It's Beginning to Smell a Lot Like Flat Sales, Everywhere You Look...

[CorpGovActivist]

JC Penny says sales down, holiday grim

FedEx sees hits from fuel cost, slower holilday shipments

Williams-Sonoma finds fewer flush customers

Starbucks wishes for less "froth" on US market, sales down

Tumbleweeds on Aisle 3 at Home Depot

But expect to see long lines at your local Wal*Mart, where lots of first time shoppers are crowding in to squeeze more out of their household budgets.

One of the reasons Bush is so resistant to drawing down forces in Iraq?

Senior GOP "graybeards" still believe that the drawdown of forces in 1991 contributed to economic shocks that helped precipitate a Clinton upset in '92.

- Dave

[gasperc]

1. I think the Iraq extraction

is costing the economy more this time than '91s "drawdown". The only thing the war does in this cycle is distract voters to just how fucked up the economy is.

[pansypoo53219]

12. helps the unemployment #s too.

course, the unemployment feeds the fodder machine.

you know it's bad when people forgo the starbucks. those addicts are hurtin.

[malaise]

2. Good

Only economic hardship will wake up the people.

[NightWatcher]

3. I thought that the economy was SOOO good

I guess that 3 dollar gas, a weak dollar, job insecurity, failing housing market, and a credit crunch IS keeping us from spending money that we dont have. Good thing that the Fed keeps dumping money into the economy for "liquidity's sake" (my ass).

Dont buy gifts this christmas, stock up on canned foods.

[Richard Steele]

31. And don't forget the groceries that are climbing at 25% per year!

Those canned goods you mention are a wise investment.
Buying them now is like getting a huge discount when
you eat them next year.

[Deja Q]

48. Once walmart, best buy, et al, open up more stores overseas,

we will be obsolete.

If they are finding ways to kick sand on us now, they will continue to do so whenever they want to do as little as sneeze.

A friend of mine told me of her friend who loves offshoring. I do agree with the benefits for those people. But why is "globalization" including one area of the world only? If scientists, programmers, biochemists, lawyers (amazingly), and others are needed, why are Americans being discouraged - coupled with costs that truly do put these things out of reach for us?

[radfringe]

4. cutting back on my christmas shopping for 7th year in a row

another year of this and they will be lucky to get a card

[malaise]

6. We're not even traveling overseas

I want peace on earth not Christmas presents and holiday parties. I'll use the money to give some kids breakfast during the next school term. Fugg shopping.

[crispini]

5. Yeah, I'm done shopping

and it wasn't a very big spree, either.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. So are we

but our budget hasn't changed, it has never been spectacular, that's all

[AspenRose]

7. We aren't exchanging Christmas presents this year.

eom

[bigscott]

10. my extended family

is going away together this Christmas - NO presents, NO parties - just enjoying each other's company for a week somewhere warm. How much crap do we need anyway? I will save my money and hope teh amrket does not totally collapse in 2008.

[malaise]

11. We'll order some books

and Sicko.

[EnviroBat]

24. Neither are we.

I refuse to purchase Chinese shit for people I love, and pay interest on it.

[Habibi]

8. All these stores

would hate my church. For the second year in a row we're doing a "Greater Good" project. They ask us to cut our holiday spending by about half and donate the unspent funds to a couple of worthwhile causes the church as a whole picks out. I don't know too many people who go crazy with buying gifts as it is; I sure don't.

[CorpGovActivist]

13. God Bless!

What a great idea!

: )

- Dave

[Habibi]

18. That's the Unitarians for ya.

:)

[CorpGovActivist]

20. More Than a Few Notable Founders...

... belonged to that cult of open-minded ecumenicals!

: )

- Dave

[Blackhatjack]

9. A recent quote kind of summed up the situation...

Paraphrased -- 'Early sales and discounts are rolling out to grab those dollars before folks get their next heating bill'

Financial pressures are ratcheting up rather than down.

You are correct in predicting a flat Christmas for merchants, and bust for consumers.

As a Walmart Exec said months ago, people have run out of money.

[underpants]

14. They are all following Walmart down into a hole

and by the time they figure out what is going Walmart will be up the ladder and yanking it up out of the hole.

That is their corporate strategy and in this groupthink world of cookiecutter business grads it works.

[Swamp Rat]

16. "groupthink world of cookiecutter business grads"

The most useless mouth-breathers on the planet, who have nearly destroyed the American Dream for the rest of us.

[Swamp Rat]

15. I won't be buying anything for the holidays except food.

I'll be reading used books, playing my musical instruments, and bringing my homemade coffee to the cafés where I can find pre-read newspapers. The trick is to not spill the coffee while riding a bike. ;)

[kineneb]

47. pretty much the same here

-already gave Brother a small load of redwood burl to play with in his woodshop (I was given as much as I could load into my small station wagon)

-Mom is getting a "recycled" large unicorn puppet from the Hospice Thrift Store ($1.50 and a bit of cleaning)

-will probably knit something for SisNLaw

-have no clue for Step-father, probably a ducky thing (it is an ongoing joke) from wood (more redwood burl)

-Hubby will get love and hugs because he is still alive, after almost not making it home from the hospital

I did ask the Parental Units for stuff: new wool fleece-lined houseslippers for Hubby, and one of those emergency crank-up radio/cell charger/light etc. gizmos for me.

[Wcross]

17. I believe gift giving should only be for children.

Most people can buy what they want or need. I do not enjoy the gift giving "obligation" that this holiday has become. Screw it.

[sweetpotato]

19. But my Mother in Law will CRY

She will CRY I tell you, CRY big old tears and screw up her face most unpleasantly if her son and I don't buy her several gifts. She EXPECTS those tokens of admiration and dag-nabbit - she WILL have them!

We aren't planning on seeing them this year - I've had enough of her whiny tantrums.

[Zookeeper]

28. That would be funny except...

it really is an example of how weird and emotionally loaded Christmas is (IMHO) for many people. I know there are well-adjusted people out there who like the holiday, but most of us have some baggage.

Pick one (or two or three):

Memories of holiday family melodramas.
Built-up expectations and dashed hopes.
Putting on a happy face while questioning the point of all the brouhaha.
Being considered a grinch for not going with the program.
Not having the money to give the "must have" gifts.
Worrying about disappointing loved ones.

ETC.

I feel sorry for your MIL, because that sounds like a deep psychological issue, that probably won't get resolved. (Try not to take it personally. :hug: )

[Habibi]

32. My guess is your MIL

whines and throws tantrums at other times of the year, too, yes? Good for you for not putting up with it.

[Missy Vixen]

33. That's fine

So, in other words, people should buy for your kids, but get nothing in return? If adults have everything they want or need, perhaps it's up to those with the kids to buy for their own. It's rude to expect a gift when one's offering nothing in return.

We spent quite a bit on our nephews last year. We not only got nothing in return, their parents couldn't even bring themselves to say "thank you". We've experienced this with others as well -- spend lavishly on our kids, but you will get nothing, not even a "thank you".

Julie

[Wcross]

36. I am single , no children.

Of course it is up to the child's parent to buy the gifts. The grandparents might want to buy the kid something. I am just tired of adults who insist on "exchanging gifts". My point was that it tends to get out of hand between adults. I will buy a niece or nephew a gift with no expectation of a gift in return. They are children, you have a beef with their parents.
My mother forced us to sit at the dining room table & write thank you cards to everyone that gave us a gift. She made sure we thanked people. Apparently your nephews parents are lacking in class.

[FarCenter]

42. People buy gifts to stroke their own egos

People spend money to buy crap that other people don't really want because they get their egos stroked either by either

a) the gratitude (feigned or real) that the giftee shows in return for the gift, or

b) the enhancement of the gifter's social power relative to the giftee by imposing an obligation on the giftee.

[blues90]

21. This will be the 10th year with no gifts and the 17 year with no tree

We gave up once the spirit of X-mas seemed to die years ago . Once they removed all the old shops on Hollywood BLVD and replaced them with malls and more malls people stopped walking and this resulted in the death of the holiday spirit for me .

Beside that we have no money for anything other than basic needs .

I don't even see the christmas tree lots we used to have years ago or the tossed out trees that used to clutter the curbs after they dried up and turned brown which is a good thing . It does show there is a change , there are fewer and fewer homes with lights and fewer people I see going to and from homes and apartments around here with gifts and wrapped food .

I have never been in a walmart in my life and I fully intend on staying clear of all of them forever .

[Raine]

22. Sales down yes, BUT I bet the stores

still make a profit, just less than they would like or expect.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. I know, I sell a luxury product and trust me

sales are WAY down!

[CorpGovActivist]

30. One of the More Interesting Analysis Data Sets I Saw...

... showed that - across the board in all median income brackets - Americans have "down-shifted" at least one category, with even the luxury segment affected.

Thanks for the anecdotal evidence.

- Dave

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. You welcome, and gaming books are a luxury

[CorpGovActivist]

44. Are You a Bookie?

Or are you selling cheat codes for gamers?

; )

- Dave

[Blackhatjack]

37. Well if you want a Merry Christmas Switch To Selling Yachts! (They are selling at all time high)

[CorpGovActivist]

46. Escape from Kennebunkport?

:rofl:

"To South America, James! Quickly! The villagers are fast upon our heels!"

- Dave

[Dulcinea]

26. My family does "Secret Santa."

We pick names out of a hat & only buy for that one adult (kids get gifts from all.) Everyone still gets something to unwrap, but there's not a orgy of shopping involved.

I'm easy to shop for: books and CDs.

[catmandu57]

27. Most of my shopping this year is being done online

I'm finding much better prices even with the s/h, it's paying off having the usps deliver to my door, even then though i won't be spending nearly as much as in previous years. Most of what I'm giving is things that people need and for one reason or another can't buy for themselves.

[Deja Q]

51. Agreed. Aside from food and clothing, big box stores are irrelevant.

Everything else can be distributed by courier, assuming the workers give a shit about the products they transport. (I still recall the ***** who dragged a $1000 printer up 3 flights of stairs as if it was his offspring on a leash.)

[Quantess]

29. No big surprises there.

Home Depot might be doing better if Lowe's weren't such tough competition. I once worked at Home Depot, but I try to only shop at Lowes. Home Depot has messed up priorities, and a real disconnect between corporate-level and store-level. Lowe's is just a better store, sorry to say.

Starbucks...it's nice to buy a coffee now and then, but if you buy it every single day, it really adds up to a lot of money.

[MetaTrope]

35. I'm pretty much holding out on buying stuff just out of spite

Does that make me a terrorist?

[marmar]

38. I know that I get pimped hard by Macy's and Starbucks via email and snail mail....

And it seems there's a pre-Black Friday Black Saturday tomorrow....I have a feeling it's going to be Red Friday.

[CorpGovActivist]

39. Or Ash-Faced Friday n/t

[TheCentepedeShoes]

40. We just got a new teevee

The 8 year old Sony gave out. That's our Xmas.

[DemReadingDU]

41. We do a round robin type exchange

We have a group of about 30 family members and friends, all ages. It's impossible to buy for all of them. Besides, we enjoy being together and having fun.

For the exchange, we first decide what the category will be. One year it was food, another year it was office supplies, one year it was anything. The price is $5 or $10. Everyone brings the gift wrapped, and they are stacked in a pile. We draw numbers, and #1 picks a gift from the pile. Then #2 can either take the gift from #1, or take a new gift. If #2 takes gift from #1, then #1 takes a new gift from the pile. Next #3 can either take the gift from #1 or #2, or take a new gift from the pile. If you have your gift taken, you choose a new gift from the pile. The fun continues, until everyone has chosen a gift. Person #1 ends the exchange either by keeping the gift, or choosing from any of the gifts previously opened.

This is loads of fun, and gets everyone involved from oldest to youngest. Even the toddlers have fun. Some gifts are real nice, some are funny, and there is always one gift that everyone wants to trade for.

A variation - when it is your turn to choose a gift, you first take the gift from the pile. If you don't like it, you can trade with someone who already has a gift.

Christmas is about the only time of the year that our family get all get together. It's not so much a time of gifts, as just being together.

[CorpGovActivist]

43. You Should Let Skinner Design Power-ups

... to make it more interesting!

:rofl:

- Dave

[scarletwoman]

45. I'm no economist, but it has long seemed really out of whack to me that such a huge percentage of

the U.S. economy is dependent on consumer sending. How can buying tons of shit that's NOT made in your own country be a basis for a healthy economy?

Doesn't make sense to me.

sw

[Deja Q]

49. Maybe more Americans need to take a risk and make goods to sell to distributors - EVERYONE read this

We whine Hollywood is so wealthy, yet we all have computers and video cames. Let's make our own entertainment!

See, we just made a product. Fuck hollywood. They haven't made anything decent in years, if not decades.

Don't care about the big name authors at bookstores? Write your own book; sell it as an e-book.

We can still build things, repair things, innovate with things. What I'm saying transcends

Globalization does help in that it means lower costs; giving us the means to be creative. We are not irrelevant if we choose not to be.

Change is happening but if we apply ourselves and stop being slaves to the mindset we all have to work for someone else, we might just survive AND prosper.

THAT is a point few want to bring up. And it's only fair to do so because there IS more than one viewpoint available to fathom.

So, where am I wrong?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

50. Most people will cut that discretionary spending

In the face of economic insecurity or rising prices for fuel and necessities as we are seeing now.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

52. Lead detector kits to some, homemade cookies & candies to others.

My husband & I have been slowly unloading the stuff we have, & don't really need anything more. The kids are grown, & we'll give them cash (hey, it's always appreciated).

I'm rooting some exotic plant cuttings now, to give as presents in pretty pots I've collected.

Maybe my hubby & I will exchange one gift each from the thrift store (some wonderful finds there). Who ever said there needs to be a whole crapload of stuff under the tree.

Our Christmas tree will be the live tree we bring in from the patio every year.

[earth mom]

53. News Flash to Retailers: Your sh*t is too expensive!

Sorry, but even though we make a decent income these days, our family really can't afford to shop in those stores!

Home Depot-we live in a fixer upper and I can't tell you the last time I was in Home Depot. Well, maybe it was over the past summer or in the spring when we had some money from our tax return to spend on home improvement.

Starbucks-maybe once a month in the winter as a treat on really cold days.

JC Penney-shopped there LAST Christmas to get a specific gift.

Fedex-rarely because the rates are too damn high.

Williams Sonoma-probably been at least 15 years since I stepped into one of their stores.



Yesterday, our family went shopping.



We hit the local salvage place and bought a cool vintage cast iron porcelain kitchen sink for $30. We also saw a Brand new Kohler cast iron porcelain bathtub in it's original crate that retails for $300+ for $100. Too bad it was a right hand drain!

After that, we went to our favorite thrift store. Got 2 beautiful near new sweaters for me, 2 near new "Life is Good" t shirts, an awesome-killer diller-vintage wrought iron patio table, an antique jewelry box, and a near new matelasse bedspread with a Linens n Things tag. Our total bill was $28.

Then we went to TJ Maxx where we bought 3 pairs of shorts, 3 t shirts, 6 pairs of socks, a long sleeved Ralph Lauren t shirt, and an O'Neill hoodie sweatshirt, all for $98.

Then we went to Target and Albertsons for groceries and sundries where we saved at least $15 with coupons, plus got TWO 20 pound turkeys for 19 cents a pound.

I REALLY don't know how people are making it these days. Because if our family is now making what is considered decent money and we STILL pinch pennies, how are people getting along ON LESS?! :wow:



p.s. I asked our kid if we could forego Christmas this year and take a nice vacation to New York City instead. He said, "But mom, isn't not having Christmas against the law?" :rofl:

[high density]

54. I went to the mall today and they had the Christmas decorations up ALREADY

I always thought that putting them up after Thanksgiving was still a week or two too early.

[CorpGovActivist]

55. The Day before Halloween...

... I popped into the local pharmacy for trick-or-treat candy, and they were putting out Christmas cards, wrapping paper, knickknacks, etc.

- Dave