The whole Larry Craig thing has set gays back so far

[dsc]

I watched the whole interview and have to admit. It is worse than I thought. Time and again we heard "life style", "known code signals", "forgive me for asking this", etc. Is this what mainstream TV anchors think of me? Is this what typical straights think of me? I wouldn't let people who did this stuff in my house. Who would let me teach their kids? I am both shocked and outraged. Not at Craig's hypocrisy, which apparently is boundless, but at the whole "disgust" factor.

[Mend]

1. I think between Vitter and Craig it has set all men back...what's with these

emotionless sexual encounters with strangers?

[RaleighNCDUer]

2. Come again?

You are disgusted at the anchors' disgust at what you find disgusting?

I'm not tracking.

[dsc]

4. He continually equated being gay with this behavior

and the main question he asked forgiveness for was "are you a bisexual".

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. Thanks. I get what you're saying.

I never watch MSM news, so didn't know how they were spinning this. They were, I gather, making the implication that all gays are like this sad, repressed, confused and twisted person.

[dsc]

17. bingo

[MadMaddie]

3. Fuck the MSM they are responsible for perpetuating the

stereotypes and pushing the religious right crap down American TV tubes.

Larry Craig should have been booted out of DC for lying and getting arrested. Instead it's just another case of these Neocons believing they are above the law.

[Rex]

5. You have to understand, the M$M lives in a bubble that cannot be

popped. They try and act like 'normal' is what THEY say it is and let me tell you - it is impossible for the media to admit that people are, gasp, different! Everyone is supposed to be and act a certain way, according to the media, look and think a certain way. Whenever things get outside the 'norm' for the M$M, they act as if THEY are ashamed to ask questions normal people ask everyday.

In otherwords, they are all full of shit and fakers.

[liberalmuse]

6. It's insulting to gays to call Larry Craig "gay".

He's not gay. He's a very sexually oppressed, self-loathing sexual deviant who trolled restrooms for sex. None of my gay friends do that shit. While some of my friends might be a bit promiscuous, they can find sex the way most heterosexuals do. Self-loathing perverts feel they need to secretively crouch, waiting in some dirty stall to make their subversive moves. Maybe that's how they get off or whatever. I lived in Utah long enough to know how that crap is played.

[DesertFlower]

10. i agree. it's the same with my friends. nt

[JackBeck]

7. We watched it too.

And kept calling Lauer a "fucking tool".

Who the fuck uses "gay lifestyle" anymore except the theosexuals?

And Lauer's persistent categorizing of this behavior as gay sex, when the overwhelming mega-majority of our community do not participate in these sexual hook-ups.

[dsc]

9. It was simply amazing

Some of my coworkers are just finding out now that I am gay and this crap is in the news. Talk about an ick factor.

[JackBeck]

11. If you get any shade at work

Something to keep in perspective is reminding them that you are not like that, nor are almost all gay people. And for the most part, the only people trolling bathrooms for same-sex encounters are either closeted or suffering from internalized homophobia.

[dsc]

12. Obviously I don't expect them literally to equate it

or at least I hope they know me well enough not to do that, but subconsciously who knows. In any case this whole thing is just plain a mess.

[MrMickeysMom]

13. I know this sounds naive, but could you take this opportunity to inform them..

.. about what it means to be a human being? Maybe too uncomfortable for some, but on the other hand, it would be an opportunity to see there are no differences when looking at HUMANITY, versus sexual preferences?

Yeah, I'm probably naive...

[BootinUp]

8. Well

I'll take a shot at this a straight guy. I think it is bad, but it is ignorance you know. In other words, there is always an opportunity to correct but it might take more personal contact between people who don't know much about the other. This probably isn't helping. Gay people have been trod on for ever, and they want some respect and fairness. I think you have to keep a perspective that looks for signs of things changing for the better and not get too caught up in the latest scandal. It will pass and then more serious discussion is possible.

[Harper_is_Bush]

14. You wouldn't let people who did this into your house, and yet you're shocked and outraged at the

"disgust" factor.

Those two things don't seem to add up.

EDIT: I disagree about your belief that it's set gays back. It's an opportunity to talk more and educate.

[dsc]

15. He appeared more disgusted by the question of are you a bisexual

than did you have sex in bathrooms. He constantly equated being gay with trolling bathrooms for sex, hitting on unwilling frat boys for sex, etc.

[Harper_is_Bush]

23. Well, that's just him. I don't think what he himself has to say will set gays back at all.

I don't believe the world will suddenly view all gays as being bathroom trollers because of this.

And like I said, when it comes up in the context of speaking about gays it provides the opportunity to inform, so maybe it's not all that bad.

[Stinky The Clown]

18. Brace yourself for a shitstorm, my friend.

This whole thing has been played in a way that is unfriendly to gays. I would expect that, even here in Liberaland, you're going to see things said that ought not be said. The MSM spin has made it fair game for the moment. We all have to collectively work to counteract it.

Being straight, I fear I can say the wrong thing, too. I don't want to, but I sure might. If I can do it, I can only imagine what someone who doesn't really care might do with it.

[Bluebear]

19. Please, I heard about lifestyle and code signals and "what about the children" right here at DU

Let alone mainstream TV anchors.

[JackBeck]

21. Lauer must have picked-up those catch phrases

while putting around the back Nine with Papi Bush.

[Behind the Aegis]

24. Disgusting, isn't it?

I feel there are more than a handful of posters who are "in denial," and it t'ain't about being gay! It is one thing to see homophobic crap on conservative sites, but when self-professed liberals and progressives sound like Fred Phelps without his honest, in-your-face hate, it is just sad.

[Bluebear]

43. Be sure to look downthread. We are to blame for our own stereotypes.

God but this topic brings out the most dreadful posts.

[UTUSN]

20. Why? He don't represent Gays. What's the problem?!1 n/t

[JackBeck]

22. The problem is with Matt Lauer.

And the way he catapults right-wing talking points.

[UTUSN]

25. Well, that's true, but thank Zeus he got "vast rightwing conspiracy" out there n/t

[JackBeck]

28. Care to elaborate?

[tyedyeto]

26. I did not watch but am thinking.....

Why would anyone think that I'm (Craig/Vitter, etc) excused because I'm a 'Moral Repug'. Is that what the interview was all about?

Not in my book or any other sane person.

[Atman]

27. Man, if Lauer thinks the "gay lifestyle" is strange, he should check out the heteros!

Fucking a, you want to see weird? Hetero swingers are among the strangest lot out there, by comparison. I'm not judging either group, to each his/her/their own, as far as I'm concerned. But it is absolute hypocrisy to try to equate this sort of "deviant" behavior with being gay. When you go into the office tomorrow, check out your secretary, the bean counter, the mail room clerk, even your boss. Odds are, one member of this demographic (the demo being "otherwise thought to be normal heterosexuals") is taking off for the weekend and doing group gropes with the neighbors, or treating hubby to a little lipstick lesbian photo op. People are fucking weird, but we're all great at pretending to be "normal" once we get back to the office on Monday morning.

You know who you are. Some of you reading this right now know it. You've already got plans for a little wine and cheese and swap party this weekend. It's part of the reason we like to point to gays as being the freaks...it's like "pay no attention to the wife behind behind the curtain, doing the other wife...and her husband."

I've come to know a few of these people, who've tried to get my wife and I to join in. The most otherwise "normal" people you'd ever want to meet. So again, go to your workplace tomorrow and look around...check 'em all out. And ask yourself...who is going to be doing the group session this weekend? SOMEONE will be. But it's more convenient to blame "deviance" on those gays.

.

[TheUniverse]

29. I really hope Larry Craig Doesn't resign.

I could care less what hand signals Senators make in the toilet. But at the same time, I wish he would quick being a hypocritical bastard on gay issues. Your right, the fact that our country makes such a big deal over this shows our country still needs to make progress. We care more about if a Senator is gay, than a real scandal. I think the worst offender is John McCain. He was out in the media almost immediately asking for Larry Craig to resign. Remember the Keating 5 McCain? Thats right, thats a real scandel.

[seriousstan]

30. No they do not think that of you. They think that of deviants that have turned public restrooms

into blowjob booths. SORRY TO GET CRUDE. The fact is that I have been repulsed when I take my children into parks and public bathrooms. This is not limited to the US. I have seen this in many countries, including Europe. It has been the butt of jokes in many movies. Stereotypes don't make themselves.

Mainstream media will run anything for ratings. The more salacious the better. What I am talking about is public perception. Just like Catholic priests are pedophiles, gays cruise bathrooms.

[Bluebear]

32. Yes, all these public blowjob booths.I can't urinate anymore without some sex act occuring nearby!

:eyes:

[whoneedstickets]

34. Are you defending public sex in bathrooms?

Or are you just tying to belittle the poster?

[Bluebear]

35. I maintain that all this supposed public sex happening everywhere is grossly exaggerated.

What kind of places is he going into all the time that he is so embarrassed for his children, both here and abroad? Why don't I see these things happening, ever?

edit, spelling

[whoneedstickets]

36. I spent a lot of time at a large public U...

..many stalls in the library had holes drilled between them and many were covered with solicitous graffiti. I only think I walked in on anything once.

Clearly it goes on. I frankly think it is inappropriate behavior as would any sex in a public place. Surely you agree with that.

[Bluebear]

37. Why are children going into public U bathrooms?

Where else are all these sex scenes taking place that the children are witnessing? After all, as the poster said, stereotypes don't make themselves up so gays must be getting it on in thousands of bathrooms worldwide.

[whoneedstickets]

38. Who mentioned children?

I said nothing about children. I said I was appalled at sex taking place in public bathrooms. YOU seem to have a problem condemning this behavior.

I did not address the stereotyping question.

On edit:

It would seem bathrooms in airports are popular as this one had a reputation on some websites I'm told.

Are you denying it occurs? Do you condone it?

[Bluebear]

39. "I have been repulsed when I take my children into parks and public bathrooms."

That opened this thread. I asked where this father was taking his children that he is seeing sex acts taking place left and right.

[whoneedstickets]

40. You still haven't answered my question..

..re: the appropriateness of sex in public spaces? It seems to occur. The regularity of it could be questioned. I think its inappropriate. Do you?

[Bluebear]

42. I don't have to 'condemn' shit to you. Again, I think it's exaggerated, AND on purpose.

The poor children, the gay perverts, give me a break. I don't have to listen to it at DU.

[whoneedstickets]

44. Clearly you think this is acceptable behavior...

only that kind of a position would generate such an indignant response to a simple question. You sure seem to be able to dish out the smarmy posts but seem reluctant to step up and state your opposition to what most would think unseemly (sex in public).

[Bluebear]

45. Yes, clearly. It's clear that I think sex in public is clearly grand if that was unclear.

Everyone should participate, and if not, should be forced to watch it, especially the children. Happy?

[whoneedstickets]

46. No I would have prefered your reasoned explanation..

..clearly things do go on in some public restrooms. Yes, the likelihood of you, me or anyone's children witnessing these acts is very low. But it is NOT zero. So why should it be tolerated. I wouldn't tolerate straight (probably a paid-for) encounters in public and would support efforts to identify and arrest people engaging in or seeking the same, why should I tolerate a gay encounter?

The vast majority of heterosexuals and homosexuals wouldn't think of having sex in a bathroom, or in a public place. A few deviants might. Most would prefer to seek partners in bars, clubs, parties etc.

I have no problem condemning public sex period. Take it someplace private.

[Bluebear]

47. Look friend, read the exchange again. You are the one who accused me of championing public sex...

...when all I did was mention to the first poster that "the likelihood of you, me or anyone's children witnessing these acts is very low." So we agree on that and also that public sex is in appropriate, I have no idea what set you off on me.

One caveat though, "identify and arrest people engaging in or seeking the same" - - - it is a dangerous thing to open-endedly arrest people for "seeking", I'm not much for arresting people in the early stages of intent.

[whoneedstickets]

48. Thank you..

..unfortunately your original post did not include any message only a sarcastic subject line. Later, and in response to me you raised the likelihood point. I appreciate your clarification.

[Duncan Grant]

51. Bluebear is doing neither.

I take Bluebear's comment as a critique of anecdotal evidence. I don't give much credence to anecdotes from anonymous sources on an internet message board but others do -- and will.

Among the hysteria about bathrooms and disgusting behavior, how is it that a self-identified straight man like Larry Craig has come to exemplify gay male sexuality? It's going to take me awhile to parse that out. I find it much more appalling than public sex.

[Bluebear]

33. "Stereotypes don't make themselves." - Correct, it's always the victim's fault.

[Jamastiene]

50. Some people have ALL the goddamn luck.

I've never been offered a blow job in any public restroom ever. I'm pissed. I want my money back.

To the GLBT community: It's about time y'all started speaking up anytime I'm in the public restrooms. I want to know what I've been doing wrong to never be offered any. Well...I'm waiting.

As if I need to add this:
:sarcasm:


To the poster of this drivel:
I'd personally like a list of the public restrooms where you have seen this activity. If you won't do your damn job as a citizen, I will. I'll turn the list over to the police. If it's so commonplace and you have seen so much of it, how come you've never called the cops or done something about it?

Or would you rather just complain and bitch and broad brush all GLBT people? That's it. Isn't it? You'd rather blame us for everything that has ever gone wrong instead of doing your damn civic duty and calling the cops when you see illegal... that's right, I said it, illegal... activity.

Next time you see it, do your damn job as a citizen and call the fucking cops. Don't hold it all in just to come on a message board later and broad brush all GLBT people.

And do me a favor while you are at it: When you get to Hell, pretend you don't know me, Mrs. Persnickity.

[sniffa]

53. stereotypes come from somewhere

bLacks are criminaLs.
tan peopLe are either terrorists or iLLegaL aLiens.
gays have instaLLed gLory hoLes in every staLL around the worLd.
americans are fat.
straight peopLe are ugLy.
white peopLe have no rhythm.

[NMMNG]

55. Oh Jebus, not this sh*t again!

People are not having rampant sex in public bathrooms. It just isn't an epidemic--I don't give a crap what the MSM leads you to believe. The only thing you should be repulsed about when you take your children into public bathrooms is the serious lack of cleanliness. Those places are filthy!


And no, stereotypes don't make themselves. They're perpetuated by utter morons who don't know WTF they're talking about.

[jpgray]

31. I'm with Dan Savage on this. As a straight-identified person, he cannot represent the gay community

The only person his vacillations and behavior should impact is his own self. At most, he represents closeted gays who refuse to identify themselves as such, but I disagree with that as well.

[sandnsea]

41. Fucking in bathrooms?

Hey, you guys are the ones who kept equating bathroom sex to homosexuality - not straight people. We tried to separate the two, but nooooo, you knew better.

Welp, now maybe you see what some of us were desperately trying to do.

No, I don't want anybody who cruises bathrooms for sex teaching my children.

[Dark]

49. Honestly, I don't think anyone's listening to the repugs anymore.

So don't worry about it. People know he's gay, and nothing he says can refute that.

Instead, the more moderate repugs are leaving the party over this hypocrisy, and the authoritarian ones are going to hate gays because their leaders told them to.

I think, like Foley and Vitter and Haggard, it's just demoralized the republican base.

[taterguy]

52. Well the notion that anyone of any gender would wanna fuck that guy is rather repugnant

But I would hold an entire community responsible for the actions of a few

[Vinca]

54. To add insult to injury old Larry is going to keep voting against

gay and lesbian rights whenever he's given the chance.

[IndianaJones]

56. I have to disagree somewhat, although I share in your outrage. nt.

[joshcryer]

57. Craigs List "quick encounters" does more to create that stereotype than anything else.

[mondo joe]

58. I disagree. My impression is that this, like Haggard before him, sets back the closet

and pretending to be straight if you're not.

Maybe it's Pollyanna of me, but I do think that's the greater outcome.

[dsc]

59. I am not gonna lie

If I thought all gays were like that I would be vomitting up a storm at the thought of gays anywhere. I do hope in the end this works out but for now, yuck.