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Compromise still brewing on immunity issue in FISA bill.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:21 PM
Original message
Compromise still brewing on immunity issue in FISA bill.
Feinstein and Whitehouse are still trying to strike a compromise with the Specter bill which would let the government be sued in place of the telecoms. It passed out of the house without the immunity for the telecoms, but it appears not to be over completely.

From the New York Times:

Panel Drops Immunity From Eavesdropping Bill

“The full Senate will yet need to resolve the immunity issue,” Senator Patrick J. Leahy, the Vermont Democrat who is chairman of the Judiciary Committee, said in a statement after the committee vote.

Even as Mr. Leahy sent the bill to the full Senate without dealing with the immunity issue, there were efforts by leading Democrats and Republicans to strike a compromise.

Senator Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, the ranking Republican on the panel, is pushing a plan that would substitute the federal government as the defendant in the lawsuits against the telecommunications companies. That would mean that the government, not the companies, would pay damages in successful lawsuits.

Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, Democrat of Rhode Island, said in an interview after the vote Thursday that he would support a compromise along the lines of the Specter proposal.

Mr. Whitehouse was one of two Democrats who voted against an amendment proposed by Senator Russ Feingold, Democrat of Wisconsin, that would have banned immunity for the companies. “I think there is a good solution somewhere in the middle,” Mr. Whitehouse said.

Senator Dianne Feinstein, a California Democrat who also opposed Mr. Feingold’s measure, pleaded with Mr. Leahy to defer the immunity issue because she wants more time to consider several compromise proposals.


Harry Reid gets to decide which bill goes to the floor apparently. One with or one without immunity.

From Glenn Greenwald at Salon:

FISA and amnesty

UPDATE XI: Having just spoken with several people involved in today's morass, I have a lot more clarity about what happened. What I described in the prior update is accurate. Now, the next step will be focused on Sen. Reid. He has virtually unlimited discretion to decide what version of the bill to introduce to the full Senate. He could introduce the Intelligence Committee version (with amnesty), the Judiciary Committee version (without amnesty), the House version, or he could just introduce something entirely new altogether, something that gets negotiated between Rockefeller, Leahy and Reid.

Even under the best-case scenario -- namely, Reid introduces a bill which does not contain amnesty -- anyone can (and certainly will) offer an amendment to include amnesty in the bill, and no matter what happens, it will be necessary to find 41 Senators willing to support Dodd's filibuster to keep amnesty out of the bill. As indicated, today is a good result in that it's preferable for the bill to have left the Committee today without amnesty in it (especially given the 3 Democratic members' support for amnesty) -- and that's not nothing -- but there is no grand "victory" in the sense that there is now some huge hurdle to having the Senate's bill include amnesty.


It appears the Senate Intelligence Committee’s bill was the result of a "compromise between Senator John D. Rockefeller IV, the West Virginia Democrat who is chairman of the panel, and the White House. Mr. Rockefeller agreed to the immunity measure, and in exchange won the administration’s support for other provisions that would provide greater court oversight of the government’s eavesdropping operations."





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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Translation: YOU AND I would pay for the telecoms spying on us
:crazy:

They are out of their minds.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. " ...she wants more time to consider several compromise proposals."
Edited on Fri Nov-16-07 02:52 PM by higher class
What does that really mean. She wants time to convince Landrieau, the Nelsons, some others.

She must be directly connected to the AT&T crime as well as Rockefeller who was briefed. Specter - just doing it for the old Pubs.

I hope we understand, sooner or later, the passion of Feinstein and Rockefeller on this issue.

It is painful to own this much cynicism for Dems.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Translation II: The Rs want your grandchildren to pay for the telecoms spying on us
Edited on Fri Nov-16-07 03:02 PM by L. Coyote
We just pay the interest on the added debt!

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williesgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. When will Feinstein just fucking resign already? I hate her. This is BS let the bill go thru w/no
immunity as it should be. Anyone who ever votes for her again, even for dog catcher, is a traitor to the rest of us Americans. rec'd
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. We're stuck with her for five more years
and when she retires I'm sure she will have amassed a nice little nest egg from hubby's mil contracts.

She appears to not give a FF about representation anymore.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. "it will be necessary to find 41 Senators willing to support Dodd's filibuster"
IIRC, is not entirely correct. It will be necessary to find 60 senators total to approve cloture (Dems could abstain).

No?
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. Op-ed in my paper this morning from Lee Hamilton
arguing that holding the telecoms responsible takes the gov't off the hook. His analogy was: would you help if the fire department came to your door and asked for your help with a neighbor's burning house?

I think his analogy is totally flawed. Better: if a police office came to the door and asked you to help him steal your neighbor's new TV. Promised you'd not be in any trouble.

Are you still responsible? Yes. Does that negate the responsibility of the cop in any way? No.

This isn't an either/or. They knew (all of them, Bush administration officials and telecom officials) that what they were doing is illegal. Both/all are responsible.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:30 PM
Original message
Also known as a false dichotomy
but that kind of crap is very effective (I like your analogy better)
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Lee Hamilton and the Dems that vote for immunity are showing their true colors
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
5. Specter's bill is BS
If the government is sued, that means that we the tax paying citizens will be footing the bill. Of course if this compromise passes the law suits will be thrown out of court, because the government would claim that "national security" is involved, and we've all seen that judges will rule in the favor of "national security" over the 4th Amendment.

I thought Whitehouse was a good guy, I guess he can flip with the best of them, can't he?


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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Can they insist that instead of having the gov't be sued
in civil court, that criminal penalties would apply?

I'd settle for some high-level Bush admin heads rolling on this if that was the compromise.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. Did Sen Whitehouse also go for a plane ride with George?
Or did he get to go with Dick?

Dick and George - still kids playing with wmd and the lives of many.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
12. The real TRUTH behind the Republican DECEIT on the FISA debate and the VETO threat.
Edited on Fri Nov-16-07 03:06 PM by L. Coyote
In effect, this is a law requiring Bush to report his own crimes :rofl:

Why are Bush and the Rs really in a tizzy? Why the veto threat, and why is team-player Mukasey taking the fall for the veto idea.
Because the House Version passed today "Requires an Audit of the President’s Surveillance Program and Other Warrantless Surveillance Programs"

MORE: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2294411
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Interesting...need to read that again.
Will follow the link to Think Progress. Was the Think Progress link from yesterday? They put no date on it at all.

:hi:
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. ?? I found it yesterday. Earlier, I suspect, but not much. Rs whined about not getting it sooner!
Unlike the Patriot Act, they had plenty of time to read it though :rofl:
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