for those of us that don't care for the top candidates.

[zonmoy]

what are your plans after the actual progressive candidates are beaten by the corporate puppets. do you plan like myself to try to choose between the greens or another third party or not even bothering to vote. or are you going to try to vote for the corporate candidate.

[skipos]

1. Your plan is AWESOME! Nader 2000 was GREAT for America! Let's do it again!

:woohoo:

[zonmoy]

4. even better than gore

throwing in the towel on an obviously rigged election. gore did as much to help the crooks by not fighting them tooth and nail in their rigging of the elections.

[Uncle Joe]

23. Al Gore fought that disputed election longer than other candidate in United States history had

ever fought an election.

[zonmoy]

24. To me if someone fixes an election and I am

the candidate that was cheated. I would never have conceded. I would have called the election a fraud. and done what I could to have brought down the crooks that took over.

[Uncle Joe]

25. And that would've been what

to have brought the crooks down?

[zonmoy]

26. everything possible.

brought every bit of evidence of not only their election fraud but every criminal conspiracy afterwords that they committed including 9/11. continue dogging them until they either have to kill me to shut me up or until the country rises up to stop them.

[Uncle Joe]

28. That would've been the equivalent of a tree falling in the forest with no one there to hear it.

The corporate media had already been slandering and libeling Al Gore for well over two years prior to the selection of 2000. The primary reason Bush came close enough to steal it was because the media had been trashing Al Gore's credibility at least since March of 99, ie: Al Gore claimed to have invented the Internet, Al Gore claimed to have discovered Love Canal, etc. etc.

The selection of 2000 had been centered on the issue of integrity and Al Gore was made out to be the serial liar, while Bush was the one the media claimed would "restore honor and integrity to the White House". The media parroted, the Republican "Sore-Loserman" meme after weeks of this dispute. There is a law of diminishing returns and I believe Al Gore rightfully saw the writing on the wall.

Even though Al Gore accepted the Supreme Court decision, he didn't stop fighting for the American People. Al Gore gave eloquent speeches against the folly of going to war with Iraq and how that could hurt the war against terrorism, the Cheney/Bush policies of torture, the shredding of the Constitution, the Unitary Executive theory the neocons embrace, which is just another word for fascism. Usually when he gave these speeches, he was ignored by the corporate media, or the millionaire pundits would say he was just ranting.

Al Gore has worked his whole life to give the American People the tools to fight against this very same dysfunctional one way megaphone corporate media and their brain washing propaganda, first when he championed opening up the Internet for the people while he was in Congress and as Vice-President and later by bringing about two way Current T.V.

I believe the primary reason the corporate media slandered and libeled Al Gore ie: Al Gore claimed to have invented the Internet" is because he was the primary political champion of this technology, thus empowering the people with a voice of their own without having to go through a media filter and as the Internet grew in power and influence, the corporate media came to resent Al Gore for it. They didn't want a strong advocate of the Internet in the White House, I call this the Prometheus Effect.

[zonmoy]

33. He may have given us the tools to stand against the corporations

but I would have preferred if he had at minimum come out against the true evil of corporate person-hood. get rid of that and all the fascism and corporate media problems will disintegrate. He could be leading the fight to end that instead of going on about global warming which is a problem to a point although I am not sure that it is as big a problem as he thinks since our planet has in the last 10000 years come out of an ice age which would probably result in warming. also the planet has been a lot warmer than this for much of its history. since the ice age that we were in is but a tiny part of the earths history. I think the biggest thing though is that we need to make it so that the corporate puppet candidates cant win in the primary and that actual progressives get into the main race. I think that as long as we keep on having to choose between two corporate controlled candidates we will never make progress and will keep on losing ground.

[Uncle Joe]

40. He has been doing that as well, I would highly recommend

reading "The Assault on Reason", he addresses the subject of corporate person-hood and our dysfunctional media in that best seller.

Regarding global warming, carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere haven't been this high in 650,000 years and it's still going up, and when the frozen tundra areas such as Siberia thaw, all that frozen methane will be released as well, methane has even greater heat trapping characteristics than carbon dioxide. While it's true we've had an ice age as the Earth goes through natural heating and cooling cycles, however that's irrelevant to the larger picture of humankind's impact on our only home in the universe. People may naturally have fevers from time to time but the last thing you want to do is put them under electric blankets in front of a roaring fireplace, when they do. The Earth has only begun to experience the Industrial Revolution in the last 175 years or so, factories belching their by products and literally hundreds of millions of cars doing the same every day, it would be ludicrous to think this doesn't have an adverse affect on the environment we depend on to sustain life as we know it.

[maddiejoan]

2. Why not ask me --

When will I stop beating my children?

[ThomWV]

3. It really does't matter if I have to hold my nose to do it, I'll still vote for the Democrat

It is just that my support for some would be greater than for others and for at least 2 all I'll do is show up and vote.

[Solar_Power]

7. This is why the base is taken for granted and why we get corporate lackeys

all the time

[porphyrian]

5. My primary vote won't count anyway, so I'm having a hard time giving a shit.

If I can't play, fuck what happens.

[burrowowl]

11. Your primary vote counts for delegates to the convention

which supposedly gives them some bargaining power at the convention.

[porphyrian]

14. Not this year, I'm in Florida. -n/t

[graywarrior]

18. Every dem vote counts for something in this godforsaken state.

If just to prove that we are gaining here.

[porphyrian]

30. I applaud your optimism, but our votes in the primaries won't mean a damn thing.

If simply being on record makes you feel better, good for you. I'm already on record with my opinion here, so that doesn't make me feel any better about my vote being rendered useless by a bunch of idiots, panderers and bureaucrats who, in their defense, are at least finally being honest about the fact that they don't give a fuck about me or my opinion beyond my ability to give them money.

[graywarrior]

34. Hey, I hear ya.

I just need to find some good reason why I live in this state.

[porphyrian]

37. I love everything around Tallahassee but about half of the people.

Unfortunately, I really hate them. And the humidity. Actually, I'll take the humidity over that half of the people.

[snot]

6. My advice those who reply:

why give the game away. They think we have nowhere else to go. Let them sweat a little and ponder whether they might need to care what we want.

[EFerrari]

35. I like that, snot. Sounds like a plan to me. n/t

[Ytzak]

8. Holding you nose and voting for the least of evils is Corporate lie

You vote in your best interest.

Analyze the candidates that have a chance of winning. (Third party candidates are spoilers within our system.)

Which candidate most closely aligns with your values, aspirations, and hopes. Which candidate will push policies that are closest to yours. One will always come out at least a hair better than the other.

As for me, it is not in my interest to help a Republican win. My best interest, at this time in the history of the US and my own personal history, will only be served by a Democrat. It doesn't matter who that is.

In the Primary, I am torn between Edwards and Kucinich. But in the general election, it will be the Democratic nominee, because my best interests and the best interests of the nation as I see them will not be served by the Republicans.

[zonmoy]

12. How has your plan been working.

are the democrats or republicans getting closer to your your policies or are they moving farther away.

[Ytzak]

19. Yes. The Democrats advocate polices of which I approve and have tried to enact them.

They have tried to end the war, but remain unsuccessful because of the way the Constitution requires the system to work. The Constitution doesn't make it easy for the Congress to override a Veto.

They have moved to assert their own separate but equal power rather than lay down for the President like a gay prostitute.

They voted for S-Chip, twice. The President vetoed it twice. This will play very well for candidates that are friendlier to my ideas, even in solid Republican districts, because S-Chip is a program that served the middle class.

The are advocating some form of national health care. They won't begin to be discussed realistically until 2009, but that is more than any Republican will do.

They have actually investigated the executive branch. Would Gonzo have been questioned by Republican Congress until he went home to spend more time with his family? The attorney firings would never have been an issue at all. Their move not to pass a supplemental funding bill as demanded by Bush was a good one.

If I compare the current House and Senate to that of the Republicans between 2000 and 2006, the Democrats win hands down.

Have they done everything I want. No, but this is not a perfect world. They are more aligned with my values, hopes, and aspirations than any Republican. I will say that the Best possible Republican Candidate now would be worse than the worst possible Democratic Candidate.

With a wider majority, and a Democratic President, they will move to do things that fit more in my interest. Even Hillary Clinton, bless her little corporatist heart, will pursue domestic policies that are more attuned with what I want if she ascends the Imperial thrown.

Even Ron Paul, the only Republican against the war, would be a disaster when it comes to any progressive domestic policies. His tax policies are worse than Bush. He opposes any government program, such as Medicare, S-Chip, and Social Security, with even greater force that Bush. In the issue of the War, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. But he would be a colossal mistake as a President in every other way. His policy on the Liberty Dollar raid is proof of why the man should not be allowed in a position to determine monetary policy. Having competing currencies in the United States where any private company that has a mind could mint money is Corporatism that would have made Mussolini proud. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhWRDP8v9ss "I want competing currencies."

So any Republican will stand solidly against my Values, Beliefs, and Aspirations. It is against my best interest in this election to vote for one.

[zonmoy]

22. ok so lets go through your claims.

"They have tried to end the war, but remain unsuccessful because of the way the Constitution requires the system to work. The Constitution doesn't make it easy for the Congress to override a Veto."

all they have to do to end the war is to rescind their authorization for it. why haven't they done that? I don't think bush can veto that. they also have the power to refuse to fund the war. why haven't they done that? bush cant veto that.

"They have moved to assert their own separate but equal power rather than lay down for the President like a gay prostitute."

exactly how have they done that. by refusing to impeach him and hold him accountable for his crimes. or by refusing to do anything to stop his authoritarian laws and war plans.

"They voted for S-Chip, twice. The President vetoed it twice. This will play very well for candidates that are friendlier to my ideas, even in solid Republican districts, because S-Chip is a program that served the middle class."

Kind of weak doing that which they know they couldn't get past his veto while not doing anything to hold him to account for his crimes.

"The are advocating some form of national health care. They won't begin to be discussed realistically until 2009, but that is more than any Republican will do."

this might actually be the one halfway decent thing that they are doing if they are really serious about it.

"They have actually investigated the executive branch. Would Gonzo have been questioned by Republican Congress until he went home to spend more time with his family? The attorney firings would never have been an issue at all. Their move not to pass a supplemental funding bill as demanded by Bush was a good one."

seems to me that they are doing the bare minimum to look like they are doing something in that area since they can do so much more.


If I compare the current House and Senate to that of the Republicans between 2000 and 2006, the Democrats win hands down.

On that I would agree. although every democratic government that had a opposition party had that right up till the point that democracy ended in those countries.

"Have they done everything I want. No, but this is not a perfect world. They are more aligned with my values, hopes, and aspirations than any Republican. I will say that the Best possible Republican Candidate now would be worse than the worst possible Democratic Candidate."

Your right its not a perfect world which means that not only do we have to hold the re-pukes to account but the democrats as well for their parts of what happened.

"With a wider majority, and a Democratic President, they will move to do things that fit more in my interest. Even Hillary Clinton, bless her little corporatist heart, will pursue domestic policies that are more attuned with what I want if she ascends the Imperial thrown."

but will she do anything to slow down the march to fascism that I and many others are seeing in both major parties.

"Even Ron Paul, the only Republican against the war, would be a disaster when it comes to any progressive domestic policies. His tax policies are worse than Bush. He opposes any government program, such as Medicare, S-Chip, and Social Security, with even greater force that Bush. In the issue of the War, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. But he would be a colossal mistake as a President in every other way. His policy on the Liberty Dollar raid is proof of why the man should not be allowed in a position to determine monetary policy. Having competing currencies in the United States where any private company that has a mind could mint money is Corporatism that would have made Mussolini proud. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhWRDP8v9ss "I want competing currencies.""

hate to tell you this but a private company already mints all the money. who do you think actually owns and runs the federal reserve.


"So any Republican will stand solidly against my Values, Beliefs, and Aspirations. It is against my best interest in this election to vote for one."

on that I agree. the problem is that every election the democrats become more like the republicans as the republicans become even more like the combination of fascism and theocracy than they already are. to put it quite simply we are losing ground on progressive values, not gaining it.

[Ytzak]

38. Some points.

In order to rescind authorization they have to pass a bill in the house and Senate, then have the President sign it. (I was arguing this over a year ago on another website but investigation shows that it can't happen.) Also, it doesn't end the war. The Congress did not approve the Korean war at all, we went on on UN approval. So how exactly does that beat the Republican roadblock? If Republican's aren't willing to put limits on Bush, why would they be willing to outright end the war and why would Bush sign such a bill.

They have asserted their own powers by investigating the Executive and by moving to change the agenda. This is one of the primary jobs that the Republican did not assert.

No, they haven't impeached him. However, since it would take a 2/3 vote in the Senate, 66 votes, No Impeachment would be successful. Since impeachment is a trial, and the President would be tried, it is likely anything that he was found not guilty of would invoke double jeopardy rules. So he could not be tried again. So, since impeachment will fail absolutely, and the President would likely be left free of any possible future prosecution, why go through the process. A lot of Democrats would be happy to see an impeachment, but it will simply fail as Republican's will not vote to remove him from office.

Now as for Hillary. Between her and any Republican, which will be likely to do anything to stop the march to fascism? We Know the Republicans will not. As a Democrat with a Democratic congress, I am willing to give her a chance, and unwilling to allow the Republican's any chance at all. As I see it, any Republican in office runs counter to my interests and the nations interest. They have proved that. Hillary will also have the Democrats and they will move on agenda items that I find important, education, health care, energy reform, etc. Also, she has to be nominated, and that is by no means a sure thing.

One civilian company mints the money, but it works under laws set down by the government. Ron Paul is advocating competing currencies and ending any laws that put control over that currency. A dozen companies would mint money without oversight. Ron Paul is a corporatist just like the present Junta. He is opposed to the rights of privacy for women. He certainly is a strict constructionist and would put such on the Supreme Court. He would advocate an end to social security. He voted against S-Chip and Medicare. He has even opposed public education. What is it other than opposition to the war makes him attuned to my interests as a liberal and a progressive.

In an election we still only have 2 choices. After years, the greens have a couple of mayors and one state representative. They don't even manage to win enough in national elections to win electoral votes. They are pathetic and poorly organized. (Here in California conservatives trying to build a wall to keep all those people form coming in from Mexico have tried twice to take over the party. Greens are worse than pathetic.)

After a lot longer, libertarians are in even worse shape than Greens. Thats because, the majority of the party tends to vote for the general corporatist Republican agenda.

I am a realist that, at this time, am not ready to take up arms against my government. If I am not willing to overthrow the government using the same logic as the founding fathers used in the Declaration of Independence, then I must work within the system to move it incrementally in the direction I think it needs to go.

Voting for a Republican gets me and this nation nothing. Voting for a Democrat will, at minimum, move the country a small bit back in the leftward direction. You are correct about holding Democrats accountable. However, since the only way to hold a party accountable is to remove it from power, are you ready to put Republicans back in power? In our winner take all systems there is, at this time, no other choice. There are a lot of pissed off liberals and progressives here, but there are not enough of us to move in mass and bring some third party to power, even if we could agree on someone who can chew gum and walk at the same time. And herding everybody to one party would be much harder than herding cats to a Rottweiler convention.

Beyond that, historical forces are moving to change the nature of the game. Iraq has been our Afghanistan, and like the Soviets, we will no leave as a Super Power. Our ability to influence other nations is all but gone. They are looking to the rising powers of China, India, and the European union. Our industrial power is in ruins. Peak oil is here, and as the leading nation that relies on Oil as the heart blood of our civilization, we will be devastated by this. It will take at least a decade to switch our economy over to a different system. And there is no easy replacement for oil. We will have to develop a dozen or so technologies to take oils place and build a whole new infrastructure to use it. The middle class shrinks by the day. The reserve status of the US dollar, that has placed us in a unique position economically, is evaporating, and will most likely be gone by the time the next President is sworn in.

The next President will face these challenges and will transition us frombelief in the myth that we are an exceptional nation created by God as a city on the hill to lead the world out of the wilderness of tyranny and injustice to just another country. That will be devastating to the American psyche to divorce us of our fantasy, and long overdue. I simply don't trust the Republicans with that kind of power. They have pissed away much easier jobs. Hell, look at what they did in Afghanistan.

So yes, I will vote for a Democrat in the general election because it is in my interest to do so and against my interest to help a Republican be elected even by so much as one vote. If I vote for the nominated Democrat, it will take 1 Republican to cancel out my vote and second voter to count to their good. Voting for a third party or no one at all is pissing my vote away helping the Republican to win. That runs counter to my best interests. As a nation, we must move back to the left. Only a Democrat will do that.

[undeterred]

9. I'm moving to another planet with Dennis and Elizabeth.

Make fun all you want. The Kucinichians will establish a utopian paradise. O8)

[Didereaux]

10. Fine, take the 'Jackass' logo along with you!

[blues90]

13. I am still waiting to see who is picked for us

Then I can decide who to vote for . I will have to hold my nose if it is anyone other than Kucinich .

Look how Kerry suddenly shot out of nowhere but then the black boxes took care of that didn't they . And these damn things are still a threat . Greg Palast talked about this today on Millers show . Caging is still alive and well .

This entire thing makes me sick inside where we can't get the truth and our Dem majority sits on their hands .

I can't imagine Rudy even running but then most people don't know what he is all about .

Big money has the control , we are just pawns in a big game and that is what sickens me .

I also heard today that in the first 100 hours of the 110th congress that Waxman was supposed to take up the Sibel Edmonds case and has ignored it , this can from Brad Blog .

Don't you sort of feel like your lost in the wilderness ?

[zonmoy]

15. your talking to a guy that thinks that putting up signs

every few feet on the border saying "abandon all hope ye who enter here" is a good idea and telling the truth about our country.

[dysfunctional press]

16. i'll vote in those races wher i can actually support the candidate on the ballot.

in the races where i can't, i'll abstain from voting.

[zonmoy]

20. unfortunately

that is not always an option. we have optical scan ballots in my district. you have to vote for every race or it rejects your ballot.

[dysfunctional press]

21. we have that too- but you aren't required to vote in every race...

when your ballot is rejected, you have the option of "correcting it" or casting it as is.

you should talk to someone in your precinct- there's no way that they can FORCE you to vote in every race- it's not legal.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

17. talk about learning nothing from history

:eyes:

[pinto]

27. While I understand political disagreement with some Democratic candidates,

this website remains democraticunderground. From our membership guidelines:

Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office. Democratic Underground is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, and comments posted here are not representative of the Democratic Party or its candidates.

Personally, regardless of our differences as Democrats - what else is new - *one* compelling argument to support our eventual presidential candidate is simply the possibility of appointing a number of Supreme Court justices, supported by our majorities in Congress.

Given the possibility of a large Democratic sweep in '08, I think it's worth the effort, for local, state and federal positions.

[JerseygirlCT]

29. I am a Democrat.

I will not vote for a third party candidate.

Not this time.

Not now.

Taking back the White House and improving our control in Congress is just too, too important right now for empty symbolic gestures.

Any of the Democrats is better than anything else out there right now.

And there is far too much at stake to play around with this.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. I'll be voting for the most progressive, anti-war candidate on the ballot.

Even if I have to write one in.

[Jackpine Radical]

32. I will vote for a Green

right after someone drowns the Republican Party in a bathtub.

Until then, I'm stuck with Democrats.

[Le Taz Hot]

36. I'll probably write in a name.

I can't not vote as there are too many other issues I want to vote on; however, I refuse to hold my nose and vote ever again. I won't vote Republican but I will look at ALL other parties. If I can't find anyone I like, I'll write in the name of the person I think should be president.

[mmonk]

39. My concentration will be beating Sen. Dole

and getting democratic judges on the courts and getting as many democrats on our state legislature. As far as the presidential race goes, I'm gonna let that one play out and see who wins the primary. I will admit I have great difficulty if the winner is Clinton, but something like a Guiliani presidency is very scary and must not be allowed. Democracy returning (or a constitutional framework for government) is going to be dependent on NGO's and activism if the democratic party is not going to address the crimes against us by the bush administration or restore the system while they are powerful enough. Corporate rule will eventually take us down.

[Raine]

41. I will leave the presidential spot blank nt