

143. Dunno. Let me check in the mirror

nope. not me.

I asked Santa for impeachment for Christmas.

[GOTV]

150. It's true, the people are not demanding removal....

... and so impeachment will not happen.

[Greyhound]

119. The people define the leadership.

We've become nothing but sheep in every sense of the word. American citizens would never have tolerated the endless string of outrages perpetrated over the last quarter century.

[MissDeeds]

129. Agree completely n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. Recommended!

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lonestarnot]

11. A fucking train wreck is better than a warmongering freak.

[ThomWV]

12. That is a silly thing to say. This is a case of crimes against the Constitution and humanity

This has nothing at all to do with a witchhunt. If you can not tell the difference you have a lot to learn.

[mwb970]

13. What a strange post. Are you all right?

The wingnuts badgered Clinton forever over nothing, finally impeaching him over nothing. They stole elections to force a fellow wingnut into office where he became the worst president in our history. Evidence accumulates (in torrents, lately) that the man is a criminal and a liar, not about sex but about the Constitution, about America's actions in the world, about war and peace, about life and death.

Confronted with this history you say we should make no effort to impeach bush. You think it's "insane" to think that the Constitutional provisions on impeachment apply to the crimes of the bush administration. Only "ivory tower idiots" would call on the Congress to do their duty.

I don't get it. What is wrong with you? And who is the "idiot"?

[flashl]

17. What part of this you are NOT understanding?

"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established, should not be changed for light and transient causes; and, accordingly, all experience shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."

"Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God."

— two quotes from Thomas Jefferson

[driver8]

27. It sounds like you are the one living in outer space.

We have an administration that has no respect for the people or the laws of our country -- they must be held accountable.

[Horse with no Name]

32. You are so amusing

what a "strange" point of view.

[rjones2818]

9. Look at the candidates and decide

which one you would rather have. One who stands up for the Constitution and the people of the country, wind be damned, or one who's going to wait.

Go Dennis!
http://dennis4president.com
Choose Peace!

[Diamond Dave]

10. AHhhhhhMen - amen, yes, preach it brother! n/t

The whole world is watching, waiting and standing by stupified by the total lack of involvement "we the people" of this shining beacon of peace and democracy bring to bear on this world.

Who's playing who this weekend anyway? And have you shopped till you dropped yet or maxed out your cards for Christmas yet?

Damn and yes, for Christ's sakes. We are an embarrassment to the world. The world is waiting for us, and all we can do is go shopping, our leader told us to.

[Hubert Flottz]

14. Justice is off the table!

Because there is just too many goodies UNDER the table!

[quiethm75]

66. You said it. nt

[Lint Head]

15. We are a people under a theocratic fascist state.

This theocratic fascist state is being promoted by the advances in weapons and surveillance technology. Law enforcement exists to keep the descent and people under control not to protect or serve anyone. :dem:

[tekisui]

19. We live under a Corporate Fascist State, that take the guise of god.

[MADem]

16. He's caged. Impeachment would only replace one asshole with another at this point.

Hand him the crutches, he is a lame duck.

[Horse with no Name]

34. yet his finger is still on the button

If you do not believe that this "lame duck" could STILL start a war on another sovereign country with the toadies he has installed in every branch of our government, then it is a pity.
Bush does NOT come close to meeting the criteria for a lame duck status.
He still has a Congress that bends to his wishes.
He still has a media that enables him.
He is still a very dangerous man.
He needs to be impeached.

[MADem]

39. I have a feeling that his latest pick for CJCS wasn't made by him or Dick either.

I think the same guy picked him as picked SECDEF--his 'deddy.'

The new CJCS isn't gonna let this idiot start a war. Unless he's changed enormously in the past few years, and I don't think he has.

The worst IS over.

His impeachment is unlikely in the extreme at this stage of the game.

[southerncrone]

84. No such thing as a lame duck now. Not with the Pat Act & his various

signing statements that have undermined the Constitution. Martial Law can suspend us in this nightmare indefinitely. :hide:
That is why IMPEACHMENT is NECESSARY & please do it QUICKLY!!:grr:

[Echo In Light]

18. Chomsky is correct: FAILED STATE

...and God help us if you actually {still} believe that "voting" alone will change anything.

[raccoon]

21. Can you give us a link?

"Chomsky is correct: FAILED STATE"

[flashl]

22. Review of Chomsky's Failed States

Review of Chomsky's Failed States-'Success is not an option:To the Rogue Tyrants Belong the Spoils'

Noam Chomsky recently penned Failed States: The Abuse of Power and the Assault on Democracy, a book in which he provided a powerfully-constructed and heavily documented argument that the United States is a failed state, like many of the nations it has declared to be threats to itself and its allies.

As Chomsky suggested, the Bush Regime and its multiple components (including corporate interests, many of America’s wealthy, certain radical segments of the Christian population, AIPAC and its supporters, and those amongst the middle and working class still beguiled by the corporate media) have been quick to label other nations as failed states to achieve their imperialist goals.

Iraq was a failed state and a threat to the United States. Hence the invasion and occupation. Haiti was a failed state and its people were suffering. Enter United States intervention and subsequent Haitian misery.

According to Chomsky, there are three essential components to a failed state:

1. their inability or unwillingness to protect their citizens from violence and perhaps even destruction.

2. their tendency to regard themselves as beyond the reach of domestic or international law, and hence free to carry out aggression and violence.

3. And if they have democratic forms, they suffer from a serious “democratic deficit” that deprives their formal democratic institutions of real substance.

Read More ...

[Philosoraptor]

20. My sentiments precisely.

Been saying it for seven horrible years.

[Gregorian]

23. If it's not important enough to talk about in the grocery store...

Then it's not important enough to talk about in Congress.

Don't overestimate the American people. They are sleeping. They have been since the invention of the car.

My observation is, people are trying to make their property tax payments. Their monthly bills. Their holiday plans and gifts. I watched some well off, typical American goon, lady spending an hour on a bike for her darling. It was really disgusting. I'm still sitting here wanting to punch something. When I was five, I was given one dollar and told to go down the street and buy the bike the neighbor was selling. Nobody was there to teach me how to ride. There were no training wheels. No helmets. No sizing. This nice, but idiotic in a typical American suburban way, lady, was agonizing over whether this kid would like the pattern on the seat. The bike was made in China. And then there are the sick. People are living their lives. Government is supposed to work. People take it for granted.

There is one man in our town who occasionally hits the streets with an impeach Cheney sign.

Other than that, all but our poorest citizens are comfortable beyond caring.

The fact that bush ever made it out of the starting gate is testament to how pathetic this group of people in this country are. I saw it. You saw it. But we're in the extreme minority. No doubt.

People are stupid. I am. I have eyes. I have a bs detector that can smell far better than most. But I go around and around with some things. For example, I cannot figure out why people don't see why Bush is impeachable. And why they aren't in the streets screaming. And why they don't care about global warming enough to actually sacrifice.

America is no longer about the people. It's on autopilot. Whomever has the most money gets to fly it.

[307 MMS]

26. Amen, brutha

Autopilot it is. Don't bother me with shit that I have to think about. Education was compromised starting with Reagan, so I can't think with any certitude. Ah, this'll all just go away, anyway...right!?

[Annces]

35. I think you are right n/t

[Gregorian]

37. I'm sorry I am so negative about things, though.

I'm a very simple person. I don't fuss about things that don't deserve it. I shouldn't be angry at an entire segment of American society. And it doesn't go over well in public. But I'm being honest. I'm really sick of the whiny people. But I will admit that maybe it's normal, and I'm just an angry person.

Hey, at least I'm fairly honest and open. I just wanted to explain, since I couldn't edit my post.

And thanks. I like it when people agree. It seems to only happen on this forum. :)

And now I'm going to go off and perform the milestone of placing the mailbox on my new property. YAY!

[Annces]

41. I just enjoyed reading your opinion

I think we can only really change what we give our focused effort to. We can choose what we do every day, (at least partially). If people want to be materialistic, you cannot stop them.

[southerncrone]

83. So you finally got your property, Gregorian?!?!?!!?

[Gregorian]

100. Yes!

It's almost everything I wanted. Trees. And even an ocean view. One of the last diamonds on the northern California coast.

I'm moving out of my rental and into an rv in a week or two. It's strange how life works. All I can say is sometimes patience pays off.

Oh yeah, it's just bare land. An rv and a bank of batteries and a generator. I love a bit of adventure.

[southerncrone]

107. Patience is a blessing & one of our strongest virtues.

I should know, I've been working on it my entire life! LOL There's no question in my mind that it's my life lesson this time around. And a very hard lesson!

Sounds like a jewel...ocean view...I'm jealous!
Seriously, I'm so glad it finally worked out. I know you got so upset & down about it. As someone famous (I don't know who it was) said, "Anything worth having is worth waiting for."

And there is NO bare land--it's all full of life & possibilities. Just use your imagination!
Enjoy!:hippie: :toast:

[Gregorian]

116. Thanks!

Over the last fifteen years I was so scared I just bought what I could find. My dad kept saying I should find a place where I want to live, and then find the place. But I had so many criteria, it would be impossible to satisfy. And the inventory was dwindling fast. I'd buy a place, and find out it sucked for one reason or another. Actually there is no perfect place. This one also has some negatives. But it has almost everything I ever wanted.

I found it when I decided there was one place I'd like to be in order to have access to my bike ride. This whole thing revolved around bicycling. But there was absolutely nothing available. One thing led to another, and I found a property that wasn't on the market, and the owner was in debt. But I sat for a year before coming to the right decision. And it's so weird that here I am only five miles away. In the past I had this monster move to make. I've got something like 100,000 pounds of stuff to move. I'm not kidding. A machine shop, a crane, a backhoe, two trucks, a car, motorcycles... And moving was a killer.

Anyways, like I need to blab about it. I think the one other thing I'm trying to learn is compromise. I was looking for the ultimate paradise. It doesn't really exist. And if it does, this is about as close as it gets. And then there's life. I really was getting worn out just trying to find a place to call home. God, I could go on and on with this subject. But it's all pretty boring stuff. Times are difficult. It's hard to find a nice place to call home.

Here's what I'm going to build. I did it once before. It's one third house, two thirds garage.

[magellan]

70. Bullshit

Sorry, Gregorian, I understand your frustration with our fellow Americans completely. But to say that if the people aren't talking about it in the grocery store then Congress won't either is an indictment OF CONGRESS. We don't talk about free trade deals with Peru either, but Congress talked about and even PASSED that legislation!!

They don't have the votes so impeachment is off the table, what a load of crap. Maybe our police should stop arresting suspects unless they're 100% certain there will be a conviction!?

[Gregorian]

99. Actually, I agree.

I'm glad someone picked up on it. Because after posting that, I realized it had a component of bull to it.

We're all full of it sometimes.

But the point I was making is still somewhat valid. I see the potential driving force for impeachment from the people. We put pressure on Congress. It IS an indictment of Congress. And the bs comes in to the picture because I do not know why they haven't impeached already. Enough votes is a valid excuse. But that doesn't cut it with me, at least. Damn, I thought this would be a more binary kind of thing. I honestly don't have a good answer. Maybe it's a combination of us AND Congress.

I'm all ears.

[magellan]

125. Well, I know justice isn't meted out in this country by the mob

We don't decide who to charge and who not to according to public pressure. Well, okay, "Law & Order" says that happens sometimes, and it probably does. But generally, that's not how it works, nor is it how it's supposed to work.

Apparently that isn't so in Congress. Some here have made the distinction that impeachment is a political tool, offering this as a reason why they aren't duty-bound to impeach. What does that mean? That Congress can ignore crimes against the Constitution if it's politically expedient for them to do so? I don't understand that argument and never will. They each took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution. There are no conditions like "unless you think it's too risky to your next election, or will take up too much time" attached to that oath.

On the other side we have the Center for Constitutional Rights, the National Lawyers Guild, the American Bar Association, various city and town councils, respected constitutional lawyers and scholars, and even the Democratic Party of Wisconsin who all formally support impeachment of Bush** and Cheney. This growing list should give us pause. If these groups, many of them made up of legal experts who believe any number of laws have been broken, are advocating for impeachment, why aren't the Dems listening? Does it really come down to "we don't have the votes"? Because I'd suggest they aren't familiar with the impeachment process if so.

Americans weren't behind impeaching Nixon when that process started. Neither were Repubs in Congress, for obvious reasons. But as things progressed, and the crimes of Watergate unfolded, who was it that finally went and had a little talk with Nixon, telling him to resign before he was impeached? Repubs.

I don't have any answers either, wish I did. But I'm certain about a few things regarding the Dems and their refusal to do their job here, and none of it reflects well on them IMO.

Peace, Gregorian. You didn't deserve me jumping all over what you wrote and I apologize for that.

[Gregorian]

153. That is a perfect summation of what is happening. I just want to add something.

After reading the thread on Sibel Edmond's case, I now see that without any doubt this administration is, or has, communicated to the media that if they touch her story there will be severe consequences. I believe that for this reason alone we must begin impeachment immediately. Without it no one will go near her story. They would risk everything to do so.

I just wanted to get that out there.

And I"m just as confused as you are about why we aren't proceeding with impeachment. I've been watching this just as you have. Those towns across the country that voted for impeachment resolutions as far back as three years ago.

[magellan]

158. The way Sibel Edmonds has been treated is reprehensible

And if BushCo have threatened the media not to cover her story, well, I can't put it any better than you -- impeach immediately! I hadn't heard that, but there's certainly nothing I've heard her say or even allude to that is a threat to anyone but the criminals running this government.

Every day it feels more like we're living a freakin dime-store fiction!

BTW, I didn't mean to imply with my last post that you weren't following things. I was only laying out why not moving forward with impeachment makes no sense to me, why there's every reason to proceed and no excuse good enough not to. We're on the same side.

Wish we had some GOOD news.

[babylonsister]

94. About 12 hours later, your post still makes sense! And

sadly, I agree.

If anyone didn't check KO out tonight, I encourage you to do so, paying particular attention to Dana Milbank. He brought up what the masses bought in 2000/2004, so they're quite capable of doing so again. :scared:

[Cha]

131. I remember dana milbank

as someone who has carried some gopwater over the years..so has he changed with the weather and do you think he has a valid assessment?

The masses bought a lot in 2000/04 because our corporatemediawhores sold it to them lock, stock, and barrel.. as we know.

There's still fauxnoise and cnn but we have KO now and looks like Scarborough is getting some facts out, too. And chimp's sanity has become an issue..

[babylonsister]

132. milbank was a total shill! Interesting that he now knows which side

his bread is buttered on, or he's seen the light?

[Cha]

154. Maybe time will

tell? I hope it's the latter..he has a big megaphone.

[defendandprotect]

113. If we compare any Democratic government we've ever had with European social governments . . .

what have the Dems done for us?

FDR obviously reacted as he had to --- or he would have seen capitalism come to an end!
He made some simple social adjustments ---
and regulated capitalism --

I think that all points to the fact that most people just want peace and a bit of security
to raise a family and be left alone.


Haiti and Iraq are of our making --- as failed states.

[Pacifist Patriot]

145. This is one of those times I wish I could recommend a reply.

[The Stranger]

24. Can someone awaken the Nancy Disaster and put impeachment back on the table?

[troubleinwinter]

29. Huh? She won't even schedule contempt hearings. I wish she'd just lock her office door & go home.

At least then I wouldn't be wasting my time attempting to hope for anything.

[The Stranger]

38. "Abandon All Hope, Ye Who Enter Here"

[bdamomma]

25. we have to take this country back, and no election is going fix

everything. Is this what we want for our children, to those who have any.

[ladjf]

42. Yes. But how?

[bdamomma]

50. we have to be more involved in our own state local government

start off small do something in your own backyard. And if it comes to violence so be it, only we will be the only ones to know that. Listening to Thomm Hartman now, and when people mass together things get done, it happened for the Woman's Vote and Civil Rights, think about it.

[MonkeyFunk]

28. Talk to the Republicans

get them to impeach and convict.

But as it stands, the Dems can't do it alone.

[rhett o rick]

61. The Dems could if they wanted to, but they clearly don't. nm

[Horse with no Name]

31. This is the enabling arm of the Democratic Party

and until we purge the evil in our OWN party, then we cannot begin to stop the evil in their party.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2392597&mesg_id=2392597

[Marr]

33. He was caught red handed trying to lie us into ANOTHER war.

The man deserved impeachment years ago, but this is so far beyond the pale that it's surreal.

[porphyrian]

36. My representatives are entirely unresponsive.

Now, my primary vote has been rendered useless (Florida), so my options to work within the system have been virtually nullified. I'd have already given up if I wasn't so fucking pissed off.

[ladjf]

40. It amazes me to see how many Americans clearly understand

the political situation and yet there seems to be no way to kick the criminals out of office.

[TahitiNut]

43. Both cowards and criminals "clearly understand" ... but do nothing.

We are a nation of cowards and criminals unless and until we bring the war criminals to justice and take responsibility for our own self-governance. We demonstrably do not deserve to call ourselves a democracy. Future generations should piss on our graves and spit when mentioning our names.

[ladjf]

44. What has happened that turned Americans into cowering

field mice? We have a long history of being a courageous and tenacious people. Something has damaged our thinking processes.

[TahitiNut]

45. Whenever "what we have" became more important than "who we are."

Almost irrespective of how little we have (since we cling to it), we seem to be inclined to regard the "what" as more important than the "who" - whether it be others or ourselves. We sneer at integrity and courage ... seeking to exploit rather than emulate. We're condescending toward military service personnel. We demean the candidate who advocates "peace" and admire the street-fighters. We place a premium on entertainment and turn our backs on education and personal involvement.

We "Let George Do It" ... and lust after HDTV and a new SUV.

[ladjf]

46. I agree with you that materialism is one of the root problems

in our behavior. That being the case, what could be done to convince people that the losing some material things is not worth the terrible cost of spending a lifetime trying to protect them ?

[defendandprotect]

114. Right now, many of us are still living parts of a middle class existence ---

the rug is being pulled out from under that ---

And, Global Warming is becoming extremely obvious ---

Yes, "materialism" .... but who wants things via violence ---

There's a genetic strain among us which is violent --- and has been violent since time began--
They seem to be paranoid and/or psychotic ---

They live in constant fear of some kind --
or perhaps it is merely self-hatred, I don't know.

However --- like my favorite movie --- "The Day the Earth Stood Still" --- which I think outlined
the problem exactly --- until we find a way to control the violent tendencies of the few among us,
we are not going to be able to survive.

[ladjf]

146. I believe that the "violence" that you referred to is a residual

survival trait that might have been useful thousands of years ago. And the "fear" was a byproduct of
that violent behavior. However, in present times, violence becomes a major factor in annihilation rather than survival making it imperative that the human race adapt to current circumstances.

Over population and technological advances have changed the survival game. Maintaining a livable, sustainable physical environment while controlling our natural tendencies toward violence and greed have become the new requirements. We either learn this lesson quickly or we won't make it.

[defendandprotect]

156. I really don't know . . . however there are a lot of people who like to try to suggest

that males are naturally violent ---

If we look at the animal kingdom, males generally do not fight each other to death ---

And in order to carry forth these ideas, I'd have to believe that Mother Nature has
suicidal tendencies --- don't believe that.

You're right, our investions and overpopulation have brought us into a world that
perhaps shouldn't exist ---

Evidently, Bush is figuring out a way to end the understanding that nuclear weapons
are never to be used ---!!!

There have always been people around with a "nuke 'em" mentality ---

So -- I come back again to my favorite movie --- "The Day the Earth Stood Still" ---

love it!

[Selatius]

53. That's because this is not a democracy. It's always been a republic.

There's a BIG difference between direct action and indirect action (or electoral politics). In one, the people weigh in on the matter. In the other, the people choose someone else to make the decision for them. The only country in the industrialized world that could claim the title of democracy is Switzerland. There, the people have the power to challenge the legislature's action by invoking a referendum on it, recall sitting politicians, and even propose initiatives to be placed on the ballot. You can't do that in the US government.

It's difficult to remove a president or even entrenched politicians. Raising money is a problem, and Joe Worker doesn't have a lot of money.

[TahitiNut]

124. The 'cure,' in a democratic republic, is defenestration.

:shrug:

[spanone]

47. i have to agree 100%

[Lilith Velkor]

48. Americans cannot tell the difference between treason and a blowjob

Haven't you seen DLC nincompoop after DLC nincompoop say that here, every fucking day?

[rhett o rick]

62. Our Christian upbring has taught us that there is nothing worse than sex. Treason is just a

political thing.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

49. Yes, We are complicit by allowing these criminals to "represent" the USA.

Impeach Now!

[rhett o rick]

63. Right, let's start with Pelosi. nm

[HCE SuiGeneris]

72. Their premise of not enough votes

has no validity in not executing the duties entrusted to them to defend the Constitution.

[rhett o rick]

78. I couldn't agree more. nm

[defendandprotect]

115. Until Americans hear it on TV, they're not going to move . .. ?????

They need someone to acknowledge for them that elections have been stolen ---
that we have had political violence ---

They are isolated in that most of us do not belong to political groups ---
we don't talk politics as Europeans do ---


Corporations/elite are united in every way possible ---

Citizens are on their own!

[bonito]

51. IMPEACH NOW!

[blues90]

52. It would certainly help if Pelosi and Reid would just tell us

Why impeachment is off the table than at least we would know exactly where we stand and then just perhaps we would know just how to react .

We sit here with some sort of false faith that calls and letters and emails have any affect when by now we must know they do not .

[femrap]

54. K and R

Call and write all of the Dems on the Judiciary Committee!!!! Plus Pelosi.

[HughMoran]

55. Heh, most crippled President in recent history

Better than Dick I suppose. Have we ever had two more vile monsters occupying the top two posts?

[99th_Monkey]

56. Yes & No. Hell YES .. Impeach Now!! But No to giving up on America n/t

[focusfan]

57. i agree with you i wish the s.o.b could be impeached.

like i said Nancy Pelosi must be doing Condi to keep G.W. from
being impeached

[jeff30997]

59. Dupe

[jeff30997]

60. Short answer:

No.Nancy won't allow it!

[Disturbed]

69. Strange aint it?

A women gave us Busholini & a women is keeping him in power.

[Wizard777]

64. If it makes you feel any better. Bush's SS protection expires in 2019.

Then the whole country can go to Crawford to have a heart to heart talk with the him.

[rhett o rick]

65. R u kiddin? In 2009 Georgie will be living in Dubai all expenses paid by

the Saudi's and bin Ladin and Halliburton and Exxon and Blackwater and .........

[spag68]

82. Georgie's place

Obviously you have not heard about the 150,000 acre ranch in Paraguay.

[rhett o rick]

108. Yes I have heard. But I think Georgie ain't a ranch kinda guy. My bet is Dubai and the high life. nm

[fascisthunter]

67. This is a Historical Moment in History

What scares me politically in the future is that the dem leadership drags the whole party down with them because they were to cowardly to do anything to stop Bush or to impeach him for his crimes. The future precedent they are setting is that a President can get away with what Bush has done. And in the future the Republicans can claim that if Bush really did commit crimes, why didn't the dems do anything about it?

Enough with the spin and BS. Average Americans will not buy excuses, not anymore.

[leaninglib]

68. For Christ's sakes, we are in the middle of a Presidential campaign--there will be NO impeachment!

:kick: Get over it!

[HCE SuiGeneris]

73. Well that argument sure is convincing and sooo well thought out.

We are campaigning -- no need to enforce the rule of law. Get over it! *sigh*

[leaninglib]

76. It doesn't take a whole lot of thinking to arrive at a matter-of-fact.

[Tab]

71. I have asked this question many times. No one seems to care.

If this doesn't qualify for impeachment, then why have the power of impeachment in the constitution? What is it for?

Do they have pictures of Nancy Pelosi in her underwear? Grow the fuck up and clean out our government.

Step one: Put Democrats in power, regardless. We're working on that.

Step two: Once step one is done, get the PROPER dems in power. Sorry, Nancy, you lost me by your refusal to even consider impeachment. Unless you have some grand strategy you haven't shared with the rest of us, you're the next one out as soon as we get our position solidified. Careful - the door may hit you on the ass on your way out.

[Pacifist Patriot]

74. I have been wrestling with this for years.

I am a minister and 80% of my pastoral counseling now has to do with existential angst concerning our future with the Bush administration calling the shots. That is just bizarre! What does it take indeed?

[emald]

75. Absofuckinglutely agreeeee!

If this is not enough to bring a criminal proceeding against this criminal mis-administration than the orginal poster is right, fuck this country. It has not been "of the people, for the people" for a long time and if it doesn't get turned around right now then I'm gone. Not in leaving mind you, but gone for the purposes of support, I will be at war with my own government. Fucking criminal Boosh, imprison the lying sack of shit right now.

[rockybelt]

77. A serious quote

A democracy must be fed with the blood of patriots from time to time.

[The Backlash Cometh]

79. Am I the only one who has figured out that Bush is protected because

he just did what a shadow government in this country wanted done to begin with? Or am I being paranoid again?

Twice in one day. Not a good sign.

[rhett o rick]

80. If the Democratic Congress won't fight for us, who will?? nm

[OzarkDem]

81. Weed out the corrupt Blue Dogs & DLC

and it will happen. Until then they will fight to protect their own - fellow GOP'ers who love to break the law and steal from voters.

[defendandprotect]

117. The question is HOW? You have the leadership DCCC trying to sponsor MORE conservatives

to run to block liberals/progressives ---

And you would have to target 47 blue dogs who represent --- and this is a guess -- about 20%
of the party!

Is there anything here worth salvaging?

What about another party --- immediate --- move people and money and find our own candidates?

In other words, you pretty much have the Dems being CORPORATE-SPONSORED --- ALL OF THEM --
PLUS 20% of the Dems being right-wing enough to be dealing with the Republicans!!!

[eek]

85. sorry, but what are you referring to?

hey folks - i have not been in any sort of loop for a while now.

there are a bunch of threads that are interconnected which i am trying to ketchup on.
what are you referring to in this particular thread/topic?


dang! looks like it has been a heaviness-laden day.


'preciate it.

eek

[Canuckistanian]

87. Future historians will be scratching their heads over this one

They'll be puzzling over WHY Congress not only took no serious action against him, but actually HELPED him wreak his havoc.

History will not be kind to the Dems of this period.

[DinahMoeHum]

88. I'll settle for the complete decimation of the Republikkkan Party

if we can't get impeachment.

Make the filthy Gooper fascist pigs pay for what they did.

:nuke:

[MrMickeysMom]

102. Don't forget the Democrats jerking themselves off...

That would be a complete list. Get rid of what doesn't work, and do it NOW.

I'm working on behalf of my congressional district a year in advance to "throw the bum out". In my case, the incumbent is a Rethug, but if they are Democrats and waxing their carrot, they can continue stoking off OUT of congress. Thank you Lord Jesus, Amen.

[defendandprotect]

120. HOW to get rid of the DLC--- and corporate and GOP influences on the party?

That's pretty much the whole party --- ????

[leftist_not_liberal]

122. Exactly Right.

[MrMickeysMom]

127. Well, I'm starting by demanding the candidate I help NOT commit himself, for one...

We ought to spit in their eye, so to speak. Just start getting very, very vocal. Get behind candidates from the beginning so they hear it from the grassroots. Press for real campaign finance reform- like Paul Tsongas tried to with the Concord Coalition.

That's a start, that's all I can say... :shrug:

[defendandprotect]

134. Well, the "HOW?" still stands . . . what if we came together -- citizens on just three issues . . .

DEMANDING ....

An End to the occupation in Iraq ---

That Medicare be extended to Everyone ---

and that there be NO privatization of Social Security in any way ???


In other words, Democrats united . . . ?

[MrMickeysMom]

148. In response to the 3 issues you speak of- so VERY right-

It's like you were reading my mind (while I was sleeping, that is)...

These are the ones that our household routinely calls out to the incumbent I'm now trying to help replace in the HOR.

These are issues on which Democrats can unite, regardless of who they want in the WH next, neh?

[defendandprotect]

155. In fact, Progressive Democrats of America are having a rally ---

South Jersey Coalition Rally for
Medicare for All (HR 676)
“Everybody In, Nobody Out”

Saturday, December 8, 2007, 11am
In front of Congressman Rob Andrews' Haddon Heights Office
506-A White Horse Pike,
Haddon Heights, New Jersey 08035
-----------------------

I don't think I'm going, however --- !!!!
Evidently, their rep has been refusing to make an appt to meet with them!!!

[MrMickeysMom]

157. Imagine that! A HOR refusing to meet with their constituents...

... Like Rep Tim Murphy,(R) 18th CD, Pennsylvania. Oh sure, they call you, but do they ever call you in "real time" to hear your voice? Only if you have deep enough interests that look good for his newsletter and re-election campaign.

It's my wish that he takes the loss in 08 and we have someone who cares in his place!

I hope NJ's district has better luck!

[defendandprotect]

159. This seems to be the Camden area ---

and I'm really not sure about this cause I'm not that familiar with it ---
but bordering communities have tried to separate from it --- it's an impoverished area ---
for instance, "Cherry Hill" was once Camden.

Though I'm living in NJ -- I can only attest to the fact that things are quite a mess here ---
with DEMOCRATS in charge, mainly. A lot of corruption in the Dem Party and Dem governing.
However, I think most people feel that Repugs would be even worse!

When I need info on NJ, I have to go to one of my friends in the Greens who knows all about
this stuff.

He gets a lot of reports of corruption --- people talk with him --- I've sat in on it once
or twice and it was overwhelming. Threats to whistleblowers, etc.

The state police were for a long time --- and perhaps still are/? -- under surveillance for
pro-filing on the highways, etc.

[Dukkha]

89. people care more about playing politics and elections

than actually enforcing the rule of law or doing what is morally right. Americans don't deserve their liberties for consistently turning a blind eye to their own corruption.

[Thickasabrick]

90. Word.....k&r

[Swamp Rat]

91. k&r

[Generator]

92. Losers

skating on thin ice to the dustbin of history. That is what we are. Of course all people are basically losers, it takes time to evolve. Europe had a few hundred wars. We are just getting started.

[whistle]

95. The country is just fine, it is certain elected representatives who hold positions of power

...and authority who aren't worth shit and the voters must remember this come next November, or sooner. Impeachment isn't reserved just for Bush and Cheney, any elected official who is suspect of high crimes and misdemeanors can be impeached and removed from their positions.

[leftist_not_liberal]

98. Deomocracy is a sham

and November won't make one goddamn difference. It's us versus them, and the sooner people wake the fuck up and admit, the sooner we can get around not merely to justice but to saving the planet they have wrecked.

[rhett o rick]

110. Bingo. nm

[leftist_not_liberal]

118. OK, Pissed Off Progressives, it is Way Past Time for a fucking history lesson

As we face the exposure of Yet Another HIGH CRIME that very nearly led (and still could)to Yet Another FAKE A$$ WAR, it is time for folks to wake up and smell the coffee. This fourth generation fascist who stole his way into office IS NOT going to be impeached or IN ANY WAY Prosecuted. WAKE THE FUCK UP. It ain't gonna happen.

And why not?

Because OUR leadership are a bunch of shit-eating, ass-kissing, complicit millionaires who have their own rackets to protect, their own careers in screwing us. Collectively, they don't give a good goddamn. The evidence it overwhelming. Voting for the slickest-talking millionaire ain't gonna work, assuming the election is actually clean this time around which is a fucking pipe dream. "Self-actualization" and all the other spiritual and "new age" pablum ain't gonna do shit. "Reform" ain't gonna do shit.

It -never- has.

Oh sure, slavery ended. Woo Fucking Hoo! Only because it was not as efficient as wage slavery. Times change, and so does exploitation. But it has never ended and neither has the infinitely deceitful, ultimately vicious, and consistently murderous rule of the many by the utterly unconcerned few. Not unto this very day.

Even the New Deal, which would not exist but for pressure from socialists and communists, is nearly completely rolled back. Some fucking reform.

Once, not too long ago really, there was a very similar circumstance underway in another place. Things weren't exactly the same, but the similarities speak for themselves.

Thinking people among the progressive vox populi need to learn their history. And, in no small measure, they need to repeat it.

______________________


The "nihilists" began as the open embrace of an insult or a malicious parody of themselves. Stop for a minute and think about it. "Nihilists" - people who believe in nothing... How is that possible?

To understand the "joke", you have to understand the context. The Russian autocracy should have died with the other remnants of the absolute monarchies of Europe, but it didn't. The democratic ideals of the European revolutions met with complete rejection and ever increasing repression in the most backward of European empires. But, while Russia was certainly the most backward of European states, the implications of that backwardness were uneven. In the cities, the same ferment, the same ideas, the same demands, and the same democratic yearnings as in the rest of Europe, increasingly utopian and "socialistic" in their expression, began to crest. In Russia, however, the wave broke on the rocks of an intransigent autocracy unwilling to entertain "reforms," and on a state apparatus, modern and feudal, increasingly efficient in its suppression of any challenge. More, the countryside was dominated by 50 million "serfs," a form of rural slavery whose continued existence negated even the possibility of all other advances (and, in this way alone, was not unlike slavery in the U.S.).

The story of the rise and fall of Russian liberalism from the great outcry at the time of the Decembrists, to its utter defeat and humiliation by the 1850s, is a historian's project. Only the side effects matter to us. The ascent with absurdly overblown claims of the Russian liberals, was matched only by their utter collapse at the first "whiff of grapeshot," and by their subsequent wholesale abandonment of all that they had previously held true now traded in for mysticism, nationalism and every other manner of slavish abandonment of previously held "principles." The Russian liberals strode boldly off of the historical stage for nearly a century... and, perhaps, even to today.

On reflection, one of the most prominent outlets for this roller-coaster ride was in the realm of literature. Russia was one country in which, for a time, politics was literally a “morality play”. Literature briefly became the quintessential expression of popular unrest.



Why literature? The revolutionary democrat and literary critic, Vissarion Belinsky, wrote that the only sphere where “true freedom” existed during the rule of Nicholas I was in the realm of literature. Perhaps the cause was greater than that, but the result was indisputable. In the most backward of European countries the most advanced of literary cultures, uniquely concentrated in time and space, was born: Alexander Pushkin, Lev Tolstoy, Nikolai Gogol, Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Ivan Turgenev, Nikolai Nekrasov, and two dozen others, all within the first rank of human treasures and all, initially at least, focused on the misery of “the people” and the travesties of the social institutions which prolonged their misery. Alongside this literature itself, a literature about literature, also emerged, in dozens of journals of literary criticism which wandered, predictably, into social criticism, even as they lectured the rising writers on their obligation to humanity. The people, are “always ready to forgive a writer for a bad book, but never for a pernicious one,” wrote Belinsky to Gogol when the latter produced a volume that failed to “awaken in the people a sense of their human dignity, trampled down in the mud and the filth for so many centuries.”

In 1845, one year after leaving the Army, Fyodor Dostoyevsky wrote his novel Poor Folk to the acclaim and approval of Nekrasov, Belinsky, and many others. By 1848, Dostoyevsky was part of the liberal literary group, the Petrashevsky Circle. In April of 1849, he was arrested along with others of that group and he was sentenced to death in November. After a “http://populistindependent.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=1315#1315">mock execution,” his sentence was commuted to four years of hard labor in a Siberian prison camp, followed by 5 years of service as a private in a Siberian Regiment. The shock to the spirit of the young liberal could not have been greater: “In summer, intolerable closeness; in winter, unendurable cold. All the floors were rotten. Filth on the floors an inch thick; one could slip and fall...We were packed like herrings in a barrel...There was no room to turn around. From dusk to dawn it was impossible not to behave like pigs...Fleas, lice, and black beetles by the bushel.”

The result was as the Tsar’s police had intended. Entering prison as a “radical” liberal, Dostoyevsky returned to St. Petersburg in 1859, reborn into the Eastern Orthodox faith and a dedicated spiritualist and ardent foe of radicalism and socialism. The remainder of his ascendant career would focus on themes of redemption and “awakening”, but in so alienated a form as to rip him out of his own historical setting and allow him to make a quantum leap of over a century to become the “father” of that most angst-ridden and isolating of 20th century “schools”, existentialism.



Like dominos, they fell one by one. In 1842, Nikolai Gogol had published Dead Souls to the astonished gasps of the literary intelligentsia. The epic poem was considered the greatest satirical work of its age and, through it, Gogol became the young Homer. In 1849, came the second part of Gogol’s trilogy, patterned on The Divine Comedy, and entitled Purgatory. The young Homer had, in seven short years, transformed himself into the mystical promoter of uninspired religious platitudes, presented in support of the church, the autocracy, serfdom… in a phrase, in defense of all that he had so thoroughly savaged shortly before.

By way of “Pan-Slavism”, patriotism, mysticism, anti-Westernism, religiosity, conspiracy-theory, conservatism, and personal pre-occupation, the greatest generation of Russian writers deserted the field of battle. They were, of course, archetypical of Russian liberals as a whole, the main body of whom were neither as talented nor as noble as the wielders of the pen. Liberalism had had its say and receiving a stern “no” in reply from the patriarch, that was all there was to it. Something had to give and it was Russian liberalism that “gave”.

And there things would have remained if the very greatness of Russian literature had not pulled up alongside itself a superstructure of equivalent stature. Two distinct generations of writers about writers now rose to the task. The older generation of these, the émigré socialist and literary critic, Alexander Herzen, the radical poet and literary critic, Nikolai Nekrasov, the revolutionary democrat and literary critic, Victor Belinsky, and several others took up the mission. Where once they had heaped the most honeyed praise on the Russian giants, now they criticized the delinquent social artists, alternately lampooning, cajoling, lecturing, and finally, replacing, the sword that had been sheathed. One aspect of that transformation was the return of the debate which had taken place in the clouds, back to earth, to become interwoven with actual Russian conditions. Herzen’s journal, The Bell, now simply turned to social commentary. Built around the drumbeat demand for “Freedom for the Serfs”, it became the most widely read magazine in all of Russia. Even the tsar was rumored to read it, often responding with titanic rages.

Yet, even these voices had to look over their shoulders. In the next generation of young intellectuals, a distinct hardening had occurred. The time had passed for talk of appeals, reforms and dependency on the more “humane” characteristics of this or that Tsar or police commissioner. Leading the way was the journal, Sovremennik ("Contemporary") and it’s editor-in-chief, Nikolai Chernyshevsky. Sovremennik’s literary focus increasingly was for the censors alone. Instead, direct social criticism, a form of what would later be called, “muck-raking”, was interspersed with commentary on materialist philosophy, science, economics, and the revolutionary politics of Western Europe. Nikolai Dobrolyubov was an early writer for the journal, while the immensely talented principle of another journal, Russkoye Slovo, Dimitri Pisarev, walked in virtual lock-step with the more senior Chernyshevsky. Commenting on the relationship, the radical democrat Shelgunov wrote that Pisarev “went hand in hand with Chernyshevsky on political and economic questions”.

The audience for the new journals was also “new”. In the youthful intelligentsia of Russia, the young materialists found a willing public, infinitely disgusted with the cowardice, bankruptcy and mystical idealism of the Russian liberals. Even after the radical journals had been officially banned and their editors arrested, they were devoured eagerly by hard young “negativists” reading torn pages by candlelight.

In 1862, the great Russian novelist, Ivan Turgenev, wrote Fathers and Sons, the epic work that from then on would be associated with a society that feared its own children. The novel was a work of intense ambiguity, coming just one year after the anti-climatic and largely meaningless abolition of serfdom by decree . The unintended hero, Yevgeny Bazarov, was a lampoon: intelligent, coldly skeptical, scientific, and revolutionary, he was also amoral, and shockingly unsentimental. He was immediately adopted as a “model” by students and young intellectuals, who now proudly began to call themselves “nihilists”.

The same year that Fathers and Sons was published, Chernyshevsky was arrested. From within the thick walls of the Peter and Paul Fortress, Chernyshevsky would complete his turn from literary criticism to literature itself. In 678 days of solitary confinement, he penned What is to be Done, perhaps simultaneously the most poorly written, and the most important political novel ever produced. Acknowledging his lack of writing talent, Chernyshevsky nevertheless claimed in his prologue that it was “not less important” than the works of the previous literary giants. That turned out to be a vast understatement. With his hero, Rakhemtov, Chernyshevsky responded to Turgenev and expressed not an ounce of the ambiguity that had characterized Bazarov. Writing much later, the literary critic, Jen Marder, would say, “This book has the general appearance of a novel but is really more a handbook of radicalism. The tenuous plot serves primarily to link one monologue of conversation on a point of radical policy with the next. The "revolutionary youth" of the time used What is to be Done as a guide to behavior and ideology for the next twenty years. Rakhemtov, the hero of the novel, became the prototype of hard-headed materialism and pragmatism, of total dissatisfaction with the government, and of the self-sacrificing nobility of spirit that was the ideal of many of the radical intelligentsia.”

The real influence of the novel was felt for more than a century. An entire generation of Russian revolutionaries were moved by the work, not least of whom was V.I. Lenin himself, who wrote his own, What is to be Done” in 1901, in open acknowledgement of Chernyshevsky. In a letter to A. N. Potresov dated January 26, 1899, from exile in Siberia, Lenin conceded to Chernyshevsky, the “heritage” of the Russian revolutionary movement.

In vain did the literary giants counterattack. “They believe in NOTHING!”, shouted Tolstoy in one of his most backward moments, before penning his own What is to be Done about “moral responsibility”. Dostoevsky’s Notes from Underground was written as a direct polemic against Chernyshevsky, as was, in part, his tract against “nihilist extremism” and Nechayev, The Possessed.

It was all too late, as it turned out, for such gestures. The history of Russian literary opposition to oppression was already coming to a close. In its place, an actual opposition was forming...

The greatly extended remix, and the unfolding of a story all serious progressives Need To Know is at:
http://www.populistindependent.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=367&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=nihilists&start=0

[rhett o rick]

152. Yikes, and all i said was Bingo. Seriously, you should make this into a post instead of a response.

Know one will read it here.
good post

[MrMickeysMom]

101. I'm afraid you are having an out of body experience...

... better lower yourself down to earth here with the "country is just fine" shit...

[rhett o rick]

112. Curious but what planet have you been on. Respectively I couldn't disagree with you more.

We are well on the way to ruin. Our Constitution has been discarded and we torture people. What part of "just fine" is that? Are you all familiar with the Patriot Act or the MCA or habeas corpus? The republicans have made it crystal clear that they will support this rush to tyranny and the Democrats aren't doing one single thing about it. Sorry, they are "investigating". Granted we can vote out the republicans which is only helpful if we have progressive Democrats to replace them with. But we can't touch the incumbent DINO's. Practically you can't replace an incumbent Democrat unless you vote republican.

With respect, do you spike your kool aide?

[Riddler]

103. They won't impeach. They spend too much time deciding whether to kiss the POS's ass or his boots.

[defendandprotect]

104. You can really see it over this NIE thing . . . he's obsessed --- defiant ---

and will presumably do what he damn well wants to, anyway --- !!!

[Octafish]

105. They are NAZI bastards. They thought they won the war...

...and they ran into the Truth. Now that they've been exposed as the lying, thieving, warmongering traitors their NAZI asses are they want to run away.

Bush needed his war to escape prosecution as a war criminal. And he didn't get it.

Happy day. Oh! Happy day.

Chimpeach them all.

[robinlynne]

106. I'm afraid to answer....

[scytherius]

111. You nailed it

Like you said . . . this country isn't worth a shit.

[leftist_not_liberal]

121. RECOFUCKINGMMENDED

[Preening Fop]

144. Your "Motion" is Seconded with Pleasure.....!

:bounce:

[polichick]

123. Are Clinton, Obama, Biden or Dodd pushing for impeachment yet??? nt

[subsuelo]

142. Shhhh

Quiet now, you might upset their supporters....

[polichick]

151. oops, I forgot how upsetting reality is. nt

[PinkyisBlue]

126. You are so right!

Someone from the Democratic Senate Committee telephoned our home tonight to ask for money. I told the person I don't give money to the Democratic Committee but to individual politicians because I am very disappointed with the Democrats. I told him Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid have been big disappointments, and that I wanted to see Bush and Cheney impeached. I told him that the Democratic leaders are not representing the majority of their constituents. He practically agreed with me and ended the telephone call right then.

[MissDeeds]

128. Proud to K & R!

What would it take to get him impeached - start lining us up on the White House lawn and start shooting? Jesus! He should have been frog-marched out of the oval office when he said the Constitution was "just a goddamn piece of paper". I hate to be cynical, but this country has lost its soul. It is unrecognizable to me.

[horse_traderxx]

133. If that sob cant be impeached now then this country isn't worth shit

Watch what our do nothings in the HOUSE and Senate do. They will make their media appearances and make their little speeches spewing out worthless rhetoric and then dissappear for the Christmas holidays. That's all, folks!!!

[0007]

135. I think your on to something ThomWV!

[travelingtypist]

136. Constitution demands...

Impeachment is not optional.

:banghead:

[GOTV]

149. No it doesn't. The constitution only stipulates the consequence of impeachment...

The Constitution, Article II, Section 4:
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

The Constitution, Article I, Section 3:
The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

Judgment in Cases of Impeachments shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust, or Profit under the United States, but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment, and Punishmnet, according to Law.

[earth mom]

137. Singing to the choir here. I've been singing that song for well over a year-or is it two or three?

:argh:

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

138. K & R.

[marions ghost]

139. Impeachment is a fair test of the system

at this point IMO. If impeachment is not done in this case then we must accept that the system is dysfunctional. And so then all the comments here about how and why-- and what to do now --become highly relevant. Because one thing is certain. We DO have to move beyond the limited vision of our current corporate masters (euphemistically called "leaders"). Anyone who is brave enough to speak out about the real truth of our collective situation and try to change it is a hero. These are the true leaders worthy of the name.

Even though I agree wholeheartedly about the critical state we are in, I guess I'm easier on The People than most. I don't see that it makes sense to blame the victims of one of the most spectacular swindles in human history--the hijacking of a powerful nation under the guise of "democracy." I think the people have been cowed, oppressed in various subtle (boiling frogs)ways, and economically tethered. And the loss of basic freedoms, the rise of "Homeland Security" and the muzzling of corporate media have put a damper on any form of legal protest.

At the same time many naive Americans have been lulled by the rah-rah rhetoric and the big lie that America is always gonna be OK no matter what we do. And if things are bad out there in the world we are not taught to act, we are taught to pray or get drunk (or use some other other form of anesthetic, including hyper focus on families & children, shopping, sports, TV etc (anesthetizing is not only about substance abuse). Not that these things are bad in moderation--we SHOULD be able to just live-- and not worry too much about our own government abusing and stealing from us. I do understand the urge of the average person to get away from it all and to avoid the big problems we are facing today. These are scary times. The problems are daunting. We are all stressed.

I take hope from the fact that for every person writing comments on DU there are likely hundreds who feel the same way who are not writing but thinking it nevertheless. I know one thing--we can only change this situation by working together, speaking out and acting in whatever way we can.

[Voltaire99]

140. Shhh. You're spoiling Nancy Pelosi's "me" time.

To paraphrase Rodney King, "Can't we all just belong to the same party and split the corporate contributions every 2-4 years?"

[JoeDuck]

141. It's at least party our own fault

We complain but keep re-electing the same people to Congress. The system pretty much guarantees that they will win. Somehow, we have to be able to convince the do-nothings that they will not be returned to their seats of power the next time they have to run.

[rhett o rick]

161. Very true, but exactly how do we replace incumbent DINO's? It is impossible

under current system. We must take over the party from the counties up, or shock our Democratic leaders by voting republican, or starting a new real Democratic party. I recommend the first suggestion (so i don't get kicked out of this blog, jk lol) and have taken actions along those lines.

Welcome to DU mr. duck

[spanone]

147. this country isn't worth shit....that may be the answer

[rhett o rick]

162. Pick any category and see how this country rates. We are ahead of some third world countries. nm

[spanone]

160. Error: You've already recommended that thread.

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[rhett o rick]

163. Question for those that oppose impeachment: Just how far are you going to let them go before you are

willing to fight? What exactly would be the last straw for you? The longer we go with our freedoms reduced the harder it will be to put them back. If BushCorp are not punished, it will devastating to this country and the concept of law.

[rhett o rick]

164. Apparently noone opposes impeachment or is willing to stand up for it. nm

[Mutineer]

165. Agreed. But. . .

the general public just doesn't seem to give a damn. They expect politicans to lie. It's the new "normal". So until you can get the public to care, to really care, impeachment is a non-starter. Hell, we can't even get our Democratic "leaders" to care, to really care, and to move against him as a result. So what are the odds we can convince the general public???