Do the Great Lakes water resources belong to all Americans?

[Earth_First]

Or do they belong to the residents of the Great Lakes basin?

On edit: spelling

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Wouldn't they belong to Canadians too?

Or, for that matter, given it's 20% of the world's fresh water supply, everybody?

[Earth_First]

2. This is correct

In fact according to the Water Resources Development Act of 1962 and the Water Boundary treaty of 1909; they DO!

[LakeSamish706]

3. Yep I agree with you... Canada certainly owns some of the Great Lakes... n/t

[madrchsod]

5. yes they belong to the canadians

and no it`s not for sale

[Junkdrawer]

13. "Ontario says no to Great Lakes water plan"

Ontario will not ratify an international agreement governing how much water can be diverted from the Great Lakes unless better protections are put in place, the province's Natural Resources minister said Monday.
David Ramsay said the province is not prepared to ratify the agreement in its current form, in part because the protections it contains are not as strong as Ontario's laws, which prohibit water transfers out of the province's three major water basins.

"Ontarians, and the McGuinty government, clearly want a 'no diversions' agreement or the position of 'no net loss'," Ramsay said in a statement.

The proposed pact between Ontario, Quebec and eight U.S. states would allow American jurisdictions to use water from the five Great Lakes as long as it's cleaned and returned to the system.

It would also prevent any large-scale movement of water out of the lakes by requiring the unanimous consent of all the states and provinces.

....


http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2004/11/15/lakes041115.html

[AngryAmish]

85. ahem.....manifest destiny....

It is ours. Wanna fight, Canada?

[Pathwalker]

95. So, screw Canada, eh? Screw INTERNATIONAL treaties, eh?

According to the International Great Lakes Water Treaty of 1909, the Great Lakes water belongs to Canada too. I realize that now that America is a Rogue Nation, the LAW is slaw, and International Treaties are nothing more than G** D*** pieces of paper, but you may well get that Civil War you so seem to want, because I can assure you, none of the Great Lakes States, nor Canada will allow the other states a DROP of OUR water without either massive gun battles or a lengthy court fight, or BOTH. So, go ahead and waste your state's money in a massive international court fight, if you wish. It's your money, but it's still our water. You might as well say that the Atlantic & Pacific oceans belong to America too.

[AngryAmish]

96. ahem...it was a joke...

I think someone needs a hug.

[Pathwalker]

99. Yep, I sure do. Sorry, but all the nastiness of the fire threads

made me cry - people are losing everything. First new Orleans, and now this. I wish there was a way to take the rain that's flooding New Orleans - AGAIN - and give it to California. And The Great Lakes are actually disappearing, so there's zero chance it will even be around eventually. All the destruction is getting to me.
I'm Sorry. :cry:

[AngryAmish]

102. If it is any consolation

The Great Lakes are extremely large. I live next to Lake Michigan and from the naked eye it seems to be down about 4 feet. Significant, yes. But considering that the lake is almost 280 feet deep on average it means we are ok for a long, long time. And in the 80s the concern is that Lake Michigan was rising too fast. I remember that one too.

Lake Michigan is only about 10,000 years old. It will go away. Nothing is permanent on this earth. And geologically Lake Michigan is a baby.

Don't cry. have a hug!

[TahitiNut]

106. Except for Lake Michigan (entirely within the U.S.), yep.

:shrug:

[Zookeeper]

114. Although Lake Michigan is connected to Lake Huron....

so, Canada might have some opinions about whatever the the rest of the U.S. wants to do to it.

[TahitiNut]

115. ALL the worlds bodies of water are connected. Red herring.

To the degree that we pollute ANYTHING on our planet, we pollute the whole planet. Human beings seem far more willing to EXPLOIT resources than protect those resources. As the people of this nation abandon the "rust belt" but continue to covet some of the positive aspects of the Great Lakes region, I see nothing but self-service. I've lived in drought areas and adapted my use of water accordingly. Even as a resident (again) of the Great Lakes region living on top of one of the world's largest fresh water aquifers, I practice water conservation. I do this, not because I want to think myself "better" or due some "attaboy" ... but because I have an ethical obligation to act in a manner that I'd want everyone to act. I commend that same ethic to others. Just do it.

When living in the desert, act like a cactus - preserve water.

[Zookeeper]

116. We're on the same side, TahitiNut...

My point was to discourage anyone from thinking that because Lake Michigan is within the U.S., it's game.

I'm a native and current resident of this region, but I've lived in the West. Even though I live in a state with a supposed abundance of water, I collect rainwater for my garden. I use water from my dehumidifier/AC to flush toilets or water plants. So, I'm always shocked when I visit desert areas and still see lawns and golf courses.

Maybe NM should give me some of the oil they use to support their economy so I can keep my heat turned up to 85 all winter.

[truebrit71]

120. Not true. There is NOTHING connected to my bath tub...

....:evilgrin:

[The Wielding Truth]

4. Wow, what a frightening question !

Fresh water is something that we may have to ration. It makes Bush's purchase in Paraguay even more obvious.:wow:

[BadgerKid]

16. Researchers are working on filtering systems

The 2003 Desalination and Water Purification Technology Roadmap identifies areas of research necessary to develop cost-effective technological ‘tools’ that can be used to help solve the nation’s water supply challenges.

The Roadmap Executive Committee recognizes that there is no “silver bullet” solution to our nation”s water supply challenges. The original series of roadmap workshops were held in 2002 to frame a roadmap that would provide a process for the future. The goal of the process is to:

* Develop a consensus and direction to guide investments for the creation of new water purification technologies;
* Identify the roles that various sectors of the economy can play in the creation of new water purification technologies; and
* Develop an expert group to review alternative water purification technologies.



http://www.sandia.gov/water/desal/tech-road/index.html

[stirlingsliver]

6. The Water Resources of the Great Lakes Belong To All

The water in the Great Lakes does not belong to Americans.

Nor does it belong to Canadians.

It belongs to the world.

It should not be polluted, since the water of the Great Lakes flows over Niagara Falls, and up the St. Lawrence River, and then into the Atlantic Ocean.

The water in the Great Lakes is a world resource.

[LakeSamish706]

8. Nope, wrong... Although you are correct in that the water that flows into...

the ocean belongs to the world. The actual water with-in the Great lakes would be divided between Canada and the US until it flows into the ocean.

[stirlingsliver]

15. If The Canadians Or The USA-ians Pollute The Waters of The Great Lakes...

If the USA or Canada pollute the waters of the Great Lakes, aren't they really polluting water that will ultimately flow into the ocean?

Even if the water in the Great Lakes is divided between Canada and the USA, those countries are really more "stewards" of the water than its "owners".

And, as such, they really hold the water "in trust" for the rest of the world.

[LakeSamish706]

19. I will agree with you on that point.. and probably with that scenerio.... Canada...

would no doubt be more responsible for pollution than would the US since our waterways flow into the Great Lakes...

[OhioBlue]

91. Our waterways also flow into the Great Lakes

At least I know for sure that north of the Continental Divide, our rivers and streams flow into Lake Erie. That is why people south of the Continental Divide cannot get water from Lake Erie. Example: Local High School - built just south of the divide had to contract with nearby City to run water out from Municipal well water supply b/c they could not connect.

[MichiganVote]

21. Treaty. Lake water is owned by boardering states and Canada.

[TahitiNut]

108. So, then you'd agree that the oil resources of Iraq and Iran also belong to "All"???

:eyes: That's a strange posture for someone on DU.

[stirlingsliver]

118. I Would?

Whatever makes you think that I would agree with such a ridiculous statement as "the oil resources of Iraq and Iran belong to 'all'"??

I thought my post was pretty clear about how the water from the Great Lakes ultimately flows into the oceans -- even if humans do nothing.

The oil in Iraq and Iran will not "flow" anywhere unless humans do something.

I trust that you see the difference here.

[The Straight Story]

7. Do the redwoods belong to people in Ohio

:)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Well... yes.

This land is your land
This land is my land
From California to the New York Island
From the Redwood Forest to the Gulf Stream waters
This land was made for you and me

[The Straight Story]

11. Well dammnit then, why did I have to come here to see them???

Why weren't they piped in to Ohio :)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. Because that would destroy it.

Would piping water to NM have a serious environmental impact?

[The Straight Story]

20. Probably on the lakes they were taking the water from

Unless the rain gods brought enough to compensate for it. Maybe a rain dance would help to replenish the lakes as they are sucked dry, I dunno. Will have to check with my local shaman first, if he has not been paid to fly to NM that is :)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. The great lakes get sucked dry by the St. Lawrence River every second.

Hundreds of millions of gallons. Not to mention evaporation.

So is the proposed NM pipeline comparable to water loss via drainage and evaporation?

[The Straight Story]

28. So it would have zero impact like a new wal mart on the environment?

:)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

30. I don't know.

Having not seen an environmental impact report, I couldn't decide either way.

[The Straight Story]

34. My guess is:

If there is something being drained every day any way, and then you drain even more, it means there is less at the source (or if you take it from where the source drains, there is less somewhere else along the ecosystem).

You have a hundred gallons of water and are losing 40 a day, and someone wants to take 30 more I say that is a loss at the source and has an impact, especially if the source is not replenishing as fast as it is draining.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

38. My guess is...

Since the Great Lakes has 20% of the world's fresh water supply, and NM needs considerable less than 20% of the world's fresh water supply, orders of magnitude less, and orders of magnitude less than is lost due to natural means, then it would be insignificant.

So if you have a hundred liters of water, and are losing one liter per year, and recieving one liter per year due to rainfall, and you take out one picoliter, then you've still got a hundred liters of water.

[dysfunctional press]

66. but if they give it to new mexico, they have to give it to everyone else too...

and pretty soon the people down south will have sucked OUR reservoirs dry too.

simplest solution- if people want to share in great lakes water, all they have to do is move here.

[CitizenLeft]

103. well, hey now...

Firstly, there are corporations that have moved out of Ohio, taking thousands of jobs with them, to warmer climates where the cost of living is lower and the living is easier. And then there are people who have moved there - wealthy people, or least people able to make the move - to escape the "harsh" Ohio winters. So now... they want to take the water too?

Hmmm.

(in other words... yeah... what you said)

If Ohioans - not to mention Michiganians - had not suffered so greatly economically, there would not be an issue.

Let's make a trade: you bring the JOBS BACK in exchange for water. How's that?

[LakeSamish706]

23. lol... Now thats a good one for the nite... I love it... n/t

[itsrobert]

14. Only if they are in a Natl Forest and/or Natl Park and/or Federal Land

It's that simple.

[The Straight Story]

26. So if they are federal they belong to all people to harvest and use as needed for TP?

Now I have to decide - red or blue charmin.... :rofl:

[rucky]

59. We'd just use them for Cornhole.

[JVS]

69. I was expecting a different image

[rucky]

71. Ohio cows lie. n/t

[Kolesar]

76. That's a great picture! ... eom

[OhioBlue]

93. lol

:rofl:

[Freddie Stubbs]

128. Yes, but the people in Ohio aren't allowed to cut them down and bring them to Ohio

[lonestarnot]

10. Depends.

[stirlingsliver]

22. Depends?

I certainly hope no one is dumping Depends into the waters of the Great Lakes!

;-)

[lonestarnot]

40. Yes.

Depends all around. :silly:

[mondo joe]

12. Just like the oil that belongs to the Alaskans and the citrus that belongs to the Californians.

[Maq]

18. voted Other Most of the water belongs to CANADA

Most of this water belongs to CANADA...........

[LakeSamish706]

32. Ok, but all of Canada's water from tributaries flows into an ocean or sea...

So what good is claiming it if it is wasted anyway? We should probably be bottling it before it reaches the ocean and becomes unusable.

[peace13]

49. Please get a map out and look at it.

The Canadian /US boundaries are marked really clearly pretty much down the middle of Lake Erie and Lake Huron, Lake Ontario and I am guessing the rest of them. Good grief.

[dysfunctional press]

67. Most? how so?

canada doesn't even border on lake michigan.

[Maq]

124. here is more to a lake than a body of water.

Think Watershed.

[achtung_circus]

25. The Great Lakes

belong to the people of the earth. Some may be used by Americans within the watershed, some may be used by Canadians within the watershed, but our long term responsibility is to maintain the health of the watershed.

I look at the Colorado River, siphoned off to feed voracious appetites of people who have chosen to live in a desert and damn the consequences. The river often doesn't reach the Gulf of California any more. The Oglala aquifer is approaching depletion, fossil water stored for thousands of years pumped out to grow crops. The Sea of Aral is nearly gone, pumped to irrigate cotton where no cotton should grow.

We need to do better by the Great Lakes.

[OzarkDem]

33. Why deplete another great national resource

just to provide water to people who choose to live in the desert? Why drain the lakes so people in Las Vegas can grow grass? That's just silly.

[liberal N proud]

27. Let's see, Canada and the United States share the waters

Does that not mean they have been entrusted to the wellbeing of the ecosystem which comprise the Great Lakes including the watershed?
It would be a little difficult for Mexico or Brazil to lay claim the the resources within the ecosystem called the Great Lakes

[OzarkDem]

29. If you want the water, move here and enjoy it

Nice area around the Great Lakes. All four seasons, low cost of living, very affordable housing (no boom & bust cycle). Good universities and health care.

The only reason the area is hurting is because the jobs have been shipped overseas.

That and people like to live down south where its warm all year long - well that's the tradeoff.

[AZ Criminal JD]

43. If you want jobs, come here and enjoy it

If opinions represented by these posts really represented Democrats Franklin Roosevelt would be turning in his grave.

[OzarkDem]

98. We have jobs, thanks!

We have jobs, water, and all the natural resources we need. There's no need to move south.

[Faygo Kid]

31. Excuse me? From Michigan. You are welcome to move there, but keep your hands off the water.

No kidding. Bottom line: Midwesterners aren't likely to take kindly to diverting Great Lakes water to those who choose to live in Las Vegas. Enjoy Wayne Newton, and keep your hands off our water, which is already at historic lows.

You can disagree, but you aren't going to take the water without a fight. Maybe you might consider living somewhere that isn't a desert, and Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio, New York, Illinois, Wisconsin and Indiana would be happy to welcome you with open arms.

[OzarkDem]

37. Agree, people are very friendly here

They'll welcome folks from the desert states w/ open arms.

[SlowDownFast]

44. As long as they leave Wayne Newton behind. n/t

[OzarkDem]

58. Agree, that's a deal breaker n/t

[knitter4democracy]

86. Amen to all of that!!!

Our lakes are already in distress and at very, very low levels, some of the lowest ever seen. Most of the shipping traffic this summer had to be cancelled--the ships couldn't ride that low in the water, and some ships just plain couldn't get through some areas.

Move here! Michigan's still a great place to live, one of the most beautiful on Earth.

[CitizenLeft]

104. amen.

And hallelujah.

[Zookeeper]

110. Actually, I would prefer that Southwesterners concentrate...

on conservation and desalination plants. I don't like crowds.

Psst. Minnesota is a horrible place to live. We have ice AND mosquitoes year-round. You wouldn't want to move here. :+

[cherokeeprogressive]

35. Why wouldn't they belong to all the citizens of the WORLD? n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

36. Southern and Western states in drought

Hmmm. Now the sudden realization that "we're all in this together."

Ayup...

[Fearless]

39. You can't like 'own' a Great Lake mann!

[Kingshakabobo]

42. Sure, but you can own the land around it and control access.

Let the other states keep all the water they can wring out of their swimsuits.:rofl:

[Fearless]

45. Agreed...

And there we have it, after months and months of hard deliberation, the lakes must stay where they are, yet they can take a token with them for the road home, wet clothes and soon to be wet car seats.

:woohoo:

[scarletwoman]

41. People need to understand that the water in the Great Lakes is NOT a renewable resouce.

Only about 2% of the water in the Great Lakes comes from annual rainfall and snowmelt, all the rest of the water is what's leftover from the melting of the glaciers after the last Ice Age.

If water is diverted from the Great Lakes IT WILL NOT BE REPLENSHED.

As a born and bred Minnesotan all I can say is, keep your hands off our water! It's not OUR responsibility that people in other areas of the country are living beyond their ecological means.

sw

[AZ Criminal JD]

46. Stay out of the South and West

National Parks, beaches, jobs are our resources and we don't want you polluting our states by coming to visit. Stay out!

[scarletwoman]

50. Sorry, but that's an idiotic analogy. I'm not trying to steal your Redwoods or your Saguaro Cactus.

I'm living within my ecological means right where I am. I'm not watering lawns in a desert. If people are so ignorant as to insist on having green lawns in a desert, it's not my responsibility to rescue them from their irresponsibility.

I'm willing to live with snow and below-zero winters, with mosquitos and woodticks, with tornadoes and hailstorms, because it's possible to live here sustainably without wreaking havoc with the local ecosystem and depleting non-renewable resources.

If others don't want to deal with such things, then they need to learn how to live sustainably within the limits of their OWN ecosystems, and not look to messing up MY ecosystem because of their own bad choices.

sw

[mondo joe]

52. You'd better tell your tourism boards. NT

[LittleClarkie]

61. Wave bye bye to your tourism industry. Meanwhile, we're still at drought levels

and what would be the point of giving to the point at which we would need water from someone else?

I'd just rather not give to Los Vegas is all. Idiotic fountains in the fucking desert. Didn't they practically drain the Colorado River. People down river no only see a trickle where there used to be an actual river.

[JVS]

70. Fine!

[knitter4democracy]

88. I'm all for that, thanks.

We have national parks, beaches, and some jobs. We have enough pollution to clean up, too, so we're just fine. :)

The only reason I ever travel to California is to visit family. My parents both moved away from California in the 60s and came here to Michigan for a better life. They have it, and our branch of the family's doing just fine.

[Scout]

100. "polluting our states"

youse guys have done well enough at that all by yourselves....

fly into Phoenix and enjoy the smog layer as you descend into the valley!

National Parks belong to everyone ... you can keep your jobs and your sand. Michigan will keep our water.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

47. Nonsense.

The meltwater from the glaciers was gone long ago.

About 2% of the water in the Great Lakes is last years rainfall.

[scarletwoman]

54. And how much do you suppose is lost every year to evaporation and sustaining the water needs of the

local communities?

Lake Superior is at its lowest level since the early 20th century. The port of Duluth is already having problems getting ships in, because the water is so low they can't reach the docks anymore. Ships are having to carry smaller loads because the receding shorelines mean that they need to have shallower drafts. Wetlands around the lakeshore are drying up, which means less habitat for migrating birds. Certain fish species are crashing, with more projected to reach crisis points.

The crisis is global. You cannot solve it by borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. EVERYONE is going to have figure out how to live within their ecological means where they are. And if where they are living is ecologically unsustainable, they need to either move or figure out how to make do with they have.

sw

[AngryAmish]

89. In the 80s the problem was the water was too high

[Scout]

101. and what is the other 98% oh wise environmentalist? n/t

[LittleClarkie]

65. Okay if people from out of state swim in it? Or are they only allowed to look at it from a distance?

That would be a drag.

[scarletwoman]

72. You can swim in it, as long you promise not to pee in it. (nt)

[LittleClarkie]

74. That was NOT me.

Besides, I was only trying to help with the water level...cough...

[Kolesar]

75. Lake Superior exchanges its water in about 300 years, and Lake Erie in 3 years

Or so I recall from my environmental studies. I agree with your sentiment that we don't want to be careless with this resource.

[peace13]

48. Let's take Lake Erie for example.

It is October and the water level is low, low, low. If we start draining it to ship to other places there will be no water for cities that currently use the water. Also the marine industry would go down the tubes and further affect the already stressed economy here in Ohio. If we were to tap the water mid season the water here would rapidly become unusable for recreation, commercial fishing, and shipping. How about we use our brains for once and invent or perfect a form of desalination. How about we invent machines that use less water in homes. Lets start inventing and quit trying to take something that others depend on. It didn't work when we tried to steal the oil did it.

[depakid]

51. The thought of drinking water from Lake Erie

is not a pleasant concept- though I suppose it's better than none at all....

[amandabeech]

53. How about people relocating to an area with sufficient water.

I know its the old-fashioned way, but there's plenty of land to be redeveloped in all the Great Lakes States.

Somebody up thread forgot to mention Pennsylvania as a Great Lakes State. Its coast is small and consists pretty much of Erie, PA. That place is struggling and a few jobs that require water would be a blessing.

[peace13]

55. What a novel concept.

There is so much work to do to get our country in order. The damage that has been done over the past seven years is astounding. Just righting the wrongs would be a full time job for many people. Making each home self sustaining would be a good start. Creating purification systems, and initiating conservation would solve many problems. Peace, Kim

[LittleClarkie]

64. Good water management as well

If a part of the country is still in trouble despite best efforts, and we can spare it, then fine, let us share.

I just don't want to be someone else's quick fix.

[CitizenLeft]

107. ...and thereby create JOBS

There ya go. For Ohio & Michigan, where it's desperately needed. And Illinois & Wisconsin & Indiana & New York too. :thumbsup:

[nonconformist]

56. They belong to the residents, absolutely

As a born and bred Michigander, I definitely have a strong opinion on this... and I'll wager a guess that most in the Great Lakes basin feel the same.

[CitizenLeft]

109. you got that right.

Ohio here... hey neighbor.

[SoCalDem]

57. No more than the snow at Aspen or the oil under Texas ..

While we are technically the "United" state of America, I have never seen much real sharing of any kind that would amount to much.. Other than Alaska, where true natives receive an "oil check" or on some Indian Reservations where they receive a shar of the tribal income, we all pretty much get...bupkis as "our" share of America :(

This is why I always ask the question.. What good is citizenship? What's in it for us? Do we have national health care..cheap/free education (post high school?)...are we guaranteed a roof over our heads and a meal in our bellies?

How 'bout elder care? or pensions?

what exactly DOES our citizenship get for all of us? we have the right to pay taxes or go to jail.. we have the right to travel (if we can afford it), to foreign countries where they will sneer at us when they find out we are Americans..

etc etc

[LittleClarkie]

60. Yes but I have no problem sharing depending on need. However, Las Vegas can go to hell, for instance

They're not going to fill their useless fountains with Great Lakes water if I can help it.

But it is the Great Lakes resource, but I would see no problem with sharing if another state wants to swap one of their resources for ours.

Or if another part of the country is in dire need, then fine, let us share. But if the problem is that another part of the country doesn't know how to manage their water properly, I'd rather they didn't use the Great Lakes as an easy fix.

[1932]

62. Does Nevada's mineral wealth belong to all Americans? If the Great Lakes could get some of that

wealth, I'm sure they'd be willing to share the water wealth.

[shadowknows69]

63. Other: Yeah, native americans

the rest of us are squatters.

[MiniMe]

68. They belong to Canada too

[porphyrian]

73. Wrong question.

I think we should be asking if this is really the best plan to resolve the drought and why. Who benefits from this, who gets hurt by it and what are the long term plans in case significant rainfall doesn't happen for months or even years more?

[Kolesar]

77. The treaty would allow "high value added" diversions like bottled water

...in containers up to 7 gallons to be packaged and diverted from the tributaries of the Great Lakes basin.

I rather liked that idea. However, it may already be obsolete in the context that those ten ounce bottles of water have a bad environmental image. It is such a waste of plastic to hold ten ounces. For that matter, it is a waste of resources to ship those ten ounce bottles around the country. We solved the public health issue of clean water in the 19th century--just go have a drink from the tap.

That leaves the Great Lakes states and provinces with selling water cooler sized containers. There is some market for that.

What is out of bounds is for a city like Akron to use its water from the Lake Erie watershed and hence divert the city's treated effluent into a tributary of the Ohio River. That would be a net loss from the Great Lakes watershed.

[amandabeech]

125. Too many 7-gallon containers shipped to the Southeast and Southwest

could end up doing as much damage to the ecosystem as a diversion from a tributary.

You could load them for backhaul on lots of trucks and rail cars. That might end up being a serious loss.

Why not redevelop the cities that many people left because the plants went south? Surely, there are industries that need water for their processes, or think that they could get better employees if those employees had an adequate amount of water for their personal use.

[Beerboy]

78. I voted Other;

the rest of the world is fast running out of fresh potable water, and the U.S. is hogging 1/6 of the world supply.
The U.S. should at least make a PR move to pretend to help people who are actually suffering, for once, instead of always hogging everything for themselves. Americans are the greediest pigs, hoarding everything and never sharing.

[sniffa]

79. yeah, fuck canada

they're not even a reaL country anyway.

[H2O Man]

80. Other.

The lakes are living things. They belong to themselves.

Those people who live near the lakes are welcome to use them respectfully. Tourists can enjoy them, and even take family vacation photos on their shores.

[SmokingJacket]

81. People should move to where the water is, not move the water. nt

[Forkboy]

82. I've had a line from a song in my head since yesterday that fits..

"As the world's populations exploding - Wars for water, not oil!"

[flvegan]

83. A good number of folks around here need a course on sovereign navigable waterways

Just sayin'

[NeedleCast]

84. I'm starting to think that those who live around the lakes

view the rest of the country as some barren, waterless wasteland.

[knitter4democracy]

90. It just looks that way to us.

:hi:

In Michigan, you can't go five miles in any direction from any point without hitting a water source. Most of our state perks pretty high, too (can hit water in a foot or so). When we travel, so many other places look so brown and don't have any lakes or streams nearby. Makes us nervous. ;)

[gollygee]

94. Just waterless

We don't have a lot of sun, some other areas of the country don't have a lot of water. All areas of the country have positive and negative aspects. Ours negative is that our weather isn't great - it gets cold a lot, we don't have a ton of sun, and it rains and snows a lot. The southwest's is that it doesn't have much water.

[Zookeeper]

111. I'm starting to think that people who live out West....

think that the Great Lakes region is nothing but a cold place with limitless water resources they can tap.

People live here. We have shipping and industry (and jobs) that depend on use of the Great Lakes. We have a neighboring country who also "owns" these lakes and depends on them. Our lakes are a beautiful and fragile resource, not a well.

I'm really shocked and dismayed by how little even DUers seem to know about different regions of the U.S. Maybe some cross-country road trips are in order. (I remember my San Francisco co-workers being shocked that I was moving to Minnesota, in part because they believed that there was snow on the ground year-round!)

[MichiganVote]

129. You're kidding us right? No water wars or lawsuits in the west...sure...

[ozone_man]

87. They "belong" to the Earth.

I think the Great Lakes level are already being threatened without adding to the drain. Keep resource use local whenever possible. The solution here is to discourage any more development in the SW states and provide incentives to move to where the water is. Support local economies over global economies.

Support zero or negative population growth. Fund renewable energy to reduce climate change which causes redistribution of rainfall.

Also, if there is a significant reduction in St. Lawrence Riverflow, I think that jeopardizes the salt/heat pump between Atlantic and Pacific, which could cause an ice age in Europe.

[gollygee]

92. They don't belong to anybody

they just are. Just like sunlight doesn't "belong" to California. Water doesn't "belong" to the Great Lakes region, it just happens to be here.

And the Great Lakes are not just part of the US.

[Dinger]

97. I Sure As Hell Don't Want Some repukes From Drought States Coming Up Here,

and turning my state "red" with their politics, and making the same thing happen here. They'll keep voting they way they do, which results in environmental devastation, which could lead to more drought here. Besides that, well, never mind, I'm probably gonna get it now.

[LanternWaste]

105. I think North Americans are stewards, but not owners of the lakes. n/t

I think North Americans are stewards, but not owners of the lakes.

[amandabeech]

126. Morally and environmentally, the Lakes states and provinces are stewards.

That's a very nice way of thinking about it and acting on it.

However, legally, the Lakes belong to the U.S. and Canada, and with respect to specific laws, to the states and provinces bordering them.

[Lorien]

112. "Ownership" is an uncomfortable idea in regards to nature

"natural resources" is a term coined to turn nature into a material commodity with no intrinsic worth. The "residents" of the Great Lakes basin include non human species as well. We humans should act as thoughtful stewards of nature and not strictly as consumers of nature.

[Zookeeper]

113. "Inch by Inch, Great Lakes Shrink and Cargo Carriers...

Face Losses."

From the October 22, 2007 NY Times:

Water levels in the Great Lakes are falling; Lake Ontario, for example, is about seven inches below where it was a year ago. And for every inch of water that the lakes lose, the ships that ferry bulk materials across them must lighten their loads by 270 tons — or 540,000 pounds — or risk running aground, according to the Lake Carriers’ Association, a trade group for United States-flag cargo companies.

“Because it’s mostly raw materials we’re talking about, the average consumer may see an increase in pennies in the price they pay for, say, a new car or washing machine,” Dr. Stewart said. For major manufacturers or firms managing big projects, however, the increase in transportation costs “is much more significant,” he said.

The port of Oswego receives scraps of aluminum from Canada, which are rolled into sheets at a local plant and sent to car manufacturers; soy beans for a bio-diesel plant in nearby Fulton; and parts for windmills that are used to generate power on a farm south of Canandaigua Lake, near Rochester, said L. Michael Treadwell, director of Operation Oswego County, a nonprofit economic development agency. The windmill parts arrive from Brazil and Indonesia, in ships that enter Lake Ontario through the St. Lawrence Seaway, which connects the lake to the Atlantic Ocean. The port also handles soy beans grown in central New York and sent to the Middle East, and it receives potash, a mineral used in fertilizer, and road salt, which are distributed by truck and rail to companies across the Eastern United States.

The picture is just as serious in the upper Great Lakes and is particularly grave in Lake Superior, where water levels have hovered below average since 1998 and, based on provisional data, set record lows in August and September. It is the longest stretch of below-average readings at Lake Superior since the Corps of Engineers started tracking the Great Lakes’ levels in 1918.

The Great Lakes region is home to about 70 percent of the steel industry in North America and about half of the heavy manufacturing in the United States, Mr. Weakley said.
------

Much of the economy in this region, depends on the Great Lakes. The Lakes aren't limitless bodies of water just sitting unused waiting to be tapped by desert regions so they can continue watering lawns and golf courses.

[bridgit]

117. no...

[European Socialist]

119. If someone wants our water, they have to take the month of March..

as a package deal.

[truebrit71]

121. ...no...they have to take January - March...

..I live in Chicago...they can HAVE those months...

[amandabeech]

127. If they throw in November, I might think about it.

I love those ice rain/snow combos!

[Odin2005]

122. Maybe the SW states would quit wasting water on lawns and golf courses...

Before they try to take our water. If there is not enough water for people there people will just have to move where there is water. I have little sympathy towards fools that think they can move to the desert and not learn how to conserve water.

[DFW]

123. Last I heard

Canada does not consider people who wade in to the Great Lakes on their side to
have suddenly to have crossed illegally into American territory.............