Do you believe that U.S. MSM is now being actively used by those who control it to...

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

... prep our citizenry's psyche toward acceptance of the government's impending move against political dissenters? In other words, does there seem to be a stepped up effort now under way by MSM to paint 9-11 Truthers and other domestic political dissenters as dangerous potential threats to U.S. security?

And secondly, do you believe MSM will be successful enough with this campaign to allow government to begin quietly crushing dissent?

Note: For the purposes of this poll "crushing dissent" will include things like arresting/disappearing people, asset seizure, torture, murder, etc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There was at least one thread started in GD today that, after quickly receiving 5 recs, was hustled off to the dungeon (how ironic), which is where you'll have to visit if you want to read the article and comments.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x184090

I'm not sure why DU regards this as conspiracy theory. No fascist nation ever in recorded human history tolerated active political dissent and this is a well established fact. Fascist states crush political dissent -- by force -- always -- no exceptions. NOT A THEORY, pick up a history book if you doubt it.

[wildbilln864]

1. K&R!

Yes and yes!

[daninthemoon]

2. I used to wonder how on Earth the German people of the 1930s

and 40's could so stupidly fall under the control of the Nazis and Hitler. I really feel like I've been watching the same thing happen here the last few years. Let's hope the American indepenent way will still hold the day.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

5. I judged them (the German citizenry) very harshly...

...as a teenager back in the 70s when we studied WWII -- now I'm living their nightmare and don't feel quite so disposed towards passing down any judgments. You walk in somebody else's shoes, you begin to understand.

I've posted this plenty of times -- here's one more -- the template they're using:

http://www.crisispapers.org/Editorials/germany-1933.htm

[truedelphi]

16. Thanks for th elinks n/t

[tom_paine]

20. I also judged them harshly. Now I AM THEM. So are we all.

And yes, walking a mile in another's shoes is a sure way to some enlightenment.

However, I must add that these are shoes that I NEVER in a million years expected to walk inside.

Know what else? Seven years later and nothing has fundamentally changed, except a larger slice of Imperial Subjects of Amerika are now catching on, maybe not to all of it but to the idea that the Bushies and their allies are indeed cartoon villains of a type Americans have never had to deal with and are thus (like the Germans) unprepared to do so.

But as the last decade has showed, is ANYONE ever prepared for Bushie-type monsters to rule them?

I mean, didn't Hitler, Bush, Stalin, Pol Pot, Marcos, Pinochet, et al all WIN and WIN and WIN, even if they lost in the end?

I begin to suspect that we are merely doing what humanity has done over and over and over a thousand, a million times, peasants struiggling for freedom and simple human decency, while aristocrats who wish to use us as draft animals (for 99% of human history, treating us worse than their precious animals and pets) oscillate between a minor symptahy with the peasants (like the Founding Fathers or Cincinnatus had some sympathy for the people they ruled) and a reminder that we ARE stupid peasant animals that need to be penned and controlled and lied to.

But I digress. I will never judge the Good Germans so uniformly again. I know too much (minus the violence, thank God) about what it was like to be them now.

[FreepFryer]

3. We are at the very depth of a very sinister administration's evils... but it comes in cycles.

There have always been periods of internal repression and 'relaxation' of repressive measures in America.

The trick is for us to change the patterns, figure out what our national character (and identity) really should be, and unite around our commonalities.

I think global climate change may ultimately be the impetus for us to break the cycle - it's a massive problem, with a deeply progressive solution. And as such, there's no reason that the end result must be for the worse. We may just rise to the challenge and view ourselves as a a nation again - as a capable, powerful and kind people again.

However, we have to break OUT of the cycle of being afraid of 'terrorists', 'criminals', 'radicals' (OR 'fascist administrations' for that matter) and confidently declare that as a people, we simply won't put up with the institutionalized criminality and injustice any more.

I don't fear my government. America is my country and I believe in it... but I am deeply disappointed by the actions of government. And even though I might ideologically oppose these people, I don't see them as having any true power... just the 'easy' momentary power that money can buy.

[liberalla]

18. Really great post.

Your suggestion that climate change may be the event to change the current dynamics is intriguing. That it may be the trigger that pulls us together and up and forward...

Saying it requires a DEEPLY PROGRESSIVE SOLUTION really resonated with me. Beautiful.

[FreepFryer]

4. self-delete (dupe)

[HCE SuiGeneris]

6. Kick and rec while the option is still available. n/t

[Gloria]

7. YEs X 2

[Islander Expat]

8. I don't need to vote on this poll.....

I already voted on this issue, a while back, with my 2 little feet.

IE
Philippines

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

9. Good for you -- that sounds like a rational vote for life and living. nt.

[HughMoran]

32. Been there several times

Was frisked going into a department store, paid "bribes" to police who target certain people. The government there is the most corrupt anywhere. Sorry, Phillippines is NOT a refuge for freedom seeking people.

[Islander Expat]

50. Oh, thats sounds pretty tough, you better stay there at home than.

you're safer LOL

[HughMoran]

51. The volcanic dust, billowing smelly smoke busses, traffic and bad roads, open sewers in Manilla

are more than enough to make me want to stay in a 1st world country!

[Islander Expat]

52. Well if you've only been to Manila, than you really haven't been to the Philippines

you do know theres over 7000 islands? Take a long trip to Negros, Ililo, Cebu or Bohol and than tell me what you think.

Believe me, its nice, Manila isn't so.

[Flabbergasted]

10. No.

The linked article was from infowars and all the links go to prison planet. They certainly do not build a strong case, just the normal sensatonalist headlines with no analysis and little evidence.

Despite this there is very little dissent and if there are major protests, likely resulting from an Iran attack, I don't see any evidence of the MSM preparing the national psyche for a crackdown.

[donheld]

11. With out doubt

and so many are clueless.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

12. How true -- and it leaves me flabbergasted. nt.

[bobthedrummer]

13. Here's a thread I started January 6, 2006 in GD. Today I retain my views on most of it.

Draw your own conclusions-but your poll is one very possible outcome. MSM is full of PSYOPS, even though that is illegal-but not in this criminal administration, full of domestic enemies of The United States of America.

"Reality vs. perception management: the tinfoil controversy" (started 1-6-2006)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x71919

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

15. Thanks for the link -- that's one I somehow missed. nt.

[noise]

49. I have to agree

We are living in a political climate where truth does not matter. Nobody betrayed and disrespected the military more than Bush. Yet the political/media establishment would have the public believe (despite shitloads of evidence to the contrary) that support for Bush's Iraq policy=support for soldiers.

[yowzayowzayowza]

14. No & No. The MSM at itz heart is commercial and ...

"crushing dissent" is bad for business. Madison Ave can certainly come up with something far more insidious than naked violence to lead the credulous.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

31. Madison Ave doesn't pull the strings behind MSM...

...those are just high dollar hired guns with specific assignments to design presentations to sell specific things to specific demographics for whomever is paying their bill.

As for crushing dissent being bad for business -- I'd say that depends on the business. Most of it will be accomplished via intimidation, just like in Nazi Germany.

A frightened populace is a compliant populace and it would seem that it's been determined we're about due for another dose of fright.

[yowzayowzayowza]

36. Of course advertising is just a tool, indeed a highly ...

effective tool, for generating all manner of intimidation.

..."crushing dissent" will include things like arresting/disappearing people, asset seizure, torture, murder, etc.

Please please point out the businesses that will benefit from this behavior. Itz not like such acts are gunna require tanks, planes er meaningful infrastructure of any sort. It would take alota arrests to put a dent in our already considerable penal system.

Methinkz the 21st century fascist has learned that such behaviors are very, very expensive on many levels.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

40. The private prison industry stands to benefit for one...

...but this isn't about near term corporate profits, this is about the illegitimate thugs who run this country retaining/consolidating their long term, unchallenged power -- every fascist nation seeks to do this and the U.S. will be no exception. Meaningful political dissent simply won't be tolerated. To what degree they'll have to engage in "things like arresting/disappearing people, asset seizure, torture, murder, etc." remains to be seen, but it looks to me like they're planning/preparing to do it. Hope I'm wrong -- I'd love to eat crow on this one.

[truedelphi]

17. The internet will go first - theior already is a commercialinterest inhaving the

Big Players ride more cheaply than the other players - will we all still be on this board if being on costs us $ 3 an hour??

But that is the one possibility.

I have already heard the Talking Heads on Fox News saying that all the 9-11 Truth sites on the internet have damaged the American people's ability to remember that day correctly.

It is possible that by tackling the more "fringe" arenas of discussion, theRight Wing have a rationale for limiting what can and can't be said on the Internet.

[formercia]

21. The Internet is the Ghetto

Just like the Nazis isolated those they wished to destroy in ghettos prior to them being sent off to the camps, the Administration uses the Internet as a means of control. Keeping is here, chatting among ourselves keeps us off the streets where they would have to deal with us in full public view.

[Uncle Joe]

41. I disagree,

the Internet can be a great organizing tool for quick mobilization. It also puts some pressure on a corporate media that for the most part is disinclined to report the hard truth or critical issues of the day affecting the American People with out using massive doses of spin, all for their own agenda. In this regard the Internet is becoming stronger every day and Rove's recent speech attacking Internet anonymity is the latest sign of their fear of losing the ability to manipulate the American People through the use of their one way bullhorns.

I view the use of private mercenaries or contractors such as Black Water more as the tool to keep the people off the street, because if we didn't use them as the national morphine to fill critical gaps, Bush's great adventure would almost certainly call for a draft and that would be the motivator for the people to take to the street. The neocons would rather explode the debt and melt the dollar by paying private military contractors exorbitant fees instead of working to strengthen the nation's public military with an unpopular choice which would accelerate discontent. However their current strategy is running head on in to a cul de sac at about 90mph. The dollar can only go so low before the people take to the street regardless.

[formercia]

19. Newsweek hiring Karl Rove is a good example.

The master of dirty tricks to craft the message.


Isolate> Denigrate> Liquidate.

[truedelphi]

34. Rove was already "helping" the Newsweek" news people

Frame their stories. Way back in 2004.

Did you ever read the Newsweek from a week or two prior to the 2004 election? Heavily slanted towards Bush, and denigrating to Kerry in every "Newsworthy" mention.

Kerry was slimed continually. Even a photo of him with Terersa Heinz was labelled as Heinz instructing her husband about the fine points of baseball. But to me, it looked just like two people having a chat during a ball game.

[Warren Stupidity]

22. The author of the cited thread made the mistake

of using that fobidden rational number in his post, thus opening the door to the dungeon.
My guess is that a careless or overzealous moderator used that mistake to toss the thread. As to your main point: yes of course they are. The conditioning to accept authoritarian rule has been going on since the 70's at least. It was cranked into high gear in 2001. The naysayers here are most likely too young or too befuddled to think clearly and reflect on just how far down that road we have already gone over the last 30 years.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

30. The demographic of the naysayers is an...

...interesting consideration -- ages, backgrounds, etc.

[mmonk]

23. There already exists tactics that are closing dissent and are being used.

They may not have to resort to too much overtness to be noticed. Many people already know and many people don't have a clue (even here because there still exists enough dissent that the increasing marginalization isn't noticeable on a large scale). That is what is making this shutdown easier without noticeable bloodshed. It comes from the delusion that our system is self correcting and always will be.

[formercia]

24. Another reason why the Internet is a tool of repression

It is very easy in this computerized age, to filter the Internet for signs of organized dissent. It has been very obvious to me for a long time, even before the World Wide Web, when those of us on the Internet wondered why the Government would release an essentially military network and allow the public to use it without restraint. The answer was simple. The people within the intelligence community saw it as a very efficient tool to monitor the activity of those they wished to control and encouraged its use.

Until people start crawling through the sewers and escaping the ghetto to confront the oppressors in public, the repression will continue and increase as technology becomes more efficient and social networks are increasingly identified and categorized as to threat.

[bvar22]

25. People are already disappearing.

I disappeared about a year ago.
I still can't find my ass.

[formercia]

26. You don't need to 'disappear.'

The 'American Gulag' is all around you. The whole country has become a detention camp. I see a time in the near future where travel will become closely monitored as a means of repression. Current technology allows your car tags to be identified as your vehicle passes through control points such as toll plazas. Soon, vehicles will have tags that transmit information to a roadside monitor that can be placed anywhere, even on rural roads.

[Warren Stupidity]

29. "where travel will become closely monitored" - we are already there.

The EZ Pass system is just one example of how your comings and goings have become part of the database. License Plate cameras are slowly becoming pervasive. In fact, license plates themselves appear to have uniformly been made camera friendly for just this reason. Your cell phone, powered on, knows where it is at all times, and if you want to track your kids phones by location in real time, the phone company will be happy to sell you this service. All those atms come with slow frame cameras that record the world around them for future reference. Security cameras are hapazardly everywhere in this country, and everywhere by design in Great Britain. I'm sure the gummint would never abuse any of this.

[formercia]

33. Perhaps we are

none the less, the databases keep filling with data so that at some future date, if you become a person of interest, there will be all kinds of information as to your whereabouts in a given time period.

How much you want to bet the public won't get access, even if it's to prove your innocence.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

35. Well that sounds like a predicament. Hey, do you think your...

...donkey might just be hiding?



Apologies in advance, just havin a little fun -- not meant as a shot at you.

[MrCoffee]

27. you're giving Katie Couric WAAAY too much credit.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

28. I've never given her credit for being anything...

...but a corporate owned media personality puppet/whore -- credit she's earned and deserves.

[robcon]

37. Conspiracy theory hogwash.

n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

38. The only thing the MSM is interested in is selling beer and toothpaste.

"Crushing dissent" doesn't sell much of either.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

39. MSM does as they're directed to by their controllers...

...and selling the citizenry things absolutely is what their used for -- but to think that those things are limited only to ordinary merchandise strikes me as a tad naive.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. So, who are the "controllers"?

And, what are they selling, that is not merchandise, that the "controllers" are making a profit from.

Unless, you agree that the "controllers" are the capitalists who are doing the selling for a profit.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

45. While there are many who can have some influence, I think PNAC and associates...

...wield the real control over U.S. MSM and they're using it to push the PNAC agenda. They use MSM to sell us a perpetual war on terror through WMD and other deceptions (first Iraq, now Iran), they sell us the illusion of a functional representative democracy in our own country (it could hardly be more broken), they sell us the illusions of equality, freedom, health care, education and a decent standard of living -- and most recently they've begun selling us on the notion that 9-11 Truthers and other political dissenters represent a serious threat to our national security.

Tierra, are you telling me that all this has escaped your notice over the past seven years? MSM only pushes merchandise? Do you really believe that?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

46. I'm saying the MSM's first priority is to sell products.

To do so, they peddle whatever kind of programming will entice the public to buy the advertiser's products. Thus, we have "happy" news, "reality" shows, idiotic sitcoms, endless sports, celebrity scandals, and the rest of the drivel and pablum that the public sucks up.

That those things correspond with what the lobbyists and politicians want is not due to some grand conspiracy, but more of a synergy of interests.

Even in times of obvious trouble, the people want most to be entertained and distracted. From the bread and circuses of Rome as it was crumbling, to the splashy musicals and movies about rich guys meet showgirls during the depression.

The MSM is like the rest of corporate America, whatever sells is what is sold. They are beholden to the corporations and you can damn sure bet that they aren't going to put on programming that are going to undercut the foundations of what makes them rich.

Our "vital national interests", including the need to keep the populace complacent so they'll keep buying, maintaining oil production, marching off to war to "spread democracy", and holding out the illusion that we are "free, democratic, brave, equal..", and are going to get rich someday, are the most vital of interests to the bosses.

The MSM is just part of the ruling class working in their own best interests.

If the American people want the real news, the truth, etc, it's available. But, instead of getting on the internet and checking foreign news sources, or reading anything beyond the sports pages, they'd much rather live in the illusions and buy the newest gadget, diet plan, or car, that is guaranteed to make the slim, alluring, successful, and happy.

And, Americans are basically conformists. If the bosses, the CEO's, the politicians, the media, tell them that they must be "good Americans" and pin little flags on their lapels, stick ribbons on their cars, and get tears in their eyes when they hear "God Bless America", they'll do so, or be ostracized by the majority of "Good Americans". They sure as hell don't want to step out of line and notice the Emperor's bare ass when it's easier to pretend that it's not hanging out.

Unfortunately, the MSM merely gives the people what they want.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

48. "The MSM is just part of the ruling class working in their own best interests"...

...No, Tierra, not a "part," but a TOOL, of the ruling class, and not working "their own," but the RULING CLASS', best interests.

And MSM does not "merely give the people what they want," they spoon feed the masses what their ruling class controllers direct them to.

[autorank]

42. On the truthers, there's something they're trying to preempt.

Something really huge, I suspect. Why would I think that?

Because, as we've seen, the Bush people lie and do wit great purpose. If they're about to take a bath, they attack the position/people who are a about to attack them.

If I'm right and there's anything simple, direct, and damning in a "smoking gun" sort of way, regarding BushCo failures leading to 911, then there will be Hell to pay for BushCo regardless of whatever tired Rovian strategies they use.

btw, It's time to see Newsweek and The Washington Post company as the enemy of the American people after their hiring of Rove as a commentator. What would people have said if Der Spiegel had hired Himmler?

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

43. "What would people have said if Der Spiegel had hired Himmler?"

...HEAR HEAR!!! -- that's a dead on analogy, and a hard hitting one -- it should be made in LTTE's all over the country.

How 'bout it DUers?

[noise]

47. Selling the public

on the 9/11 Commission narrative has required unrelenting authoritarianism, fearmongering, propaganda and intimidation. That is not a coincidence.

The same pundits suggest that 9/11 skeptics are dishonoring the victims. I had no idea that seeking answers and accountability=dishonoring the victims of 9/11. Using this logic it seems going along with the coverup and cheering as scumbag politicians exploit 9/11 at every turn is considered honoring the victims.

IMO, the political/media establishment is deviant. Thus, acceptance of torture is considered patriotic while belief in the Constitution, the Geneva Conventions, transparent government and accountability are considered seditious.