My Grandmother passed this week.

[Emit]

Bless her. She was 98 and it was her time to go.

My Nephew just called. He's a born again Christian. My Grandmother was Mormon.

He called to tell me that he was very concerned about attending the service in the Mormon church because of his own religious beliefs. He confided in me that he felt very uncomfortable going because of what the Bishop might preach. He is not allowing his children to attend. His wife is reluctant to attend.

I suggested to him that he not be so afraid of another's religion, or to be offended, that we all have a right to our beliefs. I suggested that he should have an open mind about others' religious beliefs. He said his is not a religion but 'the truth,' and suggested that I study the scripture. I thanked him for his offer, but stated that I had no interest in doing so. He argued saying that if I just studied the bible every day that I would find the truth, that God has a plan for us and how could I live my life without knowing that plan that Jesus and God has for me? And, that Grandma would not be saved because she did not adhere to Jesus Christ our Savior.

He then went on to say that the Mormon religion believed Jesus walked with the devil.

I am very upset because this is about my Grandmother's passing -- it's about her wishes as a Mormon to have her family, none of which are Mormon, btw, to attend her services at her church.

He's afraid. He's afraid to walk into the Mormon church.

He said much more, and I won't even elaborate. I tried to reason with him. I really didn't want to argue with him and it was hard to hold my tongue. I really feel it was poor timing on his part and very selfish to say the least.

My post is personal, but, just thought I'd share a bit of this family drama because this fanatical religious stuff has infested my own family. He's a huge Bush supporter. We've never really talked politics much, thankfully, and this is the first time that I experienced the depths of his cultish beliefs (aside from the time he wouldn't let his children play Harry Potter X Box with my kids). My mind is spinning still.

[alarimer]

1. I am sorry

It's hard to have family members that are so closed-minded.

This is what gets me about fundamentalists: If their faith is so strong and what they believe is the truth, then why are they so threatened by others' beliefs?

But maybe it is better he does not go to the funeral; he might decide to tell everyone that your grandmother is going to hell because she did not have his beliefs.

[Emit]

11. Thanks

"If their faith is so strong and what they believe is the truth, then why are they so threatened by others' beliefs?"

That's exactly what kept going through my mind when I suffered through this conversation with him -- and I so wanted to ask him that very question.

But, it's just not the right time to get into it with him on that level. Despite his proselytizing me, it just didn't feel right challenging him with that approach. I wanted to, but I was careful with my words, and tried to stick with reason. How can I reason with a person, though, who thinks his beliefs are the truth and nothing anyone else says matters? It's just :crazy: I was dumbfounded.

[babylonsister]

2. May your grandma rest in peace. The rest is just

superfluous, and not really something you 'have' to deal with. But you are not being the hard ass on this, your nephew is. Shut him off/down, and do what granny wanted. He will be the loser. I think you are a kind person who would love to include the family, but that cannot always happen.

How does the rest of the family feel?

I say, whatever granny wanted, granny gets!

[Emit]

12. Granny wanted chocolate pie.

Probably not the best thing to bring to a Mormon reception, but, darn it, it was her favorite and that's what we're bringing!

I haven't talked with any other family members about this conversation yet, and I won't make a big deal about this before the services -- there's no sense in that, IMHO. We all are aware of his religiosity, but, I'm beginning to realize that we underestimated how much he has bought into his fundamentalist beliefs. It's like he is in a cult -- his behavior, his words tonight -- it's scary. He was like the little brother I never had, as I was only 8 when he was born and he lived with my family for four years. But he is so changed now, I hardly recognize him.

[babylonsister]

14. You are true to yourself; I hope you can corner your nephew and

TALK SOME SENSE INTO HIM! Barring that, be true to yourself. And as for cults, I've known military women who have given up family, including children, to join those cults and discount their husbands. It's been going on for some time. To me, it's scary.

[Emit]

37. On the bright side, I can be sure he won't be voting for Mitt.

:evilgrin:

Thanks again for your support, babylonsister. :hi:

[MrMickeysMom]

3. Sorry, Emit... I can relate to this, though...

First, your grandmother may have posthumously done him a favor, but it may take years for him to come to terms on this. There is a very good chance that the uncomfortable pain surrounding what should be a remembrance of your grandmother may be a lesson of life later on. Wisdom comes...

My sister was a born again christian in the 80's and she was so quick then to tell me how all the rest of her family were going to be lost to God because we didn't share her belief.

Since then, many things have transpired. Some quite painful We are both more mature now, and having lost our mother (mom passed at 93 this year), we were able to work things out again. I wished I didn't have to "part ways" from my sister all those years, but the relationship we have now could never have taken place without its preceding events. It's very strange, but parting on those issues made us deal with each other individually. As a result, I think our relationship will heal nicely and florish.

May the same outcome await you.

:hug: MMM

[Emit]

15. Thank you kindly.

Your story makes me ponder what might be on the horizon with me and my nephew. To this point, I have avoided religious discussion with him like it's the plague. It has been easier that way -- frankly, I have just wanted to avoid confrontation. But, I'm not so sure that has been so wise on my part. After this incident tonight, I foresee at some time in the future (I wouldn't do it now, of course, out of respect for my Grandmother and all) that I might be bolder in my conversations with him. It seems my silence with him on this subject has lead him to believe that I approve of his fundamentalism, when in fact, I feel that it has been very harmful for him and his family. I won't seek out confrontation, mind you, but I will not remain silent about my concerns. I hate talking religion with religious people who quote scripture and all. It doesn't suit me -- I have such a lack of knowledge of the bible (even though I own several) that when my teenager needed biblical references for an English paper she was writing, I went out and bought the "Bible for Dummies"! No joke. I just want him to know that I am concerned about his intense religiosity -- I don't want to argue religion with him.

Anyway, thanks again for the kind thoughts and apropos self disclosure.

[seriousstan]

4. Sorry for your loss. I suggest you excuse yourself from these kind of discussions.

"Please forgive me but that is something you are going to have to decide. I have to go." and then say goodbye and hang up. Short and sweet. You could also suggest that he confer with his preacher. Pick one of the other, do not engage in another discussion.

Your Grandmother is what is important. Honor her in your own way. Thank God she had a long and beautiful life.

[Emit]

19. I will excuse myself from these kind of discussions for the time being.

Any further comments or attempts at discussion on his part of this topic before or during my Grandma's services will be met with something akin to what you suggest. I also like the idea of suggesting he confer with his preacher. That's a great one.

In the future, at some much later date, however, I'm afraid I might not be able to hold my tongue, nor should I necessarily. I have genuine concerns for him and his well being, as this fundamentalism isn't serving him well, IMHO. I will likely not be able to change him, of course. But it doesn't mean I can't express an opinion. Thanks for the advice and sentiments.

[never_get_over_it]

5. "I am very upset because this is about my Grandmother's passing "

This is about your Grandmother - and I have to say your nephew is acting disrepectfully and being quite selfish....what a great Christian he is....and what a great example to his children

On edit: I apologize I was so annoyed by your nephew's attitude I forgot to tell you I am very sorry for your loss - but how great she live to 98. I lost my Grandmother when I was 12 which was quite a while ago and I still think of her OFTEN and wish I had had more time with her....

[Emit]

20. No need to apologize -- and thank you for your kind words.

He is acting disrespectfully and being selfish, and I, too, am angry about his hypocrisy in this matter. It only serves to confirm to me that this is not the brand of religion I'd chose, and it pains me that he has chosen this way of thinking.

[Flora]

6. Well, Bless her heart..

98! What changes to the world she has witnessed.

What a shame he thinks his *God* would be so unforgiving for him to attend a loved one's funeral service in a Mormon Church. My thoughts go out to you during this sad and troubling time.

[Emit]

16. Thanks Flora and welcome to DU

:hi:

Before her passing, I was able to discover the details of her trip from Oklahoma to California -- and it's straight out of The Grapes of Wrath! She even described her travels through Arizona, where their whole family, including my dad, picked cotton in order to earn enough money to continue their travels.

She was really into genealogy and my dad recently found a little piece she wrote about her life. We'll each get a book of her genealogy stuff and a copy of that piece.

[saracat]

7. My deepest condolences.I was going to be more diplomatic but your nephew is a selfish ass.

It is better that he not attend.Don't waste breath on him.Maybe someday he will grow up but no one needs his poison permeating what should be a celebration of his Grandmothers life. This is his loss.

[Emit]

18. No need to mince words here.

He was being a selfish ass. That came fully to me but only shortly after I hung up, though. And it was probably best 'cause I might have said things I'd regret if I had fully grasped his selfishness during our discussion. I was just so dumbfounded with his comments -- he had me speechless at times -- not an easy feat. I think that's why I felt so compelled to post on this personal matter -- his selfishness struck me so. His intense religiosity that feeds this selfishness is indicative of many of the problems our society faces currently. Very scary indeed.

[flashl]

8. My condolences to you and your family. n/t

[emilyg]

9. Seems grandma was a lot smarter than nephew. Condolences.

[Emit]

21. Lol. Grandma was a good Democrat, too. n/t

[Ecumenist]

28. So was mine, Emit, So was mine...

:hi: :hug:

[Warpy]

10. He will always regret not saying his goodbyes,

and that's his burden to carry for the rest of his life.

I said my goodbyes to grandparents in the Catholic Church, although I'd long since left any pretense of believing a word of it. It wasn't listening to the rubbish from the priest, who gave every indication of not knowing who either of them were----and they'd been parishoners for over 60 years---but it was the way they wanted us to say our goodbyes. It was respect for them and the people they had been.

It's not about risking hellfire and damnation because you don't agree with what's being said from the pulpit. You're not supposed to agree. You are there to honor the people who came before you and prepared your way.

Not doing so will leave him with deep regrets.

[Emit]

23. You articulate this so well.

"It's not about risking hellfire and damnation because you don't agree with what's being said from the pulpit. You're not supposed to agree. You are there to honor the people who came before you and prepared your way."

When I realized that his main concern was that he thought he would be "risking hellfire and damnation," I literally had one of those WTF? moments. I mean, who in their right mind ... well, never mind. You get it.

Thanks much for articulating what I couldn't but what I hope to one day with him.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. My condolenses

and if your nephew does not want to go to the service, don't insist on it.

His fears may be greater than his need to grief.

And my aunt passed last year, at 85...and it was hard, but not as hard as it would have been if she had been twenty years younger.

[Emit]

25. "His fears may be greater than his need to grief."

Very insightful, nadinbrzezinski. I hadn't thought of it that way until I read your post. I suspect fearful people need this type religiosity to assuage their fears and give them purpose. He did make a comment, "What is it worth living if there is no God to give you purpose?" -- or something like that. I'm thinking, well, if that were the case, should we then not be born with bible in hand -- an instruction manual? But of course, I didn't actually say that to him.

[Suich]

17. I'm sorry for your loss, Emit.

98 years old...wow! Don't worry about your nephew...you're not going to change his beliefs. It's his loss.

I know she's looking forward to that chocolate pie!

:hug:

[Emit]

26. 98 years old and she worked, fulltime, up until just a couple of years ago!

She started to decline rapidly only after she had to give up her work -- talk about a strong work ethic!

She deserves that damned chocolate pie!

Thanks.

[Suich]

29. She sounds like a real pip!

What year was she born? What kind of work did she do?

:)

[Raine]

22. I'm very sorry for your loss

and very sorry that your nephew has chosen to make this about him instead of a departed loved one. I don't think this nephew's attitude is very Christian. He should ask himself what Jesus who do. A real Christian wouldn't be so scared that he couldn't go to another's church and show love and respect for a loved one who has passed on.

[calimary]

24. My condolences.

It's a shame that you have to put up with that batshit crap while you are in mourning.

[Ecumenist]

27. Emit, my Grammy passed this week too. She was 88 years old and left the planet

Monday morning @ 9:30 AM. Grandma Ewey wasn't a Mormon, just a regular and genuinely Christian woman. I have to say that I will always miss her and I love her with all my heart. I want to say that I'm so very sorry that your grandma has such a hard headed knucklehead that only seems intent on making it more difficult for the rest of his family. His grammy passed and the very least he could do is to just show up to pay his respects, for criminy's sake. Is he afraid that he'll spontaneously ignite if he sets foot in a Mormon church?


Anyway, God bless you and comfort you. I'd like to believe that My Grandma Ewey and your grammy are sitting a porch somewhere sharing iced tea* and looking down at their grandchildren who are determined to make sure that there's a livable world to leave for their children and grandchildren when it's their turn to leave the planet.

Edit to add: * and a VERY luscious chocolate pie...

[RFKHumphreyObama]

31. In about one week's time it will be two years since my own grandmother passed away

She was 99 years old and just six months short of being 100. Like your grandmother, she was a very devout Christian in both her words and her deeds and a very loving and sweet person. She overcame remarkable hardships in her life but never lost her sense of humor or her deep and passionate religious faith. Like you, I will always love her and miss her and will always deeply cherish and value beyond words the times we spent together and the many hours we spent together enjoying each other's company, particularly during the last decade of her life.

I'm so very, very sorry for the loss of your grandmother:hug: :hug: My thoughts, prayers, condolences and sympathies go out to your family. I pray that God will be with you and give you comfort and peace through this difficult time and I wish the same for the OP.

I know somewhere our grandmothers and our grandfathers are all looking down on us with love and compassion as we live our lives

[Emit]

36. Oh, Ecumenist...

Bless you! Thank you for that lovely post about your Grandma Ewey -- my condolences. She sounds like a wonderful woman who lived a blessed life.

As for my nephew, "Is he afraid that he'll spontaneously ignite if he sets foot in a Mormon church?"

LOL! It appears so, sadly, and I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around that one.

Thank you for the beautiful picture you've left me, of two (or more) wise old women out on a porch somewhere, looking down at their grandchildren (she has five grandchildren and twelve great grandchildren and two great great grandchildren)... it's very fitting and comforting.

:hug:

[RFKHumphreyObama]

30. My deepest and sincerest thoughts, prayers, condolences and sympathies

go out to your family on the loss of your grandmother. She sounds like a wonderful and remarkable woman and you were fortunate to have had her in your life for so long:hug: :hug:

I'm sorry about your cousin. I hope he can come around and do the right thing

Once again, I'm sorry for your loss:hug: :hug:

[Laurier]

32. Condolences to you, Emit

Don't worry about the nephew, his religion or his politics, though. Instead, celebrate your grandmother's life, mourn her death, pass what she's taught you on to your children (and/or others) and ignore the rest.

She deserves that, and so do you.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

33. Condolences Emit

:hug: :cry:

[laylah]

34. My Gram passed

6 months shy of her 100th but it still hurt. Grams are such special beings, aren't they. My condolences for your loss.

[Window]

35. Someone should tell him it's not about him...but Grandma.

How very selfish.


Condolences to you and yours on the loss of your loved one.



Peace:thumbsup:

[Disturbed]

38. http://www.evilbible.com/

http://www.evilbible.com/

A great reference for debate.

[Whisp]

39. sorry to hear that. My BaBa

died many years ago. She was so into donating what she really couldn't afford into the Catholic church and the preditor thieve priests coming for her gold to save her soul for Jesus... for a mere few dollars more!

[Malikshah]

40. I don't think God intended humans to put religion over human love

So sad to see that so many from all paths have forgotten this basic issue.

[Emit]

41. I agree.

Thank you for that comment. It is the reason why I was so flabbergasted by my nephew's actions. He and I had never really discussed his religion -- I knew he was born again, belonged to a small church, and followed the scripture, but I honestly didn't know that he'd consider walking into the Mormon church to bid his farewells to his great-grandma would cause him such grief.

In retrospect, the fact that my daughter, who was 8 at the time of my nephew's wedding, confided in me that prior to their wedding, my nephew's bride-to-be and other members of the wedding party (she was in the wedding along with her cousin) were praying with arms raised, writhing on the floor and "talking weirdly" might have been reason for alarm. Apparently, they speak in tongues, I kid you not. Now, I could've raised a stink about them exposing my daughter to that at the time, but, in all honesty, it was his wedding and we were guests and it was not my place to dis their faith. Also, I think it's healthy to expose my children to all forms of religion. It provided an excellent opportunity to discuss faith and reason with my daughter, and to suggest keeping an open mind to others' beliefs. (My daughter, who's 16 now, says it was the weirdest thing she's ever experienced and it will have a lasting effect on her.)

And, so, I guess my point is, besides my rant, I love my nephew dearly and had put my love for him above his religion. It never occurred to me that he would not do the same.

edited for clarity, I think