Another person Tazered to death in an Airport

[n2doc]

Taser death at Vancouver Airport
Posted by Mark Frauenfelder, October 26, 2007 2:23 PM

Akezys says: "Recently police at the Vancouver airport were attempting to question a recent immigrant that could not speak English. They tasered him after 24 seconds of speaking with him. The man had spent 10 hours stuck in the airport with no-one helping him."

The 40-year-old construction worker, who had never left Poland before, was immigrating to Canada to join his mother, 61, who lives in Kamloops, about a five-hour drive from Vancouver.
They had arranged to meet at the baggage carousel in the international terminal at YVR....

Mr. Dziekanski arrived at about 3 p.m. on Sunday, Oct. 14.

"He made his way to primary customs in the ordinary fashion … he went through there in the normal time frame … he then proceeded through and was directed to secondary customs, which is normal for someone who doesn't speak English and is immigrating to the country," Mr. Kosteckyj said. His papers were in order and he proceeded without difficulty.

But what happened after that was far from normal. For nearly 10 hours, Mr. Dziekanski stayed in the Arrivals Hall, growing increasingly frustrated and eventually becoming frantic.

Outside, in the public area, his mother spent nearly six hours pacing the corridors and, in broken English, asking airport officials for help in locating her son.



http://www.boingboing.net/2007/10/26/taser-death-at-vanco.html

[Annces]

1. How sad n/t

[flashl]

2. Its just ED. Move on. There is nothing to see here.

:sarcasm:

[seabeyond]

3. being frustrated is against the law as is being angry. we must lower our eyes

tail between legs. submit. be intimidated. otherwise, we are at fault for any unpleasant event that happens to us, including death.

be the coward our govt wants us to be.

and if we do not fear, are not intimidated, the very people protecting us will abuse us until we do fear or are intimidated

[Amigust]

4. MURDER !!

The individuals immediately involved AND the officials in the department that cause such a death should be prosecuted on charges of murder.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

31. DAMN FUCKING RIGHT!!! - MURDER, FUCKING MURDER!!!!!! nt

[RainDog]

5. yes, murder. n/t

[seabeyond]

6. but but but, they are keeping us safe. 10 hours held without reason

is totally acceptable to keep all the rest of us safe, surely

it is all about me. as long as this doesnt happen to me, but someone else, i feel so much safer getting on that plane. just let me make it thru security without abuse or death, and i am safe.

surely

sarcasm......

[Mojorabbit]

7. This has to stop

There is no excuse for this. None at all.

[seabeyond]

8. too many people, on this board alone are too afraid, too cowardly themselves

have been brainwashed with the what if's.... that they have condoned this behavior at the expense of others, for their own preceived safety.

it will not stop

we have too many selfish cowards in this country

[PDJane]

9. Murder indeed.

And I want to know when Canadian police were given the permission to act as a thug caste.

[dailykoff]

10. Maybe he smuggled a bottle of aftershave on board.

Kill 'em.

[murray hill farm]

11. And the mass consequences of this is....

be afraid, be very afraid...never show frustration, be very quiet..do not take a stand ever, do not speak up...know you have no rights, do not do anything that will call attention to yourself, always keep a low profile, do as you are told, do not complain, be careful what you say and follow the rules completely without showing emotion or fear or confusion. If you do otherwise, you will be dealt with in a way that may lead to death.

[tblue37]

27. I have a cardiac arhythmia. If I were tasered, I would

probably die.

Although I am an educated 57-year-old white woman, which means I am not even in any of the demographics that have long been subject to police brutality, I am terrified of cops. They are too damned Taser happy. They think it's a toy, and they will find any excuse to use it on anybody.

One hope from all this is that now that white people, even middle class and affluent, well-connected white people (like the woman who suppsoedly strangled herself on her handcuffs), are being subjected to this sort of brutality, maybe, just maybe, the brutal abuse of minorities won't be as easily swept under the rug.

As an earleir poster siad, as long as people think it only happens to people that are not like them, they won't care. But when they realize that they can also be abused, all of a sudden it starts to seem like a bad idea to let the abuse continue.

[Contrary1]

12. "Mr. Dziekanski arrived with three bags, two of which were filled with geography books."

Thw world has gone crazy.

Another legacy for Junior.

[OzarkDem]

13. I may stop flying

This type of behavior is becoming too commonplace.

[seabeyond]

14. i stopped flying a couple years ago. i refuse to pay to walk into prison system

where i give up all rights. where abuse is ok. i refuse to give my money to people that insist i must allow myself to be intimidate (i truly do not know how to do that since i am never intimidated) or suffer consequences.

[malaise]

16. I am passing on our family reunion

on Thanksgiving weekend. It just isn't worth this crap.

[gulliver]

15. I would need to see statistics to prefer guns to Tasers.

This is a terrible story, but it is anecdotal and inflammatory. All sides of the issue have to be considered scientifically and statistically. I'm not defending what was done in this case. There apparently is video, and perhaps the highly accurate figure of "24 seconds" was taken from viewing that video. Maybe there is more to the story, so we have to consider sourcing and reporting. It is difficult to imagine that there is not another side to the story. But even if there is, it would be irrelevant to deciding for or against the Taser, because the police story would also be anecdotal.

It is good to have these apparent abuses given attention, because that will help put a stop to abuses. But this information is not sufficient evidence for judging the net effect of the Taser. Have there been deaths from mace, billy clubs, headlocks, and other "non-lethal" methods used by police to subdue or control people? I would assume so. Certainly there have been deaths from guns. How many people (police and suspect) have been spared serious injury or death by the Taser?

What I find frustrating is that the other side of the Taser issue ("Taser 'em all and shoot 'em if that don't stop 'em") undoubtedly has anecdotes to enrage people too. Then all the enraged people on both sides fume and shout. No one keeps a clear head, so no good comes of it.

[flashl]

20. US stats in-custody deaths

Deaths in Custody Statistical Tables

[gulliver]

25. Interesting stats.

Thanks for posting. If we choose to accept the statistics of the DoJ, then tasers are not really that bad in terms of fatalities. 96% of homicides by officers involved firearms from 2003-205. Looks like a taser-like device was listed as the cause of death in only 17 cases out of 2,002 -- which would be less than 1%. There were 36 deaths "involving tasers" overall. The report says that taser deaths are "on the rise" though.

No telling from the stats what would have happened if the taser were not available for use, I guess. The cops might have shot the subject or they might have pulled a gun and the subject might have given up. Or the cops might have used a night stick which ends up not being responsible for many deaths.

My son and I went to a police station for a cub scout event a few years back. The officer who gave the tour and presentation said he had actually volunteered to be tasered to see what it was like. He said it was a very, very bad experience, and he was sorry he did it. The memory of it still bothers him. Still, he carried one.

I think these devices should be heavily controlled. I worry a lot about something like the Raytheon "ray-gun" as well (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/technology/technology.html?in_article_id=482560&in_page_id=1965).

[krispos42]

26. And don't forget... coming soon to a shotgun near you...

http://www.taser.com/PRODUCTS/LAW/Pages/XREP.aspx

[flashl]

28. Taser Intl is in full product protection mode

in the same manner as tobacco or Big pharma companies. Several coroners were "convinced" to change their taser related cause of death. They play hardball with researchers who have had unfavorable tasers studies. It really the same as any moneymaker product all we have to do is fill in the blank with product name.

[seabeyond]

34. choke holds were disallowed as a tool for police because people we dying

and that was a move they used while in hand to hand... yet people were dying and they stopped them. this is people dying before it even gets to the threatening stage of hand to hand.

[seabeyond]

37. .

[MonkeyFunk]

17. Another?

Was there another airport death resulting from tasering?

[Usrename]

32. Why even ask? Would that make it any better?

Keep rationalizing these atrocities.

[cigsandcoffee]

18. Canada is becoming a totalitarian police state!

Isn't this like the 2nd person killed at a Canadian airport in as many weeks?

[cgrindley]

48. That's the dumbest post I've read in weeks

stick your totalitarian crap up your ass. my country is only fifty hundred billions times more free than this stupid country.

[Rosemary2205]

19. Canada is now a facist police state?

Where oh where will half of DU run to if the R's manage to another theocrat in the WH?

((do I really need the sarcasm thingy?)))

[Snarkoleptic]

21. Sounds like poor customer service resulted in tragedy.

..."Mr. Dziekanski stayed in the Arrivals Hall, growing increasingly frustrated and eventually becoming frantic. Outside, in the public area, his mother spent nearly six hours pacing the corridors and, in broken English, asking airport officials for help in locating her son."
I'm not familiar with this airport, but the story sound as though he was free to go, but unable to locate his mother.
If that's the case, I'm stunned that nobody noticed this guy's situation for over 10 hours.
Also, why did none of the airport officials that his mother asked for help bother to do assist her in locating her son?
Really sad situation...

[PDJane]

22. No excuses.

There is no excuse for this behaviour. Period. There are reasons for civilian oversight of the police.

[seabeyond]

23. it is a life. taken. ... no excuses. n/t

[KittyWampus]

43. You are missing the sequence of events. The police were not there watching the guy for 10 hours

and then suddenly tased him after he finally melted down and got violent.

The man should have been attended to 9 hours earlier BEFORE he had a reason to grow violent and the police had to be called to deal with a violent passenger.

[The Wielding Truth]

24. Customer service shouldn't taser a frustrated customer! nt

[KittyWampus]

44. Customer Service didn't tase a frustrated customer. They ignored a passanger for 10 hours.

They then called police when one of their 'customers' freaked out after being made to wait with no help for 10 hours.

The police were put between a rock and a hard place by the airport/immigration staff.

[Horse with no Name]

35. Arrivals Hall.

Waiting on papers to be processed.
You seriously think he was free to go?

[pnorman]

29. Having been "burned" in the past ove alleged atrocities,

I ALWAYS Google before running with such stories. Here's what came up: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071025.wtaser2510/BNStory/National

This is the most OUTRAGEOUS example of what this "free world" is becoming, that I've heard in a long time! Prayer isn't in my vocabulary, but my heart goes out to that grief-stricken mother!

pnorman
My carelessness! I didn't see the link at the bottom of that cited article. Sorry! But I'm still OUTRAGED!!

[aikoaiko]

30. I don't understand the details.

Was he being held, or was he just lost for all that time?

The video will likely clear some of it up -- too bad they are withholding it until the hearing.

[KittyWampus]

42. He was in a secure holding area used for immigrants. And he was there for 10 hours with no help

The airport made no attempts, apparently, to help him or find his mother or notify his mother.

After 10 hours of being in this area, the guy got totally frustrated and started pounding windows and throwing things.

Police were called, they tased him two times, the guy went into cardiac arrest and died.

[bonito]

33. Outrageous

[Greyskye]

36. More details and timeline

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071025/airport_death_071025/20071026?hub=Canada

He had been at the airport for 10 hours before this occurred. :(

[KittyWampus]

46. Here is the timeline starting from the victim's violent outburst after 10 hours of being ignored

By Airport/Immigration staff.

Here is the timeline of events:

1:21 a.m. -- Vancouver International Airport calls the RCMP, reporting a 50-year-old male is throwing suitcases and appears to be intoxicated;
1:26 -- The passenger has now thrown a chair through a window;
1:27 -- Two security guards show up. One minute later, the RCMP arrives;
1:30 - A male has been tasered and is unconscious but breathing. Ambulance is called;
1:31 -- Security guards help restrain the man, who is now described as a suspect;
1:32 -- The log reports that Dziekanski has lost consciousness.
1:36 - A Code 3 is issued to paramedics, indicating someone is unconscious.
1:44 - Paramedics arrive, 12 minutes after Dziekanski, 40, first slipped into unconsciousness.



Sources told CTV B.C. that a Code 3 call should have been issued to paramedics immediately after the individual became unconscious. However, it wasn't until four minutes later that the Code 3 went out.




It also reports that an on-site emergency responder had told the team at the airport to hold off on immediately upgrading the status of the call.




The new information has prompted members of Vancouver's Polish community to call for changes to the way new immigrants are handled at the airport.

[seabeyond]

38. i am not seeing the defense of our police state nor use and deserve

of the taser on this thread that i see on so many other, including the use of taser on child. what the people that so stridently defend the use of taser dont get.... in their blind following of fear is that this very abuse they are unwilling to acknowledge, admit to, or be outraged against is why we so often spoke out on all the other incidents of abuse of taser in the past. we saw how much easier it was to pull the taser and zap in order to have the cops controlled environment that they wanted. with the understanding that select people die from the use of the taser, undeserving. and even when the person did not deserve to be zapped or was just an easy way to resolve issue, that was conditioning us all to the deaths from the taser

here is a man that was murdered and it will stand as acceptable. and the next one and next one and next one will simply have fewer people speak out against it until it becomes common. each person who is unwilling to speak out against this is part of the conditioning as a whole. and what a shame, for who we are as people and the atmosphere we ourselves create to live.

[KittyWampus]

39. The man was pounding windows, throwing chairs & computer equipment.

If not using a taser, then the alternative would be a night stick or choke hold.

"Richmond RCMP Sgt. Pierre Lemaitre, above, said the man was enraged, pounding on windows and throwing chairs and computer equipment, and refused to calm down"

But wouldn't it have been "nice" if someone had helped the victim before 10 hours had elapsed as he waited for his mother in area she had no access to.



One woman called the police “dogs” for the way they dealt with Mr. Dziekanski after the 40-year-old man emerged in violent rage from a secure area at the airport almost 10 hours after his flight had arrived.

Both the Polish consul general and the president of the Canadian Polish Congress urged airport officials to make better services available to newly arrived immigrants and their families.

Many in the crowd, along with Mr. Dziekanski's mother, shared stories of waiting long hours for their loved ones at the airport and not being able to get any information.

A police investigation under way has sealed the lips of airport and border officials.

They refuse to answer questions about how a man could spend upwards of 10 hours in a relatively secure section of the airport without attracting the attention of authorities until minutes before his death.

[seabeyond]

40. 10 hours unwarranted holding. crying shame. who would not be enraged

who would be calmed down. what are we demanding from people? putting them exactly in this situation, to exactly create this behavior and then PUNISH them for doing exactly what we create. what is wrong with you that you would expect anything less from this man?

what is pounding on windows, desks and windows? making a point and putting fist to desk, or computer. standing at window, looking out in frustration fists strike board. not going after any human. and obviously not too out of control since the pounding of "windows" did not result in breaking glass.


i cannot believe that you feel the officer justifying it with pounding.... as ok to kill. what have we become?

[KittyWampus]

41. The Airport should have helped the man 9 hours earlier. That was one of my points

And once someone is that freaked out, police who arrive on the scene have only so many options. That was my other point.

You need to automatically take this incident and condemn the police while not looking at how this happened. What lead to it. How it could have been prevented.

The blame lies with the airport, IMO.

10 freaking hours is plenty of time to have found a translator or attempted some form of communication with the victim.

[seabeyond]

49. the man was going after things, not people... i do blame police

why were the police so willing to take the easy of tasering, than say,.... wait, why is this man so frustrated. hey man, what is up. him saying 10 fuckin hours sittin here, mom waiting and no help... and cops say, NO SHIT. fuckin 10 hours. well shit, lets do something about it.

are you really thinking the only option for the cop is to taser

or was that the most expedient, easiest way for the police to deal with the situation.

the cops have a huge job. i do NOT want them to resolve the easiest way for them, especially when it takes a life.

[seabeyond]

50. i told airline security spring 2002, treat us like animals, that is what we will become

it is a given. and this is where we are today. and the zookeepers treat us with as much compassion. zap us

[redqueen]

45. They need to take those fucking things away from cops...

they feel too free to use them.

24 seconds? Really?

I can't wait for that video to be released.

Bastards.

[bdamomma]

47. oh god, unspeakable force on people has got to stop.