Today's Detroit Free Press contains 123 pages of real estate foreclosures for Wayne Co, MI

[Bozita]

That's not a typo. One hundred twenty-three pages. Fifteen and one-half ounces in weight.

Eight sections of the newspaper. Six columns per page. My rudimentary sample indicated approximately 25 properties per column.

The 2008 Tax Foreclosure List was a paid ad placed by the Wayne County Treasurer, Raymond J. Wojtowicz.

Bushenomics is destroying SE Michigan.


The Free Press' link does not appear to function properly:
http://www.marketplacedetroit.com/realestate/foreclosures.php

[acmavm]

1. That's horrifying. And winter is just beginning.

I have a really bad feeling about this winter and the suffering that's to come.

[Name removed]

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[Vincardog]

3. States' rights? Just like the Federal response to Katrina was the Governors fault.

Did the people making those loans for the houses TOO BIG for the owner bear any responsibility?
Could it be that the big 3 do not want to build a quality vehicle because they want to destroy the unions and American Dream?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Name removed]

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[SeattleGirl]

10. UNIONS are hurting the big 3?

Frankly, that's bullshit.

Sounds like something a Republican would say.

You didn't land in the wrong place, did you?

[Name removed]

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[SeattleGirl]

19. Well, I'm sorry about what happened to your dad and the other workers.

I really am, and if the union didn't step it up for them, shame on the union.

I just object to your blanket statement that Unions are the problem with the Big 3. Unions, by and large, do step up for their members.

[Bozita]

20. and the union could have stopped the closing by doing what?

[Name removed]

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[SeattleGirl]

27. Again, I have to say that you are allowing one situation involving a

union color your view of ALL unions.

To me, that's the same as assuming that all people of a certain race or class are exactly the same as the single member of that race or class that broke into your home, or assaulted you, or whatever.

You seem to have been blinded by what happened to your dad.

[Name removed]

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[Bozita]

44. The UNION offered a week's pay as a bribe? Where would the union get that kind of money?

[Name removed]

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[Bozita]

58. OK, so that was a company offer. Why did you first describe it as a union bribe?

[Name removed]

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[BlueCollar]

101. "Duty of Fair Representation"

doctrine is generally understood to mean that the union present offers relating to "wages, hours and conditions of work" to union members or risk being sued for failure to represent.

I've been a Union member for 21 years...served as a Steward and as a Local Representative as well.

My Union hasn't always made me happy, but I'm far better off with a Union than without one.

The decline of Organized labor is the decline of the middle-class.

M

PS: Former US Navy here...Welcome Aboard

[druidity33]

81. no union here

7 years at the same job and i've had to fight for every quarter raise. I now make $9.25 an hour. No health care, no mediation, at will job.

I'll take paying dues any fucking day of the week just to have representation at the workplace. I know the UAW Local President around here, a stand-up guy and good friend. He ain't no thug. My wife was a Union President for a year. No corruption or backstabbing there.

But PLENTY OF APATHY.

You want to change how the Union is run? Get on a board, run for Secretary, or Finance Officer or something. Don't just sit on your ass and complain about what they didn't get for you.


Your brush is WAY TOO BROAD, buddy.

[Name removed]

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[Bozita]

91. Don't you feel the need to expand your knowledge of labor unions? There are tens of thousands of ...

... union locals in this country. You base your judgment on TWO!

That's the kind of curiosity and reasoning I'd expect from the current pResident.

Do yourself justice. Dig around.

I'd suggest looking at just about anything written by Professor Howard Zinn as a start.

[druidity33]

102. bull

If it was one of the BIG unions, you could go higher up the chain. That's the whole freaking point. REPRESENTATION.

If i had stopped eating chocolate after that experience i had with a Cadbury bar when i was about 8, my life would be less fulfilling and exciting right now. (lets just say raisins don't have wings)

Of course you know that without Unions we wouldn't have:

-a weekend
-holiday pay
-overtime
-paid health-care
-medical leave
-a 40 hour work week
-safety standards
-a minimum wage
etc.


Your attitude reminds me of people i meet that have nothing but contempt and scorn for Congress and yet have never written to their Reps and have never volunteered for a campaign or taken time to actually find out where Politicians stand on the issues. Are you the type that would vote for someone based on whether you'd like to have a beer with them or not?

:shrug:

[druidity33]

104. without Unions

here's where we'd be:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2346903

[Bozita]

37. "Union thugs" ran that local? Did the thugs cancel union elections? And the members voted for whom?

[Name removed]

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[Bozita]

55. I grew up in a union home. I paid union dues all my adult life. Served as a union officer for 10 yrs

I was the treasurer of a 1200 member local. My financial reports were audited annually by a top accounting firm. Nobody ran up bar bills on the union tab during my tenure. And not one single penny was ever missing or misappropriated.

A union is only as good as the membership makes it.

[malaise]

59. That simple

I am still a union member.
K & R

add

[Name removed]

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[Bozita]

67. It was a good, clean union because that's what the members wanted and voted for.

Nothing more and nothing less.

If you were a member of an ineffective union, what did you do to improve things?

[Name removed]

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[blondie58]

103. good point, Bozita- A union is only as good as the membership makes it.

I think that most unions are okay and you have to look at the big picture. My union may not always make decisions that I suppport, but if I wasn't protected by a union, I wouldn't get the decent pay and benefits that I do, being an active member of NALC Branch 47 in Denver, CO.

[Occulus]

100. That's what happens when you have wusses as stewards.

They cave to management and management puts them in their back pocket. In the meantime, management stalls every single grievance they can, deliberately creating a backlog of unresolved grievances, which lends credence to the point of view that the union "isn't doing anything" about management abuses. At the same time, management flagrantly violates the contract they themselves signed- and often the law itself as either an ancillary or deliberate act- knowing full well and good that the union is too busy resolving the pending grievances on the local or national level to deal with real issues like pay scale violations, creation of a hostile work environment, flagrant FMLA violations, and so on.

Can you tell I've had experience with this sort of behavior? Daily. It's called corruption, and not all locals are guilty of it.

[malaise]

33. By letting the robber barons

take everything for themselves. :sarcasm:

[ellie]

82. My dad

dropped out of school in the ninth grade to help support his sickly, immigrant parents. He later got a union job in a glass factory and raised eight children, built his own house, and gave us all the amenities of a middle class life, including a private school education. You tell me, what kind of job do you think a ninth-grade dropout would have gotten had it not been for the union? There is corruption everywhere and it is up to the members to root it out. When I read posts like yours I want to puke.

[Name removed]

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[lynnertic]

107. take it easy; it's the big 3 that are hurting unions.

and now I see that I skipped 1 level in this thread and someone actually said that unions hurt the big 3. The same big 3 that could've cornered the auto market w. electric cars if they wanted to but instead destroyed them.

I have NO sympathy for the big 3. They're run by greed.

[Vincardog]

11. Do you think it might have something to do with the fact that Nissan, Toyota AND Honda are loyal

to their employees?
Unions built the middle class.
The Middle Class made this country great.

Why were American Made cars the best in the world when the unions were strong?

[Name removed]

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[malaise]

23. The rise of the American middle class coincides with

the rise of the trade unions. A little history never hurts.

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_rise_of_the_havenots
<snip>
Median family income over the past quarter-century has stagnated. The economic rewards from increased productivity, which went to working-class as well as wealthy Americans from the 1940s to the '70s, now go exclusively to the rich. The manufacturing jobs that anchored our prosperity were offshored, automated or deunionized; lower-paying service-sector jobs took their place.

Add link

[Name removed]

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[malaise]

30. The workers are the unions

Get real.

Sp.

[Name removed]

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[malaise]

57. The real fat cats are the CEOs of corporations and their

cronies in government.

[Name removed]

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[Bozita]

25. Design jobs are not union jobs.

Ask the retired GM engineers who lost their healthcare earlier this year.

[Name removed]

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[Bozita]

31. You just said that design was a problem. What could the UAW do about design?

[Name removed]

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[Bozita]

62. So the Big 3 would have built better designed cars if the UAW had negotiated lesser agreements?

I'm detecting the aroma of Kool-Aid.

[Name removed]

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[Bozita]

71. Do you honestly think that the import plant workers would be getting those wages and bennies if ...

... there were no UAW?

[Name removed]

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[nonconformist]

15. Oh right, it's the UNION'S fault

:eyes:

[TahitiNut]

18. Wow! Somebody's lost ... and it sure ain't me!

Ohio, huh? Figures. :shrug:

[Name removed]

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[Vincardog]

73. You prefer that we all rely on the beneficence of Corporations?

[Name removed]

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[Vincardog]

75. You want to take them on yourself alone? Well good luck with that.

[malaise]

22. Yep

throw workers' rights out of the window then seize their homes. Great American values those.

[Name removed]

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[malaise]

32. Look

Reagan fucked the American middle class. Wake up.

[OldMarine6012]

35. hate to say this

but, under Reagan my dad worked more than in the past. He was laid off for 3 years in m id 70's and around 80 he was called back and worked every day till he retired. In fact, they were busier during the reagan years than previous because of their military contracts they had to produce plating and other items.

[malaise]

51. It's hard when our own parents suffer but remember

they're never more than a sample of two.

[TahitiNut]

114. OldMarine6012 ... your pizza has been delivered!!

:rofl: Anyone surprised? :eyes:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=211138

[safeinOhio]

4. Could it be that

there is no regulation of lenders. Now they'll get bailed out while the little guy gets the blame.

[nonconformist]

14. Maybe it's not that people bought too much home, but that they could previously afford it

Before they lost their job, and gas went over $3 a gallon, and food prices skyrocketed, etc.

[SeattleGirl]

17. Exactly. It irks the shit out of me that so many people just assume

that foreclosures are happening only to people who bought more house than they could afford. And further, even if a lot of people folks losing their homes ARE ones who bought more than they could afford, they are not solely at fault. The predatory lenders are also at fault.

I hate that fucking arrogant attitude that some people have about this. "Well, I am holier-than-thou, and since I didn't end up with one of those loans, I am so very much better than you are." :puke:

Instead of just pointing fingers, we need to look at the whole picture, see where the problems lie, and try to turn things around.

And, back to my original point: not everyone losing their home is a person who bit off more than they could chew. I wish more people would understand that.

[Name removed]

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[SeattleGirl]

56. I was not accusing you of having that attitude at all. I still think you

are lumping all unions into one big bad group, but as to the foreclosure issue itself, never thought that about you. No, no one put a gun to Joe's head and forced him to sign, but I think that Joe shouldn't have to take all of the blame.

One thing many lenders do is not only bury important things in the fine print, but oftentimes, they write those important things in such a way that while you may THINK you understand them, sometimes, you don't. Or they are written in a way that the meaning of them can be manipulated by a company or corporation with tons of attorney's in their pockets.

I'm not letting Joe off the hook, but I'm also not letting the mortgage lenders off the hook either.

[Name removed]

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[SeattleGirl]

68. You asked earlier if I were a member of a union. I'm not, but everyone

in my family is, and has been pretty much all their working lives.

The only reason I'm not in a union is that there is no union in my field of work.

As to my family, what I've seen overall from the unions are good things.

You seem to have had the misfortune of landing in two bad ones. And one thing I will say about that is that, like nearly everything, there are always those few bad apples that taint the whole bushel.

[Name removed]

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[Bozita]

77. So, the assemblers at GM are "workers", but those same workers at Honda are "ASSOCIATES"?

Next thing you know, Honda will call them "line management". It'll save bundles on overtime pay.

[Name removed]

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[nonconformist]

97. That's what many of the foreclosures are about in Michigan

And lots of other places.

[Demeter]

29. Michigan Went Into Freefall on 9/12/2001

And it's been downhill ever since. First the tourists and the businesses that serve them, then the manufacturing and the cities that lived off them, now even the services are drying up and blowing away. And Bush has done NOTHING, NOTHING about it, and Cheney comes to gloat periodically.

Bush did 9/11. And in doing so, he destroyed our nation.

[knitter4democracy]

79. What do you know of Michigan's history?

Gov. Engler ran this state's economy into the ground. He kept cutting taxes to lower than 1970s levels for all of his cronies while upping spending. Granholm inherited a massive mess and has a state economy in a recession to deal with it, not to mention state legislature Republicans stonewalling every good idea she's got but not doing a darn thing themselves to fix a g.d. thing.

People here are hurting. We get tons of foreclosures here in Battle Creek all the time--family farms going under, poor people losing their only piece of equity when they get laid off or when the local business they work for goes under from lack of sales. Most homes getting foreclosed on here aren't on the rich, that's for sure.

Oh, and Hubby and I drive Fords. I love my Freestyle--best car I've ever had. The other moms driving Toyotas and such are jealous of all I got for a cheaper price--better tranny, better engine, better seating config, better everything. Hubby's Taurus runs great and is really comfy and fits us nicely and yet still gets good mileage on 94, even at 5 years old. That whole thing about Big Three cars being crap is totally bogus. Look at who has more recalls per car year--it's not Ford.

[Skittles]

80. your repuke roots are showing

very unseemly

[Clark2008]

110. The Big 3 DO make quality vehicles.

I have never, ever, ever had trouble out of my Fords, but my ex-husband's Nissans and my current husband's Beemer have all been in the shop tons of times.

I'm so very sorry that Americans still believe this is the 1980s and that American cars aren't good - they're superior in that they're not as expensive and they're not as pricey to fix should anything happen, which is rare.

My husband didn't believe that either - but he now misses his Ford truck.

[earth mom]

112. My husband has been in 5 Unions. They NEVER screwed him over.

Your assertion is something I've heard before from freepers. They hate Unions. They hate anyone who makes a decent living because they are jealous, small minded, greedy BASTARDS. :puke:

[Crabby Appleton]

6. 2008 Tax Foreclosure List -

[Robbien]

7. This is tax foreclosures right? Different than bank loan foreclosures

How does that work I wonder. Who gets what between the state and the banks. Who gets the rights to foreclose first.

[Name removed]

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[Buns_of_Fire]

9. Tax liens are senior to mortgage liens.

It's a sorry bank, indeed, that'll let a property they hold the mortgage on be auctioned off for unpaid property taxes. They'd stand to lose the whole shootin' match.

[dysfunctional press]

12. BUY NOW!- when the greenland ice sheets melt/slide into the sea-

Detroit will be one of the most important cities in the U.S....

the coastal cities will be inundated, Detroit sits on an international border, and LOTS of fresh water.

[Clark2008]

111. I live in Tennessee.

Will I have ocean-front property?

[dysfunctional press]

116. no. and neither will detroit.

the bottoms of the great lakes are above sea level- ocean rise won't affect them.
but most if not all of the (ocean)coastal cities in the u.s.(and the world) are going to be inundated.

detroit is poised to make a pretty big comeback at some point in the future.

[Rex]

13. Expect sob stories from the M$M about Middle class Bob and his family

and how they now live on the streets in 20 degree weather. Notice how the M$M will NOT talk about why Bob is in his current situation. It will just be pure emotional fluff. The kind of stuff they love to 'report' on.

[SeattleGirl]

38. My, but you are assuming a lot, aren't you?

You are assuming that:

A) Every foreclosure is on a home bought by someone who bit off more than they could chew.
B) Every person who owns one of the foreclosed homes is a moran who didn't read the fine print on the paperwork.
C) The predatory lenders have absolutely no responsibility in the foreclosure mess.

A more open mind would be nice right about now.

[Rex]

39. Ha, wasn't 'blaming' the people who bought the homes but the M$M

for their expected behavior. But thanks for playing, here is a cookie. :hi:

[SeattleGirl]

41. Sorry, not buying the insult.

:hi:

[Rex]

42. Of course not, you just assume away.

:hi:

[SeattleGirl]

45. I responded to what you said in your post, which to me, sounded like

you were making the assumptions I posted.

That obviously wasn't what you meant, point taken.

My current objection is your "thanks for playing, here's a cookie" response to my post. That's the kind of thing one says to a troll, which I definitely am not.

:hi:

[Rex]

46. Well then I apologize, just kinda pissy today.

My fault. I get snotty sometimes, sorry. :hi:

[SeattleGirl]

48. No harm.

I can get snotty at times myself.

:hi:

[Rex]

50. I guess I just get too assholish when it comes to the M$M. To much kneejerking

on my part.

Have a nice day SeattleGirl. :)

[HCE SuiGeneris]

52. Batten down the hatches

this is going to be a rough and stormy ride.

[Supersedeas]

53. welcome to Bush country -- where the Oligarchy comes first

[Initech]

76. Holy crap!

I have family that lives in Wayne County. This blows.

Bushonomics = the rich get richer, the poor and the middle class get fucked. Plain and simple.

[Liberal_in_LA]

78. Holy crap X 2!

[tammywammy]

83. I wonder if these people had their taxes withheld in escrow through the year

I know that I have money for taxes and insurance held in escrow. Were they supposed to pay this themselves and didn't, or did the mortgage company or whomever not pay the taxes?

[Bozita]

87. I'm sure they did. Sounds like these mortgage firms have been in trouble for longer than we know.

Perhaps 'borrowing' from escrow accounts?

[tammywammy]

88. Well, if they did have their taxes reserved in escrow

I'd sue the mortgage company for the money if they didn't pay the taxes. Also, the homeowners can file a complaint with RESPA.


I'm thinking that these people were not having their taxes set aside in escrow.

[Bozita]

89. You could be right. A lot of these lenders offered NINJA mortgages.

They simply made the loan and sold the paper.

[Festivito]

90. Four on my one-sided block of 17 homes. Already empty.

Four down from CREDIT CARDS.

I have no idea HOW MANY MORE might be in tax arrears.

Family's been here over 60 years when first built. Four still my same neighbors, plus one moved in from a different block.

Blaming Dem Gov. Granholm is a favorite meme of Publicans in Michigan. Repeated until tah-rue.

I BLAME BUSH-CONS.

Few buy new cars every two years or six months anymore. And QUALITY DID GO UP. So that last car bought at the end of Clinton/beginning of Bush term WILL LAST and IS LASTING. (And, Ford SURPASSED Toyota in quality this year -- so eat that!)

THE UNIONS ARE BEING DESTROYED.

The white-collared took buyouts and now cannot sell their homes and move to the southwest. Or, they'll just dump the house here if they can. Leave it on the market here while they live elsewhere -- if they have enough money.

SAFE NEIGHBORHOOD. Despite Detroit's #1 unsafest rating.

And I'm angry.

[Bozita]

96. Gotta make sure the grass is mowed and the snow is moved.

It's important to not look abandoned.

It might be worthy of a block effort.

The block you save might be yours.

[Festivito]

115. It's EVERY block around me.

Realtors have ours. They keep it up. I'm luckier than some blocks.

What I wonder is: who is paying the taxes?

[JVS]

92. Will I be able to buy these houses on the cheap?

[greyghost]

93. Very sad, but it's only...

the beginning.

I've lived in NOVA for twenty years, it's always been an affluent recession proof area.

NOT ANY MORE.

If it's that bad here, I can only imagine what the rest of the country is going to be like.

[Bozita]

95. Detroit's gonna look a lot like NOLA without the excess water.

Hoping to hell that I'm wrong.

The peak of these foreclosures is still a year or two away.

THIS is only the beginning.

[Romulox]

113. Detroit was poorer than NO before Katrina, and remains so after Katrina.

The nation's compassion is quite selective.

[JVS]

94. What does this mean? Does this mean that the residents are thrown out?

How is this different from a mortgage forclosure?

[tammywammy]

99. I think it goes through the same process

The houses will be put up at an auction and if not sold on to the open market. The current owners will be evicted from the houses.

[Buns_of_Fire]

105. If it's a tax lien purchased at auction, the owners have a certain amount of time to redeem it from

the purchaser of the lien. With interest, of course. If not redeemed within a certain amount of time (in Michigan, one year I think), the purchaser can apply to the tax entity for a warranty deed on the property. They own it then, whether any junior lienholder (like a mortgage company) likes it or not -- although I just can't imagine many mortgage companies allowing that to happen unless they've been diverting escrow money to prop up their own financial statements.

Anyway, though, THEN the purchaser of the tax lien can be as much of a hard-ass about it as their upbringing, morals, and/or religion allow them to be.

[tammywammy]

108. Ahh

Thanks for explaining.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

98. Michael Moore spelled it out years ago in "Roger and Me" re: Flint.

Same story. Shut down the factory, the town is a ghost town full of misery.

[Wcross]

106. Even in a "good" market they are rising. Nashville for instance.

We have had a pretty steady market here, not much of the double digit increases seen elsewhere. New construction has been on the high end of the market though. I have noticed foreclosure announcements in our local paper have grown from an average of a half a page to three-four pages. We haven't suffered major job loss or industry downturn. For the most part they are a result of people buying homes they couldn't afford.

[noonwitch]

109. Had to have been the longest freep edition in decades

I used to love the Free Press before the JOA and the subsequent strike. It is not the paper it was before all that. It's short, poorly written and not worth the 50 cents they charge for it.