Barack Obama is a member of the UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST...

[rateyes]

From the UCC Website:

We believe that all of the baptized 'belong body and soul to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.' No matter who – no matter what – no matter where we are on life's journey – notwithstanding race, gender, SEXUAL ORIENTATION (emphasis mine), class or creed – we all belong to God and to one worldwide community of faith. All persons baptized – past, present and future – are connected to each other and to God through the sacrament of baptism. We baptize during worship when the community is present because baptism includes the community's promise of 'love, support and care' for the baptized – and we promise that we won't take it back – no matter where your journey leads you.

-------------------------------

The UCC has always been very open to ALL people. YOU WON'T FIND A STATEMENT LIKE THAT in the BAPTIST CHURCH AFFILIATION to which HILLARY CLINTON belongs.

-------------------------------------

Here is my point. Barack screwed up. Hillary has screwed up a few times herself. So has every person on the planet.

But, if you want to play the "guilt by association" games, just remember that we can dig up dirt on ALL the candidates.

I don't believe for one minute that Obama is a homophobe. I don't believe for one minute that Hillary is one either, simply because she belongs to a church that, unlike Obama's, has been traditionally a homophobic church.

Personally, I'm not voting for either one of them...but, I'm not voting for either because I don't think either one of them would make a very good president at the time being. This "guilt by association" crap is just that...crap.

--------------------------

Disclaimer: I am a straight white protestant progressive male. My brother is a gay white protestant male. And, my whole family is part of the "gay-straight alliance" at a major university in the South (where my wife is a professor, and two of my daughters attend.)

[LostinVA]

1. Bush says he's a Methodist

I went to a Methodist school, I have friends and family who are Methodist... he's no Methodist. Just as Obama is no UCCer.

[Bluerthanblue]

2. can I ask

what gives you credibility to say that Obama is not a UCC'r?

[LostinVA]

6. Oh brother

Try baiting someone else.

[Bluerthanblue]

11. I'm not baiting anyone- I'm asking a very relevant question-

the hatred and knee-jerk reactions on du is raising its ugly head yet again.

The OP posted an important point- and it was answered with someones OPIONION about whether someone was a "UCC'r"-

Asking them to back up their opinion isn't baiting- anymore than wanting a link when a statement is posted here is-

geez-!

:eyes:

[Tyler Durden]

56. I am UCC

And he would be universally admonished in our church for what happened this weekend.

[peacebird]

3. HRC's hubby is now best buddies with Papa Bush but no one here faults her for THAT

:eyes:

seems to me that the Hillary camp are in hyper faux-outrage trying to fan the embers of this... Hopefully it helps Edwards in the end.

[mondo joe]

5. When Hillary goes on tour with Poppy Bush and lets him use her stage to broadcast his shit

you'll have a comparable situation.

[MH1]

28. Bill has gone on tour with Poppy Bush many times.

Chummed it up with * at the opening of his library, too, didn't he?

[mondo joe]

31. Was he running for office? Was Bush emceeing for him?

They worked together on humanitarian aid. No problem.

[MH1]

34. Hillary was running for office even then. nt

[mondo joe]

35. So, if I understand, you want me to hold it against Hillary that her husband was

touring with another former president for humanitarian aid?

[LostinVA]

10. This isn't a HRC-Obama thing at all

Making it so is disingenuous.

If Hillary did this, or Edwards, or Gore, I would react the same way.

[MethuenProgressive]

47. So why did you slam Clinton in your OP? What does she have to do w/ BO's church??

[mondo joe]

4. Then Obama should own upto his mistake and fix it.

And he should stop insulting gays while he does.

[rateyes]

12. Yeah, there's a lot who should own up to a lot of things...

Hillary for her war vote and kyl/lieberman. Obama for the guy who was on the platform in SC. Pelosi for her cowardice. Waxman for his going back on his word to Sibel Edmonds. Leahy for holding hearings on Mukasey without getting the testimony of Rove and Miers. Reid for allowing a vote on war funding without a timeline for troop withdrawal after he said he wouldn't do that.

You're right. Seems like, though, we have a lot of selective outrage. If OUR candidate screws up, it's no big deal. If someone else's candidate screws up, they owe the whole friggin world an apology.

IMO, all the aforementioned owe us all a damned apology, and beyond that a helluva lot better job of governing than they are currently doing.

[mondo joe]

16. Everyone has their scale of how much each issue matters to them.

Some are more sensitive to eco issues, some to the war, some to civil rights and so on.

[rateyes]

17. That's for sure....

Advocate: I know you’re in a difficult position here trying to balance these two constituencies -- but by keeping McClurkin on the tour, didn't you essentially choose your Christian constituency over your gay constituency?

Obama: No, I profoundly disagree with that. This is not a situation where I have backed off my positions one iota. You’re talking to somebody who talked about gay Americans in his convention speech in 2004, who talked about them in his announcement speech for the president of the United States, who talks about gay Americans almost constantly in his stump speeches. If there’s somebody out there who’s been more consistent in including LGBT Americans in his or her vision of what America should be, then I would be interested in knowing who that person is.

One of the things that always comes up in presidential campaigns is, if you’ve got multiple supporters all over the place, should the candidate then be held responsible for the every single view of every one of his supporters? And obviously that’s not possible. And if I start playing that game, then it will be very difficult for me to do what I think I can do best, which is bring the country together.
I've been a little taken aback by the vehement response of many gay people to this McClurkin business. I think it's been blown up, but I have to say it's good to see gay voters finally demanding real accountability from politicians they support.

Now let's see if they can keep that vigilance up with Clinton, whose substantive record on gays and lesbian rights - from DOMA to the military ban - is far worse than Obama's.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/10/obama-and-the-g.html

[mondo joe]

21. Hillary's "substantive record" on things that happened before she was in the Senate?

???

[rateyes]

40. She was for it, before she was against it. Sound familiar? nt

[mondo joe]

48. I am just asking what her RECORD is on it, since she wasn't in the senate at the

time. Thanks.

[rateyes]

49. She's on record. She was for it before she was against it. nt

[mondo joe]

50. Okay - glad she's against it.

Most politicians - and voters - show progress on gay issues.

[rateyes]

51. Well, to be exact...Obama was always against it, and said all

of it should be repealed. Clinton is, late coming to it, only for repealing PART of that law.

Surprise, Surprise!! Clinton and Obama PANDER (as do all candidates).

[mondo joe]

52. And Kucinich used to be anti-choice. He improved.

Glad Obama was always against it. Too bad he's willing to piss on us to pander to religious bigots.

[rateyes]

54. Just like Hillary is willing to piss on you to pander to the

religious bigots, and then piss on the religious bigots to pander to you.

Why the HELL would a gay person want to vote for either of them?

[mondo joe]

59. Gay people don't need to be told what's in our interest, or what's

offensive. Thanks!

[rateyes]

64. And, gay people don't speak with one voice...

thank you. You overlook Clinton's faults, but hone in on Obamas. Quite telling.

[mondo joe]

68. I'm not overlooking Clinton's faults. I think she will better serve my

family than Obama, because he's a little too deep in the pocket of religious bigots.

[sendero]

43. Sorry Obama..

... this guy was not a "supporter". You put him on the stage. You really aren't very good at spin, and you just killed, definitively, any chance you might have had to get the nomination.

[MuseRider]

7. What?

What does that have to do with anything? I know a lot of people who go to church who go home and do the most disgusting, non church like things. So he belongs to a church, well good for him. :shrug:

[rateyes]

15. Thanks for making my point. nt

[mandyky]

8. Howard Dean attends UCC

He mentioned it in his interview in the last election. :)

[FredScuttle]

9. Too bad he couldn't see fit to have someone from his church deliver a message of tolerance

instead of giving a starring role to a homophobe.

[Cronus Protagonist]

39. Stop, you're killing me Fred... that made me SMIRL

That crack made me smile in real life (SMIRL).

:)

[Bluebear]

13. A shame he didn't invite someone from his own church to MC his program

instead of a gaybashing personality.

[illinoisprogressive]

14. most of the venom here is from Hillary supporters. Ignore them on this issue.

[rateyes]

18. I think Hillary supporters who are trashing Barack should remember

1. Defense of Marriage Act (Hillary Supported)

2. "Don't ask, Don't tell" (Hillary Supported)

[trumad]

20. Oh horse shit...

The dude had a homophobic asshole MC his event...

And Social Security....

I'm no Hillary supporter...

I'm just one pissed off Progressive Dem who thinks Obama has shit for brains.

[mondo joe]

25. But DADT was an improvement over what it succeeded. And even DOMA

was better than a constitutional amendment against same sex marriage.

[rateyes]

41. As if such an amendment had a rat's chance of passing anyway...

right? Political pandering.

[TheUniverse]

22. I most certainly am not a hillary supporter...

And I think Obama has some major explaining to do. Im not really getting into the internal primary politics, but I know when someone does something wrong.

[ElizabethDC]

24. Oh, the irony.

:eyes:

[juajen]

27. I'm not biting anybody.

That's a broad brush you're using.

[TheUniverse]

19. He needs to apologize.

Yes Obama, did not say the nonsense about Jesus Curing gay people, but he provided a platform for someone else to do it. That is bad also. He can make this whole controversy go away if he apologizes for it.

[ElizabethDC]

23. Hillary is not, nor has she ever been, a Baptist. She's a Methodist.

but don't let the facts get in the way . . .

[Elspeth]

26. You mean he DIDN'T go to a madrassa and his name isn't Osama?

(Has anyone told the right wing?)

[RB TexLa]

29. Hillary is Methodist

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/candidates/hillary.clinton.html

Hillary Clinton
Candidate status: Announced
Filed a statement of candidacy with the FEC on January 22, 2007


Current job: U.S. senator from New York

Birth date: October 26, 1947, Chicago, Illinois

Family: Married Bill Clinton (1975-present); Children: Chelsea (1980)

Religion: Methodist

Education: Wellesley College, B.A., 1969; Yale University Law School, J.D., 1973

Campaign Web site: www.hillaryclinton.com

[rateyes]

42. She grew up Methodist....

she attended church at a Baptist Church in Little Rock for most of her political life.

[ElizabethDC]

57. She has never belonged to the Baptist Church, though.

her husband is Baptist, and I would imagine that they would want to attend church together from time to time, but Hillary continues to be a Methodist (you should read her autobiography, she talks a lot about it) and Chelsea was confirmed in the Methodist Church (they gave her a choice between her father's denomination and her mother's, thus demonstrating that Hillary was still a Methodist as an adult.)

So, in summary, your OP is incorrect.

[Toasterlad]

30. It Would Be Nice If Obama Supporters Could Just Admit Their Guy Fucked Up

Without dragging someone else in. When Hillary Clinton hires a virulently anti-gay performer to deliver a 1/2 hour message on the evils of homosexuality to an audience of people who hate gay people, then I will blast Hillary. Until then, she hasn't done nearly as much harm to the gay community as Barack Obama.

And I am NOT a Hillary supporter. Not everyone who is anti-Obama is pro-Hillary. Particularly after this McClosetcase debacle. Learn to deal with the fact that just because some people find your guy a hypocritical piece of shit, it doesn't mean they're saying so for someone else's benefit. He has given the gay community more than enough cause to dislike him on his own merits.

[Trajan]

32. As an Atheist .... There are a few denominations which I find to be 'mild'

Inclusive and accepting .... UCC is one of those ....

This crap is a small bump in the road ..... nearly meaningless ....

And while I am not moved to ecstasy by any of the candidates, I will CERTAINLY dance in the streets once one of them takes a seat in the Oval Office come 2009 .... So I do not share your utter pessimism about them ...

[Yukari Yakumo]

33. And this is relevant... how?

[rateyes]

44. I'm saying that people are judging Obama's stance on

homosexuality by ONE event. Look at the whole record. Guilt by association can be used against anyone. Might I remind you of Hillary Clinton's relationship with Rupert Murdoch?

[Chovexani]

66. One crass, calculated attempt at pandering

And the way he handled it afterwards.

This is not about "guilt by association", this is about the fact that this man gave a well-known "ex-gay" homophobe a platform to spout his disgusting views. McCloset's bullshit is no different to Ann Coulter's hateful remarks about "perfecting" Jews.

Why the fuck don't the Obama fanboys understand this? This is not about your guy, this is way bigger than just one candidate or campaign. This is about the fact that homophobia is the last acceptable prejudice in this society. If a major Democratic candidate had given the mic to David Duke people would be screaming in outrage and rightfully so. Yet the Obama fanboys are willing to give him a pass on this.

The fact that your blind support of a candidate, over and above the very real concerns of the LGBT community causes you to minimize us speaks volumes. You're a bigot enabler in the name of rooting for your guy to win, like this is a goddamn football game.

[uppityperson]

36. That's good. UCC is a good group overall.

Of course some people belonging to UCC are (fill in the blank)ism, but the thing as a whole is doing good things.

[Hekate]

37. How dast you commit common sense?

For which I thank you.

Hekate

[Cronus Protagonist]

38. You're right - he DID screw up

If he tosses out such a wonderful expression of support and love for all so easily during a political campaign, how deep is his faith? In fact, how deep is one's love for another that it would be tossed off the altar of faith so easily? Hmmmmmmmm.... or are we to conclude that he does not follow the tenets of his church?

[rateyes]

45. Conclude what you want, but don't forget about

Hillary and Rupert, and DOMA when making your conclusions about her.

[Freddie Stubbs]

46. And John Kerry was a member of the Roman Catholic Church

What is the Roman Catholic Church's policy on abortion?

[rateyes]

55. And, what is Obama's position on DOMA, and what

is Hillary's position on DOMA?

[mondo joe]

62. Here you go.

“Senator Clinton believes that each state should make its own decisions regarding marriage or civil unions, but once a state legalizes such relationships, these relationships should receive full federal recognition and benefits,” Ethan Geto, senior national adviser to Senator Clinton on LGBT Issues, explained in an e-mail to The Advocate. “As several states have legalized gay marriage or civil unions, Senator Clinton has come to believe that the restrictions imposed by DOMA on federal government recognition of same-sex relationships are unfair.”

http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid46508.asp

[rateyes]

65. That, my friend, is called a flip-flop...

...she is a classic fence-rider.

[mondo joe]

67. Are you opposed to political figures changing their minds?

Yuo must really love Bush. He's all about "stay the course".

[CT_Progressive]

53. Official Voting Record of Barak Obama on Civil Rights Issues :

* Better enforce women's pay equity via Equal Pay Act. (Aug 2007)
* Strengthen the Americans with Disabilities Act. (Aug 2007)
* Has any marriage broken up because two gays hold hands? (Aug 2007)
* We need strong civil unions, not just weak civil unions. (Aug 2007)
* Legal rights for gays are conferred by state, not by church. (Aug 2007)
* Disentangle gay rights from the word "marriage". (Aug 2007)
* Gay marriage is less important that equal gay rights. (Aug 2007)
* Gay rights movement is somewhat like civil rights movement. (Aug 2007)
* Let each denominations decide on recognizing gay marriage. (Jul 2007)
* Racial equality good for America as a whole. (Jun 2007)
* Put the Confederate flag in a museum, not the state house. (Apr 2007)
* Supports health benefits for gay civil partners. (Oct 2006)
* Muslim heritage gives Obama unique influence in Muslim world. (Oct 2006)
* Opposes gay marriage; supports civil union & gay equality. (Oct 2006)
* No black or white America--just United States of America. (Oct 2006)
* Marriage not a human right; non-discrimination is. (Oct 2004)
* African-Americans vote Democratic because of issue stances. (Jul 2004)
* Forthright on racial issues and on his civil rights history. (Jul 2004)
* Defend freedom and equality under law. (May 2004)
* Politicians: don't use religion to insulate from criticism. (Apr 2004)
* Supports affirmative action in colleges and government. (Jul 1998)
* Include sexual orientation in anti-discrimination laws. (Jul 1998)
* Miscegenation a felony in 1960 when Obamas practiced it. (Aug 1996)
* The civil rights movement was a success. (Aug 1996)
* Voted NO on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration. (Jun 2006)
* Voted NO on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006)

[FredScuttle]

69. Official Campaign Event Entertainment Hiring Record of Barack Obama:

* Hired "ex-gay" and known homophobe Donnie McClurkin to MC campaign fundraising gospel concert entitled "Embrace the Change". Gave him a 1/2 hour to explain to the audience how God delivered him from homosexuality and that God was better than the blogs attacking him (October 2007)

[jonnyblitz]

58. Obama is a fucking IDIOT no matter what church he goes to. nt

[libnnc]

60. Then he should have known better

to pander to an element of the religious community that he disagrees with.

He's not dumb. And it's no excuse. To me, it makes it even worse.

[Renew Deal]

61. I think that's the same church as Reagan

BTW

[JohnLocke]

63. No. He was Presbyterian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bel_Air_Presbyterian_Church
http://www.adherents.com/people/pr/Ronald_Reagan.html