In reading about the last days of the Weimar Republic and

[brazos121200]

the rise of Adolf Hitler, I have noticed several parallels with our own time and the rise of our President, George W. Bush.

In his first try for power in the Beer Hall Putsch, Hitler was unsuccessful and served a little under a year in prison.
In his first try for power in his 1978 race for a seat in the House of Representatives, George Bush was unsuccessful and lost to the Democrat.

Before Hitler came to power, the National Socialist Party was the largest single party in the German Reichstag.
Before Bush came to power, the Republican Party was the largest single party in the American Congress.


On first attaining power, Hitler was not elected to office, but was appointed Chancellor by an old man who was soon to die, Gen. Paul Von Hindenburg.
On first attaining power, George Bush was not elected to office, but was appointed President by an old man who was soon to die, Chief Justice William Rehnquist.

Hitler had not been a member of the Reichstag before attaining power, but his second in command, Hermann Goering, had served several terms as a representative of the National Socialist Party.
Bush had not been a member of the Congress before attaining power, but his second in command, Dick Cheney, had served several terms as a representative of the Republican Party.

Soon after attaining office Hitler's power was greatly increased as a result of the Reichstag fire, which led to the Enabling Act.
Soon after attaining office Bush's power was greatly increased as a result of the 911 tragdy, which led to the Patriot Act.

Early in his reign, Hitler enjoyed immense popularity and won the 1934 elections with about 90% of the popular vote.
Early in his reign, Bush enjoyed immense popularity and had the support of around 90% of the American people in various polls.

Hitler invaded another country, Poland, on false pretenses and lied about the real reasons, saying the leader of Poland was about to accack Germany.
Bush invaded another country, Iraq, on false pretenses and lied about toe real reasons, saying the leader of Iraq was about to attack the United States.

Hitler had many top Generals who should have known better support him in his mad dreams of conquest, Jodl and Keitel come to mind.
Bush had many top Generals who should have known better support him in his mad dreams of conquest, Petraeus and Pace come to mind.

During his occupation of Poland, Hitler used torture on many of the prisoners at Auschwitz and other camps, calling them Jewish Bolsheviks.
During his invasion of Iraq, Bush used torture on many of the prisoners at Abe Ghraib and other camps, calling them Arab terrorists.

At the end of the war, the successor to the Nazi Party failed to win a single seat in the elections for the Reichstag, much to the consternation to the Nuremberg defendants.
Perhaps at the end of this war, the Republican Party will fail to win a single seat in the elections to the Congress.

[Quantess]

1. Interesting!

As much as I'm tired of the Hitler cliche's, there are similarities.

[woodsprite]

2. I just sent this to my daughter. She just finished her test

on the Weimar Republic (she's 14) and we've been talking at night after her homework sessions kindof comparing/contrasting the 2 regimes.

[Quantess]

4. Oh, my. What does her teacher say about this?

[woodsprite]

32. The teacher is pointing out some of the comparisons also, so it seems OK.

I'm very happy with her teachers so far this year. She's in advanced AP courses and for her first semester as a freshman, she's 56th out of 488 in her class.

[brazos121200]

5. I'm tired of the cliche's too, but I never realized there were

so many similarities in the careers of the two men. I'm sure it's just coincidence.

[cali]

3. LOL! sorry but your post reads like satire.

I don't discount out of hand comparisons of the our current political situation with Nazi Germany but c'mon:

"In his first try for power in the Beer Hall Putsch, Hitler was unsuccessful and served a little under a year in prison.
In his first try for power in his 1978 race for a seat in the House of Representatives, George Bush was unsuccessful and lost to the Democrat."

That's just ridiculous. There's no there there. :rofl:


"Hitler had not been a member of the Reichstag before attaining power, but his second in command, Hermann Goering, had served several terms as a representative of the National Socialist Party.
Bush had not been a member of the Congress before attaining power, but his second in command, Dick Cheney, had served several terms as a representative of the Republican Party."

Could you stretch any further?


"Early in his reign, Hitler enjoyed immense popularity and won the 1934 elections with about 90% of the popular vote.
Early in his reign, Bush enjoyed immense popularity and had the support of around 90% of the American people in various polls."

Bush didn't win in 2000 or 2004. He enjoyed a short lived boost in the polls after 9/11.

"During his occupation of Poland, Hitler used torture on many of the prisoners at Auschwitz and other camps, calling them Jewish Bolsheviks.
During his invasion of Iraq, Bush used torture on many of the prisoners at Abe Ghraib and other camps, calling them Arab terrorists."

All torture is reprehensible. But this comparison doesn't really work. By 1935 Hitler had already set up concentration camps. Torture was used on a huge scale throughout the Nazi system- and there was no challenging it.

[brazos121200]

7. Well said.

[pscot]

6. Hitler had only one big ball

Goering had two but they were small.
Himmler had something sim'lar,
Then there was Goebbels, with no balls at all.

[formercia]

14. and they hated the disabled and the mentally ill

and sent them first to their deaths.

[Beausoleil]

17. Ah, yes sung to the tune of

The "Colonel Bogey March", best known as the one whistled by the prisoners in "The Bridge on the River Kwai". Obviously the lyrics were left out of the movie. :-)

[SharkSquid]

8. Only one thing

"Hitler invaded another country, Poland, on false pretenses and lied about the real reasons, saying the leader of Poland was about to accack Germany."

Poland was probably about to attack Germany or at least pretended like they were. They were not exactly innocent, they were highly militaristic and far to big for their britches.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Really? Is that nice revisionist history or what?

I guess Iraq was about to attack the US as well

[SharkSquid]

13. I don't know how Iraq got into this

but everyone has always portrayed Poland as this nice little country minding its own business when the Nazis invaded.

My point being that they had a very militaristic mentality and they were always punching out of their weight with Germany, they made it very easy for Hitler to sell it.

I am not sure what the word is for you nader but I am sure it will come to me, you are an intriguing fellow.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. And the histories of the period I have read

do not have Poland invading Germany any time soon.

In fact, the Radio Station incident was fully and completely staged, and that was the casus belli

[SharkSquid]

27. I am not saying the Nazis

Didnt invade with no good reason, that goes wihout saying...

But Poland made it awfully easy to make it happen.

[LSK]

18. nope

If you persist in this I will consult my copy of:

The rise and fall of the Third Reich; a history of Nazi Germany
by William L. Shirer

[Bucky]

20. Um. Uh...

Are you retarded?

Poland was certainly an antisemitic country with an overly powerful military sticking its nose into politics. But they were not about to invade Germany. Their military preparations, pathetic as they were, in 1939 were entirely in response to Hitler's growing aggression as seen in the Rheinland, Austria, the Sudentenland, and then Czechoslovakia.

You can't break into somebody's house, shoot them, and then claim self defense because they were carrying a gun around their house at night. Duh.

[cali]

21. you don't belong here

if you're spreading that kind of bullshit.

[Dora]

25. Welcome to DU!!!

:hi:

[SharkSquid]

33. Thanks for the welcome

apparently i dont belong though

gotta go, the comformity police are knocking at my door.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Congratulatons, and welcome to the club

apply the same standard to Chile, Russia, even Mexico in 1968 and you will find the same patterns

[mmonk]

10. !

On first attaining power, Hitler was not elected to office, but was appointed Chancellor by an old man who was soon to die, Gen. Paul Von Hindenburg.
On first attaining power, George Bush was not elected to office, but was appointed President by an old man who was soon to die, Chief Justice William Rehnquist.
:rofl:

[Eurobabe]

11. touche! nice catch n/t

[mmonk]

16. It just struck me funny.

[Bucky]

19. You're comparing Bush's 1978 House race to the Beer Hall Putsch? Seriously?

I'm always game for a good historical parallel, but yours is remarkably shallow and misinformed. Point by point your errors (until I get bored with this)

1) The 1978 race wasn't anything at all like a Putsch, and of course Dubya never went to prison. Yet.

2) Before Hitler came to power, the National Socialist Party was the largest single party in the German Reichstag.

Except that the Nazis were STILL a minority party in a highly fractured political system. The Republicans had won three consecutive Congresses by a fair voting system.

3) Hitler was not elected to office, but was appointed Chancellor by an old man...
Bush was not elected to office, but was appointed President by an old man....

I disagreed with the decision, but Bush got in by a totally legitimate Constitutional process. He wasn't appointed by "one old man," but by a different system of cronies.

4) Hitler had not been a member of the Reichstag ... but his second in command, Hermann Goering, had served several terms as a representative...

Hitler was very much a hands-on organizer and leader of the Nazis. Bush was an idiot spokesmodel with no real leadership or organizational input. Hitler was a leader, albeit a thoroughly evil one. Bush was a sock puppet from day one. No real parallel here at all (excpet the far from profound observation that some members of each administration had, gasp, government experience.

5) Reichstag fire... 911 tragdy

9/11-as-insider-job theories have been thoroughly debunked. Bush abused the event to exalt his power. So did LBJ at Tonkin Gulf. So did DeGaulle in Algeria. So did James K Polk after the Rancho de Carracitas shoot out in 1846. Acquisitive war-mongers tend to trumpet events as needed to bolster their power.

6) Early in his reign, Hitler enjoyed immense popularity and won the 1934 elections with about 90% of the popular vote.

The 1934 elections were hardly a measure of Hitler's actual popularity. The Nazis stole that election in ways that would turn Rove green with envy. Bush's popularity faded and in a democratic society, not surprisingly, this news has been widely reported. Hitler, once in power, never allowed a fair assessment of his popularity to see the light of day again.

7) Hitler invaded... Poland on false pretenses and lied...
Bush invaded... Iraq...

Hitler sought several provocations to bring on war before finally getting his fight on with Poland. Bush has been largely halted in his meglomaniacal rush to war with half the middle east by a largely democratic society that simply doesn't want war. Once Hitler got his war going, there was no turning back. Bush has been held in place by a Montequievian system of checks and balances.

8) Jodl and Keitel... Petraeus and Pace...

Jodl and Keitel were top military men. They represented a generally pro-war military establishment in Germany. Petraes and Pace were cherry picked out of a Pentagon brass largely unwilling to sign off on Bush-Cheney's insanity. They got their positions by being passed over many much more qualified and capable men. Quite a number of US generals lost their jobs & ended their careers because they thought Bush's schemes unworkable.

7) Hitler used torture

Hitler was unopposed by the political establishment in his horrendous projects. Bush has met resistance from a number loyal conservative Republican bureaucrats who love the law more than the Republican party. They're a rare breed, but Bush is being hamstrung and resisted in his power grabs and abuses of our treaty obligations. Hitler faced no such resistance.

8) the successor to the Nazi Party failed to win a single seat in the elections for the Reichstag

The Republicans will face some problems, we can all hope, in the coming elections. But it won't be as bad as it would be if they'd murdered 10 million people in concentration camps.



The ability of the human mind to discern patterns and coincidences in random events is a true marvel of nature. Don't be fooled by it. The Republicans and the Nazis are nothing alike.

The Nazis, for instance, supported the minimum wage.

[Swamp Rat]

23. What about all those dead Iraqis?

[cali]

24. Great post

wonderful deconstruction- not that it wasn't one of the sillier house of cards I've seen lately.

[brazos121200]

28. Just a couple of notes;

I wasn't comparing 1978 to the Beer Hall Putsch, just stating that both Hitler and Bush were unsuccessful in their first attempt at power.

I believe Rehnquist organized a quorum of the justices who would support halting the counting of the votes and steered the discussion just long enough to assure that there would be no time to do so when the court finally said the counting could continue. Just a little too neat for me.

Goering and Cheney. Perhaps I should have mentioned instead that both considered themselves great hunters.

911 and Reichstag fire. I never said they were inside jobs, just that they occcurred and were used by Hitler and Bush to further their grab for power.

90% popularity. Simply stating both were popular early in their political terms.

Jodl and Keitel. I believe there were plenty of German military men who didn't want to go to war.

Hitler used torture. I wasn't comparing Auschwitz and Abu Ghraid, but saying both Bush and Hitler had used torture. Obviously Auschwitz was a plague on humanity, Abu Ghraib merely a hiccup.

I should also have mentioned that Both Hitler and Bush had served in the military in a previous war. Hitler in the Great War and won the iron cross and was gassed. Bush in the champagne division of the Air National Guard.

[AntiFascist]

29. The encouraging thing is....

Bush has lost his popularity as well as the Neocon "Party". People may have learned something from history.

[Swamp Rat]

22. k&r

:thumbsup:

[AntiFascist]

26. You left out the most important parallel...

Bush has the backing of imperialist neocons who feel that in order for the United States to remain strong and secure it basically needs to conquer the world. Hitler had the backing of fascist bankers and industrialists (including Americans) who felt that Germany needed to conquer the world and stand up to communism. Both had the significant backing of oil interests. The neocon philosopher Michael Ledeen, who advised Karl Rove, once wrote about the correctness of the universal fascist ideal and why it was so easy for Germans to support it.

[brazos121200]

30. Some of Hitler's biggest backers

were the industrialists, as for Bush. The big difference as I see it is that Bush has courted and won the support of the religious right, whereas Hitler didn't and got some opposition from the religious community, albeit slight.

[AntiFascist]

31. A little known fact is that the Catholic Church strongly supported Hitler....

at the beginning. They had a vested interest in his 1,000 year Reich.

Once Hitler wrote his Mein Kempf, promoted his theories of a master race, and began exterminating Jews and others, then the church and American industrialists decided it was time to turn against him.

[SharkSquid]

34. I would say that that is a well known fact

With all the Carping when they wanted to beatify ol Pius.