AIDE TO RICE: Refuses To Rule Out "TORTURE"-"A Decision Was Made NOT To Talk About It"

[kpete]

Top US legal adviser refuses to rule out 'torture' technique


Aide to Rice declines to denounce waterboarding during Guardian America debate

Transcript: 'A decision was made not to talk about it'
Audio: listen to the debate in full
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2204442,00.html

Ed Pilkington in New York
Monday November 5, 2007
The Guardian


The top legal adviser within the US state department, who counsels the secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, on international law, has declined to rule out the use of the interrogation technique known as waterboarding even if it were applied by foreign intelligence services on US citizens. John Bellinger refused to denounce the technique, which has been condemned by human rights groups as a form of torture, during a debate on the Bush administration's stance on international law held by Guardian America, the Guardian's US website. He said he would not include or exclude any technique without first considering whether it violated the convention on torture.

The inability of a senior US official to rule out such an interrogation method even in the case of it being used against Americans underlines the legal knots in which the administration has tied itself. The dispute over alleged US involvement in torture has threatened to derail the confirmation of Michael Mukasey as President George Bush's nominee for attorney general. Mr Mukasey, a retired federal judge, faces a confirmation vote from the Senate judiciary committee tomorrow and is facing opposition from Democratic members over his stance on waterboarding. In earlier hearings, Mr Mukasey said he found the method repugnant, but refused to declare it illegal. There has been speculation that he refrained from doing so out of fear that such a declaration would expose US interrogators, as well as their chain of command, possibly up to the level of the president, to possible criminal prosecution.

..................

Mr Bellinger made his remarks during a Guardian debate with Philippe Sands QC, professor of international law at University College London. Mr Sands asked whether he could imagine any circumstances in which waterboarding could be justified on an American national by a foreign intelligence service. "One would have to apply the facts to the law to determine whether any technique, whatever happened, would cause severe physical pain or suffering," Mr Bellinger said.

..............

When Mr Sands said he found Mr Bellinger's inability to exclude waterboarding on Americans very curious, the US official replied: "Well, I'm not willing to include it or exclude it. Our justice department has concluded that we just don't want to get involved in abstract discussions."

more at:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2205187,00.html

[Solly Mack]

1. K&R

It's going to take a whole lot from my government before I'll ever speak well of it again.

[DemoTex]

7. DemoTex: Humorless, mirthless, and serious as a heart attack when it comes to torture.

I was criticized as lacking a sense of humor by some clueless DUers a couple of days ago because I posted about an egregious Burger King commercial that jokes about torture. Maybe I do lack a sense of humor. My dad was a prisoner of war of the Germans in North Africa for a short period of time (he escaped). My dad was also one of the first US Army officers through the gates of Dachau after the liberation of Germany. I had four friends (and fellow un-armed re-con aircrew members) whose heads were found on stakes near Tchepone Laos by SAR teams after Lam Son 719 in early 1971. In my circle, we do not take torture lightly.


Thanks for your insight, Gratuitous. I meant to post this under SollyMack's post below.

[Solly Mack]

8. Hi, DemoTex. I can find humor in almost anything - but not torture

It just ain't funny. I appreciate a biting political cartoon or commentary that drives the point home about torture...but that's not the same as joking about it. Torture is no joke.

And for people to be so comfortable with torture that they use it as a basis for a joke? Sick.Sick.Sick.

[gratuitous]

2. Is playing dumb going to work?

"Tee hee, I'm just a girl (or a general, or a lawyer, or a judge), and I'm just too fucking stupid for words because, golly whiz, I don't know if waterboarding is torture or not. Let's go shopping!" Whether it's the Secretary of State, a nominee for Attorney General, or a 37-year veteran of the military talking with reporters in Georgia, the same "we don't know what you're talking about" sophistry is designed for one thing, and one thing only: To try to revive a "debate" about torturing people who haven't been accused of a crime, and who aren't allowed access to the forms and procedures of a justice system.

That decision has been made, both in U.S. law and in the treaties that our nation has signed: Torture is illegal, and its perpetrators need to be brought before the bar of justice to answer for their infamous crimes. And I don't care if we're torturing Osama bin Laden or Nelson Mandela, it's wrong, and it's always wrong. Inviting this "debate" about degrees of pain or suffering or the exact techniques used is a smokescreen designed to fool the gullible.

And based on what I've seen posted at DU, we have our fair share of those useful idiots even here.

[Solly Mack]

4. Wish I could recommend your post

[DemoTex]

3. So, I guess US military pilots & ground pounders know what Bu$hco thinks of them now.

Once in the hands of an enemy, US military personnel are now, officially, Chopped-Fucking-Liver.


"Wing, I've flown my last mission for these Chicken-hawk Motherfuckers."

[MonkeyFunk]

5. ugh

that's disgusting.

[sam sarrha]

6. just another White House Thug torture monkey....