Since when are homosexual topics off-limits to heterosexuals on DU?

[RagingInMiami]

I haven't been spending much time on DU these last few months (tonight is another reminder why), but I used to remember a DU that was not so divisive between gays and straights. But the last few times I've ventured into GD, I have witnessed sheer animosity from gays to straights.

Is there a such word as "heterophobia"?

Perhaps there should be because I've experienced nothing but vile, anger and contempt from many in DU's gay community where honest discussion and debate would have been much more educational and lead to deeper understanding of the issues that affect them.

It seems that many DU gays and lesbians have forgotten that we are on their side.

[Bluebear]

1. OH GOD this is rich! nt

[hlthe2b]

3. What's the scoop, Bluebear?

There must be some story behind the post?

[Bluebear]

4. Let me get this 'straight'-- NBA star says he hates gays, wants us off the earth

The poster who starts this thread earlier opines that NBA star MUST be gay to have made those homophobic statements. And after all these insults, now it is noted that it is the gays who are so disagreeable. :eyes:

[hlthe2b]

5. Ahhh.. well that does explain a lot...

I think I'll check out and hope for calmer waters tomorrow...:shrug:

[Bluebear]

6. HPV wars, gay wars . . .

People are such busybodies when it comes to the genitals, eh? :)

[hlthe2b]

9. 'tain't it the truth....

ho hum.....;)

[frogcycle]

62. genitals? what genitals?

we don't need no steenking genitals

[tom_paine]

178. Bluebear, I don't think that is a dissing of gays at all, but a fact

Disclaimer: I am straight.

It is not meant to denigrate gay people, but it is true that a large number of people who hate gays are in actuality closeted self-loathing gays.

I believe there have been scientific studies performed at one time or another that suggests that a substantial minority or even a majority of men psychologically tested and registering high-levels of anti-gay animosity also show high levels of repressed gay feelings.

Look at that asshole Ted Haggard. It wasn't the gayness that was his problem BUT THE HYPOCRISY.

If he had been a regular gay guy and not a virulent Bushevik homophobe, none of this would matter and nobody would care. Same with Guckert/Gannon. It wasn't that DUers were harshing on the gayness as being wrong, but the hypocrisy of being a Bushevik homophobe at the same time he's advertising on HotMilitaryStuds.com to be a gay prostitute.

I have rarely ventured into talk of straights and gays, and I certainly hope the straight folks and gay folks at DU are not polarizing ourselves. Because we are all in this together and we all need each other if we are going to keep America from going BushPutinist.

OK?

[donco6]

183. Can you name a study that says that?

"I believe there have been scientific studies performed at one time or another that suggests that a substantial minority or even a majority of men psychologically tested and registering high-levels of anti-gay animosity also show high levels of repressed gay feelings."

Where? When? Seriously, I just want to see this mysterious study for myself.

[ronnykmarshall]

133. Well it's no godamn wonder ......

[hlthe2b]

2. Well, without wading in... would you care to give an example?

I fear I've been caught up in the HPV wars today...:eyes:

[Behind the Aegis]

7. It's not "heterophobia."

You say you haven't been around for awhile. Well, after the Superbowl, there was a dust-up and it pissed off quite a few of us because, quite frankly, some of the "discussions" were disgusting and treated us as if we were unable (too stupid(?)) to know what qualifies as homophobia. Our insights were dismissed and we were belittled with thread after thread basically calling us "whiners" and accusations of "playing the victim card." It became VERY tiresome.

I saw your thread about the NBA player. IMO, it was a typical response from someone that isn't gay. I don't think it was meant to be offensive, and, reading some of the responses, I don't think too many were offended as they were put off by yet another homophobe getting a "pass" because of his own internalized self-loathing. Yes, it is true that some homophobes are self-loathing queens. However, more often than not, they simply are bigots because they were raised as such and it has nothing to do with some secret longing to know the touch of man (or woman, in the case of lesbians).

While you say that we have forgotten that "you" (general) are on our side, the past few weeks have made us question more than one poster on that very notion.

[RagingInMiami]

14. Thanks for that sensible and informative post

[Smarmie Doofus]

8. That's interesting. Many posters in the GLBT forum.....

... are complaining of the exact opposite: i.e. hostility from non GLBTers on DU.

Can you give some examples of what you are talking about.


>>>Is there a such word as "heterophobia"?>>>>>

Sure.

[REP]

10. Since "Gay Marriage Will Cost Us The Election" Maybe?

I think those threads started the unease.

[Behind the Aegis]

11. That's why my partner doesn't post here anymore.

After joining DU before the general election, we posted off an on. I posted more than he did. But, after the re-selection, the attacks on gays ("costing us the elections) were too much for him and he stopped posting or even reading DU. Sadly, he wasn't the only one.

[REP]

12. That Sucks, But I Can Understand That

I get the same urge every time there's a "let's bail on reproductive rights to win" or "let's give up someone ELSE'S rights to win" orgy but I either have a high tolerance for crap or a low smartness level.

[k_jerome]

16. i do not understand his reaction to the attacks. nt.

[Behind the Aegis]

20. You don't understand his reaction?

Basically, he felt the anti-gay sentiment was too much and it bothered him. He is a very low-key person, so rather than battle, he will say his peace and move on. I, on the other hand, was born to battle. :)

[k_jerome]

21. if he is low key, i can't blame him...

gotta get in and scrap though.

[Behind the Aegis]

22. That's my opinion, too.

However, it makes very compatible, among other things. He will fight for the right things, when he feels it important. So, now, he hears about it from me, usually in a very loud voice. :)

[kdmorris]

28. Since you weren't here after the 2004 election

(presumably you weren't here, based on the date you joined)

It would be hard to imagine why a homosexual person would have this reaction to "the attacks". I'm not homosexual and I had to stop posting for a while because it just got that bad. Within 3 minutes of Kerry conceding, there were tons of posts that "the Gays cost us the election". The fact that the Republicans STOLE Ohio in the same way they STOLE Florida in 2000 cost us the election, not ANY platform we ran on (I'd like to point out that Kerry was against "gay marriage", but for "civil unions")

[LostinVA]

37. The NJ threads disgusted me

I almost left DU over that garbage, but I refused to let the trolls, moles, and so-called "Progressives" drive me away from the fight.

[Bassic]

73. Good call

Wouldn't be the same without you.

[LostinVA]

83. Thanks, Bassic

I like you too -- and I really mean that.



:pals:

[Bassic]

85. So do I

:pals:

:D

[purduejake]

13. Without an example, it's hard to reply.

But at least in my experience, something small may be said that gay people are sensitive to. Perhaps it wasn't meant to be offensive, but some people may misinterpret what's being said. Sometimes I do.

For example, I was talking with a straight man about discrimination and harassment based on sexual orientation today and suddenly he was talking about sexual "preference." All of a sudden, I think "This dude thinks I have a choice and accepted harassment and discrimination by choosing to become gay. Does he think I deserve THIS for coming out?"

To be honest, I'm not sure what his intentions were. We all say dumb things from time to time, but many gay people deal with these issues DAY after DAY after DAY at work, from our landlords, etc. Sometimes I can become a little sensitive and the LAST thing I feel like doing is having to explain myself to somebody who may look at me and roll his eyes. I try to explain things to people and they laugh and tell me I am stretching, or are too sensitive, etc. We all have bad days and sometimes people become very sensitive. Maybe this is what you are seeing? Maybe not?

[k_jerome]

15. i am not gay, but i will give you a summary...

it appears that most homophobes are themselves gay.

quite simple.

[Smarmie Doofus]

18. If that's really the issue, it's completely disingenuous....

... to present this as a simple case of hostility toward GLBTers since I've seen many of us GLBTers presuming, without any evidence and almost certainly fallaciously, exactly the same thing.

The obvious implication is that homosexuality ( repressed or otherwise) is lurking behind virtually all evil and craziness in the world. But if we indulge this kind of thinking ourselves, we can't be shocked if the rest of the world picks up on it.

[k_jerome]

19. just my summary. make of it what you will. nt.

[pnwmom]

26. I don't think that's the obvious implication.

I think many people are adopting the Freudian idea of projection: that when people hate something about themselves (such as being attracted to members of the same sex), they may project their inner hatred onto others. In other words, if you hate the gayness you perceive in yourself, you will hate gay people, too.

Of course, that doesn't mean that the reverse if true -- that all people who hate gay people must be gay themselves. But I think that kind of hatred does raise a question in many people's minds. What did Shakespeare say about protesting too much?

[cboy4]

24. delete.

my bad. sorry.

[Bluebear]

25. .

[cboy4]

27. Thanks BB

:blush:

[6000eliot]

29. I am gay, and that's not what I said at all.

[yardwork]

125. Do you have any evidence for that observation?

I have noticed a tendency for people to assume that if somebody is homophobic, "it must mean that they're gay themselves." Sometimes this has proven to be true, among certain high-profile fundamentalist Christian ministers, for example, but more often than not there is never any evidence.

Do we assume that somebody who is racist against African-Americans is "really black themselves?" Of course not. In fact, everybody knows that there many white people who have been extremely racist against African-Americans, to the point of killing them.

So why this assumption that a person biased against gay people must be gay?

[k_jerome]

156. hundreds of posts i have read. nt.

[treestar]

141. I didn't know that term was politically incorrect

And I consider myself fairly well informed.

There could be many people using that term and mean nothing by it.

I read an article once by a gay person who in fact said even if it is a choice, it's a choice people have the freedom to make. I thought that was a good point. You don't have to prove it's genetic. You can say whether it is or not, you should have your rights.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cboy4]

23. Wow, who pissed in your orange juice?

Is that even a saying? Hmmm. But it's funny....just like all of your malarkey.

How can you write that you "haven't been spending much time on DU these last few months," yet criticize the behavior of gay DUers and friends of gay DUers?

You haven't been around much to know about all of this alleged "vile, anger and contempt." REMEMBER?

You sound like you could be a reporter for FOX News. You know, write the story the way you want, even though you didn't attend the city council meetings.

By the way, we know who is on our side....and it's a lot more people than you would probably want to credit.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ThomCat]

56. You've got that right. The homophobic B.S. has been

piling up around here fast and deep.

1. We're all too sensitive. We need to lighten up.
2. We should shut up and wait until after elections to speak up or we'll be responsible for the loss.
3. We should listen to our straight "allies" and let them tell us how to act.
4. We should let our straight "allies" tell us what's homophobic and what's not.
5. Homophobic people are really gay, so it's all our fault we're hated.
6. Our equal rights are just a "special interest."
7. We choose to be gay, and now we're just choosing to be difficult.
8. Straight men have some reason to fear being raped in communal showers by brawny gay men.
9. Every bad person in the news is secretly gay.

Did I miss any of the major themes?

[LostinVA]

59. That's most of the biggies, yes

[asthmaticeog]

87. You completely nailed it.

If your post were an OP I'd be recommending it, no doubt. :thumbsup:

[ThomCat]

90. Good Idea.

I think I'll start a thread.

[Horse with no Name]

106. Just one.

The jailrape cheerleaders.

[Zuiderelle]

123. No way!

:grr: I have no words for that, except that I'm glad I missed it.

[RagingInMiami]

161. I surely can tell when its all directed towards me

I only speak for myself, I don't speak for anybody else. In fact, during the few times I've been here, it is from you that I've felt this attitude.

You happened to be at those city council meetings I attended.

[BlooInBloo]

30. Yup, and it's exactly as bigoted as 'reverse-racism'....

I don't recall receiving any bad feelings from gay folks based solely on the fact of my participation in threads about gay-relevant topics.

[xchrom]

31. ...

:rofl:

saddest op evah!

[dsc]

32. why oh why might gays get pissed

Could it be that some people posted that gays would sexually assult them in the shower? Could it be that we were constantly, for days, belittled over the Snickers ad, even after pointing out what the problem was? Could it be that we see umpteen threads about so and so is gay (always an evil person) with virtually no evidence (aside from his vileness)? Could it be that after the election we were blamed? Nah, can't be any of that. It must be that we hate straights. Give me a frigging break.

[liberati]

33. It's no more possible for a gay person to be "heterophobic" than it is for a African-American to....

be racist. :( It just doesn't compute.

[cali]

35. You're kidding right?

Being a member of an oppressed group doesn't confer some saintly status upon the members of said group. People are people, and they're flawed. Of course it's possible for someone who's gay or black to be prejudiced. Having said that, I disagree with the OP. I've not noticed the sentiments he's attributing to gay DUers.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

93. That was sarcasm, right?

Anybody can be racist, and I think "heterophobic" is a plausible concept.

[Hubert Flottz]

34. I thought the rule was "No More Sex Threads"

This is a political chat board, right?

[LostinVA]

39. How is the OP a sex thread???

[cboy4]

45. Cuz you know those homos....if they're not out in the bushes effing

each other, they're recruiting straight people to give the gay to.

You can't say "homosexual" without the "sex!!"

:wtf: is wrong with you LostinVA?

[LostinVA]

48. Sorry Cboy, sorry -- it's been a long week

[ronnykmarshall]

134. Oh by the way cboy4 ....

You left these behind after we had sex in the parking lot last night.

[ThomCat]

63. And equal rights and fair treatment for GLBT people isn't political?

:wtf:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

72. Um...since when do gay issues have nothing to do with politics?

Please enlighten me.

:eyes:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

86. sex is political and policed.

[Bluebear]

233. What a horribly unenlightened post.

So being gay is just about sex to you?

[LostinVA]

36. Jesus, Mary & Joseph

I nominate this as "Most Surreal Post of the Week."

[trumad]

40. I once entered the GLBT forum and promptly got the hell out

and I'm an ex San Franciscan with a whole bunch of Gay and Lesbian friends. I thought I knew how to talk the talk but apparently I still have a lot to learn as to not offend.

It's the sensitivity land minds that I'm still learning how to navigate around here on DU. I'm not saying it's a bad thing.... but it aint easy sometimes.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

47. How odd. I'm straight too, post there every once in a while and NEVER got any grief.

I wonder why.

[LostinVA]

49. Quite a few straight posters do, and nothing ever happens to them

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

50. Yeah, stange, innit? -nt

[trumad]

51. Well---I'm not exactly a wallflower.

I sometimes stumble in how I portray what I want to say, hence the offense.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

55. cos you aren't an asshole? maybe thats why.

:hi:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

57. There's a reason for that.

*Very* few straight posters get *any* grief in the GLBT forum. It's something that must be worked at.

[Pacifist Patriot]

135. I've never gotten grief there either.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

54. you were obnoxious and rude in your OP this is why you were prompted out

not cos we dont like heteros. thats BS.

you admitted that you were an ass and wrote an apology on GD.


:wtf:

[sniffa]

41. fun times

this thread is going pLaces.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

43. Ahem.

[GeorgeGist]

44. How magnanimous of you...

to think you represent heterosexuals.

[cboy4]

46. Oh snap.

;)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

52. maybe it started when we heard in 2004 that our rights werent important

then with the NJ rulings we heard we were the reason the dems would lose the senate/house

then with the homophobic add we heard we were overly sensitive



so maybe we just have good memories and can remember the "shut up and sit down" line .

[justiceischeap]

53. In response to the OP's question about heterophobia

I haven't been spending much time on DU these last few months (tonight is another reminder why), but I used to remember a DU that was not so divisive between gays and straights. But the last few times I've ventured into GD, I have witnessed sheer animosity from gays to straights.

Is there a such word as "heterophobia"?

No, there is no such thing as "heterophobia" but there is such a thing of not liking small-minded people. There is such a thing as standing up against hateful rhetoric. If you want to label those of us who stand up for ourselves as "heterophobes" to make yourself feel better for not stopping to look at our position or without doing a bit of research for our "uproar" then feel free to do so. I'll wear the label proudly because you have no clue what we've been going through since 2004 on DU.

[mondo joe]

58. Probably the same time Latino and African American topics became off limits to whites,

and roughly the same time women's issues became off limits for men.

[ThomCat]

60. Funny, no one has told me those issues are off limits

and I'm a white guy. It's self-righteous majority attitudes that belittle and justify prejudice that get shot down, not participation as a whole.

[mondo joe]

81. Then you haven't paid attention.

In virtually every thread that involves some racial or orientation disagreement, there are posts like "I love it when white people tell us what racism is" or "The Great White Father has spoken" or "Straight men are telling us what homophobia is".

I don't particularly like the tone of any of them, but since they are standard fare I don't see why if one exists they wouldn't all exist.

[ThomCat]

96. I often write posts like that.

And they're not aimed at all white people, or straight people, just at the ignorant people who dismiss the minority position entirely.

If someone speaks entirely from a privileged position and shows no regard for the minority experiences and perspectives he is speaking as a "great white father."

That's not shutting anyone out of the discussion. That's pointing out the repeated use of majority arrogance.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

61. They're not off-limits. We just like it if participants have half a clue.

And since you weren't here, you missed all the lovely homosexual discussions that have been around since the NJ supreme court ruling.

Yes, it has been a fantastic time to be gay on DU. Seriously, it's often like FR over here.

[Beelzebud]

66. It's like FR here? Then why do you come here?

Have you even looked at FR lately?

[ThomCat]

67. We come here

because we're democrats two, and we won't let self-righteous straight people throw us out.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

70. It didn't used to be this way. And certain posters on gay issues, yes, it is like FR.

Unless you consider things like, "you can tell a gay man because his dick tastes like shit" a progressive non-sequitor on gays. That is just one example of the level of discourse that takes place here at times.

[donco6]

185. I substantiate that post.

And it was exactly as haruka posted. Now just TRY to say that's not homophobic.

[terrya]

64. Where do I start?

1) We (gay and lesbians) were to blame for Kerry's loss in 2004. Remember THOSE fun times in GD after the election?

2) People here constantly using homosexuality as a weapon to slur Republicans. Way, way too numerous to mention.

3) The whole uproar over the Snicker's ads here and those of us who were pissed off about them repeatedly being told to "lighten up, you silly fags"

4) And you know...it's not like we gay people have been treated with dignity and respect throughout the course of human history. We've been treated with contempt from society at large, for the most part. And when we rightfully demand the same rights as heterosexuals, we're demonized and it's somehow necessary to enact constitutional amendments that are nothing but bigotry...to somehow "protect marriage"

When we are confronted with this kind of shit on an alleged progressive message board, what the fuck do you expect?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

69. terrya why are you throwing a "hissyfit"?

that was a good one.

[terrya]

78. My eyes were rolling involuntarily when I saw this thread.

Jesus.

[Beelzebud]

80. Someone actually called you a "silly fag" on DU?

Someone called you a "silly fag" over the Snickers ads? Insane...

I saw the ads as a slam on homophobes, and someone told me they questioned my humanity based on that.

I didn't see the ad as being anti-homosexual, but I certainly wouldn't frame my arguments as "lighten up, you silly fags."

I think the whole Snickers deal was much ado about nothing from both sides. When people call you a silly fag, or question your humanity based on how you view a subjective advertisement, then things have gone too far.

[Midlodemocrat]

150. Nice post, Terrya.

:applause:

And, as a straight, married, mom, I would like the OP to know that not everyone is on the side of the GLBT community. If they were, they wouldn't be so ready to toss you guys under the bus EVERY FUCKING TIME something comes up that might threaten our party.

I am so sick of the bigotry, I could puke.

[donco6]

186. We should expect better, that's what.

These are people who should know better - or who should at least IMAGINE that they could be wrong in patting us on the head and telling us we're "overreacting."

[ThomCat]

65. Bullshit.

There are a number of straight people who are always welcome on all GLBT related threads. Then there are some who always show up and spout thinly veiled justificatins for bigotry.

I guess we're just getting "uppity" recently and standing up to the bullshit more often recently. How dare we! :eyes:

[Deja Q]

68. Because only some people have the 'RIGHT' to talk about it, and those people

are only allowed one POV. And if what you say doesn't agree with their beliefs, word for word, watch out... it's painful.

Some of the GLBTs around here attack other GLBT folks here with as much vitriol. (and then wonder why those attacked stop caring about the cause... :think: )

I'm sorry you were treated so badly. I haven't read up on your entire situation, but you're not the only one who gets spat on just because they post a slightly different viewpoint.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

74. oh brother

[cboy4]

75. Is that you Mother Teresa?

:eyes:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

79. hello promiscuous gay man. how are you today?

have you slept with your required 50 men today ? :sarcasm:

[cboy4]

82. I'm stopping at 25 for now....havta head to the local elementary school

to recruit some children into our *chosen* "lifestyle."

Thanks for asking! :hi:

[Nicole]

148. Slacker!

:P

:hi:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

76. Ah, memories.

Let's face it, it doesn't really matter who lays an attack on the GLBT community, but they will get called on it.

[sniffa]

91. yep yep

i don't even know what to say to him... so i'LL just :eyes:

[Puglover]

84. Oh Christ on a crutch.

Most surreal post ever.


:eyes:

[carolinayellowdog]

110. Eight personal attacks in half an hour tend to validate

what you say about vitriol.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

114. Perhaps you weren't around for the vitirol he spewed at us.

It was bad and he was called on it. Now he's playing the victim.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

116. its not personal when we are quoting from what he has spewed about the community

calling my gay brothers promiscuous because he cant get a commitment is a personal attack on my community.

[Puglover]

153. Believe me the vitriol is well deserved.

Unfortunately many here enable the behavior.

[Bluebear]

126. Don't gay men spit at you in bars too? So it's not only GLBT "around here"

Why are people spitting at you wherever you go? I am concerned.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

128. funniest thing i have heard all day

:rofl:

[NMMNG]

231. Oh my

Some of the GLBTs around here attack other GLBT folks here with as much vitriol.

Gee, been looking in the mirror again? :sarcasm:

[Touchdown]

77. I've seen your photos RIM...

You are talented, and an excellent photo journalist. As a fellow snapper, I get jealous of your work, especially Cuba. But most of all...I've seen you in a few shots, and this gay guy thinks your hotter than hot! You are hot Hot HOT!!! I drink Heineken too!:P

Actually, I don't know what you're talking about in this post.

[RagingInMiami]

98. Thanks for all your compliments

And another thing we have in common is Ireland. I am not Irish, but I spent almost two years living there, loving every minute of it.

[Touchdown]

109. Never been there, but I will.

I pore over photo books of Erin. Just beautiful.

I think the problem most of us have (and I'm included) is that this idea that any homophobe is automatically assumed to be gay himself. Of course this never translates to Phyllis Schlafly or Laura Schlessinger. It seems to always be male. As in Karl Rove, or John Ashcroft.

While that certainly may be true in some cases, as in Ted Haggard or the Spokane Wa. mayor, it's next to impossible for it to be a universal truth, but the meme sticks around here and it's hard to for us to break it.

For me to believe that every homophobe is gay, then I would also have to believe that every KKK member wants to be black, and that Rep. Tom Tancredo secretly wants to cross the Arizona desert to pick lettuce for $2 an hour. Sometimes bigotry is just bigotry. No need to think of any underlying motives. I get as tired of the memes as most on this thread have.

But, I for one, would be honored to call you a friend, and the next time I go to Florida, I'd love to go shooting with you.:toast:

[RagingInMiami]

163. I don't believe every homophobe is gay

But I've known people who have been very vocal about their homophobia when it was always suspect that they were gay themselves.

But speaking of Tancredo, he may not want to pick lettuce for $2 an hour, but he is the grandson of Italian immigrants, who were subjected to the same discrimination that Mexican immigrants deal with today. So I do see a bit of self-hate in him when he talks about immigrants.

It doesn't mean he isn't a bigot. It just means he is a self-hating bigot, which is even worse.

And definitely let me know when you come down here. I'll show you all my favorite shooting spots and I'll even introduce to a few gay friends of mine. Over a few rounds of Heineken, of course.

[Marie26]

88. So.... snake pit? nt

[LostinVA]

89. Do you mean the OP?

Hehehehhehehe

[Marie26]

92. Yep.

Hey, LostinVa. :hi:

[LostinVA]

103. Hey, Marie!

hehehehhehehe

[RagingInMiami]

97. Please explain

As that went over my head

[Marie26]

113. OK

Awhile ago, someone proposed a "snake pit" where we could drop divisive, inflammatory, &/or flamebait threads. I didn't like the idea, but I did like the name & have often mentally assigned threads into that category. This thread belongs in the snake pit. We have no idea of the context of your complaint - did you say something innocent, or something horrible? What inspired the reaction? Were you treated unfairly or simply called on a homophobic remark? Who knows? If you were treated unfairly in a thread, I'd defend your comments there. But here, we simply have no idea what you are talking about, or how valid your complaint is, we just know you are starting a new thread because you're upset about... something. It's fairly self-aggrandizing. In general, I just don't like these "why are people so unfair to me" threads.

All of us have blind spots & mistaken assumption; it's inevitable. That's why it's important to really just listen to what people are saying. If you're truly "on their side", try to understand where someone is coming from, why they feel the way they do, how you might have inadvertently hurt someone, and maybe create some understanding & common ground. Maybe you'll agree, & see a new way of looking at things; maybe you'll disagree. But starting a new thread to complain about reactions on a separate thread doesn't help to create any understanding, it just creates divisiveness & anger. And the title here is totally divisive & obnoxious - "Since when are homosexual topics off-limits to heterosexuals on DU?" I've never noticed that any topic is off-limits; everyone is free to post what they want & everyone is accountable for it.

[RagingInMiami]

166. Thanks for filling me in

[sweetheart]

94. 'cuz maybe some people find sexuality carnal and not of interest in conversation?

Do i have to care? I want equal rights for all persons, indeed, but given
the realpolitik circumstances, gay people in the USA have it, by world standards,
pretty damn good, and it can always be better, just as with women, cannabis smokers,
disabled people, veterans, drunks, tobacco smokers and a load of preyed-upon political
minorities. In this regard, more gay people should run for office and overturn the
silly media laws that make us all have to fucking care about sexuality?

Can we not for a while? Are people really that bodily focused that they identify with
what they do and do not want to fuck and this is their baisis for identity? Maybe love
just is between souls and the state should stay the hell out of it, my libertarian view,
truth be told. Do people ever get over their genitals?

So much of life is beyond sexuality, inside it, and connected to it, tantrically,
but beyond it for purposes of progressives. And then, if people want a room to have
sex in on DU, maybe a forum can be arranged, but does anyone really care? It seems the
result of a pervasive propaganda of youth-sexuality to sell corporate products, that
we all care so much about sexual identity? One day, we will be old, and die, and at some
point along that path, sexuality will cease to be with us. It is a transitory illusion
that began and will end, substantial, but transitory.

We love who we love and are with them, that is free will. Love and life are so much more
than the transitory illusion of sexuality, so very much more, and pining us to identify
with the corporate desire-body and its resulting viral afflictions of overcaring about
physical bodies for the withering spirit.

[LeftishBrit]

247. Yes, but the whole point is that the state DOESN'T stay the hell out of it

The same Republicans who claime to hate 'big government' are trying to create a constitutional amendment - not just a law which could be fairly easily reversed, but a constitutional amendment -to define marriage as between a man and a woman, and thus outlaw gay marriage. Some of them have gone so far as to support 'sodomy laws' regulating people's private behaviour. Bush got re-elected (or nearly enough to make the dubious Ohio vote crucial), to a large extent because of churches and religious groups demanding that their flock get out to defeat those evil Democrats who support sinful actions like gay marriage and abortion.

In the UK, gays could be sent to prison for their sexuality until the 1960s, and do you remember Tebbit and the Daily Mail going into hysterics in the 1980s about those evil schools 'supporting' homosexuality, and Parliament passing a law ('Section 28') to ban schools from 'promoting homosexuality'. (Of course, few teachers are likely to actively promote *any* sort of sexual behaviour in their pupils; but the law was broad enough to make it difficult for schools to discourage pupils from bullying other pupils for being gay.)

When government does stay the hell out, and when homophobia stops being one of the main Republican selling-points in the USA, that's when it may become a personal/sexual, rather than political, issue.

I agree that more gay people should run for office; but one of the problems is that it is very difficult for openly gay people to be accepted as candidates and elected. I think this is truer in the USA than in the UK. Here, it's unlikely that a gay person could yet become Prime Minister; but openly gay people have been MPs and cabinet ministers. But as recently as 1983, Tatchell was viciously smeared in the Bermondsey election for being gay, and was defeated partly for that reason.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

95. You missed a lot in the past few months.

The Snickers ad/incident was understandably attacked on this board. However, some straight posters, in response, brushed aside the controversy.

Many gay DUers didn't have a problem with the straight DUers' own personal reactions to the ad, per se, but they did have a problem with the belittlement of THEIR viewpoint, i.e., "get over it," "it wasn't offensive, and that's that," etc. In other words, some straight DUers failed to even empathize with the viewpoint of gay DUers, despite the fact that the straight DUers don't have the same personal perspective in common with them, and therefore are in a much weaker position in terms of understanding the sheer offensiveness of the ad.

It would be the equivalent of a white person telling a minority that something isn't racist when the overwhelming majority of minorities DO think it is.

Personally, I'm a straight guy, but if gay people tell me something is offensive to them, I'll take their word for it.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

99. Good post.

Thank you.

:hug:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

100. Of course.

:hug: :hi:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

101. this is why i think you are adorable, not because you agree with me

but because you think my opinion should be heard.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

102. Thanks, Pri.

:hi:

[LostinVA]

104. I love my EVOO Man!!!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

105. Love ya, too!

:hug:

[lumberjack_jeff]

206. "The Snickers incident"

THIS straight poster felt that people were attacked for not being outraged. In essence, there was more outrage toward ambivalent folks about their absence of outrage, than there was toward Mars.

For someone without a horse in a given race it's a no-win situation. It's dishonest to embrace someone else's outrage, but it's insensitive to not do so.

Disagreeing is not necessarily belittling, but yes, I do acknowledge that empathy often requires conscious effort.

[ScreamingMeemie]

107. It is hard to believe we are really "on their side" when we continuously

ask them to shut up about their issues and look at the "big picture". When we ask them to vote for candidates that may not represent them... to stand with us on other issues...and they DO. Across the board. And yet we still treat them as second class. Yaaay! We love them as long as they're staying in line, but let one of them speak up and forget it. I'm sorry, it becomes more apparent that it isn't support, it's lip service and pandering.

[LostinVA]

111. Thank you for your continual and open support, MrsG

I love you.

[ScreamingMeemie]

122. You're worth every word.

I've posted it before and I'll post it again. You've always had my back...I'll always have yours. We're in this together.

[Scout1071]

108. I couldn't agree with you more.

I have been the recipient for some of this treatment myself.

The funny thing is that I've never told anyone on DU what my preference is! There is just an assumption, followed by an attack. I'm finding it more and more pointless. In return, I find myself on DU less.

[lukasahero]

112. That's funny - I'm straight

and don't feel any animosity from the gay community here. Maybe it's because I actually listen to their point of view instead of shoving my limited understanding as the be-all and end-all truth of their experience? :shrug:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

115. Amazing, isn't it?

And thank you for listening.

[LostinVA]

117. But -- but -- you HAVE to be gay

You have a gay avatar!

As I said in another thread -- THANK YOU. Trust me, LAH, your posts are noted and appreciated.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

121. Yeah, what's up with these straight people with the gay avatars?

They're confusing the other straight people.

:rofl:

[lukasahero]

175. Some of us like to confuse the really straight straights.

It's like low hanging fruit - an easy target. :evilgrin:

[ThomCat]

179. You're calling straight people

"low hanging fruit?"

They wish. :rofl:

[lukasahero]

177. I know babe

:hug:

[Pacifist Patriot]

137. This whole situation caught me by surprise.

I've never experienced the animosity either.

[hunter]

118. Gee. People express homophobic or racist views and get called on it.

Imagine that.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

119. yeah imagine it.

[Zuiderelle]

120. Hateful language like that doesn't make us feel that you are on our side.

Do you ever wonder where our anger comes from? Maybe from the constant barrage of hate and condescension and post like yours. Certainly turned me angry to read that shit.

That's all I will say because I don't think I can express my anger well enough without offending poor little heterosexual you. :eyes:

[RagingInMiami]

129. Contempt breeds contempt

[Zuiderelle]

131. Interesting word. Contempt.

Contempt towards gay people breeds more contempt from others towards gay people. I agree with that.

Even though I know that's not what you meant. You are wearing your contempt on your sleeve. I hope for your sake that you learn something from this, but I suspect you will not.

Peace to you. I do hope that you support gay equality despite your obvious disdain for gay DUers.

[RagingInMiami]

145. My contempt is towards a small group of gay DUers who have shown contempt for me

It has nothing to do with their sexual orientation because in all honesty, I couldn't care less who sleeps with whom. It has to do with their attitude towards me.

[jonnyblitz]

152. when you make crazy assertions expect to be called on it

because we aren't going to shut up about it no matter how many of you wish we would!

[RagingInMiami]

155. It would have been much more productive to simply inform me

of my "crazy assertions" without all the damn snark.

I did not mean to flame or insult anybody with my initial thread. Perhaps I was being naive or uninformed about gay issues, but that does not give anybody the right to make me pay for all the perceived bigotry that had been previously displayed on DU.

I have always defended gay rights and I fully support gay marriage. But when you say crap like "because we aren't going to shut up about it no matter how many of you wish we would!" that does nothing but create further divisions among us.

Save that attitude for the real bigots.

[Zuiderelle]

164. "Naive and uninformed"... How long have you been on this progressive site?

How on earth could you be so uninformed?

You complain that others snark, but all I've read from you in this thread is snark and defensive posturing and a willful ignorance of everything every gay person, and straight gay-supporters, have said to you.

Save your bigotry. Please.

[Name removed]

165. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zuiderelle]

167. Now that's a nice example of contempt.

Have a wonderful ignorant life. Holy shit.

[RagingInMiami]

168. Did you expect to call me a bigot

And for me to just sit here and accept that?

[Name removed]

170. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RagingInMiami]

171. You've seen the light

And you're obviously blinded by it.

[Zuiderelle]

172. *click*

Congratulations on being the sole member of my ignore list. Your kind of dialogue is nothing but destructive to our issues. I don't need to read any more of your shit. :hi:

[RagingInMiami]

173. I hope that means you will stop posting on this thread

[Bluebear]

136. Nice.

[LostinVA]

140. I have seen no organic contempt from gays towards heterosexuals on DU

I have, however, seen lots of the reverse.

Are you ACTUALLY trying to play the victim here?

GIGGLE

[sniffa]

146. y'know, i'm reaLLy fucking tired of this shit

[foreigncorrespondent]

176. Interesting theory that...

...but I have to say it really isn't true. I don't hold any straights on contempt but I see many here at DU who don't give me the same courtesy just because of who I happen to love.

Ya know people will get a lot further in life if they would stop judging books by covers.

[HuffleClaw]

124. erm...

i guess it depends on what one calls 'honest discussion and debate' and i've gotta say the phrase 'a deeper understanding of the issues that affect them' raises my eyebrows more than a tad.

[Unvanguard]

127. Perhaps because

we're questioning how much you really ARE on our side... and how much you just want to feel nice and tolerant and liberal as you cast your ballot for gay marriage (only when it doesn't hurt "our" electoral chances, of course.)

Not ALL of you, of course... there are plenty of sincere, non-homophobic straight people. Just some.

[IronLionZion]

130. Since the war is off-topic to civilians

and abortion is off-topic to men and lesbians, civil rights is off-topic to whites, religion is off-topic to atheists/agnostics, working class issues are off-topic to the middle class, the south is off-topic to northerners, circumcision is off-topic to women, economic issues are off-topic to anyone who works for/is/invests in a corporation, and so on.

Just go ahead and tell me your gender, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, annual income, location, age, everything really and I'll tell YOU what you can talk about m'kay? The last thing we want is open communication and the free exchange of ideas. :sarcasm:


This is all so silly. :silly: I wish there were a peace rally or something here in Minneapolis I could go to. Maybe I should just bring a book to the office and read it. Meanwhile, I'm going to paint. http://www.jacksonpollock.org/

[DuaneBidoux]

132. I posted a question about marriage vs. unions and did it really matter..

I wanted to know really how the community felt in order to formulate an opinion closest to that of "the" (which of course "the" community doesn't exist) gay community. I wanted to know becasue I was wondering if the Dems should be willing to spend political capital and possibly lose power because of this single issue.

Anyway, I made more detailed follow up questions and after a while all the responses turned hostile so I simply dropped out (but I did form the opinion that for most gay folks it is important enough to be able to marry--and thus that is now my position).

The funny thing is that I was able to have the exact same conversations with several of my friends who are gay and they were totally cool with the conversation and me. I started wondering if maybe it wasn't the trust that was built up because we were friends, and the body language that communicates deeper messages beyond words--something that can't exist here.

[LostinVA]

142. Sel Delete

[La Lioness Priyanka]

147. i remember your thread. it got ugly because some ass decided to weigh in

on whether or not being gay was a choice

[lukasahero]

174. Good job

It sounds like you asked questions, got answers and machanged your perspective based on those answers.

Some thoughts...

Re: the "hostility" here. I would imagine being on this board and having your rights questioned as worthy of "spending political capital" on day after day gets more than a little wearing. (In fact, as a woman, I can damn well say it does.) Try to bear the history of the board in mind when discussing sensitive issues and you will avoid the "hostility".

Re: the trust built up with your friends. Valid observation. I will, however, counter that said trust is possible here. Many people on this board pay attention to user names. We make note of those who constantly question our rights as well as those who support them. Friendships are formed in light of that and some of the friendships I've made here are just as valid as those I've made "in real life". It's all in your hands - how much you value the relationships you make/nurture here. Yes, it's all so anonymous but it doesn't have to be valueless.

[DuaneBidoux]

241. In reality, on that particular thread it became hard to tell where the hostility was coming from and

who it was going to. After a while it seemed a little like one of those cartoon images of a fight where you see this cloud of dust and debris and know something bad is going on inside. Then occasionally you see a claw or a head come flying out before diving back in.

I realized it was a sensitive issue and did begin to feel I didn't have the right to even be discussing it with these people who had obviously suffered a great deal in a way that I could only guess at.

[LeftyMom]

138. They aren't.

I've found that thoughtful and considerate posts on GLBT issues from straight DUers are definitely appreciated.

[TroglodyteScholar]

139. I love DU's gay folks...

...even the ones with chips on their shoulders. Is there any more natural response to being treated like a second-class citizen?

And really, this should be obvious to anyone -- heteros pretty much are the enemy, even if it's not all of us.

[Pacifist Patriot]

143. How can we be on their side?

When we sacrifice their treatment as fellow human beings worthy of dignity and respect for a few political points.

There is no bigger picture when any group of people is being oppressed. It's simply indicative of a larger systemic problem. Our social mores are predicated on a destructive power structure taking the form of control, exploitation and oppression.

I may seem idealistic rather than politically pragmatic, but I'm of the opinion we're witnessing such dogmatism and dictatorial maneuverings precisely because the destructive power structure is breaking down. There will come a day when bi-polar agential and receptive power becomes the norm. I'd like to be part of making it happen sooner rather than later.

[knight_of_the_star]

144. Wow

That was tossing a bucket of blood in a shark tank.

[ThomCat]

154. Good analogy.

I think you got it right.

[knight_of_the_star]

169. I don't know why people post stuff like that

Not so much the subject matter as people posting up threads on something they want to talk about in a deliberately provocative fashion. If they want a good discussion, that's one thing, but there isn't much point aside from pointing and laughing to using the proverbial chum bucket.

[Nicole]

149. I've never been told homosexuals topics are off limit to me, a heterosexual woman

I've never had any animosity directed at me by the gay members here either. Quite the contrary, more than once it's been a straight member who directed animosity at me for supporting our gay members.

[Midlodemocrat]

151. Heterophobia? Seriously?

When gays get the same rights as the straight community, THEN we might be able to suggest that there is such a thing, but as of right now, no, no, a thousand times no.

I have rights and privileges that the GLBT community can only dream about right now and it is a black mark on the heart of America. Discriminating against someone based on WHO THEY LOVE is so inhumane, it is sub-human.

We, as the heterosexual community, need to LISTEN to the GLBT community. Try to empathize with their struggles and their pain, in exactly the same way that the enlightened white community listened and empathized with the black community before the Civil Rights Act.

We are all PEOPLE. We should all have the same rights. End. Of. Story.

[RagingInMiami]

157. Jesus Christ

Who the fuck is saying they should not have the same rights? I have yet to see anybody on DU -- who was not a troll asking to be banned -- that insisted that homosexuals are not entitled to the same rights as heterosexuals.

[Midlodemocrat]

158. But sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.

If there are posters with over 1000 posts that have been here for years spouting stuff similar to what I have said, what is the GLBT community to think?

Sure, some get banned, but some don't.

[justiceischeap]

160. I see your Jesus Christ and raise you a Jesus H. Christ

No one may have come right out and written those exact words but it's the attitude of those that haven't been banned or aren't trolls that blame us for losing the last election, who say we overreact to commercials, tell us the way we vote is incorrect. I could go on.

[Catherine Vincent]

159. I've received some of their scolding in the past.

But it wasn't vile or anything like that. We were just in disagreement. Just keep in mind we all are on the same side whether it's GLBT issues or democratic elections.

[WindRavenX]

162. part of the problem is that straights are asking the GLBT community to shut up

Were you around during the Nj marriage debates? Because many straights said straight up they disagreed with the ruling simply because it might cost the Democrats their November victory.

That's both homophobic and horribly crude to suggest that an entire community's rights be put on hold for political reasons.

Part of the problem is that heterosexuals don't realize the inherent privledges they get with being straight--while most may not mean any harm or offense, when someone who is not a member of the GLBT community tells us not to be offended (like the Snicker's ad), it is both offensive and arrogant. I was offended. My queer friends were offended. My straight friends, for the most part, told me to "get over it".

That's why there's a lot of pain right now, imo.

[sniffa]

180. ...

:hug: :loveya:

[Bluebear]

181. kick

[susanna]

182. OMG. This whole thread is just amazing.

I didn't realize what was happening at DU the last couple days.

You know what? We should all focus on our differences instead of on our similarities! Seriously. It is the only way to get ahead.

Okay. I'm done channeling Stewart and Colbert. The arguments may continue. Have fun! :sarcasm:

[Bluebear]

184. What's even more fascinating:

The thread you are on is not flamebait.

But this one is:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x225444

[Tatiana]

190. Same here. I didn't get what the big fuss was over.

Now, it's like OMG. I finally get it. Some of the responses in this thread are really mind-blowing.

I'm not gay, but if I was, I'd feel like I just had a knife stabbed in my back by someone I thought was my comrade-in-arms.

Unbelievable. I'm so totally shocked... and disappointed.

:(

[bridgit]

187. i work in theater arts, my husband is an artist, the vast majority of our friends...

are G&L, they have successful, working careers in the arts as well but tend to frown on 'flaming excess' preferring to live their lives peacefully, they are seasoned & maturated and so; comfortable in their own skins...

i know after posting here for awhile, that my G&L friends have spoiled me in that they do not chastise hubby or myself for being "breeders" quite the contrary, they affirm instead: we are all human beings

i'd like to see more of that here at DU :)

[Name removed]

189. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bridgit]

193. well, it certainly is all too so very tiring and there are tremendous issues...

facing every single one of us; fluttering into our faces face first & en mass whether gay, straight, bi, transgender, celibate, a-sexual, carnivore, omnivore, herbivore, vegan, love kids, wouldn't have kids, can't have kids, middle, left, extreme left, extreme middle, whatever; and it just sucks all the oxygen right out of the room imo

i've known strife & chaos, now i'm seeking peace in my life, that's my little mission :)

[donco6]

191. And how do they react when, say . . .

. . . someone comes up and says: "How can you tell when you're sucking a gay man's dick? It tastes like shit." You think that might ruffle up all that peace and maturity?

That's an actual post, by the way. Just run it by them and see . . . we'll wait.

[bridgit]

194. negative, if that is the case you are traveling in the wrong circles...

[donco6]

239. It was a post here . . . today.

So if you're referring to wrong circles, you're referring to the GD forum at DU.

[Bluebear]

192. P.S. Why do you think DU gays don't have working careers & that we live in "flaming excess"?

Just curious how you make that assumption, is it because DU gays tend to speak up more than in real life? I think it's easier to be perceived as "mouthy" here because it is easier to bring things up "in print" that one wouldn't feel comfortable addressing in the real world.

[bridgit]

195. *that* assumption is utterly & completely yours...

[Bluebear]

196. I took it from your post, your reallife G & L friends versus the folks here?

Did I read that wrong?

[bridgit]

198. yes, you read it wrong...

[donco6]

236. Don't you love how people do that?

Like we can't go back and read her post right there:

" are G&L, they have successful, working careers in the arts as well but tend to frown on 'flaming excess' preferring to live their lives peacefully, they are seasoned & maturated and so; comfortable in their own skins..."

As juxtaposed with . . . here. Here, where people live in "flaming excess". Here where people aren't "comfortable in their own skins."

Blech.

[jonnyblitz]

197. you just IMPLIED what he said in your batshit crazy post!!

jesus. :crazy: :crazy:

[bridgit]

199. what; thee; fuck; ever dude...

:rofl:

[donco6]

237. It's pretty clear in your post.

And I'm not laughing.

[bridgit]

244. this was clear in my post as well...

"quite the contrary, they affirm instead: we are all human beings

i'd like to see more of that here at DU"

why have you not understood?

[blonndee]

200. If I may, then, what does your mention of "flaming excess" have to do with anything at all

if you are NOT referring to DUers? Since the OP is about DU and all? And since you explictly compare that to what you find at DU? Not enough "docile gays" here for you? Or is that just another "assumption" that has nothing to do with the very words that you wrote?

You wrote,

"i work in theater arts, my husband is an artist, the vast majority of our friends...are G&L, they have successful, working careers in the arts as well but tend to frown on 'flaming excess' preferring to live their lives peacefully, they are seasoned & maturated and so; comfortable in their own skins...

i know after posting here for awhile, that my G&L friends have spoiled me in that they do not chastise hubby or myself for being "breeders" quite the contrary, they affirm instead: we are all human beings

i'd like to see moire of that here at DU :)

[Bluebear]

201. I didn't think I was completely crazy, The poster is wishing DU gays would be like her theatre pals

Right?

[bridgit]

203. BluebearHoney, i think blonndee was posting to me but clearly i can be wrong...

everybody knows that :shrug:

[Bluebear]

205. OK honey, sorry for addressing blonndee

:eyes:

[bridgit]

207. it's all good n'da hood...

[blonndee]

210. Yep, all those gays gotta be good and behave!

And dear, you respond to me whenever and wherever you like, okay? I know that you will. :)

[Bluebear]

211. XOXOX

[bridgit]

202. oh honey, there are bars here in town my friends are not able to take me into...

but were i to relate a consensus of stories conveyed you would understand better perhaps, plus things i've seen with my eyes = to each his/her own...but i'm not rising to that bait either sorry ~

i am simply referring to my life experience and clearly that does not matter to anyone here still, these exchanges are imo making ample demonstration of the contentious, on-going matters the OP referred to i'll give you that

[blonndee]

204. Wha???

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[bridgit]

208. cool...

[blonndee]

209. Well, THAT explains what you meant.

Except that it completely doesn't.

[sniffa]

212. oh honey, you're insane posts

don't heLp the OP at aLL.

[bridgit]

213. thanks pal...

[sniffa]

214. no probLem sweet cheeks

i <3 u

[bridgit]

215. hey wait a minute...

i thought you had me on ignore, what's the dealio; i went to send you a pm and couldn't :cry: oh never mind, it's prolly cause you hate my dumb-ass ;)

[blonndee]

216. Prolly so. n/t

[bridgit]

217. now you're just being nasty how sweet...

[blonndee]

218. Not at all. Just agreeing with you! n/t

[bridgit]

219. oooh, Miss Jackson if you're nasty...

[blonndee]

220. Put Down the Vodka and Tonic...

and Step Away From the Keyboard. :rofl:

[bridgit]

222. if you agree to drop your crack pipe...

:spray:

[blonndee]

225. Okay, fine. *I'M* the one posting incoherently. Dear, I think the question of who has a problem

substance or otherwise is quite clear. Although I don't wish to engage in personal attacks should that be your problem. But if you want to keep it up, that's up to you, now isn't it?

[bridgit]

226. you're just not able to understanding plain english you're not prepared...

to agree with before you hear, but it's cool...most americans are talking past one another already

[blonndee]

227. Speaking of that, you never really did answer my question about "flaming excess" now did you? n/t

[bridgit]

228. i've long since decided you are not able to absorb the gist...

of my life experience

[blonndee]

229. So you can't answer the question? Or don't want to?

I'm not the least bit interested in your so-called "life experience" or deflecting posts. Can you answer the question or not? If not, I'll add you to my ignore list like so many other good posters have done because I don't care to read incoherent PWIs.

[bridgit]

230. what question?

and i give a ratz ass if you ignore me

[blonndee]

232. Oh, so you've already forgotten? That's a symptom of PWI. And I don't enable PWI.

The first step is admitting you have a problem, you know. I suggest you either reread the thread and figure out just when you and I started conversing, if you're able, OR, go to bed and revisit this topic in the morning to avoid the embarrassing consequences of PWI. :rofl:

Since I don't enable PWI and find conversing with those who engage in PWI utterly fruitless and a waste of time, I bid you goodbye and ignore. You just keep on if you wish...I caution you, though...only one of us is making sense, and it ain't you. :hi:

[bridgit]

234. PWI, PWI, PWI, PWI...what are you, a fucking parrot...

grow the hell up

[donco6]

240. Ain't THAT the truth.

"You just keep on if you wish...I caution you, though...only one of us is making sense, and it ain't you."

Sheesh. I think somebody's had tee many martoonies.

[sniffa]

221. obviousLy i don't have you on ignore

:shrug:

are you trying to fLirt with me?

[blonndee]

223. LOLOLOL

OMFG!!! :toast:

[bridgit]

224. hmmm...

:blush: please do tell the Mrs. & b_baby i said, "Howdy!"

[donco6]

238. So, when you post something offensive -

e.g., referring to DU gays as living in "flaming excess" and "not comfortable in our own skins" (which I take to mean we don't just sit back and take it when someone makes dumbass comments about us), then it's OUR fault for making "contentious" posts in response.

Jesus. That logic is so turned on it's head, it's unbelievable.

[NMMNG]

242. Is this a serious post?

Because I can't believe that you're claiming that DUers are unsucssesful people driven to "flaming excess".

[bridgit]

243. oh yes, this is a very serious post, and what i find the most reveling...

is the insistence of members here @ DU, to refuse to comprehend in sum total the experiences of others, and to remain instead ignorant of the essential core of the post itself, quoting here...

"...quite the contrary, they affirm instead: we are all human beings

i'd like to see more of that here at DU"

but i will be consulting with DU GD mods to answer certain of these issues especially when in order to do so i will be called upon to explain in detail...

in addition, no where in that original post of mine was it mentioned that gay DU'ers are worthless and have no jobs, or live in flaming excess quite the contrary; as i have been referred to as "insane", and a substance abuser, and i find that rather telling indeed as to the mind-set of some claiming to be champions of this issue

the extent to which some have been willing to travel so far afield with this subject of 'no job/flaming excess', may be the extent to which that passage is true at all; or as it applies to some...but that assumption is clearly the assumption of others and not me

[Zuiderelle]

245. Using the word "flaming" tends to get our shackles up.

You know... given that it's such a loaded and untrue stereotype.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying. That all the flaming DUers (and where are they anyway, I haven't seen them) should be instantly seasoned and mature because you say so. How about everyone else. I'd like to see a lot more maturity from a bunch of straight people here. But that's not going to happen. And I don't judge all straight DUers by the sophomoric few that annoy me either.

Seems like you are implying that the majority gay DUers aren't mature. And I think that's offensive. From what I've witnessed in the short time I've been here, I've seen a hell of a lot more immature (and yes, flaming) straight DUers.

Oh well.

[bridgit]

246. "...they affirm instead: we are all human beings...

"...i'd like to see more of that here at DU"

it is a faithless hope on my part, that others might agree

agreed, oh well ~

[Zuiderelle]

248. So, you don't address your use of the term "flaming"

Of course we are all human beings. But that doesn't explain why you used a phrase like "flaming excess" to describe the type of homosexual that your mature gay friends despise, in response to THIS thread. This is a thread complaining that this person has been treated with "vile, anger and contempt from many in DU's gay community." Many, not some. Not a few. Many. Your response seems to be agreeing with him. I've been gay a very long time, and I've met a few men who could be described as "flaming" (although I still object to anyone but those in the gay community using that term), but the majority of gay men are completely "normal," in fact more mature than most straight people given the same factors of upbringing, eduction, etc., because they have had to deal with so much hate and conflict in their lives. And I have never in my entire life met a flaming lesbian.

What is "flaming excess" anyway? Decorating your 10,000 sq home with gold-filigreed statues of venus and david? I've never seen any "excess" in the lives of the gay people I've known. And I've known hundreds.

[Common Sense Party]

188. Whatever made you think DU was a bastion of peace, love,

tolerance and understanding?

The Lounge is about the only place that comes remotely close to qualifying.

[NMMNG]

235. They aren't

Heterosexuals are fine. :-)

Homophobes and other such jerks are a definite problem though.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

249. I'm going to lock this.

This has become a circular firing squad & flamed out.

Would DUers with the User ID of "name removed" please reread the civility rules