Let me tell you about some Ron Paul supporters

[Ishoutandscream2]

We can call them a fringe group, but they sure seem to "throw themselves out there" and appear to be attention whores. Well, maybe I shouldn't put it so bluntly, but even at my work, I see a pick up truck with "Google Ron Paul" written in white shoe polish on the back windshield. Come to think of it, even here in Redder than hell Rockwall county, about the only Republican candidate bumper stickers seem to be for Paul. I've seen one Romney sticker, which made me laugh my ass off, but Paul seems to be the one getting the most attention.

I have talked pretty extensively to 3 strong Paul supporters who have contributed to his campaign. Two are at my work (one of them owns the pickup) and I talked to one in a Wal Mart parking lot (okay, so fucking shoot me). They were all white men, probably between the ages of late 20's to mid-forties.

I always started off telling them I'm a liberal democrat. That gets them very excited - a heathen to convert! I tell them that Paul did impress me deeply with his foreign policy views. Amazingly, they skipped over this tidbit and talked about domestic issues and returning power to the people. When I asked them how, they all seemed to say that the government is the problem, and the private sector could better serve the people. So, I say, you like his libertarian approach to government. They love that about him, and believe that more tax payer dollars will be saved and the many problems we have in this country will go away with the help of the private sector. They are like Paul in wanting to almost completely gut such things as Medicare and Medicaid, and like Bushler, they want to privatize social security.

So it's not necessarily about foreign policy, I ask? Well, they do like some of his thoughts on that, but it all goes back to bat shit crazy insane libertarianism. I've told them that there are a lot of progressives who applauded Paul's statements on Iraq and they should run on that, but I might as well have been talking to zombies.

Conclusion - Ron Paul is nuts, and his followers aren't much better. They seem to hearken to a better time, like the Gilded Age, for instance. Don't let Paul's stance on Iraq fool you - this man is probably like a Grover Norquist who would like to drown government in a bathtub. That is the impression I got, anyway. It was interesting talking to them. What really frustrated me was that two of these men work in public education. Talk about voting against their personal interests!

[msongs]

1. ro paul flyers all over our downtown area tonight - "join the RP revolution" they say and

considering our downtown is tonight using taxpayer dollars to stage a pseudo-xmas lighting worship of the neighborhoo'd wealthiest right wing nut republican, a major backer of the california split electoral votes initiative....so they flyered to target the people coming down for that.
imagine all those xtians thinking the event is about jesus when it is really about the right winger as jesus replacement.

Msongs

[SharkSquid]

6. Huh?

I have no clue what you are getting at here

[PATRICK]

2. Let me tell you about my son

and he is a zealot of different stripe. His pickup truck BTW is parked in my driveway awaiting an infusion of cash to put it on the road and retire his current crutch on bald tires.

He overlooks the libertarian pro-business nonsense and looks at the larger problem of a system controlled by select demi-gods destroying democracy. He preaches to one and all in the hustings of this "fringe" more about the crisis, the facts and the cause than just the man. Now I have no trouble speaking and sympathizing or arguing with him than with anyone here on DU. He is mostly in the stratosphere thanks to Alex Jones who has been granted a strange truth power by the glaring obviousness of abuses the establishment will not allow the people to see much less oppose. Like my friend at work who had been strongly formed by deliberate propaganda in army training, there are disconnects, oddities. He has made it though a larger quest for a spiritual rising of mankind and his own committed identity.

If we had more mini-whirlwinds like that raging through the ill paid, the cheated, the hopeless, the just plain angry, the people semi-awake to injustice, we would spend less time grousing about their nuttiness and failings, shaking our heads in dismay. How politically correct is a revolution exactly? How politely worked up and reasonably liberal do people have to be who throw the tea boxes in the harbor and take on the imperial troopers? There is something bigger than Ron Paul and his followers or any fringe movement lighting fires under the collective butt, but so far the butt dominates, quashes and is accommodated.

Anyone with some type of intervention or argument to suggest is free to help me out here. failing that I am proud he is working mightily, albeit in yet another typical hopeless cause, to change the world from what is blatantly and concretely wrong and tragically directed. And he changes more minds than I do.

[SharkSquid]

5. Good post,

k&r

[Ishoutandscream2]

7. Have you tried to talk to him about other "fringe" candidates?

Like a Kucinich, who is one who seems to address your son's concerns, with a much less draconian approach than Paul.

[PATRICK]

56. A different avenue of revolt

Outside of all parties and the mainstream, which is hard to argue with, he unfortunately made his more productive pilgrimage up from Alex Jones to the real world of political battle. Where he came from before that were much darker regions, but in all that I trust his heart. If my head and the things I feel I must trust in were a godlike 100% maybe I wouldn't act like the prodigal's father.

Respects DK and Edwards but swallows, like all enthusiasts the varied slanders or misgivings. Few here are much easier to convince. The kicker is that you might prove so and so has a better agenda and is a better person but still have to deal with the lack of faith in party or system. You can thank the class of 2006 for squandering or sacrificing that elan altogether. Individual heroes are lost in the general trap.

[Kahuna]

3. Ron Paul is just the lastest cult of personality figure for the clueless

to glam onto. Hey! They gotta have someone. :shrug:

[wtmusic]

76. 2007's Ross Perot

A real "plain talker". No-nonsense, roll up the shirt sleeves, let's get things done kind of guy.

Without a clue. :crazy:

[SharkSquid]

77. Ahh my favorite Chris Dodd guy

Evening..

I dont think Paul is an idiot, crazy? perhaps, Texan? oh yeah. Dumb? not likely. But the bar is pretty low these days.

[wtmusic]

80. Evening SS

Exactly, the bar is low. I can think of worse candidates. I guess that's what it's come to.

[SharkSquid]

4. "bat shit crazy insane libertarianism"

Like some people on this boards "bat shit crazy anarchism"

Or "bat shit crazy thought police PCness"

Every groupd has those clamoring for change, he very much would like to drown govt in a bathtub, but he has been saying that for 30 years and has never chaged his tune.

This guy is no suprise, we think he is nuts for the same reasons that moderate republicans or moderate dems look at some on DU as "nuts" so who gives a shit, its their primary not ours. If he gets elected, good, there will be more definition between our ideas.

Who would you rather have running the Republican Party, the neo-cons or Ron Paulites.

[Ishoutandscream2]

8. And drowning govt. in a bathtub IS batshit crazy

And I'm sure many on DU would agree. I, for one, don't want the days of child labor, rampant monopolies, and few worker's rights (even though folks like Paul and today's Republicans are doing their very best in this). Paul doesn't represent true Democratic ideas, and we Democrats don't need to be fooled by him.

[SharkSquid]

11. Are dems fooled by him

I do respect that he has never voted for an unbalanced budget BTW.

[Ishoutandscream2]

22. Yes, there are some. Some of them have been here at DU

[SharkSquid]

28. Then they are not paying attention

Some things are to be liked about him, never voting for an unbalanced budget, limiting the executive branch, following the Constitution (strictly constuctionist but hell), but he clearly is not for the liberal crowd and he is not a left winger, but it would be a hell of a fun election with him and DK.

Two candidates actually talking about the effing issues, it would be a damn miracle.

[cali]

38. he doesn't talk about the issues. he doesn't advocate a return

to the constitution as a document open to change and interpretation. And sorry, on thread after thread, despite your demurrals, you act as an apologist for Paul

[SharkSquid]

47. Nice accusation

At what point do I say ANY of his policies are good...

You however tell me that he wants to enact "murderous" policies. I am just glad to hear a Republican talking about the damn Constitution like it means something.

[Orsino]

43. Well, there have been a few that admired him for his anti-war stance...

...even if they realized it was all of a piece with his moonbat Libertarian isolationist fantasies.

If a Republican has to win in '08, I might not mind if a genuinely crazy one took the White House. Might be a considerable improvement over a candidate plugged in as thoroughly to the culture of corruption as the rest of the field seems to be.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. I agree with his anti-war stance but I don't support him

[LeftishBrit]

32. 'Who would you rather have running the Republican Party, the neo-cons or Ron Paulites?'

Neither. Or whichever is most likely to lose.

[cali]

37. neither. that's an impossible choice.

ron paul's policies, like the neocons, if put into practice, would be murderous.

[SharkSquid]

45. How so

Oh do tell.

[cali]

49. you mean how are Paul's policies murderous if they actually

were enacted?

[LeftishBrit]

61. For example, his policies would let people die if they couldn't afford medical care.

A lot of poor people, especially children and the elderly, would die of malnutrition and disease if all social safety nets were withdrawn, in the way that Paul recommends.

Yes, I agree with you - murderous policies! I don't understand how anyone who is left-of-centre can support him? Do they only concentrate on his anti-war stance and that is it?

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. My crazy neighbor has a Ron Paul sign in his yard

After 9/11, he had a sign that said 'UNITED WE STAND'. Then in 2004, 'BUSH - CHENEY' and a couple years ago he had a 'US OUT OF UN' sign.

Seeing he was supporting Ron Paul was really all I needed to know. :crazy:

[DaveinMD]

10. he believes

the south was right in the civil war.

[Win]

12. Calling Paulites names

only adds to their power. Especially calling them kooks or nuts. Why? Because they are not either - they know it and so do we.

They are fed up with big govt and our party is not giving them any alternative, but Paul does. The tax issue is big with them because they are tired of Washington taking their money and wasting it. Aren't we all. Could you spend you tax dollars better than Washingto does? You know you could.

But if you want to start calling names then start with powerless - thats what any group is to try to stop their fanatic support of Paul. I think he is emerging as a front-runner and we need to understand that.

Face it - candidates that you or I would never ever vote for do sometimes get elected ... like Bush ... both of them. Remember Nixon.

And Patrick, As for your son and his interest in Alex Jones ... you should be glad. I think Alex is right most of the time and I'm an over 60 veteran. If you haven't listened to his show or checked his website you should. Then when you talk with your son you can both have common ground. Today he has a great set of videos about the Kennedy assassination putting the death squarely in Bush Sr's lap and the death of John John in the bloody hands of W. I think if you see those you will see that Alex Jones has some important things to say that should not be dismissed with name calling and refusal to listen on our parts.

I'm open minded. That's why I'm a Democrat.

[SharkSquid]

20. Outstanding post Win

So true, we always assume the "fringe" on the other side are kooks and nuts but those who were followers of Sen Wellstone and Dennis are not nuts, how DARE they call us that!

Everyone sees the problems of today with different solutions, what is important about RP supporters is that they see the problems too instead of ignoring them.

[Ishoutandscream2]

23. My open mindedness ends

when a candidate wants to end safety nets for the poor. It ends when a candidate is against a woman's right to choose. It ends when a candidate espouses racist views toward African Americans. That's why I'm a Democrat.

[SharkSquid]

26. Well good for you

If you werent a Democrat you would be banned faster than Ron Paul runs away from black people.

You want a cookie?

[Ishoutandscream2]

29. Have you read his remarks?

Yes, chocalate chip.

So, what's your point (sobeing a Democrat is accepting the positions of a Ron Paul?) No way, no way. And if someone here subscribes to his positions, then there is no way he/she can be a Democrat.

Want some more whisky? Your acceptance of someone like Paul has to be alcohol induced.

[SharkSquid]

30. No and I dont know how you could even think that was my position

Unless you have been hitting the bottle yourself

but enough with ad hominem theater

I said that a progressive should not accept RP's solutions to the nations problems, the point is that HE HAS ACTUALLY IDENTIFIED AND ACKNOWLEDGED the nation has deep systemic problems which need fixing. that is huge.

[LeftishBrit]

33. Many peopel have 'identified and acknowledged' that their countries had deep systemic problems that

needed fixing.

Hitler did. So did Stalin. On a much less extreme, but still baleful, level, so did Thatcher and Reagan.

The question is not just whether you acknowledge that such problems exist and need fixing, but *what* you think the problems are, and *what* you think needs to be done about it.

I hadn't heard of Paul till I came to DU. Then I looked at his website, and was shocked.
This is from a speech that he made a few years ago, that is still on his website so presumably represents his current policies - AARRRGGGHHHH!!!



'A Republic, If You Can Keep It
Dr. Ron PaulU.S. Representative from Texas

Address to the U.S. House of Representativesdelivered on the Floor of the House January 31 - February 2, 2000

....The modern-day welfare state has steadily grown since the Great Depression of the 1930s. The federal government is now involved in providing health care, houses, unemployment benefits, education, food stamps to millions, plus all kinds of subsidies to every conceivable special-interest group. Welfare is now part of our culture, costing hundreds of billions of dollars every year. It is now thought to be a "right," something one is "entitled" to. Calling it an "entitlement" makes it sound proper and respectable and not based on theft. Anyone who has a need, desire, or demand and can get the politicians' attention will get what he wants, even though it may be at the expense of someone else. Today it is considered morally right and politically correct to promote the welfare state. Any suggestion otherwise is considered political suicide.
.


....Controlled curricula have downplayed the importance of our constitutional heritage while indoctrinating our children, even in kindergarten, with environmental mythology, internationalism, and sexual liberation. Neighborhood schools in the early part of the 20th Century did not experience this kind of propaganda.

....It is now accepted that people who need (medical) care are entitled to it as a right. This is a serious error in judgment.

...Probably the most significant change in attitude that occurred in the 20th Century was that with respect to life itself. Although abortion has been performed for hundreds if not thousands of years, it was rarely considered an acceptable and routine medical procedure without moral consequence. Since 1973 abortion in America has become routine and justified by a contorted understanding of the right to privacy. The difference between American's rejection of abortions at the beginning of the century, compared to today's casual acceptance, is like night and day. Although a vocal number of Americans express their disgust with abortion on demand, our legislative bodies and the courts claim that the procedure is a constitutionally protected right, disregarding all scientific evidence and legal precedents that recognize the unborn as a legal living entity deserving protection of the law. Ironically the greatest proponents of abortion are the same ones who advocate imprisonment for anyone who disturbs the natural habitat of a toad.

....The welfare system has mocked the concept of marriage in the name of political correctness, economic egalitarianism, and hetero-phobia.


....Any academic discussion questioning the wisdom of our policies surrounding World War II is met with shrill accusations of anti-Semitism and Nazi lover. No one is even permitted without derision by the media, the university intellectuals, and the politicians to ask why the United States allied itself with the murdering Soviets and then turned over Eastern Europe to them...'


I am not open-minded about people who have such indescribably evil views as those listed above. Especially if they could get into power.

[SharkSquid]

44. Misguided yes

Evil? Um ok...

[LeftishBrit]

60. I think that trampling on the poor and sick is pretty evil, yes.

Especially when combined with homophobic and anti-choice rants.

And the concept that it might have been better to let Hitler win WW2 than have the Americans form an alliance with the Soviets.

Would you call Bush and Cheney merely 'misguided'?

[nightrider767]

31. Amen Brother

n/t

[cali]

39. don't let your brains fall out.

being open minded about virtually every kooky thing is not a whit better when it comes to assessing information and making good decisions than being close minded.

Paul is a marginal little man, and many of his supporters are cult like and marginal themselves. Paul is not remotely approaching front runner status. It's mind boggling that you think he even has a chance to do so.

and btw, I'm not a believer in dismantling the gov't.

[SharkSquid]

48. Thanks for that

I dont think I ever accused you of that, did I?

[w8liftinglady]

54. I met a lot of Ron Paul supporters at our Repub straw poll protest

Say what you want about Paul.His supporters are eager to discuss the issues,and seem well informed-much more than many Democrats I talk to these days(away from DU,of course).Sure-their ideology is different from ours,but they have done a far superior job of getting their message out.Like I said in an earlier post-you just have to search Ron Paul on Cafepress to see the vast propaganda machine at work-and very artistic,creative,and-well-COOL t-shirts-just what appeals to the 18-21 year olds.Democrats better watch out...18-24 year olds are paying attention...their collective asses are on the line.We have become guilty of crucifying our party by infighting,and CNN et al are more than happy to report it.Where is OUR unifying message?

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. Excellent point

Democrats absolutely DO need to pay attention to the Ron Paul revolution. And paying attention to the groundswell of support for him does not mean we are supporting him.

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. OT, but are you talking about the Repub straw poll in Texas?

I had some Camp Casey friends there. Sounds like it was a great time.

[w8liftinglady]

81. Yes-I was there with Veterans for Peace

[wtmusic]

79. Ron Paul has something that none of our candidates do

and that is individuality. I agree with very little he says but he is not a bootlicker, when pretty much everyone else in politics is.

[GoneOffShore]

71. Welcome ... But ... Ron and his buddies are INDEED BAT SHIT CRAZY!

They aren't liberals, they aren't progressives!!


They ARE, and watch this VERY CAREFULLY, THEY ARE......... FUCKING FASCISTS!!!!

HAVE YOU GOT THAT!!!!

[wtmusic]

78. I want Washington to take more of my money

and spend it where it needs to be spent. NOLA, AIDS, infrastructure, healthcare, education, environment..the list goes on.

I want them to take more of your money too. Because my money isn't enough, and we all benefit from all the things I listed above.

Maybe you could spend your tax dollars better on things that benefit you. But the "everyone for themselves" ethos is running the US into the ground.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Islander Expat]

82. What an eloquent post, a breath of sensible fresh air.

thank you

[trumad]

85. Adds to their power.... sanrf

The Paulites are a bunch of dumb ass dweebs who stick their thumbs in the air on a dialy bases. Fuck those idiots.

[Solar_Power]

13. His supporters raised an incredible amount of money for a fringe candidate

see http://ronpaulgraphs.com/index.html

[Solar_Power]

14. Ron Paul supporters are planning a $10 million money bomb day

on Dec 16

http://www.teaparty07.com/

[gateley]

19. So is Dennis, I think -- on the 15th if I'm not mistaken. I hope Dennis

succeeds and in principal I hope Ron Paul does too, I guess.

[stillcool]

15. Living in Massachusetts..

there have been endless Ron Paul ads on my music station, and they are starting to really piss me off. Especially when the woman says.."He's a doctor,..so he knows how to fix the health care mess." I can't help but think of Dr. Frist. His stance on abortion doesn't jive either..for someone who wants no intrusion of government into individuals lives. I think anyone who espouses smaller government without reference to major changes in corporate law, is advocating serfdom.

[SharkSquid]

16. His stance on abortion is that the fed govt has no stance

He is personally opposed to abortion.

[cali]

41. bullshit. fucking enough of your crap about how great Paul is.

Paul has sponsored both legislation declaring life begins at CONCEPTION (no morning after pill, and maybe no bc pills at all) and a fucking Constitutional Amendment encoding that position in the Constitution. Fuck that. I believe you must be a guy.

[SharkSquid]

17. Ha how dare he spend all that money on ads

Alot of commercials are annoying that why I dont listen to them.

[stillcool]

25. Not how dare he....more how dare they!!

this is my favorite 'independent' music station...no news...and I've never been attacked by political ads coming through this particular wave length..I've conceded the television..I've suspended reading all the non-fiction PR 'true' stories..I'm limiting my perusal of the internet..I want my tunes left alone. It's sacrilege!

[rug]

18. I wondered where the LaRouchies ended up.

[Justitia]

21. LOL - I just said almost the same thing on another thread! Shades of Lyndon LaRouche. -eom

[blondeatlast]

34. Yup, and just as slavishly devotional, too. LOL! nt

[doc03]

24. I have been seeing lots of Ron Paul signs in Ohio

lately, there are dozens of them around the mall. He seems to attract the old Ross Perot crowd.

[SharkSquid]

27. Mostly the same group

but there are an ass-ton of 9-11 Truthers in there too.

[Perry Logan]

35. His demography seems to be alienated white males who think all government is evil.

Ron Paul would have lost New Orleans, too.

[mmonk]

36. Libertarianism is the flavor de jure because we don't appear

to be offering anything much different than the republicans in the eyes of these people. It's the Ralph Nader movement of the right. The big problem is think tanks of course such as the libertarian Cato Institute.

[Orsino]

42. Cut-and-run conservatives...

...want to give up and say that government itself is the problem, fantasizing that a country can govern itself without any of what Da Prez calls "hard work." They'd rather slouch toward oblivion than admit that the country requires oversight, and can't just leave everything up to Daddy.

[Orsino]

40. Don't forget the racist/xenophobe appeal.

The only advertising for Paul I've encountered are the spots on XM radio. They either focus solely on illegal immigration as America's worst problem, or I'm changing stations before they can move on to any other issues.

On XM radio, though, Paul seems at least primarily to be working the Hatred of Meskins vote.

[SharkSquid]

50. I am going to stop here

Lest I continue to be accused of being a member of the RP camapign.

[cali]

51. too late. in thread after thread you've done more than

defend him; you've applauded him, throwing in a word about how you're not for him, as if to deflect.

[SharkSquid]

53. Your detective skills are admirable

I AM A PAUL SUPPORTER PLEASE BAN ME!!!!!

:sarcasm:

[Ishoutandscream2]

62. Yes, I believe you are correct

I was going to say it, but wanted to end the war of words last night. How anyone can "applaud" him for bringing so called important issues to the table is beyond me. The man is nuts, and wants to destroy everything that is progressive. He is a Norquist wannabe.

[SharkSquid]

67. Reading Assignment

I refer to Post 47 and will not post again. I wish to end the war of word here too.

[Orsino]

55. It's not possible to defend him on this point, anyway.

Best not even to try.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Orsino]

68. Ah. So the "n" word is out, but the "r" word is in.

I believe I understand.

Have a pleasant evening.

[SharkSquid]

72. Sorry

I didnt realize that was a no no, my sincere apologies i let my emotion get the best of me, I am not a big fan of being accused of supporting racism.

And I did have a pleasant evening, thank you, UF spanked FSU always a good day.

[lonestarnot]

46. I berate one daily on my way home. He hides behind his sign when he sees me coming.

tee hee.

[blogslut]

52. Ron Paul is just a new version of Ross Perot

Batshit crazy, good at sound bites and able to press at least one hot button. I dig that he's in the repub race because he frustrates the other guys and he might even get enough delegates to split their ticket.

[Hosnon]

63. Has anyone else seen the "R'evol'ution" signs?

"Evol" is in caps and the letters are backwards. The intent, I assume, is to emphasize "love", which, in my opinion, seems to have very little to do with Ron Paul.

In any event, all I see when I look at the signs is "evol" (evil). My brain sees that immediately.

[femrap]

64. And he's big on 'state's rights...'

That is some kind of code phrase for 'put the women in the kitchen.' His voting record is very anti-choice. Just another women hater to me...which those angry white males love to vote for.

[question everything]

65. And I have to wonder how many DUers

have contributed to his campaign.

Talk about cutting one's nose, etc.

[DeepModem Mom]

69. K&R

[GeneCosta]

70. Exchanging one set of masters for another

No thanks. I'll stick with anarcho-communism.

[IronLionZion]

73. Do you have any idea how much I HATE the way the gov. spends my money?

I can't even begin to describe my feelings about the Iraq war, defense spending, corporate welfare and subsidies, windfalls for big oil and pharma, etc. without getting very angry.

As much as I hate the corporations, I at least have the choice of whether to do business with them or not. Big government includes big Republican neocon Bush-type government. Those folks you spoke to have a point...and it's good to have them supporting Paul in the primaries. I for one am glad Paul is running because it turns the GOP's world upside down. It's nice to have a different voice and different opinions on the Repub side. It will do their party some good to think once in a while.

All we do every day since Bush took office is complain about how he is destroying our country, wasting our money, killing our people, and taking away our civil liberties. How the hell can educated liberals laugh at someone for expressing the opinion that government can be bad? Can't you see the irony in that?

It's so easy to laugh at other people. Stupid/crazy is like having an accent or being eccentric; it's what someone ELSE is.

[IronLionZion]

74. The Repub govt. takes your money and gives it to corporations

in no-bid contracts, subsidies, bailouts, and sweetheart deals and unfair regulations. The only choice you have in the matter is choosing the politicians who will make those decisions. It's important that if you accept that basic fact then you next need to notice the irony in the premise of your argument.

[Le Taz Hot]

75. After that first Republican debate,

there were Ron Paul bumper stickers all over the place around here. And not only bumper stickers -- freeway signs, make-shift signs on cars (including the shoe polish signs). I haven't seen any other Republican bumper stickers. I'm seeing "Ron Paul" signs everywhere. It's just too weird.

[philosophie_en_rose]

83. They remind me of scientologists advertising 'personality tests.'

Best to avoid eye contact and back away slowly.

[dailykoff]

84. So what will they do when they retire or become disabled

or when their retired parents require expensive medical interventions? Buy a gun? These guys need to turn off their freakin' AM radios.