Questions about the House "Thought Crime" bill. . .

[annabanana]

HR 1955, the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007. Was passed, with 404 votes on Oct. 23rd.

It was presented by Jane Harman (D)Ca-36 and co-sponsored by 10 Democrats and 4 Republicans
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-h1955/show

The language is VERY problematic
see this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x317084

My questions are
1) What am I missing here? Why would someone usually as good as Jane Harman put something like this forward?

2) Is there a companion piece in the Senate?

3) Who should I write +/or call?

[Trillo]

1. I don't know, but I'm reminded of the AG nominee

who recently stated that there's nothing wrong with warrantless wiretapping of terrorists.

[papau]

2. At some point folks will read the bill and calm down - it is "research grant" funding to find out

why there may be home grown terrorists via a new department in Homeland Security.

SEC. 899F. PROTECTING CIVIL RIGHTS AND CIVIL LIBERTIES WHILE PREVENTING IDEOLOGICALLY BASED VIOLENCE AND HOMEGROWN TERRORISM.

`(a) In General- The Department of Homeland Security's efforts to prevent ideologically based violence and homegrown terrorism as described herein shall not violate the constitutional rights, civil rights, or civil liberties of United States citizens or lawful permanent residents.

`(b) Commitment to Racial Neutrality- The Secretary shall ensure that the activities and operations of the entities created by this subtitle are in compliance with the Department of Homeland Security's commitment to racial neutrality.

`(c) Auditing Mechanism- The Civil Rights and Civil Liberties Officer of the Department of Homeland Security shall develop and implement an auditing mechanism to ensure that compliance with this subtitle does not violate the constitutional rights, civil rights, or civil liberties of any racial, ethnic, or religious group, and shall include the results of audits under such mechanism in its annual report to Congress required under section 705.'.


NOW DOES THE ABOVE SOUND LIKE A THOUGHT CRIME BILL? AND NOTE THAT THE CIVIL RIGHTS LIMITATIONS ABOVE ARE LIMITATIONS ON ALL HOMELAND SECURITY ACTIVITIES THAT DEAL SOLELY WITH AMERICANS.

As to the body of the bill:

SEC. 899C. NATIONAL COMMISSION ON THE PREVENTION OF VIOLENT RADICALIZATION AND IDEOLOGICALLY BASED VIOLENCE.

`(a) Establishment- There is established within the legislative branch of the Government the National Commission on the Prevention of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism.

`(b) Purpose- The purposes of the Commission are the following:

`(1) Examine and report upon the facts and causes of violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence in the United States, including United States connections to non-United States persons and networks, violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence in prison, individual or `lone wolf' violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence, and other faces of the phenomena of violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence that the Commission considers important.

`(2) Build upon and bring together the work of other entities and avoid unnecessary duplication, by reviewing the findings, conclusions, and recommendations of--

`(A) the Center of Excellence established or designated under section 899D, and other academic work, as appropriate;

`(B) Federal, State, local, or tribal studies of, reviews of, and experiences with violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence; and

`(C) foreign government studies of, reviews of, and experiences with violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence.


NOW THE ABOVE WILL HAVE MEMBERS AND STAFFING, A BUDGET, TRAVEL EXPENSE, AND WILL GET COOPERATION FROM OTHER AGENCIES AND WILL HOLD MEETINGS SO AS TO PRODUCE A REPORT IN 18 MONTHS PER THE REST OF THE SECTION, WITH INTERIM REPORTS IN 6 MONTHS THAT WILL SUGGEST LEGISLATION AND FURTHER GRANTS FOR RESEARCH IF NEEDED, WITH A PUBLIC VERSION OF THE REPORT REQUIRED.


`SEC. 899D. CENTER OF EXCELLENCE FOR THE STUDY OF VIOLENT RADICALIZATION AND HOMEGROWN TERRORISM IN THE UNITED STATES.

`(a) Establishment- The Secretary of Homeland Security shall establish or designate a university-based Center of Excellence for the Study of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism in the United States (hereinafter referred to as `Center') following the merit-review processes and procedures and other limitations that have been previously established for selecting and supporting University Programs Centers of Excellence. The Center shall assist Federal, State, local and tribal homeland security officials through training, education, and research in preventing violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism in the United States. In carrying out this section, the Secretary may choose to either create a new Center designed exclusively for the purpose stated herein or identify and expand an existing Department of Homeland Security Center of Excellence so that a working group is exclusively designated within the existing Center of Excellence to achieve the purpose set forth in subsection (b).

`(b) Purpose- It shall be the purpose of the Center to study the social, criminal, political, psychological, and economic roots of violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism in the United States and methods that can be utilized by Federal, State, local, and tribal homeland security officials to mitigate violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism.

`(c) Activities- In carrying out this section, the Center shall--

`(1) contribute to the establishment of training, written materials, information, analytical assistance and professional resources to aid in combating violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism;

`(2) utilize theories, methods and data from the social and behavioral sciences to better understand the origins, dynamics, and social and psychological aspects of violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism;

`(3) conduct research on the motivational factors that lead to violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism; and

`(4) coordinate with other academic institutions studying the effects of violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism where appropriate.

`SEC. 899E. PREVENTING VIOLENT RADICALIZATION AND HOMEGROWN TERRORISM THROUGH INTERNATIONAL COOPERATIVE EFFORTS.

`(a) International Effort- The Secretary shall, in cooperation with the Department of State, the Attorney General, and other Federal Government entities, as appropriate, conduct a survey of methodologies implemented by foreign nations to prevent violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism in their respective nations.

`(b) Implementation- To the extent that methodologies are permissible under the Constitution, the Secretary shall use the results of the survey as an aid in developing, in consultation with the Attorney General, a national policy in the United States on addressing radicalization and homegrown terrorism.

`(c) Reports to Congress- The Secretary shall submit a report to Congress that provides--

`(1) a brief description of the foreign partners participating in the survey; and

`(2) a description of lessons learned from the results of the survey and recommendations implemented through this international outreach.

NOW WHERE IS THE THOUGHT CRIME PART OF THIS BILL?

[Trillo]

5. Just some thoughts about the THOUGHT part of THOUGHT CRIME

Universities will have likely have an analysis bias for reporting on others. For example, they likely will have cognitive dissonance or denial (negative bias) for any negative ideologies created by those who with "high" education versus "low" education, and a positive bias for the religious inculcation of violence against particular religions that teach violent self-defense and guerilla warfare-type tactics against invaders, or just a generalized contempt or bias against religions, especially foreign ones.

Undoubtedly one definition where the THOUGHT part of THOUGHT CRIME comes from: the word "ideology."

Further, the bill claims to restrict against civil rights violations with respect toward U.S.citizens and legal residents, but not legal travelers; as well not granting the same protections against foreign citizens: this is contrasted against international language at the bottom which seeks cooperation with foreign nations. We can conclude that our rulers wish to cooperate with our own citizens only to the extent the constitution limits them, presumably no further; and cooperate with other nations' rulers who by nature of their own hierarchy are accorded a high level of diplomatic respect; but by omitting other nations citizens, the bill's true nature is revealed.

One clause that would perhaps nullify this concern of mine would be to add to the civil rights protection clause something like: and ... "citizens and lawful residents of other nations, as well as to people who are legally visiting our nation and engaging in legal activities."

Because we are unwilling to grant civil rights protections to foreign citizens, and the fact that international cooperation clause exists in the bill, it becomes apparent that we won't have civil rights protections from foreign nations studying us in their own programs.

Ignore globalism with peril when nationalist protections are invoked. There's an old human saying that is perhaps appropriate: "treat others as you would have others treat you," or something similar to it, the Golden Rule. This bill fails that smell test.

I also think it's reasonable to use the word CRIME in the way the OP has used it, a dystopian reference. Additionally, when elites study anything, it is with the intent of taking unfair advantage of lessor citizens, and as such things seem to go in my experience, perhaps new U.S. CRIMES will be part of the compiled report's findings and recommendations or part of the "policy" implementations.

One policy recommendation I can predict is that more "education" will be recommended above what people currently have.

Nobody likes to be watched or studied or analyzed, unless they volunteer. That alone may represent a kind of intellectual theft, especially if profitable "products" or "services" are derived therefrom.

[papau]

6. If no one is to be studied or analyzed, universities around the world become much smaller -

As to civil rights protection for non-citizens, the courts have ruled that that is not required under our Constitution unless covered by Treaty. A law like this, like all laws, is subordinate to any Treaties our government has signed.

As to university bias against suicide bombers claiming ethical reasons, that may well be true - but that is a thought crime that we have today without this bill - this bill does not add to that problem, if there is a problem.

A report in 6 months, and another in 18 months, does not appear to me, at least, as an assault on the right to have thoughts that differ from what others may be thinking - even if the others are given the platform of this report. I suspect that that 19 months after passage, "thought" will be no closer to being a crime than it is now.

Meanwhile Verified Voting, the folks that got DUers to cut their own throats by killing the Holt audit of elections bill, now have a police complaint filed about their meeting in MN and the hotel not allowing a paid guest to be in a public area discussing stolen elections - because they are now selling that there was no stolen election.

Now there is an interesting "thought crime" - and the making of DUers into fools that killed election auditing in 08 might be considered a masterful bit of thought control.

[Kagemusha]

3. If it's a thought crime bill, where's the punishment for the crime part?

I looked over that other thread. Yeah, for the purposes of granting money to study the issue, it defines violent radicalization in terms of the spread of violent ideology. That does not make it a crime. That does not make it illegal. There is no statute here saying, those found guilty of this crime will be sentenced to a maximum of 5 years in jail or a $250,000 fine, or anything like that, which I saw on the other thread.

What are you missing here? The CRIME part of "thought crime".

There's also language that prohibits the bill from being interpreted in any way that would violate rights under the Constitution, such as, oh, I don't know... the 1st Amendment, perhaps?

[HereSince1628]

4. Don't be naive, this is a chute legislation, an ENABLING ACT, down the slippery slope

The expectation that definitions and recommendations for implementation (properly read as Homeland Security Agency regulatory edicts on bad ideology=thought) comes in about here:

"(2) a description of lessons learned from the results of the survey and recommendations implemented through this international outreach."

Implementation of recommendations certainly sounds like it expects that this "Center" against (Commander in Chief defined) ideologies that could provoke "violence" to produce implementable (i.e. Actionable, as in put people in jail) recommendations.

Are we to believe that the Congress is hopelessly naive or simply toeing the Cheney administration's line?

Either way we are more or less deflowered against our will without even being kissed.