Ron Paul

[porkrind]

If you go to Digg or other popular discussion web sites, you hear a lot about the libertarian republican congressman Ron Paul and his presidential bid.

Unlike most all republicans, I think Ron Paul has real integrity and is not in the back pocket of corporations. My real concern with Ron Paul's libertarian goals, is what are we left with once he accomplishes them? Will we have a society at all, or just a jungle?

Once the federal government is reduced in size and power, who will regulate and stand up to big business? What's to prevent another age of Robber Barons? What keeps big business from polluting the ecology and poisoning us? What force is there to promote a middle class and prevent economic stratification? Who stands up for the weak?

I think this libertarian ideology is very seductive, especially to right-wingers who are fed up with the current neocon criminal slime and long for something more honest and real, but to me it just seems like Reagan's "Morning in America" warmed over. I think this libertarian vision is unrealistic and would lead to an unregulated jungle in which big money is king.

[MADem]

1. That man has some batshit crazy ideas. The wingnuts might just worry less

about the "It's MY Money" whining that they do when the road in front of their house crumbles, and some shady fuck comes to the door looking for money to fix it, or their kid's school falls down, and there's no one save the parents to fix it...they might start to realize that government, properly and judiciously run, does provide economies of scale...

[porkrind]

5. Yes

As Chomsky says, these people are afraid of the idea that government might actually be for, of, and by the people. That government might help people. Instead, it's demonized because it's the one power strong enough to stand in the way of corporations.

[Droopy]

2. Heh

"I think this libertarian vision is unrealistic and would lead to an unregulated jungle in which big money is king."

We've been there all along. The concessions that the common people have gotten from politicians have only been gained because they were thought to be good for business. You don't make any money when your work force is out on strike.

[Dewlso]

3. He's a used sports car with a new paint job

He looks flashy and fast but in reality there are alot of problems you won't be able to see unless you drive it. The state our country is in because of the rule of the bush/repugnant regime, we don't have the time to take a test drive.

[The Traveler]

4. Regulation

is merely an implementation of a check and balance ... the means by which government checks and balances the power of private financial interests. Libertarians attribute to the free market many of the characteristics of a god ... omniscience, omnipotence, and perfect equity, and claim no regulation is necessary. This is nonsense, of course. A colossal example is given by the thirty year effort to bring the topic of human triggered climate change to the table. Had the market started producing solutions to human environmental impact (e.g. global warming) thrity years ago, we might be forgiven for thinking otherwise. But it did not, and though many companies are now frantically shifting to a "green stance", it is only because they sense a catastrophe awaits them just down the road a ways. As long as the consequences were not imminent, there was no motivation for the market to respond.

This, of course, is why it is so important to conservatives and libertarians that global warming be denied. If the operation of the market has wrought these changes in planetary conditions, then it is the case that the market has failed spectacularly to address real demands and needs. It is a problem that strikes at their philosophical foundations.

[BurningDog]

6. The popularity of Ron Paul shows the lack of quality of the other candidates.

The popularity of Ron Paul here should say something about the quality of the Democratic front runners also.

He is a bastion for people that have lost faith in the system. A pissed off, straight talking, old codger without a bit of charisma or subtlety seems like a breath of fresh air.

[MADem]

26. No, it says more about the paucity of time spent researching the candidates by a very small but

vocal percentage here. Virtually everytime I see the guy's name mentioned here, someone (and usually not me) notes that he's a batshit crazy racist, or what have you...

A lot of people have a few charming elements, or can come up with a line or two that sounds good. The analogy of an old sports car with a new paint job, made upthread, is very apt--a few people are charmed by that surface veneer, and don't bother to dig deeper to see what the guy is really all about. Being against the war is no longer enough--hell, only idiots continue to support this war.

[Bluebear]

7. Ron Paul, racist.

Yuck.

[TimBean]

8. how so?

[Bluebear]

9. "If you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they

are. Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the `criminal justice system,' I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal," Paul said. Paul also wrote that although "we are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, it is hardly irrational. Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers."

http://www.floppingaces.net/2007/05/20/ron-paul-his-racial-views/

[TimBean]

10. Those quotes are 20 years old

they are still inexusable, of course.
And some more recent quotes to put things in perspective

'I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy'
- Joe Biden

“We cannot build enough prisons to solve this problem. And the idea that we can keep incarcerating and keep incarcerating — pretty soon we’re not going to have a young African-American male population in America. They’re all going to be in prison or dead. One of the two.”
-John Edwards

again, other racist quotes are no excuse for what Ron Paul had written 20 years ago, but to single out Ron Paul as the racist candidate is unfair.

[Bluebear]

12. Well, this is Democratic Underground. I have no interest in touting Paul's campaign. nt

[TimBean]

35. you might have an interest in America

if the President is a "D" or "R" or "I" or "Q" doesn't matter big picture does it.

[Heidi]

19. He's a Republican candidate. Do you really think DU is the place to defend him? (nt)

[MADem]

28. What's the context of that Edwards quote? And HOW is it racist?

It doesn't sound like he's in FAVOR of incarceration, there. It sounds like he OBJECTS to it. STRONGLY.

It is a fact--a disgraceful, national fact-- that African American males are incarcerated in ABSURD numbers in this nation--and saying so isn't racist. It's fact.

More African American males attend the "College of the Iron Bars" than they do universities around the country. That IS a problem.

[Ikonoklast]

33. Fine. Then you can support your racist candidate.

But go somewhere else to do it.

[Mongrelkoi]

17. Sounds Racist to me in a very awkward and outright sort of way.

[glarius]

11. All I know is...for those of you who want universal health care...he's AGAINST IT.

I saw him in a video clip a while back saying..."the market place was the way to go to bring health care to the people." ...and "universal health care is just socialism."..(Not an exact quote, but words to that effect.)

[Droopy]

14. Ron Paul doesn't have a chance anyway

He's probably polling at about the same level as Kucinich, which is "snowball's chance in hell."

[Sneaky Sailor]

21. Ron Paul is the Republican Kucinich

Just like Brownback was the Republican Richardson (Two second tier not terribly loud candidates)

Paul and Kucinich are the two VERY loud no money fringe candidates at the cliffs edge of their party.

[mmonk]

13. Many rightwingers are libertarian.

That's their beef with shrub, not the crimes. Ron Paul's beef however is the crimes. We democrats have a constitutionalist of sorts. Chris Dodd. We don't need to cross the aisle.

[cali]

15. I think David Duke has real integrity

and is not in the pockets of the corporations.

[Perry Logan]

16. Texas is a state ruled by libertarian/conservative ideology. Result: worst schools in the world...

...worst justice system, worst health care, worst social safety net, worst prison system, etc., etc.

Ron Paul is strictly for alienated white guys. A libertarian posing as a Republican is not exactly what America needs right now.

[Heidi]

18. If he has "real integrity," why hasn't he repudiated Stormfront's endorsement of him?

I'm not going to link to that groups youtube endorsement of Ron Paul, but news of it is all over the internet if you care to search for yourself. Why hasn't Ron "man of integrity" Paul repudiated this endorsement which by now is common knowledge?

[Vinca]

20. I guess it depends on how big your bank account is whether or not

you like Ron Paul. He wants to get rid of social security, Medicare and every other "socialist" program. At least he's honest about being an "every man for himself" kind of guy, unlike the rest of the 'pukes who want to make you believe they give a shit about poor people.

[Strelnikov_]

22. A mess. The jungle. Nothing. Nothing.

The 'stopped clock is right twice a day' candidate.

[Marrah_G]

23. GAH....this is not FR....go there an campaign for your asshat of a RW nutjob.

[Sneaky Sailor]

24. Yes we can only campaign for Left-Wing nutjobs :) n/t

[Marrah_G]

25. Absolutely! And then only the ones that aren't running against a Dem

But not "just" the LW nutjobs....also the mainstream Liberal Dems, ect. Some folks hate the DU rules. I like them.

:hi:

[MADem]

29. That's not true. But the DU rules can tell you what's 'on' and 'not on' here.

They're easy to read. Click the link at the bottom of the page.

[KharmaTrain]

27. I Met Ron Paul In 1988

I interviewed him when he was running as the Libertarian presidential candidate. I'm not surprised by his popularity or, should I say, populism, that is driving his support.

He's a very nice man and engaging speaker. He's one of the few that you can ask a question and he'll give you a short, straight answer. Now, what the substance of those answer is another matter, but at least he knew how to keep it short and simple. It's a great skill and works well in the libertarian setting as it only addresses the problems and never the cure.

At the time I questioned him about how an independent could work with entrenched, and most probably pissed, political parties. How could he enact the plans he had with almost no support by either party...thus a Leglislative stacked against him. He hinted that he would just "order" things done...similar to our current signing statements and "find ways" to make the parties work with him. Again, short answers...even shorter on details.

Yes, Libertarian ideology is attracting people. I saw it happening here in Illinois in the past couple elections as the state Repugnican party has become a laughing stock and the party has done well with getting both exposure and converts...call them "lapse" Repugnicans.

I still stick with my prediction that Paul is using the GOOP primaries for the exposure and its money making opportunities and will bolt to either the Libertarian or "Reform" party in the general election.

[Strelnikov_]

30. "bolt to either the Libertarian or "Reform" party in the GE"

That would be great news, an '08 version of Perot, split the libertarian wing from the Reich.

As I have commented before, here in Iowa, I am seeing Paul signs in quantity equal to all other Reich candidates combined.

[KharmaTrain]

34. He's Really Organized

I know that's what matters in Iowa...good organizations can make lesser candidates more viable and with a wide open field it's been a goldmine for Paul. There's a certain segment of "populists" out there and he speaks to them from the right like Kucinich speaks from the left. Both have devoted followers who "spread the word" that is an attempt to resonate with the discontent in a party. The difference is that Kucinich...his populism is an alternative among many alternatives...any Democrat elected will be a radical change from booosh. In the GOOP, the dicontented have fewer alternatives...especially as the candidates continue to pander to the pro-war and religious crowd...that's alienating far more on the GOOP side than with Democrats.

I've seen this rupture happening for a while...the same conditions that helped Perot become credible in '92. The advantage Perot had is that Poppy was running for re-election, so he could zero in a lot earlier than Paul can in '08...and he can't show his hand until a candidate emerges...sometime in late February. In the meantime he can get the major media exposure that has helped him raise a hell of a lot more money than he ever could as a Libertarian and could enhance his coffers with cash once the primaries are decided. This guy is smart and looks like he knows how to play the game...much to the chagrin of the party establishment, the confusion of the disenfranchised and the amusmement of the rest of us.

Cheers...

[helderheid]

31. I totally agree with him on some things and totally disagree with others. He wants to reverse Roe V

Wade. Nuh-uh.

[SergeyDovlatov]

32. To accomplish his "libertarian" goals he needs libertarian congress

I don't think any of his proposals can get any traction in Congress

Realistically, the only thing he could accomplish are: bring the troops home, and use saved money to cut the debt, stop raiding trust funds and add money into social security and medicare.