Nader considers '08 run for president

[oberliner]

Former Green Party presidential candidate Ralph Nader said he is considering a presidential run in 2008 and strongly suggested Thursday he would enter the race if New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton wins the Democratic Party nomination.

"She's just another bad version of (former President) Bill Clinton,'' Nader told KGO radio host Ronn Owens in San Francisco.

Asked to describe Clinton, a front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination a year in advance of the primaries, Nader said: "Flatters, panders, coasting, front-runner, looking for a coronation, not taking on the huge waste in the military budget as a member of the Armed Services (Committee), never going after the corporate crimes against pensions, against workers. ... She has no political fortitude.''

Asked specifically if he would run in 2008, Nader said it is "too early to say ... (I'm) considering it. We're going to see what the Democrats come up with.''

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/02/16/MNG75O5TPU1.DTL&feed=rss.news

[Clark2008]

1. Well... um...

Can't say that I necessarily disagree with him regarding Hillary - but what was his excuse regarding Gore?

[Connonym]

2. Nader can kiss my ass

[lligrd]

3. I Think We Would Be Better Off Just Completely Ignoring Nader

No posts, no news. The more we debate him the more likely he will jump in.

[DemKR]

4. If it came down to Hillary vs. Nader

I'd vote for Hillary in a heartbeat. Period.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

5. God He's Such A Selfish, Ignorant, Dumbass Loser.

[mike_c]

6. you know, Nader gets a lot of grief, but if HRC gets the nomination...

...lots of liberal Americans are going to be looking for someone else to vote for. That's a fact. I hope the democratic party recognizes that before it disenfranchises the left yet again.

[leftchick]

11. way more than in 2000

Millions more i would bet.

[sallyseven]

16. Anyone that votes for Nader anytime anyplace

for any reason is certifiably insane. They hate the US.

[paulk]

24. the left disenfranchised itself

when it voted for him the first time...

[mike_c]

33. well then, I presume you won't complain when they do it again...

This is sort of rhetoric is really pretty pointless. If the left is so meaningless, then you've no basis to complain about whomever they vote for. And if their votes are meaningful, then shouldn't democratic party candidates be working for them rather than dismissing them?

[Edweird]

41. So, all the "Nader" voters are happy the way things turned out?

The current state of our country is preferable to them voting for a Democratic candidate that they might not love?
And they would do it again just to prove a point? Because whoever gets the Democratic nom isn't their favorite or didn't kiss their asses collective enough? That's just a teeny bit short sighted and selfish don'tcha think? I'm not the least bit thrilled about HRC, but I'll vote for her over ANY RW thug they put up. Life is like that sometimes. A vote for Nader is a vote for the RW. After what has happened these past 6 years, how could anybody consider Nader?

[paulk]

43. I was making an observation, not a complaint.

Are any of the major candidates pandering to the small section of the left that pushes Nader and/or the Greens?

The only thing Nader accomplished was getting Jr. elected. That and pushing the Democratic Party toward the center.

---------------

[Superman Returns]

7. well, here come the Nader insults

I understand people are upset with Nader over 2000. I was too. No one can say that the world wouldn't be a different place today if Nader didn't run for President, giving Al Gore enough votes to win.

But lets look past that for a minute. Why can't he run? Its his legal RIGHT if he chooses to. And if there are those that CHOOSE to vote for his candidacy and agenda, and cause the Dems to narrowly lose, its not Nader's fault. Its the fault of the Democratic candidate that didn't appeal to that particular person.

Hasn't Nader been largely right about the domination corporations have over our political system? Hasn't he been right regarding how money has corrupted our campaigns? From news reports I've read, 2008 will be the first billion dollar campaign. In my view, that is a problematic trend.

Now, I'm not advocating voting for Nader. Right now, I'm a firm supporter of Barack Obama. But keep in mind, people have a right to run and express their ideas. It is democracy at its finest. You can argue that Republicans have been caught funding and helping Green candidates. Thats fine. But if you are against the merit of Nader running simply because it would hurt Dems, then I diagree.

To some, Every election, is the "pivotal election." Every election is the election you can't "waste your vote" on. But there is going to be a time when we have to honestly address the growing corruptive nature of our two-party political system. If people always wait to the next election, it will eventually be too late. Poltics shouldn't be a football game, where two sides blindly cheer for victory, essentially for bragging rights and a win for the metaphoric scorecard. It should be about achieving consensus on policy through debate, through public discourse. Thats why I have no problem with Nader running and appreciate his possible candidacy.

[pepperbear]

9. correction...

I understand people are upset with Nader over 2000. I was too. No one can say that the world wouldn't be a different place today if Nader didn't run for President, giving Al Gore enough votes to win.

Al DID have enough to win, but not against cheaters.

[Warren DeMontague]

32. "Upset with Nader over 2000". Actually, I think his behavior in 2004 was pretty bad, too.

If you remember, he let conservative Republicans -clearly intending to boost the "spoiler" factor- run his state campaigns.

[seabeyond]

40. i gave nader a pass running in 2000. it was him running in 2004

and not the fact he ran, cause he does have the right but the lie and manipulation and dishonesty in his run in 2004 that i have ssue with him. he sold out. he holds no integrity. anything he acomplished in his earlier life has been pushed away and out of site from his actions in the 2000's. he showed us who he was in 2004, and it isnt anything i have respect for.

[Deja Q]

8. Maybe Nader wants Hillary to run. But,

Since 2000, a lot of dish has come out against Nader. He's past it, I'm afraid.

But he's right. I'm not sure Hillary could be trusted either.

But what difference would any of it make? Anybody would run and Nader would still jump into the ring and find a quaint excuse.

[PhilipShore]

10. Well he is just a human being -- I have been hard on him...

I suppose if he admits his mistakes and refuses -- to ever take another dime from GOP campaign groups, and actually do some research -- into the Middle East before he starts ranting about Middle East issues, I would probably vote for him to in 2008; if Hillary does not drop out too. After all she is just another Nader (in 2000 hand picked by the DLC and repukes) -- so Ralph might be doing something practical.

It really is not that difficult. The only reason -- why -- he gets slammed on the Palestinian issue is because he has not researched the corrupt Military-Industrial-complex, PNAC role in keeping a war going in the Middle East -- just to keep the war machine running.

[LWolf]

12. Simple solution.

If you don't want Nader to run, don't vote for Hillary. A vote for HRC will lose many of the more liberal voters, anyway. Nader just provides a convenient scapegoat. :shrug:

Don't nominate Hillary, and perhaps Nader won't be on the ballot. As a bonus, a better nominee might pull in some of the votes that a Clinton nomination loses.

[Old and In the Way]

14. A threat of Ralph Nader running won't change my mind on who I vote for.

Let him make an ass of himself, again.

[LWolf]

18. That's as it should be, of course.

My response is intended for those who prefer to deflect accountability rather than accept it.

When we make a conscious choice to vote for the candidate that would best (in our judgement) serve the nation, we do so with the awareness that not all agree, and that our choice may turn others away. We accept that when making the choice, or we look around for someone else to blame if things don't turn out the way we want them to.

The Democratic Party and Democratic voters are aware that some are unhappy with the direction the party has gone, and that votes previously taken for granted are at risk. While I support the right of the party and of each voter to make an informed, conscious choice, I also expect that the same respect will be given to those whose conscience leads them to vote differently.

In other words, there should be no whining about non-Democratic candidates or the votes they earn.

[Warren DeMontague]

23. "those who prefer to deflect accountability rather than accept it"

Yeah- I've got him right here:

[LWolf]

39. Perhaps.

I could add plenty more, of course, and those would be actual Democrats. Ralph Nader can be held accountable to those who support him. He doesn't owe anything to the Democratic Party.

The Democratic Party, and Democrats, are accountable for their own losses, and their own mistakes. We can't blame Nader for them.

At least, not if honesty or integrity is part of our politics.

[Warren DeMontague]

Bullshit. The only nominee Ralph Nader gives a shit about is Ralph Nader.

Mark my words, it doesn't matter WHO the Democrat is- because Ralph isn't a Democrat. He'll piss and moan and pull the same shit that he does EVERY 4 years. Oh, and if we're very nice and extra careful, "Perhaps" Ralph Nader won't be on the ballot... That's rich. What should we do- prostrate ourselves and beg him? Pleeeeeeeeease, Ralph! This time? For us????

Yeah. How about those far right Republicans he let run his state campaigns in 2004? Whoa, what a font of fucking integrity he is, to be lecturing the Democratic Party.

That bloviating fucktard and his ego can go screw themselves.

Anyone still honestly believe that we wouldn't have been better off in 2000 if Gore had become President?

I'll say it again. Fuck Ralph Nader.

[LWolf]

38. lol

Your assumption that my post has anything to do with Ralph Nader is bullshit.

I expected some visceral, unthinking assumptions, but that's what they are. Bullshit.

My post is about scapegoating, pure and simple. If it weren't Nader, it would be something and/or someone else, as long as the party, or its voters, don't have to be accountable for poor choices.

[Warren DeMontague]

42. I don't want Hillary to be the nominee, either.

But Nader doesn't get a free pass. And he's what this thread is about.

[Old and In the Way]

13. Once you get that Presidental ambition in your blood, it's darn hard to kick it.

Particularly when it's Republican money supplying your habit.

[BootinUp]

15. If he was serious about fixing anything he would run for the democratic nom n/t

[havocmom]

19. BINGO!

Get in a real race and effect a change on the debate instead of just whining about it.

[Poiuyt]

34. If he were serious about fixing anything, he would have been working between

presidential elections to promote a progressive agenda. He could do so much good if he wanted to, but he only comes out once every four years to mess things up for the Democratic Party

[Mark E. Smith]

17. Things must be looking bleak for the GOP

Looks like they sent Ralph a big check.

[Warren DeMontague]

27. Shhh!

Stop it with your pesky facts! Ralph is a GREAT MAN who only wants what's best for his ego, er, sorry, his country!

[Warren DeMontague]

20. Great!

I bet right wing republicans are lining up around the block with $$$ donations and offers to help run his campaign.

AGAIN.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

21. afraid of a spoiler effect? then push for instant runoff voting

dems control legislatures in most swing states. instead of whining after the fact, they can amend the process by which electors are awarded.
polls show that when presented with this option, the public overwhelmingly favors it

if hillary's the nominee, i vote for ralph or stay home.

[Warren DeMontague]

25. Then what the hell are you doing here?

Last time I checked, this was Democratic Underground.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

29. and last i checked i vote for real democrats when they run

Carville's pro-war crony Hillary isn't one of them

[Warren DeMontague]

30. I don't want Hillary to be the nominee, either.

But if Ralph Nader is a "real Democrat", how come he let spoiler-minded Republicans run his state campaigns in 2004? The man is full of shit. He's the definition of full of shit.

And you know what? If Hillary is the nominee, I'll support her. I don't want her to be, but if she is, then that's how it will work.

[paulk]

22. "We're going to see what the Democrats come up with."

what an arrogant piece of shit.

another "bad" version of Bill Clinton?

Fuck you, Ralph Nader.

How dare you judge anyone after what you've done. You've got blood up to your fucking armpits.

[WinkyDink]

26. He likens the 2 parties, but he only ever criticizes the Democrats.

[Warren DeMontague]

28. Funny how that works, isn't it? nt

[Warren DeMontague]

31. Say what you will about Ralph Nader, there's one vote he can always count on:

His own.

[kurth]

35. Fuck you, Ralphie

[derby378]

36. Neither ginbarn nor I support Hillary's nomination, but Nader can bite me

I'm voting straight Democratic in 2008. End of fucking story.

[Telly Savalas]

37. In addition to the presidency, there are thousands of elected offices

at the federal, state, and local level, all of which make important decisions that directly impact the every day lives of Americans. Almost all of these positions are held by Democrats and Republicans. If the two major parties are simply two heads of the same corrupt hydra, as Mr. Nader often claims, then why is he making no efforts towards creating a network or infrastructure to help take back these offices?

Anybody on the left who can't support the Democrats should at the very least ditch Nader and vote for the Green Party, which actually is trying to establish a framework for getting progressives elected at all levels of government. In the absence of such efforts by Nader, it's pretty hard not to conclude that his presidential bids are motivated almost exclusively by vanity.