on the contrast between Kuchinich support and most other candidates....

[mike_c]

Full disclosure: I am an unqualified Kucinich supporter. Nonetheless, one real difference I've perceived between the WAY democrats support Dennis Kucinich and the way they seem to support other candidates is that Kucinich support seems overwhelmingly focused on the SUBSTANCE of the candidate and his potential for effecting meaningful change, while support for most other candidates seems rooted in less important qualities and events. Kucinich supporters are always praising his stances on the issues, his words, and his actions: "Kucinich says America should...," Kucinich stands for...," Kucinich fights for...," and so on, and overwhelmingly democrats agree with his positions.

Support for most other democratic candidates-- democratic voter support-- seems to do it's best to avoid any consideration of issues. It seems to have more to do with polls, appearances, and media perceptions. "Hillary ahead in XYZ poll...," "Obama rally attracts thousands...," and "Edwards visits factory...," as though those accomplishments were reasons someone might want to vote for them. We can see this phenomenon right here on DU, where Kucinich supporters are excited about what Kucinich is doing, what he stands for, how he might CHANGE the American political dialog, while supporters of other candidates are enthusiastic about media polls and everyone else's gaffs.

I realize this observation will seem partisan, but there it is, nonetheless. I'm utterly flame-proof, so have at it. I simply don't hear many people applauding Sen. Clinton's views about Iraq and the "war on terror," or Sen. Obama's foreign policy alternatives, or John Edward's plan for restoring American political values, and so on. When the issues come to the forefront, it usually involves Kucinich.

[fenriswolf]

1. k&r 100% kucinich for president

[Basileus Basileon]

2. I would strongly disagree with that assertion.

Kucinich's support is not so much based on what he is for, but rather what he is opposed to. He is cheered for speaking out against war, against Bush, against corporations, against various other Great Evils. Occasionally he is cheered for a protest vote or a symbolic resolution with no chance of success.

I would like a President who has shown an ability to not only say the right things, but to accomplish things as well.

[mike_c]

4. well, ok, but even if we grant that...

...it still emphasizes that Kuchinich support seems rooted in ISSUES, whether pro or con. Yes, he is cheered for speaking out, for speaking against, and so on. He does not equivocate on the issues. I appreciate THAT.

[Basileus Basileon]

7. I mostly agree with that.

Kucinch seems to be the candidate for people whose biggest concern is speaking out on the issues.

[John Q. Citizen]

18. No one in congress on the Democratic side has accomplished anything

in the last 10 years.

Where have you been?

Did you know that Dennis, who entered congress in 1997 has gotten more bills voted out of committee than Nancy Pelosi has, even though she was already in congress for ten years when Dennis was a freshman? And she was Minority leader for part of that time, and she was Speaker for the last year.

I've heard this rumor that you are spreading, but I never here it backed up with examples of who is accomplishing what, in comparison to Kucinich.

Would you please provide some data instead of just empty rhetoric?

[LWolf]

34. Would you please give this information

concerning # of bills voted out of committee a thread of its own?

It bears repeating, and recommending to the greatest page.

[treestar]

23. What for?

In this day and age and with what has been happening, being against it is good enough and better.

We need somebody to fight against the bad trends the repukes are trying to get hold of. That's enough and what we need right now.

[Basileus Basileon]

25. True. But after 2008, I fully expect to have a Democratic

Senate, House, and White House. Once we get there, it's no longer about "stopping the repukes," because the Republicans will no longer have a whiff of power. The only thing they'll be able to do is filibuster in the Senate. They won't be able to do jack shit. Once we get to that point, I'd prefer a President who is capable of leading the nation back to the left. If his political career shows anything, it's that Kucinich is a principled man, a hell of a fighter, and totally unable to build any sort of legislative coalition.

[tomp]

31. that's a really silly argument.

opposition to the war is FOR peace, impeachment of cheney is FOR justice and democracy, universal single payer health care is AGAINST the insurance...oops, etc. your analysis is shallow at best.

[truedelphi]

37. Thank You! Concise and logical. And True. n/t

[lynnertic]

33. But Kucinich kept CPP in the hands of the citizens of Cincinatti

and out of the hands of large corporate interests.

And, he's gotten roughly the same rate of bills out of committee as Hillary Clinton. I have to go find that reference, it's around here somewhere.

[jmatthan]

36. How wrong you are!

Kucinich stands for a Department of Peace which, in my mind, is the most important thing the world wants today.

Kucinich is the only one who has stood for a single payer system bringing the US in line with every other western industrialised country. (That does not bother me as it is your funeral, otherwise! :) )

Kucinich has stood for diplomacy above force.

It all depends how you state the stances! You wish to state them in the negative while Kucinich supporters state them in the positive.

In a recent push poll, when looked at in great detail, Kucinich was the most positive on all issues - not the most negative. He stood head and shoulders above everyone else. The closest to him was Chris Dodd!

[gateley]

3. With all due respect, maybe you've been ignoring the Biden threads. We

Bidenites are strong in our pride of Biden's statements on the ISSUES. Of his accomplishments. Of his voting record. Of his service to the people of his State and our country. Of his vision for America and his commitment to our people and our place in the world.

As a matter of fact, don't get us started :7

As a footnote, most of us think VERY highly of Dennis, for the same reasons you do. :hi:

[mike_c]

5. you might be right, I have not spent much time in the Biden threads.....

Point taken-- and understood. I suppose I'm mainly thinking of the Clinton/Obama/Edwards axis.

[gateley]

9. Shame! You of all people should know not to focus only on Those Three!

:7 :hi:

[hootinholler]

11. I will never ever forgive Biden for the citicorp bankruptcy bill.n/t

[truedelphi]

38. The banking/oil industry is the main puppeteer over

Our lives.

It is hard to buy a packaged food at a grocery store without it being a subsidiary of banks or oil.

I didn't know Biden voted for that bill, but I did know Studs Terkel thinks it is ludicrous to
call Biden a liberal. Now I understand why.

[hootinholler]

39. He didn't just vote for it.

He championed it, and voted against every amendment that would have made it palatable!

-Hoot

[truedelphi]

42. Sticks in my craw, but I'll remember that he did this. n/t

[John Q. Citizen]

20. I have some questions about where Biden stands on the issues.

What is his plan for Healthcare?

What is his stance on American Empire

Does Biden advocate bringing bush and his administration to justice, to answer of thier crimes?

What are Bidens views on marijuana?

What are Bidens views on NAFTA?

Thanks.

[redqueen]

43. The way he handled Clarence Thomas's confirmation hearings

is what sticks in my craw.

The way he apparently treated Anita Hill... just unforgivable.

[caseycoon]

6. It's because Dennis HAS substance.

It took me awhile to choose a candidate. The first thing I noticed was that Dennis, when asked a question, just answers it straight out. Unlike the other candidates he doesn't dance around & give non-answers. No pussyfooting. Then I started doing more research on him & I love what he stands for. You can actually KNOW what he stands for. You don't have to guess! Then, of course, his actions speak much louder than words. So I'm totally hooked on DK! There is no other candidate for me! He's DA MAN!

[Hatchling]

8. That's why he is my choice.

He is actively working to restore American values.

[Swamp Rat]

10. You're certifiable!!!

... as a qualified Kucinich supporter that is. :D

[mike_c]

12. ROFLMAO....

:rofl:

[hootinholler]

14. GMTA

Here.

:rofl:

-Hoot

[Swamp Rat]

16. Grate myndz 'n' all dat!1

[mike_c]

19. oh dude, that is an instant bookmark....

Is that a MULLET? :rofl:

I am going to start a separate thread about that image! It MUST top the greatest page!

[Swamp Rat]

21. LOL!

ok :)

[Naturyl]

28. No, it's just long hair.

A mullet would be trimmed in front. As a long-haired man, I find it my duty to defend against charges of mulletry. :)

[mike_c]

29. in fairness...

...I too am a long haired man, but I did once wear a full on mullet. In grad school no less. One day I'm going to scan one of the few photos I have from those days and post it here just for major laughs! :rofl:

[Naturyl]

13. Hmm... perhaps. The Biden people are strong in this area too, though.

Biden and Kucinich seem to be the "substance candidates."

[mike_c]

15. gateley pointed that out up thread and I concede it....

I was referring primarily to the axis of MSM candidates, mainly due to my own ignorance.

[kestrel91316]

17. K&R. DK is the candidate with brains and brawn. His policies

are those of the Democratic Party I knew and loved years ago. He is NOT Dem Lite.

And he's the one calling for impeachment. Pretty much sums it up for me.

[KoKo]

22. Good points you make there.

Weren't some of us taught "substance over style" wins every time? Doesn't work out that way anymore...but maybe it's time to look at real accomplishments and values over polls and "winability."

[Jim Sagle]

24. Sorry, not true for Edwards supporters - most of us, anyway.

[mike_c]

26. ok-- maybe I've missed those threads....

Admittedly, I'm relating my own perceptions.

[zalinda]

27. That's true.........

While reading the threads about the candidates, I haven't seen any Edwards supporters talk about his "theme". To tell you the truth, I don't know what his "theme" is, as some one said he wasn't using two Americas any more. But, what I can tell you, is where he stands on the issues, and unlike some other supporters, I will tell you what they are and not tell you to go to his web site to find out. I think most Edward supporters are like that, because we KNOW what the issues are, what he is going to DO about them, and HOW he is going to do it.

If I never saw him, never knew anything about his personal life, never heard his speeches, but only read his position papers, I would still have become a supporter. He tells me exactly what he stands for, and that is all I need to know.

zalinda

[hayu_lol]

30. Ummmm, just when is Dennis going to get around to...

shutting down the Diebold Corp?

Any of you hardcore Dennis cultists have an answer?

People who do not endorse Dennis, probably don't like him much.

Dennis always reminds me of the Duracell Bunny, only the bunny is real.

[warren pease]

41. DK on paper trails, electronic voting machines, election fraud, etc...

Google HR 6200. It's a bill mandating paper trail verification that he introduced in the 109th Congress and either already has or plans to reintroduce this year. In either case, it'll have a new number and I don't know what that is.

Here's what he said regarding electronic voting machines and the need for paper ballots on the House floor, Sept. 20, 2006.

And here's his position on reinstating voters' rights.

He also withdrew his support for Holt's seriously flawed HR 811 earlier this year because, among other things, it included some bogus language about DRE electronic records counting as paper trails.

And the bunny just keeps on going...


wp

[redqueen]

44. "the bunny just keeps on going..."

:applause:

How can you NOT support that?

[Wilms]

32. Thanks for sayin' it. n/t

[LWolf]

35. I agree. n/t

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

40. K & R.