OK. What have you done to prepare for imminent full fledged

[cali]

fascism in this country, and the complete collapse of the economy?

I've been called an enabler, a denier, a pollyana- because I think we can come throught this crisis, but here's the thing, for over 20 years I actually have prepared for the worst, even as I live in the present.

Hell, 15 years ago, when the U.S. attacked Iraq, friends and I even did dry runs for crossing the border into Canada on skis. And I've set up my life so that if the worst happens, I stand a fair chance of weathering it.

Having done that just makes sense to me, but dwelling on how absolutely, positively the entire country is going up in flames doesn't. It's a possibility, not a certainty.

But if you believe it to be unavoidable, shouldn't you have done everything in your power to be living a lifestyle that gives you a chance of surviving?

And yes, I do realize, that for many people making these changes is nigh on impossible but for the rest of you, how about it?

[LeftCoast]

1. Went back to school. Got my MS in nursing and my RN license

Worse comes to worse, I should be able to get a visa to most other countries. Still, things would have to be awfully bad for me to go that route.

[Uben]

2. Survivalists.....

....have been around for years and years, and to date, none of their predictions have come to fruition. If it makes ya feel good, do it, but don't expect many people to follow. The country isn't going up in flames, we are not in financial trouble, and Bush is not going to declare marshal law. That's reality.

[cali]

3. I tend to think you're right except

it does seem that we are headed toward real financial difficulties. But I've always felt that civilization is pardoxically fragile and resilient at the same time. I prepare for both.

[Birthmark]

4. My plan has always been...

...to run through the streets in an American Flag Speedo shouting, "Oh, my God! Oh, my God! Oh, my God!" I figure that'll work about as well as anything and at least I'll get some exercise.

[H2O Man]

5. Interesting.

I will quote from an interview with Onondaga Chief Paul Waterman:

Q: Many Americans have been attending religious services since 9-11. What forms of Divine Intervention do people usually overlook?

A: Well, church is good, religion is good. But don't overdo it. Don't try to use the Power of the Good Mind too much. I tell people to find it in the Longhouse, but be careful not to use your religion to judge your neighbor.

Be a good neighbor. If my garden is ready before yours, we should share mine now, and yours later. Too many people do not understand the power of sharing. You have to remember, all of the earth is the Creator's garden, and he shares with us. That's why I say that sharing is divine intervention.

And what we sometimes miss is the song of the smallest bird. We do not listen closely enough. But the song of the smallest bird is the prettiest. It lifts the Creator's heart to hear her song. Now that is divine intervention that people miss every day.

Q: What do you think about people stocking up on food and water, in case of a catastrophe?

A: It's the opposite of sharing. Remember the Y2K scare? Some people asked if we were prepared at Onondaga, if we had stocked up on food and water?

I said, listen, if the Creator wants to bring dinosaurs back, they'll be on your front lawn tomorrow. And if he wants to end the world, he will.

On that day, do you want to tell the Creator that you prepared to meet him by storing food, or sharing it?

See, people suffer every day, from floods and hurricanes. If we want to do the work of the Creator, we share with them. That's doing the Creator's will.

People who think they are as good as the Creator think that they can move mountains. They can't. Do the Creator's will, and the mountain's move.



That's what I try to think about in order to prepare to be a Human Being on that day.

[cali]

7. Actually, friends and I in my village started stocking up

on food before y2k. We weren't seriouse about believing in an apocalyptic event, but it just sort of happened. And then we just sort of kept it up. It's a communal thing- as in neighbors helping neighbors.

Care to comment on that? Hardly seems like selfishness to me. And I know that everyone involved with our little project would gladly help out everyone in our little village- no matter what differences people have in the day to day world.

[H2O Man]

14. Sure.

When most people go grocery shopping, they buy enough food for a period of time -- let's say a week -- rather than buying only enough food for a single day, or single meal. I would hope that people would understand that my post was not intended to advocate going to a grocery store three times per day.

What you describe is a group effort. If you were to participate in an archaeological excavation of a mid- to late- Woodland phase site in your area, you would find "storage pits." You might also find dark soil that marks the spots where posts made "meat racks" for drying meat, and other other structures that were beneficial for storing food for the community's use in the cold season.

You also note the spirit of sharing -- that I find encouraging, because in hard times, most human beings display the natural goodness in humanity. It is the opposite, in my opinion, of what the message of the empire is: think only of yourself, "get yours" without thought to your neighbor, and that there is no consequence to the selfishness of the Ken Lays of the world.

However, because you and I often speak very different languages, I will try to communicate that message in a different way. Mornings are often a good time for quotes:

"Evermore in the world
is this marvellous balance
of beauty and disgust
magnificence and rats."
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson

[cali]

16. yes.

we oten do speak at cross purposes. And I love that quote.

[Palladin]

18. Words of wisdom

from an honored elder. In my own tradition, the Church has always taught -
Be in the world, but not of it.
Be a good and faithful steward of God's good green earth, and all its creatures.
Faith, Hope, and Charity, and Justice, Prudence, Fortitude, and Temperance.
And above all - Domine providebam - God will provide.
Including survival amid well-deserved chastisement, should that be the will of God.

[RainDog]

19. Thank you for this post

not exactly the same, but part of the quote made me think of The Littlest Birds

The two women who wrote the song said "the littlest birds" are the poor.

[woodsprite]

22. Do you have a link for that quote? I'd like to send it to

my minister. It is very powerful and I think she would feel the same.

[H2O Man]

23. It's from an

interview I did with Chief Waterman in early 2002. It was his final message. The interview is not "on line," so I cannot provide a link. (My sons are in the middle of putting together a book that has the series of interviews I did with Chief Waterman, along with related works.)

[sam sarrha]

6. walmarts will become warehouses and distribution sites for emergency ration sites, they have wide

door's on each end facilitating quick in an out movement of wide lines.. you will get a number and a day.. walmart has huge regional distribution sites, making them candidates for huge no bid contracts

[MonkeyFunk]

8. I am THIS close

to signing an internet petition.

[cali]

9. care to elaborate? n/t

[MonkeyFunk]

15. I'm mocking the idea that

we've devolved into fascism, AND the idea that internet petitions have any value.

[MrBadExample]

10. Moved to England.

Although I was doing it anyway--I'm going to grad school over here for the next couple of years. Still, it'll be nice to be able to observe the 2008 elections from a relatively safe distance.

[OneGrassRoot]

11. I, for one, appreciate your optimism, balanced with realism

Without hope of things getting better, or at least not getting worse, I'm frankly not sure how to be on this Earth.

I do my best to be the best citizen, parent, friend, partner that I can, taking one hour at a time, keeping eyes and ears wide open.

[cali]

12. oh, i attribute most of my paranoia

to growing up with a father who constantly forecast the dissolution of American society- and that was 30 years ago.

[shadowknows69]

13. I've been working on my kissing my own ass goodbye techniques

Apparently I might need a yoga class or two.

[brazos121200]

17. It will take years to undo the damage that's been done

to this country by this administration. It will be hard but it can be done. Eventually the national debt that has piled up will have to be addressed in one way or another, which will involve sacrifice and pain whatever is done. I try to be as self-sufficient as possible and keep my passport current.

[Bonobo]

20. You did all that planning and STILL scoff at people? Seems odd, but different strokes I guess...

You spend almost your entire time online scoffing at people for their fear and shooting down their more idealistic hopes.

That doesn't sound consistent with a person that was so worried in the 1st Gulf War that they practiced SKIING TO CANADA!!

So are you here on this board trying to calm your own fears, trying to convince yourself there is nothing to fear.

Or is it simply a way for you to exercise your feelings of self-loathing? Perhaps by cutting down people that you see as similar to the "old you", you are able to experience a kind of pleasure for some reason?

Anyway, thanks for the further insight into your head. You probably shouldn't have shared so much. It's pretty damned revealing if you ask me.

[cali]

24. you don't entertain complexity, do you?

here, want to really blow the top off your little head: The theory of apparent paradox, wherein two seemingly irreconcilable truths coexist at the same time. Note the words "apparent" and "seemingly".

I never said there was nothing to fear. That's your own inability to read without bias.

And no, sorry, I'm not fearful. Have you really never heard "hope for the best, prepare for the worst"?

But thanks for the nickle psychoanalysis. it's a hoot.

[Bonobo]

25. Yes, people are complex. We should both stop reducing people to cartoons, eh?

Every time someone posts something complaining about a Democrat, you post with an attack calling them unrealistic.

Every time someone posts their fear or anxiety about an economic, military or social collapse, you deride them as Chicken Littles instead of seeing that they are people using a public bulleting board to try to work through their feelings.

Now you claim to be a complex creature who feels both sides. Well why don't you try showing it for a change and stop being so nasty to the other side. Your rep is your rep, Cali, and it's not cause I made it for you.
You need to chill out on this board in your self-appointed role as Professional Scoffer and Polyanna.

[cali]

26. why do you just make shit up?

Honestly, I don't get it. I criticize dems on a regular basis. I also defend some of them, and often it's because of totally bogus or ignorant shit that gets thrown at them. THAT'S too complex for you?? Pitiable.

You need to stop being so disturbed by what I post. It's just silly. I express my opinion, just as you express yours. But hey, if you want to continue obsessing about what I write, making shit up that's demonstrably not true, and playing board nanny, that's your business. Just don't think I won't call you on it.

And what I scoff at is stuff like: The Republic is Over. That's counter-productive bullshit. I'll call it as I see it.

Oh, and there are plenty of people here who agree with me.

[Bonobo]

27. Your posts do not disturb me. I just call reactionary crap when I see it.

Some people reflexively crap on people for various reasons. It irritates me. The reflexive part. I call it when I see it. Your name happens to come up a lot.

[cali]

28. lol

yes, I do call out reactionary crap, and fear laden crap, as well. We clearly see things differently. Big fucking deal. I'm not a threat to you just because I post things that don't bow to DU conventional wisdom. And I don't terribly care that my posts irritate you. That would be your problem, not mine.

[Bonobo]

29. You need to look up "Reactionary crap" in the dictionary because, well...

that's what you post, not what you call out.

[cali]

30. And you need to learn the difference between fact and opinion

and in my opinion, you are incapable of doing so.

[TreasonousBastard]

21. Absolutely nothing...

because I don't see "fascism" on the horizon but calamities that I do see as distinct possibilities cannot realistically be prepared for.

At least not just by me and a few friends.