Regarding TSA's new proposal requiring 72-hr gov't permission for Americans to fly domestically:

[seafan]

Restricting Americans' freedom to fly domestically is a prelude to tyranny.


Paul Craig Roberts, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under Reagan is sounding the alarm.


October 25, 2007

.....

Now the Bush administration wants to take away the American people's freedom to travel within their own country by airplane. Not content with an 80,000 "no fly" list, a subset of a 500,000-750,000 "watch list," the Bush administration's Transport Security Administration has proposed new rules that will require Americans to get government permission 72 hours in advance prior to being allowed to board a domestic flight.

The TSA justifies this extraordinary violation of our constitutional rights on the grounds that 90 to 93 percent of all travel reservations are final by then.

So what?!

And what of the 7 to 10 percent of flights that the TSA estimates are not on the books 72 hours in advance? These are family emergencies and critical business deals. What does the TSA care if a member of your family dies while you await the government's permission to fly?

Any agency of the government that can propose such a tyrannical regulation should be abolished. The TSA's mentality shows it to be a far greater threat to Americans than are terrorists.

Even without the "permission to fly" rule, the TSA's practices are ridiculous and unjustified. The confiscation of tooth paste and unopened bottles of perfume, the harassment of US military officers in uniform, the harassment of old people struggling with their walkers, of mothers struggling with small children--none of this makes any sense except in terms of getting Americans accustomed to harassment as a citizen's duty to government and to train a cadre to conduct warrantless searches of fellow citizens.

The no-fly list itself is absurd. If a known terrorist were to show up at an airport, he would be arrested, not refused permission to fly. Anyone else who can clear security like other passengers has every right to fly.

Set aside the violation of the Constitution and the Soviet-style tyranny of the loss of the freedom to travel and consider merely the practical aspect of the proposal. What American wants his travel plans dependent on a government bureaucracy capable of putting US Senator Ted Kennedy on the "no fly" list and capable of issuing US visas to two of the alleged 9/11 hijackers six months after they allegedly died in the 9/11 events?

If we believe the official story, 9/11 itself reveals a government totally devoid of any competence whatsoever.

The "war on terror" is fraudulent. The cruel war and the deceptive vocabulary that protects it are a cover for expanding US and Israeli hegemony in the MIddle East and for constructing a functioning police state at home. A country in which people cannot make airline reservations without the government's permission is not a free country.

Is it time?

[Dora]

1. Yes, it is time.

It has been the time and will continue to be the time. But, in answer to your question, yes, the time is now.


I'm in favor of this, personally. http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/10/0081720

General strike, November 6.

[bdamomma]

4. it has been way past the time.

[Hobarticus]

19. The time is well fucking nigh...eom

[Supersedeas]

48. aye, well nigh

[shain from kane]

2. Is this one of those powers that HRC promises to roll back? n/t

[Vincardog]

24. HRC said she would CONSIDER which powers she MIGHT give up. WRONG ANSWER

[Hubert Flottz]

3. The Nazis are

HERE...in the good ole USE...hell...they've been running the place since 2000!

[endarkenment]

6. Actually since the inhoguration of Nixon in '69.

With a brief respite in the Carter and Clinton administrations.

[blogslut]

5. Jesus

That's nuts!

How does the TSA plan to implement this government permission thing?

[IDemo]

7. Nobody cares about this issue here

Trust me.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2127701&mesg_id=2127701

[KoKo]

8. I've seen posts about this....but didn't click because I thought it was ridiculous...

that it was some insane thing by the Bushies that would never go anywhere because it's so OTT that folks would laugh.. I never clicked past the subject line..until this post of Paul Craig Roberts where I figured maybe I'd better take a look.

If Pelosi and Reid allow this...then it's definitely time for some of us to try to find a place outside of here to start a new life...because it's INSANE!

[TechBear_Seattle]

10. It not that no one cares. It's that our "leaders" in Congress make any plan by the Junta a done deal

Why bother getting worked up about something that Congress will refuse to challenge? What is the point of yet again shouting ourselves hoarse demanding action from people who are totally deaf to our cries?

[IDemo]

15. If it's possible to out-do warrantless wiretaps in the Brownshirtting of America

Then this is the issue it's occurring in. If our representatives and candidates do nothing more than offer a shrug and a resigned smile on this, it's time to either march on DC with torches and pitchforks or plan on swimming for escape (since flying is out).

[Joanne98]

16. I do. I posted it yesterday. Sorry I didn't see your thread. I would have rec.

[TechBear_Seattle]

9. Watch for Congress to...

Wring its collective hands, issue a lukewarm statement, then cave completely.

I am willing to be a week's salary.

[NeedleCast]

11. This Would Have a Crushing Effect on Business Travel

Which makes me wonder if it'll really happen or not. As a frequent business travel who's been at it for a few years now, I think at least 30% of my flights have been booked within 48 hours of me getting on a plane...and I'm one person on a small training team. I don't think there's any way to implement this without a huge up-roar.

[dragonlady]

14. Another reason for unplanned travel

When there is a death in a Jewish family, the funeral is typically held the next day. It may be the same for Muslim families (there are a number of similarities in the two traditions). Besides the general insanity of this proposal, it would cause great upset at a time of grief for many people.

[kestrel91316]

21. You think they give a damn? We're talking about fighting TERRA here.

We need to make some serious sacrifices. If it inconveniences Muslims, more's the better.

The Jews don't matter, they're all a bunch of damned Hollywood liebruls anyway.

[kestrel91316]

20. You DO realize, of course, that they will find a way to make exceptions

for corporate bigwigs and conservatives of all stripes? The plan is only to restrict travel by those who are NOT wealthy and powerful.

[Yael]

45. That is already in the proposal

Thousands Standing Around is adding a provision for people who want to go through background checks to be preapproved and therefor not subject to the new rules.

[Hydra]

12. This is the logical extention of everything they've been doing

Why is everyone so surprised when they do what's predictable for evil bastards such as themselves?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

13. SHUT THESE FUCKERS DOWN

Fire everyone from Kip Hawley down to the illiterate retards who can't match the name on my boarding pass to the name on my passport if an airline either uses my first initial or last name first! Full criminal investigations for all screeners and a searching of their homes for stolen property.

9/11 was not caused by box cutters getting through security, 9/11 was caused because the airline policy on dealing with hijackers was to cooperate and fly to Cuba.

Does not being a paranoid coward make me a bad American?

I am more likely to be killed driving on the 405 than I am to be killed in any terrorist act.

[Warpy]

17. Prelude? It IS tyranny!!!!!

We're already confronted with demands for picture identification when we fly. That 72 hour formal permission thing is a CROCK.

Everything that agency has done to make flying anywhere as humiliating an experience as possible has been done to control us, to keep us in our places, to make sure we are convenient to nab when the time comes.

These men are EVIL.

[seafan]

22. This is just more insidious *conditioning* for us to comply with these invasions of our rights.

It is incremental and forces us deeper into the abyss.


I really hope we live long enough to see all of these monsters meet justice.


Only then can good, progressive people of this world rebuild our future.

[kestrel91316]

18. This is fine with me. Why should I care? I do not now, nor do I expect

in the future to have need to fly anywhere on 72 hours' notice.

Maybe I'll let the Republicans worry about this. I bet it will have an impact on their constituency. They made this bed. Now they can lie in it.

[SidDithers]

23. Is there a source for this other than an editorial in counterpunch?...nt

Sid

[IDemo]

25. Straight from the horse's mouth ->

http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/layers/secureflight/index.shtm

[Stephanie]

27. .

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is taking significant steps toward implementing a key 9/11 Commission recommendation - uniform watch list matching by TSA - also known as Secure Flight.

The program is designed to conduct uniform prescreening of passenger information against federal government watch lists for domestic and international flights. Currently, air carriers are responsible for checking passengers against government watch lists.

Under Secure Flight, TSA will receive information for each passenger. TSA will then determine any matches of information with government watch lists and transmit matching results back to aircraft operators. To this end, the TSA has issued the Secure Flight Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) (3.7Mb, pdf), which lays out the Department of Homeland Security's plans to assume watch list matching.

Secure Flight will match limited passenger information against government watch lists to identify known and suspected terrorists, prevent known and suspected terrorists from boarding an aircraft, facilitate legitimate passenger air travel, and protect individuals' privacy. Secure Flight will:

Identify known and suspected terrorists;
Prevent individuals on the No Fly List from boarding an aircraft;
Identify individuals on the Selectee List for enhanced screening,
Facilitate passenger air travel by providing fair, equitable and consistent matching process across all aircraft operators; and
Protect individuals' privacy
The NPRM initiates a public comment period that will enable the traveling public to voice comments and concerns. Initial implementation of Secure Flight is expected to occur in late 2008.

DHS is also publishing the Advance Passenger Information System (APIS) Pre-Departure Final Rule, which enables DHS to collect manifest information for international flights departing from or arriving in the United States prior to boarding. Together with Secure Flight, these measures will strengthen aviation security through uniform and consistent passenger pre-screening against government watch lists. CBP and TSA will combine the Advance Passenger Information System (APIS) and Secure Flight concepts and systems to provide "One DHS Solution" to the commercial aviation industry and the traveling public.

Current watch list process requires multiple airlines to check passenger data
Currently, aircraft operators match passenger reservation data against a watch list provided by TSA so individuals known to pose a threat to aviation are not allowed to fly – period. Through the Secure Flight program, TSA will assume responsibility for this function from aircraft operators.

By moving watch list matching responsibilities away from the airlines and centralizing it in-house, TSA will ensure a higher level of consistency and will help remedy possible misidentifications if a traveler's name is similar to one found on a watch list. It is to the passenger's advantage to provide the requested data elements (listed below) as doing so may prevent delays or inconveniences at the airport. This is particularly important for those individuals who have similar names to those on the watch lists or passengers with common names. Failure to provide the additional data elements may result in inconvenience.

TSA is requesting comment on the data elements through the rulemaking process to determine whether date of birth and gender should be mandatory data elements, and will consider all comments received. TSA will not collect or use commercial data to conduct Secure Flight watch list matching.
Additionally, bringing watch list matching into the government will provide consistent application of an expedited and integrated redress process for passengers that believe they have been misidentified as a threat. Click here for more information about DHS Traveler Redress Inquiry Program (TRIP) to provide a one-stop shop for passengers seeking redress.

Ensuring the privacy of individuals is a cornerstone of Secure Flight. TSA has developed a comprehensive privacy plan to incorporate privacy laws and practices into all areas of Secure Flight. The program has worked extensively to maximize individual privacy.

TSA will collect the minimum amount of personal information necessary to conduct effective watch list matching. TSA is issuing a Privacy Impact Assessment (PIA) and System of Records Notice (SORN) to provide detailed information about the program's privacy approach in conjunction with its NPRM.

The only required data elements will be name and itinerary. All other personal data will be completely voluntary.

[SidDithers]

44. Thanks...nt

Sid

[seafan]

34. Here's more:

The upcoming Dept of Homeland Security "Secure Flight" program. Hello to personal travel tracking., September 26, 2007

[Stephanie]

26. When I saw this the other day I didn't believe it could be true!

This is unbelievable!

[KansDem]

28. I take off from KCI to LAX on Monday. Do I have to get permission first?

How do I get this "permission?"

By my account, "72 hours" means...3 days! That's tomorrow!!!

[IDemo]

29. No, the program is not in effect yet.

[KansDem]

32. *whew* That's a load off my mind!

Thanks! :hi:

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

30. Way past fucking time N/T

[WinkyDink]

38. And that would be why? Do you think the theretofore law-abiding Mohammed Atta would be stopped?

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

40. Get back to me when you're making sense.

I'm in agreement with the OP. I live outside the US and am married to a non US citizen. Filling out the fucking paperwork to get home and having my spouse finger printed and humiliated just to get the privilege to come to the US sickens and embarrasses me. I can only imagine having to jump through the check list hoops trying to fly from Texas to Maine.

[ieoeja]

31. This is to terrorism what road blocks are to drunk drivers.

If in 1980 I had told people Uncle Ronnie would put allow the use of road blocks to check everyone on the road for drunk driving, they would have said, "it could never happen here."

If in 1980 I had told people Uncle Ronnie would soon allow the police to break into houses without even knocking first, they would have said, "it could never happen here."

I wonder how long this list can get...?

[MadHound]

33. And of course this isn't being touched by the MSM

Instead, it is going to be eased on through during the middle of the night and the American public will wake up and find itself facing fascism. Perhaps the outrage over this will be enough to wake people up, let's hope so.

[WritersBlock]

35. You can still make reservations on short notice.

From the NPRM itself, page 27:

"Additionally, for reservations made within 72 hours of scheduled flight departure time, covered aircraft operators would be required to transmit Secure Flight Passenger Data as soon as possible."

They just want everything the airlines have at the 72-hour point so they can start processing at least that much info - sort of like getting a head start.

Or at least that's the way I read it.

The major change, from what I can gather, is that instead of the airlines checking the Federal No Fly & Selectee Lists, now TSA will be doing it.

"The Intelligence Reform & Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 (IRTPA) requires TSA to assume from air carriers the comparison of passenger information to the automatic Selectee and No Fly Lists and to utilize all appropriate records in the consolidated and integrated watch list that the federal government maintains. The final report of the National Commission on Terrorist Acts Upon the United States (9/11 Commission Report) recommends that the watch list matching function "should be performed by TSA and it should utilize the larger set of watch lists maintained by the Federal Government."

<snip>

"For example, TSA may learn that flights on a particular route may be subject to increased security risk. If this happens, TSA may decide to compare passenger information on some or all of the flights on that route against the full TSDB (whatever the hell that is) or other government databases, such as intelligence or law enforcement databases."

I'm not sure what pisses me off more... that they're going to be checking against more databases, or that they haven't been doing so all along, if that makes any sense.

[WinkyDink]

39. Well, then the "bad guys who want to kill your children, David Gregory," will simply wait!

[Johonny]

36. I can see it now

Airline: "sorry you've been bumped from your scheduled flight, but we have another plane leaving for your destination in 3 hours. Unfortunately it is require for you to notify us 72 hours in advance to allow you on that new flight. You should a told us in advance you were getting bumped."

Passenger: "So I can at least fly home in 3 days right?"

Airline: "Oh no sorry you need government approval 72 hours in advance, but do to the unexpected volume of people seeking permission to fly and the severely understaffed government agency responsible for approval, it will take 6 months for the agency to approve your new flight. But rest assured 72 hours after we hear you have been approved we will get you on a plane to your final destination."

Passenger: "Will that flight be criminally over sold to?"

Airline: "Err"

Passenger: "Where's the nearest train station?"

[file83]

42. Exactly. This has got to be the STUPIDEST fucking idea I've ever heard.

That is, if their goal was freedom. However, it's a brilliant idea if they are trying to fuck our country up.

[WinkyDink]

37. And the very wealthy will take private jets, unfettered, unexamined, unverified.

THAT is the other side of this control-the-masses coin.

[Stephanie]

52. No, they'll get special passes.

It's already started. They can get special VIP passes after a screening. For the frequent business traveler, of course.

[NMMNG]

41. Complete and utter bullshit

If feasible, a boycott on air travel would shut this asinine idea down quickly.

[barbtries]

43. is that for real?!

government permission to fly?! ohgawd that scares the shit outta me

[DinahMoeHum]

46. Bush/Cheney: Standing on a cement block to kick a duck in the ass

once more.

[smoogatz]

47. Great post. Great essay by Mr. Roberts.

I feel it every time I fly: TSA is, indeed, the leading edge of the creeping police-state. Get in line, shut up, take your shoes off, do whatever we tell you or you're going to jail. Millions of American citizens treated like criminals for comitting the crime of air travel.

[rodeodance]

what can be done?

[rodeodance]

49. what can be done?

[ideagarden]

50. do not support the airlines period

Do not buy another airline ticket period. Fuck them and their fascism.

[seafan]

51. And before boarding, we will also be subjected to Chertoff's X-ray strip searches.

TSA Promises Privacy For Subjects Of Clothing-Penetrating Scans, October 11, 2007


Airport Screeners Could Get X-Rated X-Ray Views, May 24, 2005



Now is the time to take a stand against these civil and personal invasions. Our country is losing its identity under these thugs running amok in our government.