Mr Buchanon - it is wierd how we have similar views lately -

[Joe for Clark]

Cause frankly I never thought I'd ever really agree with you.

Who would you vote for Pat? - lets say you get three choices -

You can vote for Hillary - You will never agree on domestic policy AND she would probably be elected by supporting a premptive attack policy- you know, worst of both worlds - and you'd have to vote for a Clinton. That could leave scares for you.

You can go for Guliiani - great, you get an eastern republican pro-choice catholic, won't that do wonders for that party! And you'd have to over look the fact he sold out a principle just to get elected. You gonna sell your principles??

If Gore did run - we both know you'd support that run in about ten seconds. You may not agree in domestic policies, but you know damn well you agree with foreign policy - and the countries fate is going to be decided in that venue.

We are both Americans first Pat - You say what you really think - now - and you just might tip fate.

Speak up Pat. Some of us are listening to you that never agreed with your idea of domestic policy - and we are coming to the same conclusion that domestic policy disputes are internal to us - and if we do not cut short this foreign policy, we may not even get the chance to debate it in a meaningful way.

Speak up Pat - we know your true conservative credentials. And you have a bully platform. You are in the strange position to tip this thing.

Joe

[DesertFlower]

1. i'm not saying i like him

but sometimes he does make sense. :blush:

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Buchanan is one of the few conservatives I can stand

He says some pretty smart things every once in awhile.

[cali]

3. he's a bigoted asshole and crazy as a shithouse rat. n/t

[Joe for Clark]

5. He is- doesn't mean is isn't pretty smart.

He said once, simple and striking. We shouldn't be thinking about war with Iran.

Not because it is right or not - just because they can't really touch us.

This sounds pretty cold -but there are a lot of things in life that are cold. He said -you know if Iran really ever did try and strike us we can burn their country to the ground in less than an hour. We can - and we would. And they know it.

They are not the USSR - we shouldn't be treating them with that kind of caution.

That really does sound cold - but it is true - and it is one hell of a position to be in to negotiate anything. What ever they do does not and cannot alter the position they are in - and they are not suicidal. I am not worried about Iran hitting us.

They can't. And people who talk about war the way Bu*h is - are fools tempting fate.

Joe

[Al Federfer]

4. When Buchanan is good, he's pretty damn good. n/t

[cali]

6. so what? really?

His views on things liberals are supposed to care about are horrible. He's no better than Lou Dobbs regarding immigrants. He's against a social safety net. He doesn't give a shit about working people or extending health care.

There are lots of people who are right about Iraq. Why use Buchanan as an authority?

[Joe for Clark]

9. Don't you know why? He does represent a true conservative

philosophy -he really does and he has demonstrated principle on that.

Foreign intervention is a really big no-no in that thought process.

SO - if that is the guiding principle - he will follow principle.

I respect that - agree with what he says about domestic policy or not- I do respect people that act out of principle. Most people do.

And then the question - if we do not act in the best way to protect our foreign policy - how much do you think domestic agendas matter in the end? In the middle of a big war - do you think it matters how you come down on a tax policy?

I know you don't- and neither would he - and that is the point.

Joe

[cali]

10. no. he doesn't . He's a xenophobe. That does not represent

true conservatism. Want a true old fashioned conservative? Jim Jeffords, Ed Brooks and Lincoln Chafee is where you should be looking.

[Joe for Clark]

11. Well, we can agree to disagree- but conservatisism is a

philosophy - just that. Goldwater was the epitomy - and he would be rolling over in his grave now about what has been happening. SO do the Nixon people. And that is what Pat really is - a Nixon person.

Joe

[LeftishBrit]

17. I would NEVER have believed that I would ever defend Nixon...

but compared with Buchanan - or Bush for that matter- he was (politically, in not personally) an angel. He pursued disarmament negotiaions with the Soviet Union, and achieved peaceful relations with China - in contrast with the attitudes of both the warmonger Bush and the xenophobic racist isolationist Buchanan.

Not in my list of five hundred favourite people; but less of a danger to his country and the world than Bush, or than Buchanan would be if elected.

[Joe for Clark]

28. Oh it is not his politics - I could never live with that - but he

has made some of the best calls against this middle east build up I have seen.

He is a lot of things, generally bad - but he is so spot on about this war and potential wars that could follow. At heart, as any principled conservative would be - he is a non-interventionalist. He would not support a pro war person, not now - it has gone too far. He knows it.

Joe

[H2O Man]

7. He is an odd mix.

Those of us with extended Irish families tend to have an "Uncle Pat" somewhere, who we run into at weddings and funerals. His views on social policy tend to be way wrong, but his insight on foreign policy is impressive. If you hang out with Uncle Pat for a short time, it can be okay. But you don't want to hang out with him too long.

[Joe for Clark]

8. Well said.

Joe

[trumad]

12. He's a racist fuck.

Period!

[H2O Man]

13. Buchanan? n/t

[trumad]

15. yeah

[H2O Man]

18. Do you think

he's as racist as Harry Truman was?

[cali]

20. Not excusing Harry Truman, but that kind of racism

was far more widespread and more accepted 55+ years ago, than it is today.

[cuke]

21. You want to compare him to Truman?

That was sixty years ago.

[trumad]

24. Different time---different era.

[H2O Man]

25. It would be

hard to be "same time -- different era."

[trumad]

26. NFL is tougher than boxing...

:hide:

Hey--- I had nothing.

[H2O Man]

27. This weekend .....

who are you picking in the super middleweight unification super fight? It's on HBO.

I assume that you know that Patrick Buchanan was a tough guy in his youth. Heck of a fighter. (I was hoping that your recent visit to church would help you view the Irish as fully human, by the way.)

[book_worm]

30. Truman was the first president since reconstruction to propose a Civil Rights program and also he

desegragated the armed services, something FDR refused to do. In his personal life he may have held southern views on race, but as president he was one of the first of this century to do something to help the black man.

[H2O Man]

31. True.

Of course, racism is not limited to domestic, white and black relations.

I think highly of Truman, in many ways. However, any fair view of him has to take into account that he held racist views as an individual, and made at least one poor decision on foreign relations as a result of his views on race.

Joe Louis and Walker Smith were pushing the issue of integration in the military. While Truman deserves credit and respect, he had pressures that created an opportunity.

And, perhaps most important in the context of this thread, I was merely giving trumad a hard time. Not in a bad way -- we're old friends.

[Joe for Clark]

14. I am sure everything is so simple.

Joe

[LeftishBrit]

16. As far as I'm concerned...

being anti-war can NEVER excuse racism, right-wing policies on most issues, or defending one of the most evil people in Europe (LePen).

I'm as anti-war and anti-Bush as they come; but the enemy of my enemy is NOT always my friend!

[Disturbed]

19. Most Paleo-Conservatives were against the Invasion of Iraq.

Most of them are isolationists & strict constructionists. Those principles do not place them
in the sphere of Dems, Greens or Socialists.

[cuke]

22. Another reactionary pushing right wing propoganda

and another DUer carrying their water.

Hey, guess what Joe? There are plenty of anti-war advocates who are also NOT racists. Why don't you talk about how you agree with them, or does the non-racist part make that too difficult to do?

[robcon]

23. I remember 8 years ago how much Nader and Buchanan agreed.

Their conclusions/policies were very similar, especially on trade - although they came from different directions.

[book_worm]

29. Pat would always vote for the GOP nominee--even Rudy Gouliani