****OFFICIAL DEBATE THREAD #2*****

[Bluebear]

First thread here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2168765&mesg_id=2168765

[mvd]

Hillary will PLEDGE to do anything she can to stop Iran from..

developing nuclear weapons? Didn't she realize that includes war? I didn't like that answer or question.

[Cameron27]

3. That's what everyone but Kucinich has said.

[mvd]

25. Loving Dennis's answer!

Giving it to the media rhetoric, too.

[Cameron27]

37. Me too.

[demnan]

1. Kucinch stands up for Impeachment

and the Constitution!!!!!!

[me b zola]

6. He was applauded for that strong statement

Voters get it.

[Cameron27]

10. Yep, I think that was the only applause so far.

[democrat2thecore]

2. Biden again sounding like a PRESIDENT -nt

[MadBadger]

4. Very good response for Obama

quickly say you want to stop Iran from getting nukes, and then focus on another important issue such as the politics of fear.

[karlrschneider]

5. Thanks...needed a 2nd

Chris Dodd on now. He's a smart guy but something about him worries me...and I hate that I can't say exactly what!

[babylonsister]

7. Thank you! nt

[Gregorian]

8. It's very good that they're bringing up the danger of Pakistan.

This is a good debate. Great points they're discussing.

[tekisui]

Almost half an hour in: All Iran.

It's sick.

[Bluebear]

Totally. No health care, no SCHIP, just answer the GOP wish list of war

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

19. Why is it sick? We should have seen this discourse before Iraq.

:shrug: MKJ

[Bluebear]

It's just that nothing domestic is being talked about. Just war.

[tekisui]

40. Iran and nukes is a manufactured threat.

I know that it is chimpys march, and it should be stopped. Talking abou the right way to get to war isn't the same as saying, "this is total bullshit"

[earthlover]

173. Iran is a big issue. Maybe we should hear their views on it??

[MadBadger]

31. No it isnt, we need a full debate on just Iran and Iraq.

[tekisui]

67. I agree on Iraq. Iran debate follows bushco. framing.

What is the most acceptable way to bomb Iran??

Bullshit.

[MadBadger]

132. Maybe, but I think that they should answer the question framing it their own way.

[bullwinkle428]

9. GREAT point about Pakistan vs. Iran nukes from Biden!

okay, so I copied it from the other thread as it was about to be locked anyway..

[babylonsister]

15. Yes! Maybe this is all a distraction? Didn't we just give India somethin'? nt

[TahitiNut]

11. *** Debate Talk Clock from Dodd ***

[me b zola]

12. recommended...past it on

:)

[Solly Mack]

13. It's 2:30 AM here and I'm glad I stayed up

[Gregorian]

20. 2:30? Where do you live, Mars?

:)

And yes, it is heartening to hear some common sense on rare occasions.

[Solly Mack]

No, Venus :)

:)

[TahitiNut]

101. Did Venus join the EU? I hadn't heard about that.

:shrug:


:evilgrin:

[Solly Mack]

No, Uranus blackballed her...he's such an ass

:)

[TahitiNut]

201. Well, I've been sittin' on him and I agree.

:silly:

[Gregorian]

202. I'm a man!

:)

[Solly Mack]

203. I'm not!

:)

[Gregorian]

208. Well obviously. You're from Venus.

I thought that was where this post was headed.

[Solly Mack]

209. Yes :)

[cuke]

14. Richardson : I'm the negotiator

Gone head to head with saddam

[pinto]

16. Overall, I like the emphasis on diplomacy. All are juggling for an 'identifiable' position,

yet all seem to tout diplomacy as a first and foremost step.

[cuke]

28. good description

it's all nuance and image

[Cameron27]

17. Good for Dennis,

calls out the media!

[pinto]

27. Good point.

[MadBadger]

18. Did you know that Richardson is VERY qualified. I had no idea!

[AlCzervik]

24. he needs to change his lines and not bring any more hostages he's rescued.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

65. on edit, he has diplomatic credentials, however, I think the other candidates could do that as well.

He needs to distinguish himself in other ways, I'd say.

MKJ

[cuke]

21. DK: Call for restraint on * and Iran

Would go to Iran and urge to give up nukes. Pushing non-proliferation treaty and gain cred to go to Iran

[bicentennial_baby]

22. i heart Kucinich...

Sigh...

[Tektonik]

34. agreed

sigh :(

<3 Dennis

[tekisui]

23. Kucinich on framing!!!!!!! He is the best.

[Nutmegger]

26. Kucinich!!!

:loveya:

[countmyvote4real]

42. Once again, he makes the most sense.

Nuclear power is not good either.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

29. Just make Biden president already! (I'd sleep better)

[MadBadger]

36. except if Biden is president, that means Iraq will be split three ways automatically

sounds good from my vantage point, but in practice could be devastating.

[rucky]

70. It was the pre-colonial state of things. n/t

[The River]

80. Iraq is an Artificial Country

It was put together by the British, French and Americans
after WW1 when the Turks were defeated.
It should be 3 separate self governing countries.

[MadBadger]

have fun with that kurdish state.

[rucky]

125. Turkey is not being reasonable.

If we gave into every fear we'd have - well, we'd have what we have now.

[sendero]

190. LOL...

... yeah, that about nails it :)

[democrat2thecore]

30. Suppose China puts military on full alert: President Kucinich or President Biden?

Wouldn't you sleep better with Biden's experience?
I like to listen to Kooch, but it's a world that demands more than he can provide. Just my opinion.

[cuke]

32. HRC: opposes war

talking about responsible withdrawal and attacking *

[Colobo]

39. She just voted for it.

[itsrobert]

52. She's for it, before she opposes it

I hope she's not the candidate. She's going to get Kerryed.

[cuke]

58. so has Obama

so has edwards

[itsrobert]

33. Clinton says she doesn't oppose the troops

Wow, really going out on a limb. :eyes:

[Forkboy]

50. She couldn't even do that without resorting to the support the troops strawman.

[Solly Mack]

35. Oh bother...wtf ...this military family doesn't need its ass kissed

with meaningless words of support - what we need is someone brave enough to tell the truth about Iraq and Bush...and get the troops the fuck OUT!!

[babylonsister]

47. Yes!

:applause:

[milkyway]

Who the fuck is Tim Russert, trying to force a pledge to go to war against

Iran to prevent them from developing a nuclear weapon? This rightwing pig (looking hung over) thinks he can force a decision on whether this nation goes to war in the future, as if the American people have no say in the matter?

Russert asked Hillary if she would pledge that Iran would not be allowed to develop a nuclear weapon during her presidency. Hillary smartly pledged to do everything she could to prevent it, but would not take the absolutist position pigboy Russert tried to force on her several times. Edwards did the same. Now the repugs and the Foxtards will be screaming showing the dems as weak because they aren't maniacs.

[rucky]

46. So glad Dennis called him out for that. n/t

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

38. Stop yelling Hillary

[democrat2thecore]

I agree. She comes across as rattled when she does that. -nt

[pinto]

41. Clinton brings up a good point. Re-building the aftermath of Bushco.

[Cameron27]

48. I think she's holding her own in this debate.

[babylonsister]

51. I think everyone knows how much damage has been done. nt

[TwilightZone]

43. Hillary's message: Bush is a failure.

She's definitely targeting Bush/Cheney.

[MiniMe]

44. chiming in late here, but how can anybody guarantee that Iran won't get a nuke?

It is just a ridiculous question. I think that they all answered that question correctly.

[Renew Deal]

45. Hillary hasn't attacked anyone yet.

BTW

[TwilightZone]

53. Other than Bush. She's attacked him repeatedly.

:)

[SaveElmer]

54. She won't either...nt

[democrat2thecore]

55. politically, she doesn't need to. But don't think the Clinton's aren't capable. -nt

[Renew Deal]

128. I know. Just an observation. n/t

[cuke]

49. Obama: Is HRC consistent on Iraq

answer about Iran and KL

[democrat2thecore]

59. Obama is right! nt

[AlCzervik]

56. i hope Edward's means what he says. He needs to kick ass tonight.

[Blackhatjack]

112. Edwards is telling the truth, and it is making Hillary very uncomfortable...

[babylonsister]

57. Edwards: 1st year in office, all troops out, combat troops ended. nt

[Neshanic]

60. Edwards. He is on fire. I LIKE him.

[democrat2thecore]

66. I think it's his best performance yet. Anybody else agree?

[Bluebear]

73. I do.

He's not showing his earlier caution, being more passionate.

[Neshanic]

74. Hell yes.

[Ninga]

79. I agree.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

87. yes, he is unequivocal and articulate.

MKJ

[itsrobert]

92. I don't think any honest person couldn't agree

He's kicking butt.

[Colobo]

95. He's on fire tonight.

[jazzjunkysue]

93. He's been savin' it up! Go, Johnny!

Love ya!

[cuke]

105. He's doing well, but he has to be careful

don't want to cross that line. Just walk right up to it. So far, he's doing allright

[Renew Deal]

114. Me three

[SayitAintSo]

Yes!!! I have been very impressed with his answers

I hope his numbers rise as a result of the debate. Obama seems to be struggling. Edwards deserves a bump IMHO.

[Renew Deal]

61. Edwards: Combat missions and troops end within a year

Most concise answer.

[rucky]

62. If looks could kill.

Edwards is pulling no punches. And doing so with a smile.

[babylonsister]

63. JE: Prez candidates should be in 'tell the truth' mode all the time. nt

[Gregorian]

64. This is a very good group of candidates.

Almost all of them would make good presidents. That includes Gravel who is seriously missing in this debate.

[AlCzervik]

71. and ones that can use the word "Semantic" in the right context, 10000% better than the gop.

[Olney Blue]

68. I'm impressed with Edwards. He is strong tonight.

[cuke]

69. HRC: We all agree that we would continue to pursue Al Queda

in Iraq after withdrawal and I dont know how to do that without leaving some troops for a limtied mission

[cuke]

85. It won't be easy or quick to withdraw

we will guard embassy, train troops and attack AQ

She won on that. DU won't like it, but americans will

[JTFrog]

110. DU won't like

it but Americans will? WTF? I don't know what you call yourself, but I'm an American. Or are you going to try to question me on that too?

[eridani]

211. Why do we need an embassy that needs guarding?

We had one in Russia all through the cold war, and that country was a far greater military threat to us than Al Qaeds.

[Botany]

72. Go John Edwards

:bounce:

[More Than A Feeling]

75. Hillary sounds pissed!

I think they are getting under her skin.

[jefferson_dem]

90. I agree. She's having a tough time up there.

Strained vocal intonations.

[MadBadger]

76. So, she consistently has said that she wants troops to remain

I didnt know that Hillary. I know Obama wants some to guard an embassy, which Im fine with, but she wants special ops people to remain, which is ridiculous.

[goodgd_yall]

141. I remember hearing Obama actually say the same

in another debate. They have the same view on leaving troops in.

[Cameron27]

77. Clinton made a good rebuttal

[goodgd_yall]

151. Sad thing is, my republican mother agreed with her---and she NEVER agrees with Hillary

On the other hand that could be good for HRC.

[Tactical Progressive]

181. That's anything but sad

Help your Mom along on that.

[Colobo]

78. Edwards vs. Clinton!

[Nutmegger]

81. Get the troops out!

Get all combat forces out!

Get all the contractors out!

Get them ALL out now! :patriot:

[Renew Deal]

Piss break

Hurry up and pee!!!

[bicentennial_baby]

82. This DK supporter is liking Edwards too!

:bounce:

[mvd]

97. He's been stressing how important it is to..

stand up to Bush. I think he really gets it like Kucinich does.

[Blackhatjack]

83. Edwards just called Hillary on moving into 'general election mode' ...

... and I think that is telling.

[journalist3072]

84. John Edwards is full of shit

Sen. Clinton never said she was moving from primary mode to general election mode.

The talking heads may have said that about her while pontificating but she has never said that.

[MadBadger]

89. I was thinking the same thing

Would she ever say that (even if she is doing it)?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

98. second time tonight he's cited an anonymous source in an attack

[journalist3072]

123. His campaign theme song should be "Desparado." It's pretty pathetic when you're reduced to

straw man arguments.

[Cameron27]

Yes, she never said anything like that.

[democrat2thecore]

119. NY TIMES says her advisers have -nt

[Inspired]

102. Did I miss hearing her deny it?

Regardless, it was one of her operatives who said it.

[itsrobert]

115. Yes, she never said it. Her operatives have. Doesn't she control her campaign staff?

Sounds like she can't control her underlings.

[usregimechange]

106. He quoted the NYT

[BootinUp]

107. yeah, but it doesn't hurt

Democrats don't want to lose by running a campaign too far to the left.

[sendero]

199. She didn't announce it..

... but she's doing it. Get a fucking clue.

[AlCzervik]

86. that seemed longer than a 30 second rebuttal. my daughter thinks they're giving her more

time "Cause she's a girl Mom, thats not fair"

[MadBadger]

94. No, they are giving them all a chance to finish their answers.

[More Than A Feeling]

100. What a novel feature!

Full answers in a debate? I think I like this innovation!.

[babylonsister]

96. Ha! I hope someone fact checks this whole thing! nt

[AlCzervik]

oh you know they will. My daughter likes Obama so she's a tad biased.

[babylonsister]

121. Your daughter is right right now. She's getting way too much time imo

compared to the others.

[spooky3]

88. Finally, they built a break into the debate!

How embarrassing would it be to have to "slip offstage for a moment" if nature called?

[TwilightZone]

91. Everyone whacks Hillary. Hillary whacks Bush.

[itsrobert]

103. How so? She's not standing up to him

She's buckling under the pressure.

[Evergreen Emerald]

111. I disagree--not one other candidate has had to withstand what she is withstanding

she is kicking butt.

[TwilightZone]

113. What debate are you watching?

She's attacked Bush at least a dozen times already.

[Cameron27]

108. I may be the only one who thinks Clinton's doing good,

but that's how it seems to me.

[TwilightZone]

117. You're not the only one.

I think she's doing quite well.

[babylonsister]

116. In all honesty, I agree. But she's ahead, so her competition is

trying to rattle her. That's politics. She could go on the attack, and that might still happen. If not tonight, down the road.

[Renew Deal]

118. Look familiar?

Dean 04

[SaveElmer]

127. I don't see how attacking Hillary is going t o help the others...

It might make their own supporters feel better, but it isn't going to attract anyone to them...

And the only way they could possible win that encounter is if Hillary fell to the floor sobbing. She basically has 5 men going after her and she is more than holding her own...giving her opinions, not backing down, not attacking them but staying focused on Bush...

[Catchawave]

99. Quick start a new thread...these are going fast :)

[Evergreen Emerald]

104. The media / Russert / and every candidate is attacking Clinton

The questions I have seen all revolved around Clinton. Not one other candidate has--or could stand up to those attacks.

[MadBadger]

122. Its about friggin time.

They are the ones who have built her up for the past 6 months or so.

[Evergreen Emerald]

207. I have never seen anything like it...and she is holding up wonderfully

[Neshanic]

109. And now a moment from the corporations that want to end the American dream as you knew it.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

137. :-)

:toast: MKJ

[BlueStater]

120. Geez, another question for Hillary

Enough already!

[Cameron27]

129. This is a target Hillary debate,

it's not fair to her.

[cuke]

124. Clinton:Electability

rudy says you never ran anything

we don't need repuke brand experience. talking about her 35 years experience, health care, etc

what's at stake and who can deliver the change, repukes are obsessed, they think she is communicating effectively, * cheney disastorous

restore america leadership, middle class, etc....

[Blackhatjack]

Hillary will not answer the question asked, but she sure has the canned message down pat...

[Bluebear]

131. Is it me, or is she getting every other question posed to her?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

126. she sounds nuts. (The words aren't terrible, but the presentation... oy)

[More Than A Feeling]

142. Yeah, its Hillary unchained!

Now she's starting to calm down. I did see a bit of stutter in her Giuliani answer, which I normally associate with Obama.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

153. She should have slammed guliani... let off some steam

[babylonsister]

130. She's getting a bit shrill again, or defensive. She should be happy

she's getting so much time. Or maybe that's why she's sounding annoyed? :think:

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

134. The set-up is like running a gauntlet... she's getting it from every side

[Renew Deal]

156. From 2 sides

Obama, Edwards

Not Dodd, Biden, Kucinich

[Bluebear]

138. Cripes, Russert, just spend an hour with her on your show. This is a DEBATE not a showcase.

[babylonsister]

147. Amen! nt

[AlCzervik]

150. no shit! She's earth and the rest are just orbiting around her, it's a bad set up.

[Cameron27]

164. I doubt she likes it.

They're orbiting and all firing on her.

[AlCzervik]

172. also true but Russert and Williams could help out but of course they'd rather watch

and stir the pot in one direction.

[AlCzervik]

140. the whole releasing of the papers is working her last nerve.

and i ain't buying her response.

[MadHound]

133. Whoops, there it is!

Hillary stating that she'll leave troops in Iraq to guard embassies, conduct training, and carry on missions against Al Quaeda. Yet she says she'll withdraw combat troops:eyes:

[tekisui]

145. "missions" = Occupation/waronterra

[jefferson_dem]

135. To Hillary: Are you going to release archived records?

Evasive as hell answer to a difficult question.

[itsrobert]

136. What the hell.? Why can't Hillary Fillerbuster like this in the Senate? When it's time to standup to

the GOP and George Bush. She's proving she can filler buster. Why now and not when it really matters?

[Blackhatjack]

139. Hillary The Archives Will Do As The Archives Does...

[Renew Deal]

143. Hillary's archives answer is semantic bullshit.

[Colobo]

152. She's BSing and getting away with it.

[democrat2thecore]

160. She sure is.

[gorekerrydreamticket]

206. Agree, total dodge of the question...n/m

[bicentennial_baby]

144. Can we get some non-Clintion questions?

I don't give a fuck about Nat'l Archives, Timmeh.... :puke:

[cuke]

146. HRC: Will you release archives

it's in the archives hands. I have no complaint

timmy: bill wrote letter.

hrc: my hands are tied. the archives will release them when they're ready

obama: says hrc isn't releasing archives and something about building trust. he's drifting

[jenmito]

148. As soon as Hillary said "turn the page" I said Obama should comment on that

and he DID! Good for him pointing out that she's NOT turning the page.

[Catchawave]

149. Good for Obama....Hillary Release Your Papers !

[goodgd_yall]

158. Obama's riled up!

[jenmito]

174. He sure is!

[Solly Mack]

154. Oh..SNAP

[More Than A Feeling]

155. And now Obama drops the gloves!

Going after the 90's, that's something that hasn't happened yet!

[pinto]

157. (aside) pet peeve, I wish all candidates got to answer the same question.

Seems a duh, to me.

[Bluebear]

163. Exactly. this is a Clinton-targeted showcase by Russert

[babylonsister]

159. Obama! Holy moly! Clinton is part of the problem?! nt

[jefferson_dem]

Well...

He's right.

[babylonsister]

210. Why yes, he is! That

did shock me. But in the meantime...

:toast:

[democrat2thecore]

168. There is your headline for the media -nt

[MadBadger]

161. There we go Obama!

[milkyway]

162. I thought this was supposed to be a debate? It's all Hillary, all the time.

MSNBC and Russert are embarrassments. Why even invite the others of they're just going to stand there and watch Russert repeat wingnut talking points to Hillary.

[Catchawave]

165. Edwards gloves off now......

[SayitAintSo]

177. Yowie! He just said the Pukes may WANT to run against Hill ....

gloves off indeed ... where the hell is Obama ... letting Edwards do the dirty work !

[Solly Mack]

166. smoochies!!!!! we need a new thread..pretty please

[dflprincess]

167. So, when Hillary says it's "time to turn the page on Bush"

does that mean, if elected, she'll give Bushco a pass on war crimes and war profiteering for "the good of the country"? Sort of like Bill did with Irancontra?

[Blackhatjack]

169. Edwards just defined the Clinton supporters --corp/special interests ...

[RebelSansCause]

170. hillary just said something that made no sense, and she is still getting mopped up by EVERYONE

:rofl:

[Neshanic]

171. Edwards is taking it to town.

[Hepburn]

175. Wow on Edwards!

He really sounds good tonight! :applause:

[cuke]

176. HRC: SCOTUS handed white house to *

before that things were good

[cuke]

HRC: Change is just a word without the experience to get it done

[mvd]

186. She's been good tonight

Tougher on Bush than she has been before in the debates.

[Nutmegger]

178. PROUD Edwards supporter here!

:bounce:

[Renew Deal]

179. Did she just say she's going to cut Medicare by $10 billion?

[MiniMe]

204. I think she said she would cut medicare payments to HMO's, not medicare itself

She said that medicare is overpaying HMO's

[HCE SuiGeneris]

180. Did she say Olive Garden or Haliburton?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

182. You're thinking of the olive garden bottomless contract

[HCE SuiGeneris]

184. Halivgarden? OliveBurton?

:P

[jefferson_dem]

183. THREAD #3 HERE

Carry on -- http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2169607

[jenmito]

205. Obama ain't lettin' NOTHIN' get past him this time!

[pinto]

185. Excellent, broad statement from Edwards.

paraphrasing: 'We're all going to fine. The question is, are our children going to be OK?'

[Ninga]

187. Edwards is elevating his philosophy above the minutia. He clearly is displaying leadership

qualities.

[Ninga]

188. dupe. self delete

[mvd]

I agree; when he has attacked Hillary, he has been substantive

[xiamiam]

189. where has hillary been?...talking about no bid contracts, supreme court stealing in 2000..not like

she hasnt been playing politics while we went to hell in a handbasket...im not buying it because she has not been leading the way, even though she's been in a leadership position...its too late..

[cuke]

191. Richardson: Securing a spot in the Cabinet

be positive
save ammo for repukes

[cuke]

196. I trust Hillary. I just disagree

Just put JE and BO in their place for their personal attacks

[billyoc]

Here goes Richardson, defending Hillary.

Bucking for that VP slot.

[jenmito]

192. And here comes Richardson in defense of Hillary for the VP slot!

[itsrobert]

193. Richardson in running for VP mode

He might as well quit and endorse her.

[bullwinkle428]

194. Richardson angling for VP, or Sec./State if Clark gets veep!

[jenmito]

200. We're all thinking alike re: Richardson!

:hi:

[Renew Deal]

195. Richardson: "I am the only CEO." God please no!!!

[billyoc]

197. Dodd! 50% won't vote for Hillary! nt

[patrice]

198. Dodd's hot! nt