"Illegal looters" do turn out to be a family gathering supplies

[EFerrari]

for their extended family. Family is broken up, six deported with one child who is an American citizen.

The Forgotten Victims of the California Wildfires: Undocumented Migrant Workers


Andrea Guerrero of the San Diego Immigrant Rights Consortium says law enforcement deported evacuees and checked identifications of evacuees fleeing fires.

Thousands of people are beginning to return home as the wildfires across Southern California slowly die out. But for the thousands of undocumented migrant workers in San Diego's lucrative agriculture industry, the process is fraught with the threat of harassment and deportation.

snip

This was further exacerbated, as you pointed out, by the deportation of a family of evacuees that had been encouraged to take supplies back home, because they didn’t know what they would find back home. And upon exiting the evacuation center, they were apprehended by city police. They were alleged with looting; they were not formally charged. Border Patrol was called in. Border Patrol undertook an immigration inspection and then ultimately deported them. This created even more apprehension among the documented and undocumented immigrants at Qualcomm Stadium and has led to an overall climate of fear and apprehension. In certain instances, there were families inside Qualcomm Stadium who were afraid to leave, and those -- there were those who left and didn’t take any supplies, much-needed supplies, because they were afraid that they also would be subject to an immigration inspection. There are many more who never came to an evacuation center, because of all of this that they were hearing about.

snip

ANDREA GUERRERO: My understanding is that there were only seven deaths in this fire, and that in itself is remarkable. That’s a credit to the first responders, the firefighters, etc., given the scope of this fire. However, four of those were immigrants. We don’t know if they were documented or undocumented. We don’t know the circumstances of their death. But that’s over half.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/29/141205

Oh, and thanks to the volunteer firefighters of Tijuana who crossed the border to fight the fire!

[NOLALady]

1. Maybe because I live in K-Ville, that was my first thought.

"Illegal looters" do turn out to be a family gathering supplies

[tjwash]

2. It was in this mornings union trib too.

nt

[EFerrari]

7. How's the air down there today? You all must be exhausted.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. Descent but I am at the coast

at my sis it was ok... last night

She is near the fire zone

[EFerrari]

41. Thoughts & wishes for your family.

:hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. Heard Amy talking about this today

Just repulsive.

[EFerrari]

6. I knew there was something wrong with that story on Friday.

It made no sense for undocumented workers to go INTO a situation that is crawling with officials and try to STEAL.

[merh]

16. oh bullshit, as pointed out by respected, open minded DUers

the other article said that they admitted to stealing the supplies to resale them. :sarcasm: :argh: :cry:

The hate that is in our society is heartbreaking and frightening. The immigration issues fanned by our political leadership and the crazy pundits has just made it okay to be a racist - you can hate folks that don't have their papers, that is what a true amurikun does. :cry:

[EFerrari]

18. The danger was from fire and from ICE, not from Latinos.

We go from zero to hate in minutes any more. :(

[merh]

22. I know

:hug:

I want my nation back - I want the hope and promise to return. :(

:hug:

[NNN0LHI]

4. Who the fuck was running Qualcomm? The KKK? Skinheads? Who?

Anyone know?

Don

[EFerrari]

5. I don't know -- wouldn't it be the County?

It's disgusting that not only Border Patrol but apparently city cops and even rescue workers were checking IDs.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. Amy Goodman said local cops stopped and searched them as they were leaving

[EFerrari]

11. And in trying to bust undocumented workers, homeless people

and people whose ID didn't match their current address were also hassled.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Well that is against SDPD policy, hope the department gets sued

[EFerrari]

44. Sued? It sounds like it was planned out beforehand.

That seems to be the trend -- to get local law enforcement involved with ICE and other immigration units.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. It's against their written policy

period.

The ACLU must know, becuase there is a lawsuit in there.

[EFerrari]

50. Oh, sure. But this seems to be a trend that local law enforcement

is having to deal with all over the country. BushCo federal bullies v. local police departments.

And of course, it's the local community that suffers from the destroyed trust.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Once again, if there is any proof to this story

a lawsuit is in there.

That is the only way to stop this.

I repeat

THIS BREAKS WRITTEN POLICIES AND PROCEDURES FOR SAN DIEGO POLICE DEPARTMENT

That is how you stop this

You take them to court.

And when I say proof, I say provable in a court of law.

[countryjake]

89. Saw a CNN clip, early last Thurs. morning, they called it "verification process"

Here is the CNN "American Morning" transcript containing the extremely brief interview of Sergeant Juan Gonzales, with the San Diego Police Department, explaining how they emptied out more than 50 percent of the people who were staying at QUALCOMM Stadium earlier that night.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0710/25/ltm.02.html

The bit is about halfway down the page, Kiran Chetry did that piece with Gonzales at the stadium.

Evidently, undocumented workers are not even considered evacuees during these fires, according to some down there. And you are shit out of luck finding shelter or aid during a Fire Storm if your "papers" got burnt.

[EFerrari]

91. I read a NYTs article that said, "San Diego likes its illegal aliens

as invisible as possible." I didn't post the article because it mostly rehashed bs, but that particular phrase was telling and, imho, true.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. Amy also said that ICE was in the stadium checking papers on all the HIspanics

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. The plans (yes I have seen them, long story) call for the Q

to be opened as a last resource and to be run by combo of city and county officials with support from the American Red Cross

Hope that answers the question

And why when Jerry Sanders said it was his brilliant idea I went BULLSHIT!

[EFerrari]

8. Kick

[Richard Steele]

10. Gee, so the immigrant-bashers were WRONG?

What a shock. :sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

12. I'm sure they'll all show up to apologize to bob_weaver

any time now.

[Richard Steele]

14. Yeah, no doubt.

:eyes:

[devilgrrl]

82. But but but why are you defending theft????

:sarcasm:

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. Oh give it time

They will find at least one family who smuggled across the border and deliberately got in the way of the fire so they could go live in a stadium and steal food and supplies!

:sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

19. LOL! They must have hitched a ride with the firefighters who came north

to help work the fire. Or, maybe they were just DISGUISED as firefighters.

[NorthernSpy]

17. a witness at the scene says that there was a group harassing various nonwhite people...

All of the ACLU lawyers and immigrants rights volunteers I spoke to today suspected that the arrest and deportation of these six immigrants was prompted by racial profiling. Today, I was able to observe how one African-American woman was accused of stealing supplies as she loaded her belongings unto her SUV. I asked her what was happening and she assured me that all the things in her car belonged to her and her children. I could tell she was telling the truth because none of the things I saw in her car were the same as the items that were being distributed at the site. This did not stop several overzealous European-American onlookers from writing down her license plate, taking digital camera pictures of her car, and commenting on her ‘audacity’ for taking so many things.

If we could find this woman, maybe she could tell us everything she remembers about the people who were doing the harassing.


http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/10/26/18456247.php



Pull the thread, see where it leads.

[NorthernSpy]

20. another thought: what if someone set those six people up?

Told them that they could help themselves to supplies, and then called the cops on Those Goddamn People Stealing Our Stuff.


It's possible.

[Richard Steele]

24. Well, I was just about to post how "coincidentally organized" this story seemed to be...

What with it being reported by a "concerned" caller to
one of the network news shows minutes after it happened,
and now the reports of GROUPS harassing minorities there.

Wouldn't surprise me a bit to discover that the entire
incident was deliberately provoked and/or ORCHESTRATED by
some group of "Real Merkins", knowhutImean?

[EFerrari]

26. Sounds like it was a community project.. Some of those 'Merikans

were in police and Red Cross uniforms. No evacuation instructions were issued in Spanish by the city or county despite the large population of Spanish speakers.

[EFerrari]

38. Here's the link to the initial story that bob_weaver posted.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2133091

[devilgrrl]

83. Well, at least you and I were right on the money.

:-)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2133091&mesg_id=2135018

[EFerrari]

85. If nothing else, BushCo has finely tuned our BS detectors.

:)

[NOLALady]

81. Unfortunately, this does not surprise me.

[EFerrari]

86. It's become a pattern now. In case of emergency

lash out at the most helpless people. :(

[EFerrari]

21. AFP: Mexican "bomberos" helping California wildfire effort

by David Finnigan Sun Oct 28, 5:02 PM ET

EL CAJON, United States (AFP) - More than three dozen Mexican firefighters have been tackling California's wildfires in what officials say is the first time firemen from south of the border have battled blazes on US soil.

"Firefighters are firefighters; it doesn't matter if they're Mexican or American," said Marco Antonio Sanchez Navarro, Director of Tijuana Fire and Civil Protection.

"The fires are taking a lot of homes of not only Americans but Mexicans who live in the US," added Sanchez Navarro.

The Spanish word for firefighters is "bomberos" and it is used with praise and respect at the sprawling base camp of the Harris Fire in eastern San Diego county near the US-Mexico border.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071028/ts_alt_afp/usfiresmexico_071028210213

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. FYI when I saw the convoy I knew it was bad

Again seen and worked on plans and the fact that interborder mutual aide was activated told me... this is big

And I know Comandante Sanchez, a good guy... he WAS my CO so many years ago...

[EFerrari]

45. Yep. But in the middle of it all, enough time to manhandle helpless people

and worse.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Unfortunately, and not justifying it, but this happens in EVERY

disaster... it is not exclusive to the US.

I could tell you stories of army abuse south of the border during the floods of '97

Or the horror stories I've heard from '71... yes they make NOLA look like a damn walk in the park... yes they are that horrible

What about the Mexico City Quake in '86

Or the explosion a year before?

These are the times when people in power structures take advantage... my cynical self told me... things are going very well, but once the cameras are off.. WATCH OUT!

[EFerrari]

48. Of course. When I visited San Salvador in 68

there was a 10 year old encampment of earthquake survivors.

But, US citizens seem to have this idea that it doesn't happen here. And, that's all by itself, dangerous.

[EFerrari]

23. LA Times: Illegal immigrants feared fire evacuations

By Richard Marosi, Los Angeles Times | October 29, 2007

SAN DIEGO - Flames were only one worry for some illegal immigrants in the California fire zone. Equally scary were the crowded roads and evacuation centers, heavy with law enforcement officers, including US Border Patrol agents.

Some wondered if they would be deported if they went to shelters.

"We decided that we wouldn't go because they ask for your name and everything," said day laborer Jose Salgado as he waited for work last week off the Interstate 5 freeway near Rancho Santa Fe.

His friends working in the nearby tomato fields had different concerns, he said: "They didn't know if they would have a job when they got back."

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/10/29/illegal_immigrants_feared_fire_evacuations/

[EFerrari]

25. AP: Four charred bodies found in migrant camp

Four charred bodies found in migrant camp

By: Associated Press -

SAN DIEGO -- Four charred bodies were found Thursday in what is believed to be a migrant camp just east of San Diego in an area ravaged by wildfires.

The bodies were found in a wooded section near Barrett Junction, along the Mexican border, said Paul Parker, a spokesman for the San Diego County medical examiner's office.

It was unclear how long ago the victims died or if they were victims of this week's ferocious wildfires that have killed at least three other people. They were tentatively identified as three men and one woman.

"They could have been out there a while," Parker said.

The area was burned by the Harris Fire, the same blaze that claimed the life of a 52-year-old man who refused to leave his house in nearby Tecate when the area was evacuated Sunday.

The bodies were discovered as authorities were beginning to allow tens of thousands of people, evacuated earlier in the week, back into areas where more than 482,000 acres -- about 753 square miles -- have been blackened by fires that began breaking out late Saturday.

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/10/26//news/sandiego/4_59_1710_25_07.txt

[suffragette]

27. Thanks for following up on this

Caught between fire and ICE indeed. And I wonder how many of the stations and papers that trumpeted the initial story will report this.

More from http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/10/28/18456783.php

The evacuees were detained by the police for three hours on site without being charged. The police asked the evacuees for their documents. When they presented none, the police called in an outside unit of Border Patrol to conduct an "immigration inspection". The police never brought any charges against the evacuees. Prior to the arrival of the BP, a Channel 8 cameraman attempted to film the police interaction with the evacuees. One of the officers covered the camera with his hand, pushed it and the cameraman away, and took the microphone from the reporter. When a Spanish-speaking volunteer attempted to intervene to assist the family, one of the officers took her picture with his cell phone to intimidate her. When BP, came they asked the detained evacuees for documents and six of them (plus a 2-year old U.S. citizen child of one of the evacuees) were taken away, held for several hours without food, and deported. They are needless to say devastated.

Yesterday and this morning, both SDPD and BP reported out that the detained evacuees had confessed to "looting" for the purposes of selling the merchandise. AFSC spoke to the evacuees in Tijuana today and they say emphatically that they never confessed to this. There are no witnesses to this alleged confession. Piolin, a national radio personality from LA paraded through the stadium after the incident and congratulated law enforcement for getting rid of looters. All of the local media outlets regurgitated the law enforcement line about looting, despite being advised by witnesses that they had seen something to the contrary. Lots of comments about how we don't want those people in our country. I heard one BP officer say in defense of the deportation, "Immigrants don't want these kind of people here representing them."

After the incident, Kevin Keenan from ACLU spoke to Chief Lansdowne about our concerns about the improper police pass off. He assured Kevin and then later the public in a press statement that the police were not interested in immigration enforcement. Later that night, around midnight, police walked around the stadium from family to family asking for identification and proof of residency in an evacuated zone. One ID was sufficient for a family. The problem of course was that lots of individuals and families could not produce IDs or the ID addresses did not correspond to an evacuated zone and some folks were just plain homeless and had come in for shelter from the air. Those who could not produce the proper IDs were escorted out in the middle of the night. Those who remained were given wrist bands.

[EFerrari]

28. Do not be poor in a disaster area. It's dangerous.

Later that night, around midnight, police walked around the stadium from family to family asking for identification and proof of residency in an evacuated zone. One ID was sufficient for a family. The problem of course was that lots of individuals and families could not produce IDs or the ID addresses did not correspond to an evacuated zone and some folks were just plain homeless and had come in for shelter from the air. Those who could not produce the proper IDs were escorted out in the middle of the night. Those who remained were given wrist bands.

[flashl]

29. Americanistic. n/t

[EFerrari]

33. Perfect illustration. Also, illustrative of the history of US Mexico

relations, in a snapshot.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. I wonder how many people fleeing a fire stop to grab their birth cerrificates

or passports.

[EFerrari]

35. I'm going to get on my dark curly haired cousins and my mom

to start carrying theirs. It's scary already. And even so, you know some jackass will say it's a forgery.

Once this nativism is let out of the bottle, there's no putting it back in.

[suffragette]

36. "escorted out in the middle of the night"

Victimized twice, once by the fire and then by those who were purportedly there to help them. And where are they now?

And what a choice to make, to stay in an area ravaged by fire (as many did, since they feared going to evacuation centers, for good reason it turns out and/or did not receive the reverse 911 calls) or go to an center controlled by ICE. Add to that the ice running through the veins of those who immediately leaped to the conclusion that they were stealing. Those accusations all seem to be aimed at Latinos or African Americans. Coincidence? Sadly, not.

I would like to hear more from the Channel 8 reporters about what happened. They should speak out about this.

[EFerrari]

37. I'm going to try to write about this. Maybe the Spanish language

outlets will have more.

I feel horror, sadness, anger. You know, there were workers who also stayed behind to save the property of their wealthy employers. I guess they could see this coming a mile away -- and, they did manage to save some homes. Maybe ICE will consider that before they dump them like human refuse for their pains.

/ack

[suffragette]

49. Good idea

Here are two links with more info.
I don't speak Spanish, so please let us know what Univision is saying.

http://www.latinalista.net/palabrafinal/2007/10/why_isnt_cnn_factchecking_a_story_before.html

And, grr, note this important aspect brought up about CNN's reporting. The blogger makes a good point:

CNN, in repeating this story throughout the afternoon, don't have footage of the people accused of stealing so they are using "generic" footage of Latinos sitting in the stadium. Each time, the footage of these San Diego brown-skinned Latino citizens are shown onscreen, the anchor is saying illegal immigrants.

You don't have to be a psychologist to know that the impression being planted in people's minds is that "illegal immigrant" equates with brown-skinned Latinos.

http://www.univision.com/content/video.jhtml?cid=1327999&channelName=Videos&_requestid=102744

I have to take off soon for a couple of hours, but let me know how I can help. I'm good at searching and can help write or proof.

[EFerrari]

51. Thank you!

:)

[countryjake]

111. Here's more from the day after it happened, with some names...

I don't know if you've already seen this article, I have yet to trudge back to that other DU link you've given to read the punishment that "bob weaver" took for whatever he posted on the subject.

The nastiness just makes my blood boil, without natural disasters to fan the flames, and when I saw that damn cop acting as tho he'd nabbed Al Capone, Jesse James, Ma Barker, and Bonnie Parker all rolled into one dangerous desperado criminal family, I've been seething ever since, especially when they then began telling all the stories about the evacuees leaving the stadium, pulling out with mattresses and quilts and pillows and packages of toilet paper and boxes of food and toys and diapers and soap and toothbrushes...everything a sincere relief effort deems necessary for recovery in an area that has suffered a near apocalypse, all donated by caring souls of the San Diego area, California, and the rest of the world! A pillow that cop "recovered" from those families ended up being kicked along on the ground, by his own big feet, as he hurried to separate the "loot" from the "perpetrators". Arrgggh! Can't grasp the "values" this country holds so dear! And can hardly talk about it, civilly. Anyway, hope this article helps, if you're going to write more on the invisible victims of the Fire Storm.

Latino evacuees at stadium feel anxiety
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20071025-1911-bn26deport.html

[High Plains]

30. My America. What a hideous shit hole.

Too goddamned many cops. Cops everywhere. Cops. Cops. Cops.

[EFerrari]

32. It's changed so much. I remember landing in El Salvador

and being freaked out by all the gun toting law enforcement types.

Well, I see the same thing now at the Federal Building where I used to work. I couldn't work there now. It would be impossible because you know it's just a matter of time before someone gets killed. There more kinds of cops there in different uniforms than Ben N Jerry's has ice cream.

/oops

[High Plains]

31. My America. What a hideous shit hole.

Too goddamned many cops. Cops everywhere. Cops. Cops. Cops.

[EFerrari]

53. Kick

[EFerrari]

54. I'm disappointed that the posters who raised questions about my skin color

and my sanity and accused me of "reverse racism" haven't stepped up to admit their error.

Last kick

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. They won't

and you know it

[EFerrari]

56. And my DU experience will be the better for it. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

57. I called it.

If any of you who criticized me for figuring this out last week are reading this, I guess you can just go fuck yourselves.

[EFerrari]

59. Go look at the link in #38 and see how many DUers did call it.

And, ditto.

[devilgrrl]

84. So did I!!!

So ha!!!!

[Rex]

58. That is why we have different Americas - one for white people and

the rest for minorities of different shapes and colors.

That is why white people 'forage' for supplies during a natural crisis, while black people 'loot' stores during a natural crisis. Can't get more obvious racist than that. Civil Rights? Ha. Maybe back in the day.

And down towards the bottom of the list? 'Illegal aliens, almost not considered lifeforms by some. Some even on this board. Makes the heart a sad place.

[EFerrari]

60. Today undocumented burned to death workers.

And, black people who showed up at Qualcomm harassed.

What's next on the menu? Don't forget to rec this because this is the slippery slope we have to confront now. NOW. Our DUers on the Gulf Coast know it. Our DUers in NYC know it.

What's it gonna take before we stand up for each other?

[Rex]

61. I guess a total breakdown of all civil rights.

Maybe? At one time I thought we had decent people running this country. :(

[EFerrari]

62. We've just witnessed a planned round up.

There's no way the city cops just casually got in touch with ICE to make this happen.

The planted and broadcast fake looting story, the coordination even among Red Cross workers.

If people don't think this will come back to bite them, they're wrong.

[Richard Steele]

64. Yup. Planted a fake story to preempt any outrage.

I really suspect that's EXACTLY what happened.

[EFerrari]

68. Manipulation Central.

And Joe Sixpak that's cheerleading this has no clue that he will ever be at the receiving end.

[Rex]

66. Ya I know, that sent chills down my spine.

Means it was coordinated and where you find cooperation between officials, you find an agenda.

[EFerrari]

69. I don't want to be one of those hysterical screamers.

It's unlovely and it makes people turn off and ignore you, right?

If there's this level of cooperation between city cops AND Ice AND rescue workers, we're in trouble.

Because the people who could help law abiding citizens in an emergency can't possibly go up against that kind of coordination.

(I guess today I AM one of those hysterical screamers.)

Mostly, I'm just asking that we really see what we're looking at.

[Rex]

70. Naw, hey I get a big bowl of nuts for actually believing a few CTs

Since it is so NOT PC to believe the truth nowadays. I see the world for what it is. I see our country falling into a world of quasi-legal authoritarianism.

[EFerrari]

72. It's not a conspiracy theory if it turns out to be policy.

Just like those "frat pranks" at Abu Graib wasn't about a few kids with digital cameras although Rumfeld sure wanted us to believe that.

[Rex]

73. It is amazing how politicians tap dance around torture and violation

of international law. If our Feds have such little regard for others laws, how will they treat those here illegally?

[EFerrari]

75. I've been trying to say for a long time that US citizens

ALWAYS get caught up in these actions.

Thanks for listening, Rex.

[Rex]

76. Hey ya know.

We got to stick together on humanity. :)

[EFerrari]

78. Now, there's an idea.

:)

[Kurovski]

63. K&R

I'm put in mind of the reporting during Katrina of looting vs. "gathering supplies".

The beat goes on.

[EFerrari]

65. Once our government starts down this road

where does it stop?

That's the real lesson. It's not about people so very different than we are.

It's the same way they tortured a confession out of John Walker Lindh. The same way Jena was ignored.

There is a terrible wave of hatred sweeping this country.

[Blue_Tires]

67. ttt n/t

[LanternWaste]

71. Quite the contrast to the other thread...

Quite the contrast to the other thread concerning this topic alleging that they were indeed thieves.

Our true colors can fly at the most inopportune and embarrassing of moments sometimes.

Thanks for posting this.

[EFerrari]

74. Go back and read that thread. A number of DUers called it out.

The link is in #38 on this one.

In a way, the skepticism is a measure of how careful DUers try to be in the face of propaganda. :)

[tjwash]

77. I can't even bear to look at that thread again.

I don't want to look at that thread again. I never lost so much respect, for so many people, in so little time. Until then I had respect for quite a few of them. It turned into a freaking troll fest, with people just oozing out from under their rocks.

[EFerrari]

79. There's always been a xenophobic contingent on DU.

But, that isn't by far the majority, that isn't the heart of DU.

DUers have come together to help out in every kind of emergency.

That's who DUers are. :toast:

[LanternWaste]

110. I re-read the thread in its entirety.

I re-read the thread in its entirety. On one hand, it illustrates some very sobering knee-jerk racism, but those were farther and fewer in between than I had remembered (and, it put a few posters into a new light for me).

But it was heartening to see so many people living the tenets of progressivism rather than just paying lip service to it.

I've bookmarked that thread. The only one on DU I've ever bookmarked. I don't know why I did, but I think I'll spend way to much time re-reading it and re-reading things into it...

[LanternWaste]

103. You're right of course

You're right of course. But coming across even one semi-bigoted or un-empathic post on DU is jarring-- I tend to remember those more than our typical progressive-nature posts.

[EFerrari]

105. Imho, the culture is being contaminated.

When you're in the fishbowl, you're subject to the fishbowl environment with all its contaminants.

And, imho, it is jarring. But that's a good thing because the "jarring" can help us right ourselves.

We'll be fine. :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. kick

[EFerrari]

87. Rancho Bernardo: Golf course crew battled to save 6 homes

Golf course crew battled to save 6 homes

By Tod Leonard
STAFF WRITER

October 28, 2007

RANCHO BERNARDO – The golfer had just finished his round at the Rancho Bernardo Inn late Friday afternoon when he spotted golf course superintendent Dave Buckles.

“There's our hero!” said the man, a cigarette in hand and a golf bag on his shoulder. “We hear you're going to be a TV star!”

Buckles smiled slightly and, trying to deflect the attention, offered an aw-shucks comment about getting attention for how pristine his golf course is. Then he said in a near whisper, “I'm not looking for congratulations.”

snip

Helping him fight the fire were Esteban Chavez, Jorge Rosales, Manuel Soto, Julio Montes, Alfonso Escutia, Jose Luis Valencia, Guillermo Heredia and Pedro Ramirez.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071028/news_1m28buckles.html

[countryjake]

88. Fleeing a natural disaster, confronted with discrimination...shameful!

I saw that story about the "suspected looting" on an online news report, when it happened, and I was embarrassed to be an American (brought back rotten Katrina images, sad to say) by such callous disregard for families with terrified children, who had been surviving at that stadium all week under a mandatory evacuation from a freakin' FIRE STORM. The cop was snatching pillows and a cooler from some moms and a few kids, (a little one was on her mama's arm) and there was quite a bunch of weary-looking people who seemed to be doing their best to explain. That report said that nobody was ultimately charged with anything, as items had been freely handed out to many evacuees as they packed up to leave, to go and check to see if their homes were still standing. Of that very large extended family, I think they said that two may be deported. But that was a week ago. I figured that more would be made of this story by both the authorities and the MSM, mainly for the intimidation factor. Grabbing blankies, water and juicy-juice from Hispanic babies seems to play well in the press these days.

I can almost hear the Minuteman cheers!

As to those freebies that swelled into huge piles at that stadium, according to all news reports I heard, they had to finally turn the donors away, they received so much stuff they couldn't handle it all and quite a lot was eventually hauled away to charity orgs or other shelters, to clear the place for the Chargers. I saw some single guy being interviewed as he was stuffing his car with blankets & other bedding, heading home to an apartment; another woman with a toddler was being given big bags full of boxes of diapers and other baby things, more than she could carry and the volunteer was helping them to her car with it all. Neither of those people had lost their homes to fire, they were simply evacuees leaving the Q.

It's a sick nation that tosses compassion and empathy by the wayside during a calamity. Those flames last week were non-discriminating...too bad so many people weren't.

[EFerrari]

92. Ya lo sabia, I knew this would happen, watching Katrina

and reading DUers' stories about fighting to get their most basic needs met.

Our owners can bus undocumented workers all the way to NOLA to clean up their tourist areas for next to no wages and screw the workers IN NOLA for an extra bonus, but they can't give them a roof to get out of the fire. We know who the criminals are in this situation. :grr:

[NNN0LHI]

104. Great post, Sir

You wrote what I was thinking.

Don

[Wcross]

90. My opinion was based on this news report.

However, six people were caught stealing relief supplies yesterday from Qualcomm Stadium. An evacuee reported seeing them load two pickups and a car with cots and other items, leave and then return.
One in the group said they were being paid to take items of value, police Sgt. Jesse Ceseña said. The six, suspected of being illegal immigrants, were turned over to U.S. Border Patrol agents who were at the stadium to assist with relief efforts.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071025/news_1...

Was there only ONE case of people being turned over to the Border Patrol? In this report the people were loading supplies into two pickup trucks & a car. In the current story they were in a van. In this report the people confessed to being paid to take the stuff. Is it possible there were more than one incident?

I based my opinion on this report. I have nothing to apologise for. It is wrong to take supplies if you are not in need regardless of your immigration status. Furthermore I am on record as being opposed to allowing illegal immigration to continue unabated. Do you realize the cost to our working poor? Illegal immigration suppresses the wages of all working poor. It is simple economics, an increased supply of labor reduces the wages paid. Maybe all you cheerleaders for violating our laws are happy that you have a "great President" that agrees 100% with you. I guess if you can pay an illegal less to do your yard work & clean your house it is a "good thing".

We have immigration laws in place. If you oppose the laws, work to get them changed. Maybe we SHOULD increase the work visas issued. Maybe we should overhaul the entire process? To reward those that have violated the law with citizenship in front of those applying the legal way is not fair.
For those that cry "Racist" when someone disagrees with illegal immigration, you really ought to have a REAL argument as to why unlimited and uncontrolled migration is a good thing. Tell me why it is a good thing to allow anyone who can get here to stay. Tell me why it is a good thing. Tell American carpenter why its a good thing that they are here. Tell the people that used to do janitorial work at my plant why it is better to hire people at 7.50 an hour from the cleaning contractor as opposed to the 11.50 an hour the job used to pay. Have you ever wondered why wages are stagnant? Huh?

[EFerrari]

93. I seem to meet you on the strangest threads.

Jena, false claims against Latinos. I don't remember reading you during Katrina, but I was too worried about my friends to take notes.

What does immigration law have to do with saving people from a natural disaster?

And, as for your argument that you based your opinion on that "report", it was pointed out to you over and over that that "report" didn't hold water. And, it since has been debunked but here you are, still defending the indefensible.

If you move quickly, there is a thread on GD that accuses Latinos of setting the fires. You may still have time to recommend it.

[Wcross]

94. I'm not defending the indefensible .

I was explaining what I based my opinion on which was the news report I included. It clearly stated that people were being paid to steal. If you have issues with it, take it up with the newspaper.
Please point out exactly where the story was "debunked" on Bob Weavers thread? Remember, someones opinion does not debunk a story. A retraction from the newspaper would be about the only way to debunk it.
As far as my statement on illegal immigration, it speaks for itself. Seems like a good many here support unregulated migration without considering the effect it has on the working poor in our country. Just read all the posts in Bob's thread.

[EFerrari]

95. Yes, you are defending the indefensible.

The abuse of helpless people fleeing a fire.

You haven't actually read this thread, have you?

[Wcross]

97. No.

I have made NO COMMENT on the content of this thread. I am saying I based my opinion IN BOB WEAVER's thread on the news report I included in THIS thread. I am not making ANY COMMENTS on the content of this thread. I am merely explaining why I posted what I did in Bobs thread and what information I was basing that opinion on.

[EFerrari]

98. Then, you are not bringing all your experience to bear

which is not only an error in logic but a dodging of responsibility.

[Wcross]

100. No. I am explaining my response in Bob's thread. That is all.

You still haven't explained if there could have been two different incidents in which people were detained by the border patrol. One group that was being paid to steal items and your group who were innocently getting needed supplies. I have no problem with ANYONE using needed relief supplies. I do have a problem with people taking them for resale as the report I included seemed to indicate.

[EFerrari]

102. The "resale" story has been debunked.

Had you read this thread, you would know that.

And now, let's take an ignore time out because then no one will get hurt.

[nadinbrzezinski]

96. Damn perhaps I should have left the many American citizens

I transported to either hosptial or border to die on the side of the road

By the way, in your hate, what is your view of the Mexican Firefighters on the line last week?

:-)

By the way the arguments made against this crop if ilegal immigrants were also made against Italians, Jews and Irish, how bout them apples?

[Wcross]

99. All of a sudden it's hate?

Did I say I hated anyone? I said it isn't good for the working poor of this country to have to compete with the 20-30 million new workers who have entered our economy wihout a workers visa. I get it now, fuck the poor! We need more cheap labor!

[nadinbrzezinski]

101. No we need to organize the poor

the working poor

But much of the crap said, is the same crap, different minorty

Historically this is the case, and fear of miscegination is strong.

Look don't blame the ilegals, BLAME THE COMPANIES THAT HIRE THEM

And many of them are not even brown or catholic, but white and come from Europe and yes, even Canada

[Wcross]

106. I never specified anything regarding country of origin.

I agree that the employers should be held accountable for who they hire. Unfortunately the working poor have no voice in the decisions. They can't afford to buy politicians.

[nadinbrzezinski]

107. Yes they do

its called a union

Amazing that the fastest growing union in the US... is organized by latinos and includes many working poor

Oh and don't let history hit you in the rear. last time we had the same phenom happen, it was during an immigration spike.

Look you want to help, REQUIRE EMPLOYMENT LAWS TO BE FOLLOWED...

I know I do.

[EFerrari]

108. I don't even think it's about employers although the bigger ones

have powerful lobbies.

It's just been our policy. Screw up democracy in Latin America, ensure a steady stream of cheap labor.

That's why they're (the owners) are trying to kill, depose, discredit Chavez. He's threatening their monopoly.

So, imho, it's not about the companies that employ 500 undocumented workers. It's about the Corporati that regularly intervene AGAINST progressive governments in Latin America. And that intervention ensures that working people have to go north to feed their families.

Vilifying the employers up here really does stop short of hitting the mark. It's our government's policy. And has been.

[nadinbrzezinski]

109. Empire, that is the word you are looking for

and has been policy since the good ol'd days of the Monroe Doctrine

But those who do not know history....