Feds seize two tons of funny money featuring Ron Paul

[IDemo]

Federal agents have reportedly seized illegal "Liberty Dollars" and other currency, including two tons of copper coins bearing the likeness of GOP presidential candidate Ron Paul.

The raid took place yesterday in Evansville, Ind., at the headquarters of the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act & Internal Revenue Code, a group that the government accuses of producing and distributing illegal currency.

A spokesman for Paul says the GOP lawmaker has nothing to do with the group or its currency.

"We have no connection with that," Jesse Benton tells AP. "He was using Ron as a marketing technique. We didn't have anything to do with that or sanction it or give permission in any way."


http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/11/feds-seize-two.html

[Richard Steele]

1. Yet another group of Paul-supporting loons that he "has no connection to".

How many is that now? I've lost track. :shrug:

[IDemo]

3. But the man has never seen a UFO and is therefore a perfectly viable candidate

:freak:

[damntexdem]

15. Actually, he may have seen a UFO, but ...

he has no connection to it.

[SharkSquid]

4. I think that is the halmark of his campaign

He runs an extremely de-centralized campaign. The guy Fawkes guys were using V for Vendetta as a marketing tool for the drive, hes never even seen the damn movie I doubt hes seen a movie in 30 years :)

[The Magistrate]

6. These People, Mr. Steele, Have Been Around A Long Time

Their 'liberty dollar' scam is certainly independent of Paul.

"Let each man hang for his own sins, and no other's."

[orleans]

2. paul not "connected" but perhaps an inspiration of the

"National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act & Internal Revenue Code"

FUCK RON PAUL

everyone want to dismantle the government? raise your hand and vote for ron paul.

[TechBear_Seattle]

5. What is the difference between "illegal currency" and counterfeit?

I can understand coming down hard against counterfeiters, but "illegal currency"? What is the difference between "liberty dollars" and coins that are clearly not legal tender, and Monopoly money and video arcade tokens?

[Richard Steele]

8. Intent.

The INTENT to pass it as real is necessary to press "counterfeiting" charges.

"Illegal" simply means it violates the rules concerning how closely
it can resemble real money.

[TechBear_Seattle]

12. So areas with local currencies are committing felonies?

How odd, as there are many areas where this has been going on quite openly -- some even receiving international acclaim for their efforts -- and the Federal government hasn't said Boo. Maybe Agent Mike needs a clue. Here is a list on the Wikipedia of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_currencies_in_the_United_States">communities in the US with local currencies.

[Richard Steele]

16. No, because it's clear that those are not "Federal Reserve Notes"...

...and no one is trying to trick anyone else into
thinking that they are.

It's not illegal to create your own currency, but there
are some very detailed rules about how the actual bills
must be DIFFERENT from our nation's most common currency,
which is an instrument of the Federal Reserve.

We've got some from Carrboro, just down the road, and there's
little chance anyone would mistake it for 'dollars':

[TechBear_Seattle]

18. Are "liberty dollars" clearly not Federal Reserve Notes?

Has this group tried to trick anyone into thinking they are?

If "illegal currency" is such a crime, why haven't the Feds gone after the many communities with their own currency? Why haven't the Feds gone after the many businesses such as Disney which have their own currency and scrip? Why haven't the Feds gone after companies like this or this or this or this or any of the hundreds of others who manufacture and sell similar merchandise?

Sorry, but it seems to me that the legal excuse is nothing more than an excuse. This group was targeted for political reasons, not because they were breaking the law. Can you prove that they were trying to defraud anyone or pass their "liberty dollars" as federal reserve notes? If they were, wouldn't the charge have been counterfeiting rather than "illegal currency?"

[Richard Steele]

21. Well, I'm not familiar with the "Liberty Dollars" scheme in particular...

From that brief story, it seems that the 'violation'
here was the fact that the coins actually contain
precious metal. Isn't that bizarre? You can use PAPER
to create your own private currency, but using SILVER
is a felony. That really sounds like the type of old
& outdated law that occasionally gets held up as HUMOR,
because it's remained on the books unnoticed & unenforced
for generations.

I certainly won't dismiss the notion that this is
a political prosecution. There have been plenty of
those lately, haven't there?

Lord knows Ron Paul is keeping a lot of Repubs up at
night, worrying; and abusing the law for political
gain is just business as usual for them these days.

I have absolutely ZERO doubt that there are Repub
"foot soldiers" spending their days looking for ways
to attack Paul and his supporters. A case that puts
the name "Ron Paul" in headlines next to "fraud" is
sure to get someone a nice pat on the head, no?

[Blackhatjack]

9. There are local governments all around issuing their own currencies....

People use them to buy and sell with local merchants. So it is unlikely that a currency is illegal by itself.

However, when a printed or minted currency is produced which so closely imitates the real currency issued by the treasury dept, then it is illegal.

But if it had printed on it 'THIS IS NOT LEGAL TENDER' it is doubtful it would have been confiscated.

[The Magistrate]

10. People Have To Buy The Stuff, Sir

Doubtless this leaves great room for mis-representation and fraud by the proprietor....

[TechBear_Seattle]

19. And this is handed out for free?

http://www.americanartclassics.com/

[The Magistrate]

25. It Is Not Sold, Sir, Under Pretense It Is A Store Of Value Or Medium Of Exchange

Nor does the seller warrant it is backed by a reserve of specie. If you tried to pay for something in a store with one of those, if the merchant were in a foul mood he or she could have you arrested for passing counterfeit currency.

[Ganja Ninja]

7. I wonder why they haven't arrested these clowns?

This and more stupid shit here:
http://www.homestead.com/prosites-lottofun9/WHLSLgeorgebush2002bill.html

[Blackhatjack]

11. So here is the 'offending' language on the Fed website....

"The U.S. Mint says on its website that "it is a Federal crime to utter or pass, or attempt to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver intended for use as current money except as authorized by law."

Looking at the pics of the coins at the link it is clear that the minted coins were intended to be a form of currency --there is no disclaimer that it is not legal tender.

And the group minting the coins makes no bones about it that they want it used as legal tender.

[AnneD]

13. It was not funny money.....

unless you consider gold and silver funny......


Liberty Dollar office raided


The future of an Evansville-based company that produces a "private voluntary barter currency" known as the Liberty Dollar is in question after federal agents raided the facility this week, according to an e-mail sent by its founder.

Federal officials reportedly raided the group's headquarters, located in a strip mall at 225 N. Stockwell Road, early Wednesday morning and seized documents and precious metals.
<snip>

Von NotHaus developed the Liberty Dollar in 1998 as an "inflation-proof" alternative currency to the U.S. Dollar, which he has claimed has devalued since the Federal Reserve was established in 1913. The silver medallions are produced by a private mint in Idaho on behalf of Evansville-based Liberty Services, which also issues paper notes which the group says are backed by silver reserves.

<snip>

According to the e-mail, about a dozen agents arrived Wednesday morning and seized gold, silver, platinum and nearly two tons of recently delivered Ron Paul Dollars. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze the group's bank accounts, the e-mail said.

<snip>

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2007/nov/15/liberty-dollar-office-raided/

Ask some old timers. One of the first things they did after the Depression was seize gold. And with the homeland security crap-the FBI can open your deposit box. I would be worried if my name and info were on those disks.

edited to add-I hate to don my :tinfoilhat:, but these things seem to happen routinely when governments collapse or go through turmoil. I have friends that came from Iran before the Revolution. He managed to keep a cache of gold and they smuggled it out of the country under his wife's burka. Needless to say the new government seized all the gold, declared the old dinar worthless and issued the new Revolutionary dinar. People loose their hard earned wealth over crap like this. Just because none of us remember that it happened here doesn't mean it can't or won't.

[SharkSquid]

14. Ron Paul is all about the gold standard

That is prolly why they are doing this in his name

[The Magistrate]

17. Just Because Bulk Silver Is Worth Something, Ma'am, Does Not Mean This Is Not 'Funny Money'

Among other things, the price of silver fluctuates in both directions, making any claim of stable value for the tokens false. What sins lie behind the issue of paper notes backed by the proprietor's silver can only be guessed at at this point, but that is and always has been a fertile field for shenanigans. The odds that the issue of notes is not grossly inflated, though they are purchased with real currency at a stated face value, are not worth notice of a betting man.

[AnneD]

20. And what Magistrate.....

makes our dollar stable?????

It is only the full faith and trust of the persons using the Federal Reserve Note that gives it it's stability and value. It is not even backed by gold reserves these days. And that makes it what what to me? I might take them up on their off just to hedge my bets.

Frankly, the way these monkeys are running the show-I have very little faith in our fiat currency and would just as soon have something with a little more substance. And looking at the current exchange rates of world currency-I am not the only one.

I think these guys have a case against the FBI, but I also know what goons they are dealing with. If they can seize someones gold and silver ingots-they can do anything.

[The Magistrate]

24. Nothing, Ma'am: Money Is Purely A Shared Delusion

Belief it is valuable, and confidence that people will exchange tangible and useful goods like bread and a roof over four walls for it, is all that makes money valuable. But this applies to specie as well as paper: there are situations where gold cannot buy its weight in horse-flesh or dog-meat, and gold or silver have no more inherent value in themselves than does paper emblazoned with seals and numbers. Since all of society depends on this shared delusion, we had all better hope the collective mind never clears concerning the matter....

"Men and steel, bread and gold, are the sinews of war. Gold and bread may acquire steel and men. Men and steel can always acquire bread and gold."

[zbdent]

22. Could they get the people who made the "Bill Clinton 3-dollar bill"?

I see one at a local gas station all the time ...

[zbdent]

23. Rudy G bill ...

Stated value - $9.11

real value ... will build on you owing at least $20K for the war ...