**********POST-DEBATE POLL***********

[Basileus Basileon]

Who won?

(in order of current Fun Run standings)

[MonkeyFunk]

1. I think Biden did great

the losers were Edwards and Kucinich.

[Basileus Basileon]

2. I agree Biden did very well. I don't think Edwards did quite so poorly,

but didn't knock it out of the park in the way he needed to.

[MonkeyFunk]

6. I thought he did terribly...

none of his shots landed, and he got booed twice. Not a good night for him.

[tekisui]

10. Kucinich wasn't given a chance.

I agree he didn't come off as well as others, but he was skipped and ignored.

[MonkeyFunk]

16. I think he came off as angry...

which doesn't suit him.

[tekisui]

29. You're right, he is a peaceful person.

But, he knows his message is getting stifled and he knows that we want to hear it. It makes me angry, too.

[MonkeyFunk]

33. Well you can be as angry as you want...

but for a candidate, it comes across poorly.

[tekisui]

49. I agree. But, sadly, I don't think he has anything to lose.--nt

[Whisp]

83. what's to be angry about?

you jest?
I thought it quite appropriate for him to show his anger and distain. We need more of that.
I'm getting pretty sick of these people who remove themselves from the human emotions that we as a people surely have. We are Angry, we are Pissed Off. or didn't you notice?

[durrrty libby]

93. You nailed it

[bdamomma]

53. I agree he wasn't given a chance.

but I going with Biden on this one.

[RiverStone]

80. skipped and ignored...yep

Thats the M$M for ya!

Sadly, at least in 2008 - he can't generate enough of a money train to be competitive nationally.

[gateley]

90. I thought Kucinich ROCKED last night! With what little time he had, he

nailed his points. I was very impressed!

[CrispyQ]

97. I sent money to Biden & Kucinich today.

I love them both.

Kucinich deserved it just for mentioning the I word.

[gateley]

99. And your $$$ to Biden was MATCHED because he's now accepting campaign

financing. I don't know if Dennis is, but I wish he would if he's not.

They BOTH mentioned the I word! I about fell out of my chair when I heard Biden say that. And Dennis is THE champion of the people when it comes to Impeachment.

And I love them both, too!

[CrispyQ]

100. Zang!!

What did Biden say? I only know about Kucinich's I word comments cuz I read the transcript on DU. I didn't watch the debates.

[hootinholler]

24. lol, hard to win when the cards are marked.n/t

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hootinholler]

37. Wouldn't you be pissed if this was done to you?

I would be.

-Hoot

[MonkeyFunk]

43. Kucinich is lucky to be on stage at all

he's a vanity candidate with no chance. He's riding it for all it's worth.

[hootinholler]

48. That's why he got all that applause when he did speak.

When the pendulum is pushed this far right, we need to push it back left HARD.

It's not about being elected, it's about being heard!

I've noticed other candidates are picking up his planks.

-Hoot

[MonkeyFunk]

52. Wish in one hand and shit in the other...

see which one fills up first.

Kucinich has zero chance of being the candidate, much less President. He's lucky to get on stage with serious candidates.

[bdamomma]

56. just a correction Dennis is a serious candidate and he does his research

into all matters, other than his lack of questions, I thought when he said he was the only one to read the Patriot Act was great.

[MonkeyFunk]

59. It doesn't matter how much you like him.

He's polling at 2% and has no chance.

[bdamomma]

77. well that is your opinion.

[MonkeyFunk]

78. No

it's not my opinion that he's polling at about 2%.

It's a fact.

[murbley40]

84. Oh my gosh,my dear departed grandmother used to say that.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rjones2818]

73. Actually...

Dennis got the biggest applause of the night on impeachment. He pointed out that John should know about product liability because he's a trial lawyer. He pretty much hit the ball out of the park each time he spoke.

And we still haven't counted any votes yet, so don't give up on him yet!

Go Dennis! :woohoo:
http://dennis4president.com
Choose Peace!

[lonestarnot]

76. Not about to!

:applause:

[Chulanowa]

82. And why is that?

For what conceivable reason would the candidate with the platform that actually reflects that of the party he's running for, not be a front-runner?

Could it be that he gets five minutes through the entire debate?

Naaaaaaaaaah

So why?

[durrrty libby]

94. Ouchy but true. stop...their heads are exploding

:nuke:

[Labors of Hercules]

3. Everyone but Edwards, Obama and Clinton...

I'm sick of them tearing each other down instead of clarifying their positions! :grr:

[itsrobert]

4. Maybe I'm bias; but I think Edwards won

Biden did well too. The big loser was Hillary and her rude supporters in the audience.

[Catchawave]

19. Edwards, Biden and Richardson my top 3 tonight .....

Good job all candidates :toast:

The CNN moderators were idiots, as usual.

GOP debate in two weeks, will they have troops in the audience asking questions for them too?

[Captain Hilts]

26. He came across as too edgy, complete with GWB sitting with ankle over the knee. Not a gentleman. nt

[msongs]

5. they all won tho dodd had hardly any time at all & edwards got left out in the 2nd part

after the break it seemed. kinda like the audtions for american idol

[TahitiNut]

21. Dodd got about 25% more time than Kucinich.

[lyonn]

44. Surprise, surprise. Notice Wolfie, almost got the most time

There was Hillary and Obama, and then there were the "also rans". How Richarson got that much time from Wolf is interesting, must have figured he wasn't a threat to his favorites.

[AlCzervik]

7. i don't know.

[Mojambo]

8. I liked Biden's performance.

Obama was the best of the first tier, but a poor showing all around by the top 3.

[Audio_Al]

12. My wife has the hots for Biden. It's not a sexual thing... it's political...

I think...

:hi:

[lyonn]

50. What a combo, brains and looks!! nt

[CrispyQ]

98. Ohhhhh, he has a very nice smile & can be so charming, but sincere at the same time.

I'm sure you're right, though, it's political only. ;)

:hi:

[Labors of Hercules]

14. couldn't agree more!

I also thought Dodd did very well considering the time he had!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

87. biden, edwards, obama, even dennis were superb. I missed Dodd,

and I felt like turning off parts of Hillary.

[flvegan]

9. What's the Poll?

Who won? Who lost? Who do you support? Who made the best showing?

[Basileus Basileon]

13. Who won? Sorry, thought was self-explanatory. I've corrected it. Thanks for bringing that

to my attention.

[SnoopDog]

11. I think no one can 'win' until all candidates are given equal time...

I thought we lived in a democracy and favoritism from Woof to special candidates is highly inappropiate...

[Audio_Al]

17. Sorry, Snoop, that will not happen. Not until we get the field narrowed down by Dems themselves.

These pre-season debates are no more accurate than the Fun Run we're doing on the DU.

Kuchinich in front?

Followed by Gore?

Give me a break.

Respectfully,

Audio Al

[gateley]

92. Edwards and Clinton have been wanting to narrow down the field for some

time now. Since the beginning, if I recall correctly.

[MonkeyFunk]

45. Nah

not all candidates deserve equal time.

Become a frontrunner - get more time. If you're polling at 2%, you don't deserve the same time as somebody polling at 40%.

[SnoopDog]

51. No one deserves more or less time...

The media is choosing our candidates - not us and that is their plan... and it is wrong

[Greyskye]

81. so in reality, what you are saying is...

...that the candidate with the biggest war chest deserves the most visibility.

Why don't you just vote for a corporation, and skip the middle man? :sarcasm:

[gateley]

101. I'm more concerned with what WE deserve - and I believe we deserve to hear

everyone speak equally in order that we can make a better informed choice.

[TahitiNut]

15. Kucinich made the MOST of his 5 minutes and 37 seconds - less than 1/3rd Obama's time

[Audio_Al]

22. Kuchinich is a wonderful speaker. Cuts right throught the crap and says what he thinks.

However, we have to focus on electability.

It won't happen for him this time, like it didn't last time.

That is not to say HE WOULDN'T BE AN EXCELLENT PRESIDENT if he were to somehow get the job.

Respectfully,

Audio Al

[TahitiNut]

32. "electability" is a chimera ... a false 'issue.'

If the Democrats aren't able to get a ham sandwich elected this time - THE BEST chance to win a Presidential election since 1932 - then they've fucked up royally.

The "electability" meme is being peddled by the corporatists ... in an attempt to hijack an election that's nearly a "gimme."

[Audio_Al]

40. You may be right, but I think there will still be the issue of who can beat the top Republican.

Do you honestly think the country will fall in line for JUST ANY of these people and be able to beat:

Mitt Romney?

Rudy Guiliani?

Ron Paul?

Mike Huckabee?

John McCain?

We just can't afford a mistake this time.

Respectfully,



Audio Al

[TahitiNut]

55. Close to "just fall in line" ... yes. Not quite, but close.

Good grief ... the Democrats have more than a 15% advantage in people PREDISPOSED to vote Democratic in 2008 without even naming a candidate.

I just don't put ANY stock in the (so-called) head-to-head polling at this point because it's nearly all name recognition. It'll REMAIN name recognition until there's a nomination and launch. At that point, it's the Democrats election to lose and the greatest danger they face is turning their backs yet again on the liberal base.

Look... the votes aren't to the 'right' of where most of these candidates are. The VAST majority votes are to the 'left' ... who've been holding their noses by buying into the CONSTANT threat that the 'centrists' will vote GOP if not pandered to. It's appalling ... especially now that the 'centrists' are claiming that the 'left' are somehow wrong to make the SAME FUCKING THREAT. It'd be laughable if folks had a clue about what's been going on.

[butterfly77]

88. Correct! and the candidate..

that should be chosen is Biden...I do not want to see Edwards or Obama in a debate and showing everyone how little they know about foreign policy against a republiCON. Biden is well informed on all of the issues and can think on his feet. Edwards got caught looking like a deer in the headlights when Kucinich call him out...

[blm]

91. EXACTLY - and they also use that fear to distract from the last elections being won by

ELECTION FRAUD. So they push the idea that Gore and Kerry were too far left or too populist for the country, when the truth is all they needed to take the Oval Office was a secure election process that the corporate stewards of the Dem party WOULDN'T do for their four year terms.

[gateley]

102. Sigh. TN sends me to the dictionary again..... nt

[TahitiNut]

103. (grin) Sorry - it's not intentional. If anything, it's my age ... and time ill-spent reading arcana.

chimera - an illusion or fabrication of the mind

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=chimera

The connotation is that of some imaginary force of nature or threat ... the abstract product of a sophistry.

[gateley]

104. It's not your age - I've probably got you beat there. It's just that you're so

damn smart and well spoken which is why I always look forward to reading what you have to say! :hi:

[KoKo]

57. He sure did and made great point about the others votes and what they

are NOW saying... Plus that "Impeach, Impeach, Impeach" got a huge round of applause.

[Blackhatjack]

18. Edwards presented clear differences for the voters....

Called out the NeoCons by name. Called out the corporate moneyed interests aligned with Hillary.

[Audio_Al]

28. I could go with Edwards, but others will make this choice, not me.

We live in Oregon. It's all over by the time we even have our primary.

We get months to sit on the sidelines. It's kind of depressing.

Let's hear it for a National Primary day and real elections.

By the way, I supported Howard Dean and John Kerry. I truly believe either of those men would have made a great president!

Respectfully,

Audio Al

[rjones2818]

74. Couldn't explain

why he, as a trial lawyer, voted for opening up China trade without product liability protection....

:evilgrin:

:hide:

[Labors of Hercules]

20. Obama needs to stop comparing his opponents to Republicans.

it just doesn't play well.

[Basileus Basileon]

38. Primaries are not a time to seem petty, no.

[flvegan]

23. FINAL TALK CLOCK

Won? When was it fair?

[Basileus Basileon]

25. It wasn't remotely fair. I'd give it to Biden, who strongly impressed despite

his handicap. DK got downright disrespected.

[Audio_Al]

31. If Biden becomes president, I think my wife will move to Washington, DC.

She's too old to be an intern, but you get the idea. The expression used to be, "I wouldn't mind if he kept his slippers under my bed."

Is Mrs. Biden ready for competition?

Audio Al

[rAVES]

36. I hope this is apparent to people and it backfires on them!!!

Makes me fucking crazy!

[Basileus Basileon]

30. kick

[wildbilln864]

34. DK! n/t

[Blue_In_AK]

35. We were impressed with Biden here. n/t

[KoKo]

39. They all did very well.... and it was more of a debate than the other "debates.'

my thoughts,anyway. I will say that Kucinich made excellent points in the vulnerability of the others on their votes, though. And, his 'impeach, impeach, impeach' got alot of applause.

[goodgd_yall]

41. Dodd and Kucinich did -EDIT--well. And so did Edwards.

[Basileus Basileon]

42. kick

[tomg]

46. This didn't change my overall view, and

my actual first choice is Kucinich and my second Edwards.

With that said, I thought, based on tonight, Biden and Richardson were sharp, particularly Biden. I often disagreed with Dodd, but he was clear, honest and articulate. Clinton came off quite well ( and I am any thing but pro-Hillary). Obama was a tad hesitant ( and my son who watched it with me is very pro-Obama and he sort of agreed)but he came on later. Johhny E didn't do so well. In fact, as much as I like him - and I do - he blew it tonight. He missed an opportunity in the individual questions when all he had to do was own his earlier vote and apologize. flat out.

Dennis got screwed. Pure and Simple. I can't rate him since the media didn't see him. If I were DK, I probably would have walked off the stage.Still, when he said he would support any dem who didn't support war as an instrument of foreign policy, I applauded.

Honestly, this was the best debate, and I saw more passion regarding what they see for American than I have in any other debate. At least tonight - even when I disagreed - I knew I was looking at democrats.
With all the infighting and bullshit that goes on at DU - and which I do as much as anyone - I feel a lot more hopeful. This was a discussion. Oh, and Blitzer is a putz.

[L. Coyote]

47. I have not watrched a debate yet, but I voted anyway.

I assume I'm less biased than everyone who watched :rofl:

[KoKo]

58. This was the debate where the clearest differences in candidates

came out, though. More debating than the other "cattle calls." But, I doubt that it would change anyone here's mind who is already made up. Just that it was interesting to see some "nuances" in position finally coming out. :shrug:

[HughMoran]

60. Biden was a friggin RIOT tonight!!

He was so funny and on point - I loved his performance. SInce the majority in another post said that Edwards lost the debate, I am completely discounting the Edwards vote above to "DUing" the poll. Edwards clearly did poorly tonight.

[Basileus Basileon]

61. I agree with you on the Edwards supporters. This was the worst performance I've seen from him,

and I would say he probably did worst of anyone tonight.

[lonestarnot]

66. Do you do anything besides criticize dems here?

[Basileus Basileon]

69. Christ.

I've got a mini-pack of stalkers complaining I'm "an odious party loyalist" who does nothing but post rah-rah bullshit. I've got you complaining I do nothing but criticize Dems here.

I regularly defend all candidates, and attack all candidates. My repeated defenses of the Democratic House and Senate--and my shocking stance that there is not one Democratic candidate who can fairly be called "Republican"--made people think I was Zandor in disguise. In the debate threads tonight, 4/5 of my posts were approving of a candidate's responses.

I do nothing but criticize Dems here. I'm a paid DLC plant who does nothing but cheer Dems here. Tonight I've been called an HRC loyalist and an HRC basher, each on the virtue of one post.

Apparently having opinions more complex than "X IS ALWAYS BAD" or "X IS ALWAYS GOOD" in a forum chock-full of binary thinking means everyone thinks you have the opposite position they do.

[HughMoran]

68. Uh, oh - one of your PIed Zandor piper friends has found you

lol - you're like a lightning rod for these people :rofl:

[Basileus Basileon]

71. I provide a public service, it seems.

Basileus Basileon: getting stalked by obsessive paranoiacs so you don't have to.

[HughMoran]

72. I get a kick reading the paranoid babblings

of the "persecution complex" so-called "progressives" (they've totally bastardized the term) who think you're the Second Coming (of Zandor :rofl:)

[HughMoran]

63. Yup, in the "loser" post, Edwards - 13, Hillary - 5, Obama - 1

So yeah, he can't be the "winner" and "loser" at the same time :rofl:

[Lex]

64. I think "DU'ing" a poll on DU isn't really "DU'ing" a poll.

nt

[HughMoran]

65. technical foul on - - - - me!!

But I have pointed out above that he got the vast majority of votes as the "loser" in a post about who lost, so there is clearly a disconnect here and I say that it's the "winner" people who are voting for him without even watching the debate (as some have admitted already - lol).

[Odin2005]

62. Biden impressed me very much!

Used the word *shock* IMPEACHMENT! He also kicked MSM ass by reminding Wolfie and company that the majority of Americans WEREN'T divided on the war, we want OUT!!!

[Mark E. Smith]

67. When Clinton told the guys they were engaging in tactics ...

... "straight out of Republican playbook," the air went right
out of the lungs of some of those fellows.

It was an awesome moment.

[0007]

70. Awesome?

Ya must have been watching a bull riding contest, huh?

[durrrty libby]

95. Deeeeflated. It was a beautiful thing

[David Zephyr]

75. Joe Biden won the debate, Hillary held her lead & Kucinich had his best night yet.

They all were good, but Biden --- for the second time now --- walked away as the winner.

[Basileus Basileon]

79. Kick for day-after crowd

[ChairmanAgnostic]

85. ed schultz hit it on the head today on the air

the scripted response and attack by paid hillary staffers was not only counterproductive, but distracting (their whole purpose) and insulting. AND SHE CLAIMS THAT SHE WAS THE VICTIM! I have no respect for that woman or her campaign tactics.

Anyone else on the D side would be far better.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

86. ed schultz hit it on the head today on the air

the scripted response and attack by paid hillary staffers was not only counterproductive, but distracting (their whole purpose) and insulting. AND SHE CLAIMS THAT SHE WAS THE VICTIM! I have no respect for that woman or her campaign tactics.

Anyone else on the D side would be far better.

[gateley]

89. Biden owned it, man. nt

[jillan]

96. Ladies and gentleman, as my father used to say.....

:)