Sunni and Shiite Iraqis who aren't under US occupation seem to get along just fine

[NNN0LHI]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iWv49BLwKEw1f5Bbw4STxAccjK6AD8S8GJ4G0

Iraqi Refugees Shed Sectarian Bitterness
By OMAR SINAN – 2 days ago

DAMASCUS, Syria (AP) — A dozen Iraqi men — Sunnis and Shiites alike — sat around a table in a Damascus restaurant, singing, drinking and sharing a camaraderie all but impossible in the sectarian killing fields back home.

"We can certainly choose our religious beliefs. But we have to realize the inevitable — that eventually we have to share everything in order to live in peace," said Salam Mohammed, a 34-year-old Sunni from Saddam Hussein's hometown of Tikrit.

More than 2 million Iraqis have fled their homeland to escape Sunni-Shiite reprisal killings. snip

Iraqis have several explanations for the explosion of sectarian hatred back home. Some accuse the Americans of setting Iraq's communities against one another in a divide and rule strategy.

Others point to the role of al-Qaida in Iraq — whose suicide bombings targeted Shiite civilians — and the Shiite militias that took vengeance on Sunnis simply because of their sect.

"Even in Baghdad, it is the government and the militias who are behind these disputes," Adnan said. "We hear that there are many mixed Sunni-Shiite marriages back home."

Al-Dulaimi blamed the Americans and their allies in the Shiite-led government who have "fueled sectarian strife for their personal ambition." Last week, hundreds of Iraqi refugees marched through Damascus streets to protest a U.S. Senate resolution recommending Iraq be divided along regional sectarian lines.

"Being strangers in other countries has taught us to be more tolerant of one another," said Ammar Sameer, a 30-year-old Iraqi businessman living in Jordan. "We have to learn how to seal any crack that was created by the evil forces that came with the (American) occupation."

[NNN0LHI]

1. I have no evidence but who would be surprised that Chalabi has had his thugs doing car bombings?

I know I wouldn't be surprised.

Don

[riderinthestorm]

2. I believe that the Sunni/Shia feud has very longstanding roots

and there has been a lot of bloodshed on both sides for centuries. It may be true that right now, the Sunni and Shia Iraqi refugees outside of Iraq are united in their common hatred towards the Americans - that's understandable. But to just point to the Americans as THE single reason for the sectarian violence inside Iraq isn't accurate or even rational as these two groups have been killing each other for a long time before we arrived on the scene. We are a great excuse for the ramping up of sectarian violence at the moment, and this is certainly yet another legitimate criticism of our occupation but this sectarian division pre-dates the US occupation.

[neweurope]

3. But in Iraq there are both Sunni and Shia in a lot of tribes and

intermarriage is common, I've often read. The fighting between both has indeed only started with the US occupation.

I'll never forget those two incidents where British soldiers were found - dressed as Iraqis. I'm certain that they were stirring up trouble between Sunni and Shia.

----------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[riderinthestorm]

6. I have read those reports too, but the divisions existed under Saddam

and before. It's a big reason why we were so foolish in our evaluation that Iraq would suddenly be one big happy family if we only got rid of Saddam. The hostility towards the Kurds, the historic Iraqi Shia repression by the Iraqi Sunnis etc. etc. all of this was ignored by the post-war "planners" (cough).

There were/are real and ugly historic rifts in the region, regionally, tribally and geographically. We kicked this hornet's nest wide open with our occupation - I truly acknowledge that we are an enormous part of the problem now - but that hornet's nest had been buzzing for many, many centuries before we got there.

Those Iraqi refugees are now united in their hatred of the Americans but it's naive imho to ignore the realities of that region and their long and tortuous history before us. I just think stories like the OP want to paint a rosy picture that if we leave, everyone will just kiss and make up and the violence will stop.

It won't stop. It will get worse. Don't get me wrong, we must leave and leave immediately but I can't fool myself that feel-good stories like the OP mean that if we leave all will be well since they really do get along. Some really do get along, no doubt, but there will be/is a civil war.

[NNN0LHI]

5. You may want to read this?

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/40123/

Iraq's Sectarian Bloodshed 'Made in the USA'

By Erik Leaver and Raed Jarrar, AlterNet. Posted August 10, 2006.

As each day is greeted with news of Iraq's daily death toll, the media debates whether Iraq is embroiled in an all-out civil war. While conventional wisdom holds that the country is being cleaved apart by religious differences, this conflict actually stemmed from the U.S. government's political miscalculations.

Foreign politicians have a history of misguided analysis about the potential for civil war in Iraq. In 1920, British Prime Minister David Lloyd George warned of civil war if the British army withdrew from Iraq. The exact same thing is heard today in the United States. Ironically, the same Iraqis George wanted to protect from each other instead united in a revolution against the British occupation forces. With rising opposition within the Shi'ite ranks against the occupation, the United States could see a similar revolt in the coming months.

Iraqi Shia and Sunnis have lived in harmony for centuries. Historically, the two sects lived in the same areas, intermarried, worked together and didn't fight over religious beliefs. During the decade of U.S.-imposed sanctions, Iraq's generally secular society became far more religious. This transformation even affected the secular Baathist regime, which gave Islam a bigger role in schools and other aspects of everyday life. Still, there were no social conflicts based on religious differences in the country.

When the United States ousted Saddam Hussein in April 2003, crime spiked and full-scale looting erupted. But there were still no signs of sectarian clashes. That quickly changed, however, as the U.S. administration assumed control over Iraq, led by Paul Bremer.

[UGADUer]

9. That's quite untrue

Open sectarian warfare between Sunni and Shi'a is very uncommon, especially in Iraq where most families are intermarried Sunni, Shia, Kurd, Turkmen.

[redqueen]

4. Divide and conquer.

Who split the region up?

It still works...

[NNN0LHI]

7. kick

[UGADUer]

8. The Shi'a-Sunni divide was caused by economic catastrophe and government segregation

A couple of Iraqi union leaders talked to us about this in Atlanta a while back. Horrible ideas by the occupying authorities caused all this shit.