Chavez lost the referendum

[Colobo]

Hearing it on Venezuelan TV now. About 92% of the votes counted. 51% to 49%.

Well, 88% of the votes counted, says Chavez.

[WCGreen]

1. good...

No one should be able to change the rules of the game just because they don't like them...

[INDIA]

14. Wow, there must be millions of CIA agents and rich people in Venezuela

..because, you know, those are the only people who could POSSIBLY vote against Chavez. Or at least that's what I'm told here at DU.

I can't wait to see hear his reaction. I'm assuming it will be something like, "waaaaaaaaaaaaahhh"!!!

Edit: I take it back. From reports I'm hearing, he's actually giving a modest, sane concession speech. Good for him, acting like an adult all of a sudden.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

33. or maybe alot of people who don't want to live in a Latin American Zimbabwe

and naturally anyone who doesn't do weak in the knees swooning for the flavor of the month anti-American "revolutionary" is a conservative christian anti-choice rightwing homophobic racist who masturbates to Bill O'Reilly's most ridiculous thing of the day.

Look at Zimbabwe starting with the 1990 election that gave Robert Mugabe and his ZANU-PF party virtually unchecked power for his reforms, it wasn't a referendum, just a gerrymandered sweep. But he doesn't like George Bush so he must be a great guy right?

[99th_Monkey]

52. $8 Million goes a long ways in Venezuela to spread lies and confuse voters

those are YOU tax dollars at work. You seem happy about that.

[Pavulon]

73. Eight million is dick

you local county spends more on fuel for school buses. You think we bought an election for the cost of an expensive manhattan condo.

nope.

[Popol Vuh]

29. Excuse me?

How is it undemocratic to have the PEOPLE vote on an issue like that? He's asking the PEOPLE if they would like the rules different.

And notice how there's no mention comparing Great Britain, Japan and Australia who DON'T have any term limits? How then is the VOTE in Venezuela any different from those countries?

I wish people would stop buying into the news media's spin and put things into proper perspective.

[MADem]

53. Well, in those countries they don't have term limits because they don't have TERMS

It ain't the same.

A NO CONFIDENCE vote and the sucker is out on his ass.

[rusty charly]

2. is the entire world

split down the middle?

[piedmont]

32. maybe, maybe not. nt

[HughMoran]

3. That's too close to call no?

Amazingly close.

[Selatius]

7. I believe a clause in their Constitution mandates a recount if the vote is close.

Let the votes be counted.

[Guaranteed]

48. You don't want to amend your country's constitution on a "close call." nt

[HughMoran]

51. Yes, I appreciate his realization that a minuscule majority does not a revolution make

Kudos to Chavez for realizing this...

[Double T]

4. Still 8% of the vote could throw the referendum the other way.

Chavez has morphed into a GIANT A-HOLE!

[Colobo]

6. The people at the Electoral Comission say the tendency is not going to change.

[Colobo]

5. Chavez is about to speak now.

[wake.up.america]

16. And speak and speak And speak and speak And speak and speak....

[MADem]

54. Heh heh!!!

:rofl:

[knowledgeispwr]

8. Confirming...

I heard it as well. They said they are still finishing the counting of the vote, but as of now, 'no' is leading on both parts of the vote (the referendum, was split into 2 blocks).

[Joe Fields]

11. Do they have Deibold machines down there?

[MADem]

55. He said they have the best, most modern system in the world, Chavez did. NT

[Ghost Dog]

64. No. It's a transparent Open Source system. n/t

[knowledgeispwr]

9. Spanish speakers...

can watch from here: http://globovision.batanga.com/Player/Video/?guid={GlobovisionVivo}&feed=&type=&sCatList=&liveSignal=true

Chavez is speaking now.

(it's a channel of the opposition, but Chavez's national channel interrupts with official programming).

[Colobo]

10. Chavez is saying it's a "photo finish"

Congratulating the media now and the Venezuelan people.

[David Dunham]

12. It's time for Chavez and Bush both to go.

[Colobo]

13. He is thanking his supporters and those who voted against him.

[Colobo]

15. Chavez is saying that this results show the Venezuelan democracy is maturing.

[knowledgeispwr]

18. He's being very conciliatory

thus far and giving a good speech (this coming from someone who has been very skeptical of Chavez lately and of the proposed constitutional reforms).

[HughMoran]

19. That's good to hear

I've been skeptical as well...

[Colobo]

21. He is saying that even though is close, he is not going to put Venezuela

through hell like in the US in 2000.

[bridgit]

17. oh fucking well...

:(

[msongs]

20. yeah but is he gonna GO if he loses, that's the real question nt

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

23. This wasn't an election. He still has the rest of his term. n/t

[countryjake]

24. Go where?

[MADem]

56. He's got five more years on his term. He finishes in 2012.

He just wanted to be able to keep playing after that.

Nothing to say he won't try this again. But it's good news for democracy, for now.

[Tektonik]

22. What an evil dictator he is!

How dare he let his people vote democratically on changes to the constitution, and how dare he graciously accept the fact he may possibly lose his referendum! THE HEATHEN!

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

25. He is saying he will not contest the results and that the country

doesn't deserve to go through that. He did not want to drag the process out waiting for recounts. Since the trend seems to favor the NO vote he wants it to end tonight.

[texasleo]

26. thank God!

:bounce:

[LaStrega]

27. I work for the Star Tribune ...

The lead Editor just called to say A1 and A3 will be late as they got it off the wire that he lost.

[HughMoran]

28. Thanks for the info

news in the making huh?

[LaStrega]

36. it's a "Stop the Presses!" kinda deal n/t

[Colobo]

30. Chavez to the opposition: "Don't go overboard..."

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

31. He is saying the people earned their victory, n/t

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

35. He congratulates his adversaries. Statically it doesn't seem he

will the vote and he accepts it before the results are even final. The referee has spoken. I could try to use manipulated math to try to hold on but that is not right. "The people have spoken. Even though it's close. We respect the rules of the game."

[Colobo]

34. Chavez: "As I said in '92, We couldn't do it... for now..."

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

37. "The main lesson that the opposition should take is that it can be done

through the ballot without violence and trickery."

[SyntaxError]

38. Clearly this proves he is a dictator...

I mean, it has to, right?

[provis99]

63. No kidding. And a Stalinist Communist too

[HughMoran]

39. Chavez loses referendum on presidential term limits

Chavez loses referendum on presidential term limits
08:43 | 03/ 12/ 2007



CARACAS, December 3 (RIA Novosti) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has lost a referendum on abolishing presidential term limits and removing the Central Bank's autonomy, the Venezuelan electoral authority reported on Monday.

The vote was reported to have been extremely close, with earlier electoral authority reports putting the figures at 49.2% to 50.7% against Chavez.

Chavez had claimed that the changes would return power to the Venezuelan people. His opponents, however, accused him of a power grab.

"We will accept the results whatever they are. Venezuelans have never voted so often as during these nine years of peaceful and democratic revolution," Chavez said after casting his vote on Sunday.

Turnout was reported to have been high, and long queues were reported at polling stations across the country. The referendum also sought to reduce the minimum voting age from 18 to 16.

Under the current Venezuelan Constitution, Chavez is due to stand down as president when his term expires at the end of 2012.

Edited for link:

http://en.rian.ru/world/20071203/90604064.html

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

40. "We wil continue to build socialism as the constitution permits us" n/t

[nightrain]

41. well, I hope the referendum doesn't pass

even though I support some of Chavez' ideas. This one about removing term limits is just a power trip. Dictators, like ice cream, come in a lot of flavors--Bush, Chavez, Putin, Musharref.....

[malaise]

67. So was John Howard a dictator?

How about Tony Blair? No term limits there.

[HughMoran]

69. Irrelevant

They did not attempt to use their popularity to change the constitution in their favor - BIG difference.

[nightrain]

72. I don't speak Spanish, but via translation, I hear

that Chavez said voting "Si" meant a vote for "me", and "no" meant a vote for George Bush. I think that's kinda extreme and hiding the idea that he wants to remain in power.

From my point of view, power is extremely hard for most to say no to, and to leave gracefully when time's up. Witness Bush's comment about dictatorship--wouldn't be so bad as long as I'm the dictator. Is Georgie watching Musharraf and Putin manipulate their way into remaining in power? It's helpful, I think, to have change, even if the governing is going well. No leader is irreplaceable, I hope, even a decent one. Let's not put too much power into the office or office holder, huh?

I'm glad Tony got voted out, and Howard as well... I think it's suspect to have too much mystique around the office holder and to try to change the rules midstream. I mean, really, what would we say if Georgie was attempting to do something similar? and had control over the vote counting!??! Very dangerous, I think.

[LaStrega]

42. AP wire

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/V/VENEZUELA_CONSTITUTION?SITE=MOJOP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[Auntie Bush]

46. Thanks for the link. Good to hear.

Now let's hope bush keeps his nose out of Venezuela's business.

I don't want any interruption in the flow of oil. It costs us over $1200 a month to keep warm in this 10 degree windy snowy weather. I don't know how we're going to manage.

[LaStrega]

50. whoa!

And I thought my $400/mo. gas bill for my drafty old house was 'spensive!

Oh, and it's currently a sweltering 9-degrees here. Yay for winter!

Not.

[MADem]

57. Good lord, are you heating the Taj Mahal?

Have you put in window kits? Wrapped/banked your foundation?

Maybe you need to get a few of these and turn down that oil: http://www.econo-heat.com/topten.html

We heat THREE houses for far less than that.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

43. He's telling Colombians he remains at their service especially senator

Córdoba.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

44. "We are all the people in spite of our differences. The struggle continues." nt

[Guaranteed]

47. A response like that deserves respect. nt

[Cleita]

45. See! You don't need a CIA backed coup after all in

a democratic government. The people have spoken with their vote.

[malaise]

68. No No No

Never forget Mushie is a democrat and Hugo is a dictator even though Chavez actually followed the constitution and went to the people for change.

I can't wait for the spin to begin in a few minutes.

[Cleita]

71. You guys just don't get it.

It wouldn't matter if Chavez were a monarchist or a Nazi. The fact is that he is following the democratic process and putting up his plans to a vote from the people. That's what gets destroyed every time our State Department stages a coup because they don't like the democratically elected leader because he's a communist.

Look what happened in Chile and what would have happened if Kissinger hadn't destroyed the Chilean democracy because he didn't like Allende. Allende was making mistakes and he would have been voted out the next election in a democratic process. Instead the Chileans got decades of brutal dictatorship with Kissinger's hand picked new President, Augusto Pinnochet after their democracy and constitution were wiped from the face of this earth.

It's too bad we can't have elections about the war and other issues that Bush has dragged us into like the Venezuelans were able to have in this referendum. Which is the real democratic nation here? It's time for us to butt out of those countries affairs and let the people decide whom they want for a President and what powers to give him.

[L. Coyote]

49. But he really pulled off a big victory in the exit polls!

EXIT POLLS: Yes to Venezuelan constitutional referendum

Just when I thought this was over, after a long, interesting night waiting for official results and doing discourse analysis.
Now, is there going to be an exit polls controversy?

===============
YES to Venezuelan constitutional referendum: exit polls
Mon, 03 Dec 2007 05:58:05 GMT
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/152093.html

Caracas, Dec 3 - Three exit polls have projected that the 'yes' vote had won in the referendum on constitutional overhaul as Venezuela's National Electoral Council (CNE) announced delay in the initial results.

The surveys were carried out by PLM Consultores, Datanalisis and the Venezuelan Data Analysis Institute, or IVAD, according to the Spanish news agency EFE.

The results were leaked to the press even though Venezuelan law prohibits the publication of exit polls before the release of official results.

PLM Consultores said that 54 percent of the public had voted 'yes' to 46 percent 'no', Datanalisis gave 56 percent to the 'yes' option and 44 percent to the 'no' choice, and IVAD said that 53 percent of the votes had been cast for 'yes'.

............

CNE chief Tibisay Lucena earlier told reporters that the referendum would allow Venezuela to give 'a lesson on democracy to the whole world,' adding that there had only been 'four or five' isolated incidents at polling places.

..........

[LittleClarkie]

58. I thought we were being told he won

what happened?

And I thought it was about the referendum and not him losing power. Or is it about him being a lame duck now?

[Guaranteed]

59. Well...

He lost.

Or, rather, the constitutional amendments failed.

It was something like 49.3% to 50.7%.

[LittleClarkie]

60. But he's still president right? Is he now a lame duck?

Is that the problem?

[Guaranteed]

61. Well, the term limits will kick in, I think, when his term is over.

That seems to be the idea around here.

But I don't think his term is over for quite awhile.

[LittleClarkie]

62. So it's not time for the Chavez supporters to collapse in grief

Yet.

[Ghost Dog]

66. His term is until 2012 and he is far from a lame duck.

This is what I hear. And more importantly the already mobilised 'social movement' behind him may well be if anything reinforced by this outcome.

[Ghost Dog]

65. It was looking like this just before the result came in:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3782975

[Marr]

70. At least this will be an opportunity to silence the people shouting "dictator" around here.

A dictator wouldn't bother with a referendum, and they certainly wouldn't respect the results of such a vote. Now, perhaps...

Oh, who am I kidding? They'll just come back and shout the same, stupid bullshit again next week.