Is Hillary Clinton hiding behind her gender to deflect criticism? Barak Obama thinks so . . .

[bigtree]

2nd November 2007

US Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama accused rival Hillary Clinton of hiding behind her gender after she was pummeled in a debate with six male candidates.

"I am assuming, and I hope that Sen. Clinton wants to be treated like everybody else," the Illinois senator said in an interview with NBC's "Today Show."

"When we had a debate back in Iowa awhile back, we spent I think the first 15 minutes of the debate hitting me on various foreign policy issues. And I didn't come out and say: 'Look, I'm being hit on because I look different from the rest of the folks on the stage'," he said.

"I assumed it was because there were real policy differences there, and I think that has to be the attitude that all of us take. We're not running for the president of the city council. We're running for the presidency of the United States."

He was speaking a day after New York Senator Clinton urged women voters to rally behind her against "the boys club of presidential politics."

Obama noted Clinton is widely viewed as a tough figure in national politics.

"So it doesn't make sense for her, after having run that way for eight months, the first time that people start challenging her point of view, that suddenly she backs off and says: 'Don't pick on me'," he said.

"That is not obviously how we would expect her to operate if she were president."


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=491315&in_page_id=1811&ito=newsnow

[rodeodance]

1. pummeled???

[bigtree]

3. these writers all have their adjectives

it was what it was (and less of a confrontation than what I think was promised by Barak and others) . . .

[mzteris]

2. he's really starting to

disappoint me all around. :(

[Nia Zuri]

4. Ouch! He has a point - nt

[hlthe2b]

5. God, that is insulting...

I am not supporting Clinton, at this point, but for Obama to say this is ludicrous.

If nothing else, his argument was defeated given that she did bear the brunt of all the very direct criticism from the "pack" in the last debate. Her gender obviously did not deflect the attacks then, did it?

Geebus. By this logic, Senator Obama, some could argue that our "supposed" PC-driven society is protecting you from similar because of race.

I believe neither to be the case.

[bigtree]

8. I think Clinton's statements were curious

What does she think is the actual advantage the men running against her have over her because of their gender?

[hlthe2b]

11. Well, if you have to ask....

:shrug:
Why not also ask what advantage white men have over black men in our society. We have made strides in race and, gender equality-- but to deny it's impact on society and this country for its entire history is to bury one's head in the sand.

[bigtree]

12. I don't think that applied in the debate. She had the same opportunity to respond as the others

and her female supporters have demonstrated their own ability to generate a majority of support for her (at least in the polls).

Even comparing her obstacles in this campaign to the barriers posed by race doesn't seem to be a fair measure.

[hlthe2b]

13. DU spent the past 18 months arguing whether we were "ready"

for either a "woman" or a "black" man. If that is a rampant discussion on, among the most progressive web forums in this country, I'd say it is an issue.

I'm not AT ALL arguing that she was descriminated against because of gender in the debate. Quite the contrary. She was ganged up on, because she is the front runner and-- in contrast to Obama's contention-- her gender did not (and should not) deflect that.

[bigtree]

14. his contention was that her 'boys club' defense was a deflection based on her gender

. . . and, it was.

You are correct that *her gender shouldn't be used to deflect those criticisms.

[hlthe2b]

15. Neither are without criticism on that score...

(Using race or gender to deflect criticism). Neither Obama or Clinton. However both are double edged swords, imo.

[TahitiNut]

19. Where's an example of Obama using race to deflect criticism??

Obama's not at the top of my list of preferences ... but I'm aware of nothing in his campaign that even comes close to suggesting his opponents are "picking on the black guy." I've not heard him suggest it's a "whites only" national office or anything comparable.

[hlthe2b]

22. I feel the need to reiterate my qualifiers...

I remain agnostic. I neither specifically support Clinton OR Obama or any other candidate over another at this point. Nor do I oppose them. They all have strengths and weaknesses. In addition, I look forward to the day when we have a truly competent President and if they are the first African American OR the first woman, that would be icing on the cake.


Both candidates have a double edged sword of benefit and disadvantage from their respective "uniqueness" attributes. Sometimes it is overt and sometimes subtle.

[LanternWaste]

21. In TX, the 'Good Ol' Boys' club is an absolute advantage

In TX, the 'Good Ol' Boys' club is an absolute advantage and has been for quite some time, on the both the state and the local level. It's as real as the Blue Wall in many police forces and to ignore it, is to invite failure.

[Demit]

6. I do not get the impression that HRC will hide behind her gender. I think that's wishful thinking.

Men will always attempt to characterize women according to their long-established stereotypes. If you are angry, they will call you upset. If you are forceful, they will call you unladylike. She has a natural point here, in that the presidency has always been held by men, and it's long past time to break that barrier. I think it's silly of Obama to try to characterize Hillary's advantage in promoting that logic as some kind of unfair advantage that a female would emphasize out of weakness. Haha! If there's one thing Hillary ain't, it's weak.

[bigtree]

9. I think she was clearly trying to use her gender to deflect against the effects of the last debate.

. . . which seemed to elevate the pressure on some of her statements and positions.

[babylonsister]

7. I think she asked for it by mentioning the 'boy's club'. She made the

distinction, he's running with it. That's competition, and politics. She's tough enough to roll with the punches; she can hand them out, can't she?

[Al Federfer]

10. Could Hillary's tactics be any more transparent?

She obviously did play the "Evil Men" card after making a poor showing in the debate. Don't think for a moment that every word she speaks on the stump isn't calculated.

[superkia]

16. Its funny, if it were Bush up there instead of Clinton, no one would...

be defending Bush and saying he was ganged up on or anything, they would be saying what all of the non Clinton supporters have been saying. I think many are blind to what happened because they are supporters. No one would have said a thing if it were Bush, everyone would agree that it was a debate and we would all be happy that none of our candidates let him slide and get away with juggling his answers. We would have been ecstatic and praising everyone for holding him accountable. For some reason its Clinton the poll champion and theres a problem, wake up people and look at it for what it was. The way she tried to answer made her look bad, not the democratic candidates that were taking part in a debate.

[Blackhatjack]

17. HRC needs to remember there are lots of Male Voters watching her....

Using her gender reference to 'the boys club of presidential politics' reduces her ideas to a conflict between stereotypes.

IMHO it would be a great mistake for HRC to try and use gender in any way in this race.

There will be a general election, and HRC will be called on it and it will likely hurt her with male voters who will focus on the gender issue rather than the ideas put forth by the Democratic Party as its Nominee.

[Demit]

20. I suspect male voters will be focused on the gender issue anyway, whether they admit it or not.

It is an issue regardless of who acknowledges it. The press has been eager to, certainly, ginning up things—sometimes in coded ways like the quality of her laugh, sometimes openly, like how much cleavage is appropriate to show, or Tucker Carlson saying she makes him instinctively close his legs. There is always going to be an element of damned if you do, damned if you don't for a woman—for HRC, if she doesn't act feminine enough she's accused of being somehow not a real woman; if she points out that she is a woman she is accused of 'using it'. She's never going to win, because her critics will always point to the opposite thing of what they were pointing out yesterday. Gender is there all right, as an issue, and it has been all along. What I see is a bunch of people just dying to pin it on Hillary being the one who suddenly brought it up, out of the blue, as if it was never there until she did. That's hypocritical in the extreme, and every woman with life experience of male stereotypes knows it.

[Blackhatjack]

23. Gender, Race, Sexual Orientation, are all there -but the Winner Represents ALL Democrats & Our Ideas

If Clinton wants to be taken seriously on her policy positions and her ability to handle the responsibilities of the Presidency she should not inject her gender into the decisionmaking process. Similarly, Obama's race is not an issue when it comes to being qualified and having the ability to carry out the duties of President.

There are voters who fixate on gender and race, no doubt. But the great majority of people want someone who is qualified more than someone who looks the same as them on a superficial level.

I support Edwards because he would be best on all the issues for ALL Americans. If Elizabeth Edwards were running in his place and held the same positions she would get my vote as well. And if both Edwards were another race, that would not make a difference to me in choosing the most qualified President.

In the end, it is the positions and qualifications of the candidates that SHOULD be the bottom line in choosing our next President.

I just feel Clinton's comments were not worthy of her, and inject an issue into the decisionmaking process that should not be a factor.

[Demit]

24. How exactly is she injecting gender into the decisionmaking process? How?

Has she said, or implied, that when she is president she will be making decisions based on being female? Has she said, or implied, that when she is president she will focus on issues that only affect women?

I think that by using Edwards as a way to prove your point—that he will make decisions best for 'ALL Americans', in contrast to HRC—you end up proving mine. It doesn't matter that it's Edwards, you could have used any of the other candidates, Democrat or Republican, because all the other candidates are men, and the issue of gender is not an issue because it never has been, for men. Has there ever been a hint, ever, that because the candidate is a man he might not be qualified to be president of ALL Americans? Yet there it is, gender as a delimiter—as a negative, in fact—now that there's a woman running for the office.

I think you tip your hand, as to how you feel viscerally about a female president, when you suggest that perhaps HRC cannot be 'taken seriously on her policy positions', or taken seriously on 'her ability to handle the responsibilities of the Presidency'. The 'taken seriously' bit is all too familiar to women's ears. Again: in the Utopia that we would all love to live in but don't, gender shouldn't be a factor but it is. Hillary didn't suddenly inject it into anything.

[TahitiNut]

18. It's sad to see the whiff of "don't pick on girls" in this.

Heavy is the head that wears the 'front-runner' crown. :shrug:

[EFerrari]

25. She's a politician. They do stuff like that.

lol