Quite frankly,I think getting the troops home is a lost cause until 2009

[Herman Munster]

We can't even get 60 fucking votes for a fucking non-binding resolution that has no teeth. Republicans have enough votes to block anything we try to do and Bush still has the power of veto and the power of executive order.

I just don't see any solution other than taking back the presidency and increasing our majorities in the house and senate to strip republicans of their power to block anything we try to do.

[Katherine Brengle]

1. You're right but they have to keep trying.

It sets the stage, it defines the party leading up to the election, and beyond all that it's the right thing to do, even if it won't work.

And to see Democrats standing up for what's right and at least getting the chance to do it in a way that people notice... well it's something.

[bigluckyfeet]

3. The Democrats

Should put some pressure on them and stop approving all the judges.

[derby378]

2. Impeachment would solve that problem PDQ

We need to hammer on impeachment more than we ever have. Seriously.

[MannyGoldstein]

4. Yes But

The Dems are flaming wimps, craven triangulators. Unless the Rethugs start the process - which I thought they would, but now think that they're actually too damned stupid to realize that they must - this is a non-starter.

We need to start weeding out the "Dems" who are simply triangulating flotsam. Which is 70+% of them.

[babylonsister]

5. My man Manny! Please answer this with your wisdom, 'cause I need to

hear some.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=237649&mesg_id=237649

[MannyGoldstein]

9. My Daddy Has It Figgered Out

One of his sayings is "Never try to figure out what crazy people are thinking - you'll just get pissed off".

Frankly, after the asskicking the Rethugs got in the elections that Dean lost for us, I'd figure that if the Rethugs had even a shred of a self-preservation instinct, they'd veer away from Bush. Clearly, they're staying the course like lemmings one row back from the precipice. Not only is this inherently appalling, it gives the Dem triangulators tons of room in which to operate - very disappointing.

[liberalpragmatist]

6. How on earth do you expect to get 67 votes for removal?

If we can't get 60 votes for a fucking non-binding resolution condemning the troop surge, how on earth do you expect to get 67 votes to remove Bush from office?

I'm all for impeachment if Bush unilaterally invades Iran. Even then, though, it's not going to result in his removal from office given the partisan lock-step nature of the Republican caucus. And in the absence of an Iran excursion, it's certainly not going to happen.

[TahitiNut]

13. It's a good thing Gandhi, Martin Luther King, and a host of others never heeded such 'advice.'

Impeachment proceedings are the Right Thing no matter what the crystal ball gazers claim the results will be. If those crystal balls were so reliable, race tracks would've gone out of business years ago.

[babylonsister]

15. Oh, my! A dear voice of reason in my confused world!

:hi: My world isn't that confused, just some perceptions. I asked what the rethugs are getting out of this. You might know, or not:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=237649&mesg_id=237649

[liberalpragmatist]

16. That still doesn't tell me how we get to 67 votes

I'm all for vigorous congressional action against Bush. I'm all for citizen protests, awareness - there are plenty of things we can do. But impeachment is a pipe-dream and would be counterproductive unless you could get the necessary votes.

[TahitiNut]

19. The longest journeys begin with but a single step.

It is the tragic circumstance of humanity to go through the journey of life without really knowing the destination. The only guideposts we ever have on that path is conscience - that sense of knowing the "next step" and a direction, if not the destination.

The basic problem of 'pragmatism' is the illusion of 'knowing' - when millennia of people with far more intelligence and experience than most of us have repeatedly codified the accumulated wisdom of their years into some principles that appear universally. This cannot be accident.

"Do The Right Thing"

If it merely places into the record the crimes and abuses of this cabal, that can be enough. Newspapers vanish under the bird-shit in the bottom of the cage. The record of those people, no matter how few, with a modicum of integrity in our Congress would be enough. If nothing else, it's a legacy to our children and their children.

Absolutely nobody can predict with any certainty how many votes for conviction might be found in the Senate. And NOBODY WILL KNOW UNLESS WE TRY.

The cowardice of not trying has only one illusory "reward" - the pretense of some kind of 'control' and avoidance of 'losing' ... but the LOSS is then self-inflicted and absolutely guaranteed, NOT avoided.

[babylonsister]

7. I agree 100%. We are not loonies or delusional. It's time because this

man is out of control:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3118854&mesg_id=3118854

[DURHAM D]

8. So you want Cheney for Pres? n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

10. Presumably, It'd Somehow Be A Package Deal

At least it'd better be.

[DURHAM D]

18. Care to explain . . , n/t

[derby378]

22. Doesn't matter - Cheney has a bad heart, can't keep up with any Dems

We impeach Bush, we take the White House in 2008. We just need a little gumption.

[DURHAM D]

23. If we impeach Cheney or Bush then John McCain will likely be

appointed to fill out the term. You still think the Dems will take the WH if running against McCain as the incumbent in '08?

[derby378]

27. McCain? Don't make me snort hot cocoa out of my nose

When the man had a chance to show he had any cojones, he folded. I think a lot of Republicans see that, too - in the unlikely even that he were to win the 2008 primary, you'd have a lot of Repukes either holding their nose at the polls or casting a vote for that Constitutionalist Party or whatever they call themselves (the former US Taxpayers Party).

[Erika]

11. The GOP have been leaned on heavily to end Iraq

far before 2009.

[struggle4progress]

12. Quite frankly, nothing will excuse not making a real effort to shut this bullsh!t down

[Porcupine]

14. When the Democratic congress votes funds to continue the war

we are going to look like f@#king idiots. Then the GOP gets a walk in 2009. We can't even get the 3 "front runners," Clinton, Edwards and Obama, to renounce the war and renounce expansion of the war to Iran.

It's that powerful koolaid they serve in DC. A continued war is a looser for the US. Expansion of hostities to Iran is insanity. Whose interests are those mentioned above serving? Not ours.

[MADem]

17. Eh. what's this 'we' stuff? You're looking way downstream there,

and you couldn't predict a more negative outcome if you tried.

Don't worry about front runners so much right now. We haven't seen a single DEBATE yet.

Ed Muskie was a front runner. Gary Hart was too, a shining star, way out in front.

No one thought Clinton had a prayer--when he got the nomination, plenty of party insiders groaned and figured we were doomed--hell, Poppy was initially delighted.

So don't be surprised if Richardson surges late in the game.

Dewie Defeats Truman, after all...you just never know.

And it's WAY too soon to sign, seal and deliver all that gloom and doom. Much too much can happen between now and election day.

[Porcupine]

20. The Pentagon has to get more money this spring.

They're broke. They cannot continue to fight the war without funding unless they give the constitution the old heave ho.

My wild ass guess is that Bush is going to try and start some fracas with Iran and then demand more money and authority directly after that. I'm guessing we lose at least a full destroyer with most of the crew to an "unidentified explosive device" that will later be identified as an Iranian mine by miraculous recovery of the frogmans wallet.

Then they go to the cravens in congress and demand more money.

I like Richardson right now above all others and what I've heard from Vilsak(sp) is good. Governers always do better in presidential elections than senators; it seems to be a rule.

[leftofthedial]

21. The Democrats have already shown they have no stomach for any serious

challenge to the status quo. Too many of them are running for president and too many others are lining up behind one or another of the candidates.

You are right. Nothing will happen until after the 2008 elections. Trouble is, the public may be so fed up with gutless Dems by then that we'll have stalemated government for the foreseeable future.

Eliminating all repukes is the only way to save the planet.

[blues90]

26. For me , I could care less about 2008 right now

The way things are going we may never get there with all the efforts being put toward all these candidates intentions .

All the money being spent for campaigns is enough to make me sick .

I suppose it's fine for those living in the political world in a shell in DC , they always seem to do just fine after office some how .

There are many thousands of people who don't have time to wait for 2008 or even next month for help and this should be the issue now .

I will lay odds that by the time 2009 when one of these campaigning fools is sitting in the whitehouse they will be facing worse than we have now and not one of their campaign promises from their highly thought out speeches will come into reality .

It is easy to stop the problems in the US and write a great inspiring speech but quite another to actually pull it off .

We could be sitting in WW III for all we know , then the entire game has changed .

Politics is just any other spectator sport , the two teams with a game plan and the spectators roaring them on . It hardly seems real to me anymore .

[Beelzebud]

24. When Hoyer got the leadership position over Murtha we were doomed.

[DURHAM D]

25. Wow - it would have been so easy

for the msm and the Repugs to marginalize Murtha.

He has ethics problems and signs only one note. Geez

[Fire Walk With Me]

28. They've built several permanent military bases in Iraq-- they're not coming home.

And BushCo are sending ships against Iran as we type. Just one "incident" requiring a response inside Iran and we're at war, Congress or no Congress.