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Oh Geez. Can we please have a couple more threads on Hugo Chavez? Please??

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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:33 AM
Original message
Oh Geez. Can we please have a couple more threads on Hugo Chavez? Please??
Cause I don't think there are enough already.
Perhaps 10 more? Perhaps 20?
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm sure that I can find a few more articles
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks! That would be fantastic!
It's cold tonight. Let's throw a few more logs on the giant flamewar.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
26. Anyone who cares about truth, history and context
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fizzgig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
3. this is the first time i've ever done this
:popcorn:
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. ugh. how i hate that smilie.
hate hate hate.
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fizzgig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. i know
that's why i used it :P
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
6. Forty Paris Hilton threads, comin' right up!
Do you want cheese with 'em, hon?
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. That's a false choice.
May I have slow and painful death instead, please? Please?
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. LOL.
I was thinking of finding a picture of Hugo and photoshop him saying "I love you, Elrond", then post it as a separate thread.

But I'm not that cruel.

Me? I could really use more HRC.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. More HRC...now there's a source of entertainment that will never run dry...
:cry:
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:32 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. Not for eight years, at least.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. ACK! Bite your tongue!!!!
NOT eight years of HRC, PLEEEEZE! :banghead:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
7. If you promise I won't get in trouble with the mods
I can start some

;-)
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I got ya covered. You won't have no troubles.
Trust me. :pals:
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
10. I have an idea; I'll start a thread about people starting threads about all the Chavez threads!
Will that count?

sw
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Go for it.
:P
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. We could really go meta on this, ya know! Someone else could start a thread about people starting
threads about threads about how many Chavez threads there are! And then there could be another new thread about THAT thread! And then... well, the possibilities are INFINITE!

Or would that cause the Universe to collapse in on itself?

Maybe I'll have to give this more thought...
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
13. Did you see Rumsfeld's WaPo op-ed today, virtually declaring war on Venezuela?
You better believe that the Andes region (rich in oil, gas, minerals, social justice and democracy) is Theater of War II in the corporate resource war, because it's coming down the pipe. I wonder how old you are. Are you draft age? If not, do you want your kids fighting in the jungles and mountains of South America? And if the use of our kids as cannon fodder to enrich Exxon-Mobile doesn't concern you that much, perhaps the ten trillion dollar deficit does?

My point: We NEED to pay attention to this matter--the peaceful, democratic revolution that is occurring in South America, and what it means to global corporate predators who are hungry and prowling the world for RESOURCES. They want to focus your attention narrowly on Hugo Chavez as a personality, so you won't see the big picture.

And a post like this tells people: Go ahead and be stupid, be uninformed, dismiss the lives of millions and millions of people as of no consequence, and ignore the enormous economic and political change occurring in South America. Maybe you won't feel it when it whacks you upside the head.

This is a BIG DEAL. You only have to read what Donald Rumsfeld just wrote about it to know what a big deal it is. Look out, friends! This is going to hit you like Iraq--like a hundred mile an hour train hitting a mountainside head-on. These war profiteers intend to take our every last time, our every drop of blood, our futures.

Here's your future:

Rumsfeld's op-ed:

"The Smart Way to Beat Tyrants Like Chávez" By Donald Rumsfeld

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2384690
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Made it through half before I wanted to vomit
The subtext of the screed is that they want the resources and Chavez won't play ball.
It's a load of garbage, and Rumsfeld could say the sky is blue and I wouldn't believe him.
I don't know if war with Venezeula is on the plate...I think Iran is a much more likely prospect at this point.
But who's to say? These scumbags like ruining everything they can get their hands on.
I'm of draft age, yes, and I don't want to be shipped off to die for corporate bullshit interests.
And you misunderstood my OP. I'm not saying we should dismiss what is going on in Latin America. You're talking about focusing too much on Chavez...and that's exactly what i was saying to begin with.
I'm sick of all the back and forth on Chavez because it is pointless and gets us nowhere. That doesn't mean I don't want to be informed of NEWS...NEWS I want to hear.
But 'Chavez is the devil' and 'Chavez is a saint' threads I can do without.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 05:13 AM
Response to Reply #15
24. Thanks for your reply. I think I misunderstood your post.
I'm one of those who keeps trying expand to the big picture in Chavez threads, because it is really extremely important that we understand this--both Chavez's 72% approval rating in Venezuela, and his widespread support in the region, and among the region's leaders, and the vitriol and distortions and lies of our corporate media, the Bushites and some corporate Democrats.

I totally agree with you that "Chavez is a devil" and "Chavez is a saint" is a pointless argument. But I really don't see much "Chavez is a saint." Usually the pro-Chavez posters have facts, evidence, information, links, solid reasonable arguments and none has ever said "Chavez is a saint." (Some have said something simple, like "Go, Hugo!"--but that is not to say that he is a "saint," it's just expressing approval.) The anti-Chavez posters, on the other hand, are often simplistic, and often just repeat corporate media "talking points," and, when challenged, seldom have anything else to say--"Chavez is a dictator," "Chavez is an an asshat," "Chavez is a loudmouth"--endlessly repeated, with no facts, evidence or links to support their negative (and often vitriolic) opinion. It's rare, indeed, to find anything of substance in anti-Chavez posts.

But those of us who know a lot about this subject--Latin America--and feel strongly about certain things cannot let this corporate crap go by unchallenged, because what WE see is that when U.S. media does this kind of demonizing campaign, the next thing we know is that people are being tortured, and assassinated, and thousands 'disappeared,' or a million of them are dead from U.S. bombs. THAT is why we persist. We KNOW the awful history of U.S. interference in Latin America--and now, tragically, in Iraq. We see all the signs. We are alarmed. We want to warn people, and get them to see where all this propaganda is going.

And we know, too, that Hugo Chavez is not the only Bush target. They are also interfering in Bolivia. They really want to overturn the democratic will of the people in at least three countries (also Ecuador), and to STOP this social justice/independence movement and install rightwing dictatorships in power again, which will have bloody and terrible consequences.

If it were a matter of no moment, I wouldn't bother to answer these brainless anti-Chavez posts. But it is a matter of very great moment, indeed. The Bushites are ALREADY committing crimes in Venezuela--pouring money into rightwing political campaigns, against Venezuelan law, and likely funding rightwing paramilitaries with weapons caches from Colombia, where they are in cahoots with some really terrible paramilitaries. They are also trying to destabilize Bolivia. This is an on-going Bushite project--and some of our Democratic Party leadership supports it.

The American people have for too long ignored what our government has done to half the hemisphere, and have been egregiously misinformed about it. Some rail against the "illegal immigrants" and have not a clue that the immigration is a direct result of U.S. corporate "free trade" policy. And almost no one in the U.S. right now has any concept of what the revolution against these policies in South America is going to mean HERE.

So, yes, focusing on Hugo Chavez is an extremely distorted narrowing of the issue. It's not about Chavez. It's about the millions of people who support him, and other leaders like him. It is THEIR revolution, and it is a very deep one--a profound change in thinking all over the South American continent, and spreading fast into Central America.

Some of the big things that are happening (besides leftist governments being elected all over the place):

Formation of the Bank of the South, and shoving the World Bank/IMF loan sharks out of the region.

Throwing the U.S. military out of the country (Ecuador).

Rejecting the failed but neverending U.S. "war on drugs" (Bolivia, Venezuela, Ecuador).

Formation of ALBA (Bolivarian trade group).

Expansion of Mercosur (general S/A trade group).

Nationalizing oil and gas resources and infrastructure (Bolivia, Venezuela).

Rejecting corporate privatization of utilities, infrastructure and other national assets.

Regional development projects, regionally funded (gas pipeline, ship building, bridges).

Discussions of a South American "Common Market" and common currency (getting off the U.S. dollar), of forming an OAS without the U.S. as a member, of forming a South American "OPEC" which would control about 12% of the world's oil production, and other profoundly important new ideas.

Notice that we are on the "outs" in all these (and more) activities. These thing are happening and will continue happening, Chavez or no Chavez--although Chavez is a particularly visionary and active leader of them. But there are others--two very charismatic young leaders, Evo Morales in Bolivia and Rafael Correa in Ecuador, for instance. And there are many we haven't heard of here yet. They are not anti-American. They don't hate us. But our inability to control our own government has sparked a strong determination to get out from under U.S./corporate domination. And, while this may cause us economic pain, it should also inspire us to start our own rebellion against the Corporate Rulers.

These developments in South America ARE going to affect us profoundly, and may one day become our model for reform. I don't think any of the Bushite plots are going to succeed. The tide of history is against the Bushites and their ilk in Latin America. If they assassinate one leader, two more will spring up in his place. The Bushites are causing a lot of trouble--and will likely cause more--but they will lose this battle. And we need to know this.

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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
17. he is now eviler than the BFEE, it seems.
oh, how things work. according to plan. I :rofl: at bait some here are taking that Chavez is yet another new Threat.
not really. it's actually dismally Pathetic.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. just leave the guy alone, i swear.
i can't stand people bashing him all the time, but i can't stand people worshipping him either.
it's all so annyoing! :banghead:
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. i've not seen worshipping here...
please link to the worshippers, I would like to see.
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Mr_Monday Donating Member (220 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Umm,
Most responses to Chavez threads are positive. And some people do in fact worship him (I believe one person even said Chavez was their "Jesus".) Basically, in some supporters, Chavez can do no wrong.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. "...some people do in fact worship him (I believe one person even said Chavez was their "Jesus".)"
Let's see the link.
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rjones2818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
25. Since the vote's today, we'll
probablly have MANY more posts on Venezuela today.
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